Skip to comments.Women-priest fakers allow Protestants [UCC] to define who Catholics are. There must be consequences.
Posted on 04/28/2013 8:56:28 AM PDT by markomalley
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As far as UCC goes, I don't tell them how to run their organization. Back the hell off of ours.
I love Fr Z
But didnt Jesus Himself,Ask a woman to preach the gospel “IE HE is Risen” to the disciples?
I was born a Protestant, lived as a Protestant and will die as a Protestant and I have never worried one moment that the Roman church wants an all male priesthood. I personally, and from what I understand scriptually, support an all male priesthood whether Catholic or Protestant.
They may be “protestant” in the sense that they are protesting the Roman Catholic Church, but they aren’t Protestants in the historic reformational sense of that word. Reformed Protestants have no more in common with the UCC and this group of faux-Catholics than we do with the Pope. I suspect we couldn’t agree on the day of the week.
UCC is not even remotely Christian, being further to the left than even ECUSA. BTW, Marty Haugen is UCC, so why is he in any Catholic Hymnal?
I presume *you* teach. (Writing stuff in FR is an aspect of that.) Does that make you a Catholic deacon, priest, or bishop?
I’m in complete agreement that Roman Catholics are entitled to define themselves on their own terms, so why the lashing out at “Protestants” when dealing with your own behaving disobediently?
It’s disingenuous and misleading. Why? Is there some fear that the secular world might figure out that there is actual disagreement in the ranks, as if a bunch of sedes fanning out onto internet forums to bellow about Vatican II isn’t already doing that?
Stop slinging mud at potential allies, is my suggestion.
Don't get me started.But the Catholics are confused about hymnody - what it is, what it's for, when to do it, how to do it, etc.
I think that the "spirit of Vatican II" created a space for Catholic dissidents to act out, and one of their favorite places to do it is with their heretical "hymns", like "Sing a New Church Into Being".
Catholic hymn-haters are reacting to this Delores Dufner/Marty Haugen/Dan Schutte garbage. Most of the Catholics in our parish take Isaac Watts as one of their own. Our hymnal, among the trio above, Negro spirituals, and Spanish jibber-jabber, has about twenty singable hymns.
I mean, how perverse is it to steal the melody of "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing" and turn it into a protest song??
My view is this: Maybe Mass should have hymns, maybe it shouldn't. Since the congregation doesn't sing anyway, it seems kinda pointless.
But if they DO have hymns, they should have real ones. 500 years of English hymnody has created quite a list to choose from.
“Obama’s Chechens have come home to roost”
Sorry. This looks like another Papist issue that FRoman Catholics try to blame on true Protestants. Need to quit blaming us and get your own house in order.
How many women did Christ ordain to the Priesthood?
Incorrect. It's an accurate definition, your thin skin notwithstanding.
1 prot·es·tant noun \ˈprä-təs-tənt, 2 is also prə-ˈtes-\
a: any of a group of German princes and cities presenting a defense of freedom of conscience against an edict of the Diet of Spires in 1529 intended to suppress the Lutheran movement
b: a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope and affirming the Reformation principles of justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers, and the primacy of the Bible as the only source of revealed truth; broadly: a Christian not of a Catholic or Eastern church
2: one who makes or enters a protest
Shouldn’t you be watching Seinfeld reruns?
I remember nothing in my Bible that says He made disciples priests either,can you show me chapter and verse?
Seems like he was pretty specific, ‘a protestant church’,’those protestants’, that Protestant parish, ‘the head of the denomination,’ the Protestants who host them’, Protestants who give these fakers aid .’
Can’t see why anyone would get upset if none of those apply, and I can’t see it applying to any Protestant Freepers. Oh wait, gotcha, a Catholic, no matter how conservative, said something about a bunch of liberal Protestant wackaddoos. What a monster.
... and this Roman Catholic woman acting in defiance of her own church falls under which of those three definitions? None of them.
The use of “thin skinned” as a negative description of those with which one agrees is disingenuous and misleading, too.
This woman and those who enabled her are not in any way Protestant. They are professing Roman Catholics who are disobeying the leadership of their church.
If you’d like to disassociate yourselves from them for this disobedience, I suggest doing so, rather than attempting to make them appear to be something they’re not.
They are protestants only in the broadest sense of that term. Indeed they are protesting your pope and defying the historic teaching of the Roman Catholics, but neither the UCC nor these nominal Catholics accept “Reformation principles of justification by faith alone,” which was the fulcrum on which the Reformation turned. I suspect they wouldn’t have the slightest undertanding of the historic Protestant understanding of justification. And it is that doctrine, more than any other, which unites Protestants.
Does anyone else see the irony in attacking a Protestant group (left wing though it is) for attempting to define Catholicism by attempting to define Protestantism in return?
Conservative Catholics and conservative Protestants stand shoulder to shoulder socially and morally. Articles like this serve no useful purpose than to divide the Body of Christ.
The UCC no more defines Protestantism than this splinter group defines the Roman Church.
Now that is a useful comment. I thought we were talking about transexual Roman Catholic nuns.
Now if you want to discuss the Latvian Orthodox church....
“How many women did Christ ordain to the Priesthood?”
All of them, and all the men too, by virtue of making us all a peculiar people and a holy priesthood through joining His body. But does that mean a woman should be ordained as an elder to teach in a church? The scripture clearly forbids it.
Indeed, you are correct, the New Covenant did away with the need for the old levitical priesthood as all born-again believers are priests, whether male or female.
Speaking to Christians in general, the apostle Peter wrote:
“You also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ... “
“But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.” I Peter 2:6, 9
In I Corinthians 14.34-35, St. Paul says that women should keep silent in church.
Now if you want to discuss the Latvian Orthodox church...
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I tried BUT due to ‘kavorka’ etc, they rejected me.
Today that could be deemed as ‘prejudiced’????
I'll come right out and say, female pastors or priests when imposed organizationally make me very uncomfortable to the point of outright opposition. I've only had one close exposure, and that was via the church funeral service for the father of an old friend. I've in the past strayed from my Christian upbringing and have associated with “alternative” religious sorts including Wiccans. That woman was. I know the tropes, the gestures, the general vibe.
Then again, I also know women with very successful lay ministries, who have led many souls to Christ. One of them ended up with a regular meeting that could I suppose be regarded as a church. This was not imposed, it was through acclamation and consent. There is a distinction between the two to me, and a strong one.
Roman Catholics determine their own priesthood however. They do not permit female priests, this woman was acting in defiance of her church.
Simple as that. What is done in response won't be nearly so simple and clear-cut though. Witness the impulse to blame outsiders while not distancing themselves from the actual problem. It's a peculiar impulse that I've seen many times under differing circumstances, and I can't claim to understand it at all.
They should take such action against priests who homosexually rape children.
Good question. How did this become a Protestant issue?
How many MEN did Jesus ordain into priesthood?
Find me one verse of Scripture that shows that Jesus ordained ANYONE into ANY priesthood.
Are you being sarcastic?
The women were witnesses, martyrs and that role has always been open to women.
Priesthood is derived from the 12 Apostles, period. Plenty of others are witnesses, testes, martyrs, disciples. Even the word “apostle” is sometimes used more widely in the NT.
But the Twelve chosen apostles were a distinct group. Only to them did Jesus give the authority to govern (bind and loose sins, accompanied by ordination in John’s Gospel—he breathed on them and conferred the Holy Spirit explicitly) and preach with apostolic authority.
An honest Protestant will recognize a distinct role for the 12, distinct from other disciples and witnesses. We are all witnesses, we are not all ordained priests. We are all baptismal priests. We are all ministers, witnesses, martyrs, testes, testifiers.
If you don’t accept Catholic and Orthodox teaching on the derivation of bishops and priests from the Twelve, fine. But then you don’t believe in priesthood. Fine.
Preaching with apostolic authority is not the same as giving a testimony or witnessing. Jesus authorized the Twelve to lead His Ecclesia. If you are a Protestant, you derive a general ministry from that. Fine.
But Catholics derive from that the specific episcopacy and priesthood.
At the time of the Reformation all the Protestant Reformers explicitly rejected the concept of priesthood as derived from the Twelve. (Anglicans retained it initially, rejected it in the 1550s, then tried to claim it back in later centuries; too late).
Those who rejected the idea of priesthood have nothing to say to what qualifies a person as a priest.
And should butt out.
Since you don’t like and don’t believe in priesthood, kindlly butt out of this discussion.
On this issue Protestants defined themselves knowingly and deliberately in the 16thc. All the Protestant Reformers rejected episcopacy, one of the few things they agreed on.
You made your bed, so lie in it.
You share with the UCC the rejection of ordained priesthood.
The idea that all protestantism is like the UCC is like saying all Catholics are social justice commies.
Asbestos is not imputed.
Another person that I won’t join in with at church. Already will not sing for someone who outed himself as a homosexual and has songs (they aren’t hymns) in the OCP book.
BTW, pray for Archbishop Alexander Sample, our new Archbishop here in Oregon — that he might dissolve OCP.
(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained." [JN 20:21-23]
Some of the worst and nastiest writing was the blanket use of the word Protestant to describe who you are angry at for this issue, just name the denomination, not almost all Christians on earth that aren’t Catholic as the villain in this little story.
The church this guy is annoyed at doesn’t even have a million members, his writing seems to be more of an attack on Christians in general in America, than an attack on the denomination that he is supposed to be angry at.
Priesthood is derived from the Holy Sacrifice of The Mass. Where the celebrant acts “in the persona of Christ” and that is why only unmarried males can be priests. The Eucharist is the center of all Catholic worship. It is the focal point of any Church. This is the great divide between Catholicism and every other brand of Christianity.
I suggest that when Catholics discuss the fake priests, they refer to them as “Imams”. Even refer to their organization as “Association of former Roman Catholic Women Imams.”
This actually works from several directions, if you think about it.
Is there anybody out there who think that the Catholic Church has the right to determine who shall be priests? God can determine anything. People can make up their own story, but in the end, God determines what happens. Protestants can also make up their own story and have been since Henry the Eighth. They have been thinking that they have a church when, in fact, they are keeping the wants of an inherent philanderer as if it were gospel. When will the people see that he was nothing but a seeker of earthly lust and nothing else? He was a slob who led a lot of people wrong.
I believe it's called 'shooting the messenger'.
I’ll consider myself duly shot, even though I agree with the Catholic Church’s position on female priests.
But you go right on shooting. I’ll do you a lot of good when you’re the only one left standing.
It is amazing how they slime all protestants, knowing their next post will be about how we should stand with them against leftist attackers.
The whole point should be for conservative Christians to bind together when we need each other’s support more than ever. This isn’t a doctrinal thing. My own evangelical church holds the same position on female pastors as the Catholic Church does on female priests.
Surely we can build on that?
You would think so.
Fr John doth protest too much. And he said it repeatedly about ten times in the article. Nobody cares what these idiots did in Louisville. No different than the nude women protesting in Belgium. Archbishop Andre-Joseph Leonard, remained calmly seated with eyes closed in prayer Tuesday as four topless women attacked him with shouts and curses and doused him with water.
Fr John should take note...
If you’re not going to post the text, I am not looking it up.