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Women-priest fakers allow Protestants [UCC] to define who Catholics are. There must be consequences.
What Does The Prayer Really Say ^ | 4/28/2013 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Posted on 04/28/2013 8:56:28 AM PDT by markomalley

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To: metmom

It’s imposssible to convince people of error when they “Believe” otherwise, and this regardless of the truth that’s clearly before them. Their inner pride will not let them and only when that is addressed, for what it is, they cannot see.

To admit these errors generally means similar to when a Muslim turns away from Islam because it’s wrong. Years of indoctrination, rites, rituals, and a sense of belonging to a group all come into conflict...and that would be too heartbreaking to face...easier to go with the statis quo. Imo.


101 posted on 04/28/2013 9:51:10 PM PDT by caww
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To: Salvation

It doesn’t matter what’s in his heart. The commandment is to not bow down to them. Outward actions can be easily determined as EVERYONE can see them. The command is to not bow down. The pope is bowing down.

Therefore he is breaking the second commandment.

The Catholic Bible is the only one who uses different words and I do realize that they’d need to to avoid looking like they’re doing what is patently obvious to anyone with a modicum of reading comprehension. Small wonder the Catholic church changed the wording. It’s less indicting.

Here’s a link to the verse where you can look it up in the Hebrew.
http://bible.cc/exodus/20-5.htm


102 posted on 04/28/2013 10:17:18 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Salvation

OK, burning candles to them.

I’ve seen that.


103 posted on 04/28/2013 10:18:52 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Salvation; CynicalBear

JPII was the *Mary, I’m all yours* pope, IIRC.

People can know what’s in his heart if he says it out loud or writes it down, now can’t they?

This is in the heart of at least one of your popes, and it’s idolatry, plain and simple.

Prayer of Pope Pius XII
In Honor of the Immaculate Conception

http://catholicism.about.com/od/tothevirginmary/qt/Honor_Immacula.htm

Prayer of Pope Pius XII
Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty, and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O Immaculate Mother of Jesus and our Mother, Mary, confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.

Though degraded by our faults and overwhelmed by infinite misery, we admire and praise the peerless richness of sublime gifts with which God has filled you, above every other mere creature, from the first moment of your conception until the day on which, after your assumption into heaven, He crowned you Queen of the Universe.

O crystal fountain of faith, bathe our minds with the eternal truths! O fragrant Lily of all holiness, captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume! O Conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin, which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell!

O well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cry which rises up from every heart. Bend tenderly over our aching wounds. Convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and oppressed, comfort the poor and humble, quench hatreds, sweeten harshness, safeguard the flower of purity in youth, protect the holy Church, make all men feel the attraction of Christian goodness. In your name, resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that they are brothers, and that the nations are members of one family, upon which may there shine forth the sun of a universal and sincere peace.

Receive, O most sweet Mother, our humble supplications, and above all obtain for us that, one day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which today is sung on earth around your altars: You are all-beautiful, O Mary! You are the glory, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people! Amen.


104 posted on 04/28/2013 10:25:05 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: caww
Years of indoctrination, rites, rituals, and a sense of belonging to a group all come into conflict...and that would be too heartbreaking to face...easier to go with the statis quo.

Easier until it drags them down into hell cause their pride wouldn't let them admit that they've been wrong all those years.

I've become convinced that a great deal of the anguish in hell, the torment, is not so much physical pain as mental and spiritual. Being consumed with regret at all the missed chances when they were told the truth and had an opportunity to turn and believe.

Well, they can't say they weren't warned.

105 posted on 04/28/2013 10:28:56 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Craftmore

Preaching is one thing — to that, all are called, woman, man or child. But the elders (presbyter = priest) were always men from Christ’s time. We cannot change what Christ ordained.


106 posted on 04/28/2013 10:55:52 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: RegulatorCountry
Strangely enough I agree -- we should stop using the term "Protestant" -- there are groups like the UCC or ECUSA who people from an evangelical background or WELS etc. would cringe at being clubbed with them

I'm sure you too would not call the UCC a potential ally of ours, right?

The article should have lashed out specifically at the UCC.

107 posted on 04/28/2013 10:58:12 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Gamecock; metmom
try to blame on true Protestant

Yet Gamecock, that very term "Protestant" should not be used at all, whether by Catholic or by non-Catholic

The definition of "True Protestant" is vague -- after all, if we keep it to those who came out of the Reformation like Calvinists, then metmom's religion is not "true Protestantism" as it rejects the belief in predestination.

I agree that this article shouldn't blame "Protestants", but specifically the UCC and more the ex-nun and her coterie, but I disagree with your concept of "true Protestant" -- it's too vague. Better a "true Calvinist" which is a specific doctrine or a true unitarian or whatever for met

108 posted on 04/28/2013 11:01:38 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: .45 Long Colt

by faith alone — there are Unitarians, Swedenborgians, even some Evangelicals (can’t remember which off hand, but some freepers belong to these and pointed it out) which refute that.


109 posted on 04/28/2013 11:04:20 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Colonel_Flagg; RegulatorCountry
The UCC no more defines Protestantism than this splinter group defines the Roman Church.

Here, here. I vote all of us, Catholics or non-Catholics stop using the term "protestant" -- it is too much of an umbrella term and includes religions that have next to nothing in common.

110 posted on 04/28/2013 11:05:37 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: editor-surveyor; metmom; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; Salvation
one who:
A - Believes that what Yehova gave us is all that he gave us,
B - and does not worship/venerate dead creatures,
C - Understands that Yehova has no mommie.

Actually, many of the non-Catholic freepers who call themselves under the "P" umbrella term won't subscribe to this -- you have Old Reggie with unitarianism, cyc with Jehovah's Witnesses, then the various Pentecostals who would have a bit of dispute with A

Finally, everyone agrees that Yehovah, i.e. God the Father has no mother.

111 posted on 04/29/2013 1:36:46 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: metmom
metmom: for those who hate God's word.

you mean the words that talk about the rapture?

112 posted on 04/29/2013 1:40:24 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: CynicalBear; Houghton M.; metmom
We like and believe in the pristhood as defined in scripture. All believers are a royal pristhood.

i'm sorry but your point disagrees with Lutheran concept of the priesthood. Are they not "true Protestants" in your eyes?

113 posted on 04/29/2013 1:41:40 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: narses; CynicalBear; metmom
Narses, you could also ask CB about "Creationists can’t really explain the dinosaurs and other facts. Evolutionists don’t have the link between species.

I believe the gap theory. There is a gap between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2 of billions of years.
"....
114 posted on 04/29/2013 1:44:02 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: metmom; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; narses
Which one is it? do you metmom say that “All of the Easter abomination is pagan and God clearly condemned it in scripture.”
115 posted on 04/29/2013 1:45:11 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: metmom; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; narses; CynicalBear
Gamecock: "true Protestants"

I don't know if CB's beliefs are in that bucket -- are they? CB: "The beginning of the pagan Easter observance began with Semiramis and her son Tamuz you know.

Tamuz was killed by a wild hog you know. That’s why Semiramis dictated that the preserved meat of a hog should be consumed each spring equinox. Interesting isn’t it? Ever have the traditional ham on Easter?"

116 posted on 04/29/2013 1:46:42 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: CynicalBear; narses; Gamecock; Alex Murphy
Sorry, CB, as usual, you are wrong:

trying to link Christmas and Christ with Tammuz is incorrect

Tammuz, the Sumerian deity was forgotten before the Neo-Babylonian empire collapsed. And the feast was:
1. celebrated according the old Sumerian calendar which does not gel with ours (you can compare a lunar based with a solar base but the days change each year) and
2. in general a summer feast.
3. Dec 21 would be the death of Tammuz with the winter solstice -- a time for mourning, not celebrating....

Do read up before shooting false facts all the time

117 posted on 04/29/2013 1:52:49 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: CynicalBear; narses; Gamecock; Alex Murphy
CB: Check out Baal and the sun god.

Incredible, do you really want to say that Christianity is a continuation of Baal?

Btw, Baal wasn't the sun god of the ancient Semitic peoples.

And next don't bring up the story of Odin being nailed to a tree...

we have enough of anti-Christians nuts in Obama's admin without infiltration into FR

118 posted on 04/29/2013 1:54:27 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: CynicalBear
"Your appointed feasts My soul hates" (Isaiah 1:14–15) "I hate, I despise your feast days, and I do not savor your sacred assemblies" (Amos 5:21–23)

you of course do realize that this was written before Christ's birth, so has nothing to do with Christianity.

Or perhaps you don't?

119 posted on 04/29/2013 1:55:45 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: metmom; Craftmore; CynicalBear
metmom: I think he’s on our side with this.

Which side is this?

The one that believes in Christ's birth and sacrifice or the one that says Christ is a rehashing of Tammuz or Baal the sun god and who says that Christmas and Easter are pagan?

which side is this? the one that believe in "hell was created for the devil and his angels. But if God could look down the time tunnel and see what would happen, knowing Adam would fall, why would He do that as a loving God?" or the 'hell doesn't exist' crowd?

which side is this? the one that believes in the gap theory or the one that doesn't?

120 posted on 04/29/2013 2:05:41 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: metmom; Salvation

So you do admit that your earlier statement “burning incense” was wrong?


121 posted on 04/29/2013 2:06:44 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: metmom; Salvation
There is no need for a priesthood to offer sacrifices.

Jesus shed blood was enough and put an end to the system of sacrifices.

Catholic Priests do not "offer sacrifice." They re-present the original one of Christ.

Jesus said at the last supper to "Do this in memory of me."

To a Jew of that time those words have specific meaning. He said them during the Passover. Jews, to this day believe that in celebrating the Passover, they are participating in the original one. So when Jesus says to celebrate the Eucharist, He is saying we participate in that original one.

Please do not take my word for this go to the website "askmoses.com" and as them what they believe about the original and current Passover celebration. They do not view them as separate events.

122 posted on 04/29/2013 2:37:47 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: metmom

Well...that’s why Pride is a sin that God warns us so about...it’s destructive.... and keeps us away from the truth He wants us to know, and the relationship He desires we have with Him.

Maybe a thread sometime about “Pride” and how it interfers with Gods best for us might be possible along the way, especially regarding the things we choose to ‘believe in’.

Same with what we Believe...for I have found what a person ‘Believes” in can be very different then what they “think”.


123 posted on 04/29/2013 2:50:42 AM PDT by caww
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To: CynicalBear; Craftmore; metmom
Care to guess how much of the RCC symbols, rituals, garments, and feast days come from pagan religion?

There's nothing unscriptural about vestments. God commanded that they be used in the Old Testament. Look at Exodus 28:2. Catholic Feast/Memorial Days are days set aside to remember important people and events through the course of Our faith - Christmas, Easter, Pentecost, Christ the King, etc.

124 posted on 04/29/2013 3:52:17 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: metmom; Salvation; editor-surveyor
It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and the saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues.

You forgot forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues. For example: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18–20).

David gave Solomon the plan "for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s plan for the temple, which the biblical author tells us was "by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all," included statues of angels.

Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, "On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim."

Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Do you instruct children in Bible Study using books without pictures?

125 posted on 04/29/2013 4:01:26 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: Cronos

Maybe we should just define “true Protestant” as anyone who calls themselves Christian yet rejects the Catholic Church’s teachings. After all, the people you mentioned (and more) all at least have in common the fact that they hate Catholicism.

Wait, that’ll just put us back where we started...< sigh > ...it’s so difficult to please those who hate the Church.

Good thing we’re all conservatives who reject “political correctness” though! < /sarc >


126 posted on 04/29/2013 4:47:44 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Cronos
I believe in Christs birth,death and resurrection.
I believe that the entire Bible,is the inspired word of God.
I do not believe that Jesus is a rehashing of Tammuz,or baal and the sungods.
I see nothing wrong with honoring Jesus on Christmas and Easter.
I believe that hell was created for the devil and his angels and my fervent hope is that all should come to repentance and be saved.
I believe that Christ alone has the power to save us from our sins.
Gap theory? Never heard of it before.My Bible says that the earth was formless and void.How long it had been that way I dont know.But the rest of creation took 6 days.Since God calls the evening and the morning a day,,Im comfortable that He meant a literal 24 hour day.
I dont believe that Mary is a co-redeemer with Christ,or that we should pray to Mary or the saints,or even light candles to them.
However she is blessed among all women for being chosen to carry Christ in her womb.I dont believe that she remained a virgin afterwards.My bible says that Joseph knew her not untill after Christ was born.That to me implies that they had normal marital relations after Christ was born.
I think its disgusting that the RCC allowed gay pedophile priests to abuse little boys,covered up for them,protected them and moved them from parish to parish.However protestant churchs have also had thier share of scandals.We should remember that “All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”
Regarding women in the church.
I believe that God uses both men and women to further His kingdom.Mary Magdeline imho where she was told by Christ to tell the disciples that “He was Risen”was the first use of preaching the gospel.Esther was used by God to save the entire jewish race.Many times God appointed women as Judges and Prophetesses to rule over Isreal.In Jesus list of ancestors are several women mentioned,one of whom was a prostitute that saved the Isreali spies.
Im sure that both sides will disagree with me over some of these statemants,but I stand by them.
127 posted on 04/29/2013 4:48:03 AM PDT by Craftmore
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To: Cronos

Then those folks aren’t historic Protestants either. By the way, the word Evangelical, much like Protestant or Christian, has been stripped of its historic meaning. Rob Bell is labeled Evangelical and so am I. Even so I probably have less in common with Rob than I do with some conservative Catholics, yet I hold essentially the same view of the RCC, popery and Catholic priesthood as Luther, Calvin, Knox, Edwards and Spurgeon.

Scripture clearly teaches that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone. Erasmus correctly recognized that was the heart of Luther’s protest. Historic Protestants were united on this point.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.” (Ephesians 2:8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9mQW5YfV54


128 posted on 04/29/2013 5:14:52 AM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: NYer

Yes, I do realize that God commanded images to be made on occasion.

I suppose that it depends on the whose idea it was and what it’s for to some extent.

Even if the part about not making images can be debated due to other examples such as you gave, there’s still the problem of the *bowing down to* part.

Bowing is bowing. Someone kneels down or stands in front of a statue and bows their head to it, they are bowing, something that is commanded to NOT be done.

And I’ve seen enough prayers to Mary that are outright idolatrous. Not simply requests to her to pray for people but prayers to her FOR things and asking HER to answer and grant them.

I don’t know anyone who bows down or worships photographs of their mother. If they did, I don’t think there’d be a person around who wouldn’t recognize that there was something wrong with that.


129 posted on 04/29/2013 5:26:11 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Cronos

Yeah, my mistake.

My mind was remembering candles, but fingers typed incense. Don’t know why that happened.


130 posted on 04/29/2013 5:27:32 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Cronos
>>i'm sorry but your point disagrees with Lutheran concept of the priesthood. Are they not "true Protestants" in your eyes?<<

LOL It also disagrees with Islam, Catholicism, Mormon, and many other religions. I follow scripture, not “true Protestants” or other carnally constructed “religion”. Protestantism was birthed by Catholicism and many of the errors of Catholicism were carried with it. I follow scripture not “religions”.

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3: So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4: And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

131 posted on 04/29/2013 5:29:15 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Cronos

Show me where I connected Tamuz with Christmas. I didn’t because Tamuz is not connected to Christmas. Do understand the post before shooting false assumptions.


132 posted on 04/29/2013 5:34:07 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Cronos
>> Incredible, do you really want to say that Christianity is a continuation of Baal?<<

I’m saying the RCC form of religion is. Clear enough? God spoke rather clearly about using what the pagans did to serve Him.

Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Can you show from scripture all the vestments, rituals, feast days and symbols from Catholicism that God commanded or were they added by the RCC?

>> Btw, Baal wasn't the sun god of the ancient Semitic peoples.<<

Once again trying to put words into what I said. The Semitic god was El who was supposedly the father of Baal the god of the Canaanites and Phoenicians. Trying to deflect is rather lame.

133 posted on 04/29/2013 5:53:42 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Cronos; metmom
>>The one that believes in Christ's birth and sacrifice or the one that says Christ is a rehashing of Tammuz or Baal the sun god and who says that Christmas and Easter are pagan?<<

Wow! The twisting of words surely doesn’t come from the one true God. Christ is not a rehashing of Tamuz. Incorporating the worship of Tamuz into the worship of Christ is however what God was speaking to in Deuteronomy 12. The RCC has clearly adopted the pagan ways.

134 posted on 04/29/2013 5:59:46 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: NYer; Craftmore; metmom
>> There's nothing unscriptural about vestments.<<

Luke 20:45 As all the people were listening, Jesus said to his disciples, 46 "Beware of the experts in the law. They like walking around in long robes, and they love elaborate greetings in the marketplaces and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. 47 They devour widows' property, and as a show make long prayers. They will receive a more severe punishment." Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go.

When Jesus came to earth and died on the cross, the Temple curtain was ripped from top to bottom signifying that the ritual of human priestly mediation between God and man was OVER!

135 posted on 04/29/2013 6:16:11 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: metmom
Bowing is bowing. Someone kneels down or stands in front of a statue and bows their head to it ...

Bowing is matanoia. We don't bow to statues ... we bow to God. Some of older fogies were taught as children to bow our head each time the name of "Jesus" is mentioned in a prayer. We still do that, out of love and respect for our Savior.

I’ve seen enough prayers to Mary that are outright idolatrous. Not simply requests to her to pray for people but prayers to her FOR things and asking HER to answer and grant them.

Let's take a look at the Hail Mary prayer. The prayer begins, "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee." This is nothing other than the greeting the angel Gabriel gave Mary in Luke 1:28 (Confraternity Version). The next part reads this way: "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus." This was exactly what Mary’s cousin Elizabeth said to her in Luke 1:42. The only thing that has been added to these two verses are the names "Jesus" and "Mary," to make clear who is being referred to. So the first part of the Hail Mary is entirely biblical.

The second part of the Hail Mary is not taken straight from Scripture, but it is entirely biblical in the thoughts it expresses. It reads: "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen."

Praying for each other is simply part of what Christians do. As we see, in 1 Timothy 2:1–4, Paul strongly encouraged Christians to intercede for many different things, and that passage is by no means unique in his writings. Elsewhere Paul directly asks others to pray for him (Rom. 15:30–32, Eph. 6:18–20, Col. 4:3, 1 Thess. 5:25, 2 Thess. 3:1), and he assured them that he was praying for them as well (2 Thess. 1:11). Most fundamentally, Jesus himself required us to pray for others, and not only for those who asked us to do so (Matt. 5:44).

The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2).

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

And those in heaven who offer to God our prayers aren’t just angels, but humans as well. John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

We know from Scripture that Jesus responded to His mother's request at the Wedding Feast of Cana. She is a powerful intercessor who always points towards her Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus honored His mother; Catholics follow His lead. With his dying breath, Jesus entrusted His mother to all us from the cross. Who better to have praying for you than the Mother of God.

136 posted on 04/29/2013 6:43:01 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: CynicalBear; Cronos; Salvation; NYer

Say CB where is the stuff you are preaching taught?

Has this been hidden from the People of God for 2,000 years and just a tiny select few privy?

Is there any mainstream seminary or teaching institution that anyone can verify your teachings in?


137 posted on 04/29/2013 7:09:13 AM PDT by narses
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To: narses; CynicalBear; Cronos; Salvation; NYer

>> “Say CB where is the stuff you are preaching taught?” <<

.
It’s taught by the Holy Spirit, by reading the word of Yehova aloud. (Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of Yehova)

.
>> “Has this been hidden from the People of God for 2,000 years and just a tiny select few privy?” <<

.
It certainly has not been hidden by Yehova, but by Mystery Babylon, the Mystery of Iniquity, that operates every church and seminary on Earth. The Harlot and her daughters.

We are called out of the hovels of harlotry that you advocate here, to explore Torah, the scriptures from which Yeshua taught every point of doctrine (when he said “It is written...).

But it is true that few there be that find it! Narrow is the path that leads to the Kingdom of Yehova. Broad is the path of Mystery Babylon, that leads to destruction.

So, celebrate your worldly seminaries, Ha-Satan does too!


138 posted on 04/29/2013 7:27:58 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: narses
>> Say CB where is the stuff you are preaching taught?<<

Scripture. You didn’t recognize the verses sited?

>> Has this been hidden from the People of God for 2,000 years<<

Oh no, it hasn’t been hidden from the people of God at all. The RCC has often attempted to martyr them out of existence but failed.

>> and just a tiny select few privy?<<

As a matter of fact scripture says exactly that doesn’t it.

Matthew 7:14 Because narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it. >> Is there any mainstream seminary or teaching institution that anyone can verify your teachings in?<<

Mainstream? Did you think God was kidding in Mathew 7:14?

139 posted on 04/29/2013 7:28:51 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: editor-surveyor
Interesting that so many find solace in numbers isn’t it? Following the “traditions of men” will not end well for those who find comfort on that wide road. The warning in Revelation to “come out of her” should cause those who truly want to follow Christ to “Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
140 posted on 04/29/2013 7:40:27 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: metmom; NYer
Someone needs to look up the words "intercession" and "mediation" in the dictionary.

PS it is not the Catholic.

141 posted on 04/29/2013 7:43:25 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: editor-surveyor; Old Sarge; NorthernCrunchyCon; UMCRevMom@aol.com; Finatic; fellowpatriot; ...
editor-surveyor wrote: It certainly has not been hidden by Yehova, but by Mystery Babylon, the Mystery of Iniquity, that operates every church and seminary on Earth. The Harlot and her daughters. Nota Bene, see editor-surveyor's tag line, it speaks volumes. Say editor-surveyor does this mean you do not attend any Church?
142 posted on 04/29/2013 8:08:43 AM PDT by narses
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Comment #143 Removed by Moderator

To: narses

I attend gatherings of Yehova’s elect, in such places and times as they maym occur.

I do not respect the teachings of men, because Yeshua rejected them.


144 posted on 04/29/2013 8:11:29 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: metmom
Catholics will take the words of Jesus over yours.

"Do this in remembrance of me."

Sorry, we'll stick with Jesus' words! Have you never heard of a memorial before? (In memory of Christ)

145 posted on 04/29/2013 8:21:30 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: metmom

No candles are burned to statues. They are burned usually for as a prayer for someone who has died or someone who needs prayers. Much like a prayer ping here when we pray for someone who needs help — which, btw, you have also done.


146 posted on 04/29/2013 8:25:02 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: metmom
**Easier until it drags them down into hell cause their pride wouldn't let them admit that they've been wrong all those years.**

Why do you say Catholics will be dragged down to hell?

Christ said, "Unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you will not enter the Kingdom of God."

He also said I am the truth -- not the custom! LOL!

147 posted on 04/29/2013 8:27:33 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: editor-surveyor; narses; CynicalBear; Salvation; NYer
narses: ">> “Has this been hidden from the People of God for 2,000 years and just a tiny select few privy?” <<

editor: It certainly has not been hidden by Yehova

hmmm... you mean the Gap Theory? About CB's belief that There is a gap between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2 of billions of years?

148 posted on 04/29/2013 9:14:58 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: FourtySeven; CynicalBear; metmom
Maybe we should just define “true Protestant” as anyone who calls themselves Christian yet rejects the Catholic Church’s teachings. After all, the people you mentioned (and more) all at least have in common the fact that they hate Catholicism.

It would seem that way. But then that would include CB's gap theory, metmom's anti-Calvinism, the Jehovah's Witnesses and even Mormons

149 posted on 04/29/2013 9:16:35 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Craftmore
My apologies -- my previous post was directed at mm

to your point which is specifically related to this thread I believe that God uses both men and women to further His kingdom.Mary Magdeline imho where she was told by Christ to tell the disciples that “He was Risen”was the first use of preaching the gospel.Esther was used by God to save the entire jewish race.Many times God appointed women as Judges and Prophetesses to rule over Isreal.In Jesus list of ancestors are several women mentioned,one of whom was a prostitute that saved the Isreali spies.

God does use both men and women

Women's role is as important as men's -- our argument is that it is different. It is not lesser, but it IS different.

A woman preacher, yes, a woman administrator yes, a woman councillor, scholar, doctor of the church yes. But a priestess, no. Not because of some "defect" in woman, rather for the same reason there are no male mothers, it is a different role

150 posted on 04/29/2013 9:21:30 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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