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Vatican may prohibit female alter (sic) service [Catholic Caucus]
ndsmcobserver.com ^ | October 14, 2003/Updated September 2012 | Amanda Michaels

Posted on 04/29/2013 7:50:03 PM PDT by Salvation

Vatican may prohibit female alter (sic) service

By Michaels, Amanda

Published: Tuesday, October 14, 2003

Updated: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:09

 

On Sept. 23, the Italian Catholic monthly, "Jesus," released advanced text of an article featuring excerpts from a draft document, or directive, written by the Vatican congregations for Divine Worship and the Sacraments and for the Doctrine of the Faith. Distributed on June 5, the document was an expansion on the papal encyclical published in April that cut down on abuses during Mass, specifically during Communion.

According to reports, in addition to banning applause and dancing at Mass - both of which often occur at papal services - the document specified that the use of female altar servers should be avoided "unless there is a just pastoral cause," and that "priests should never feel obliged to seek girls for this function."

However, both the Catholic News Service, the media extension of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB), and the National Catholic Reporter (NCR) stated that the directive was almost immediately sent back for revisions.

"On June 29, the cardinals in charge of the two offices working on the document had a meeting and rejected it," said John Allen, Rome correspondent for the NCR. "The final version is expected by Christmas, and at least for now it says nothing on altar girls."

Though the news of the proposal's rejection is cause for much relief among female acolytes, the mere suggestion of restricting their use has stirred up controversy all over the United States and Western Europe, where the practice has become commonplace.

Since 1994, the USCCB has held that each individual bishop has the power to decide whether or not females within their diocese should be altar servers - a verdict based on the interpretation of 1983 Canon Law 230.2, said Sheila Garcia, USCCB Secretariat for Family, Laity, Women and Youth. To this date, very few dioceses across the country have prevented women from serving.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: altarboys; altargirls; altarservers; canonlaw; catholic; liturgy; mass; priests; usccb; vatican
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Obviously, the author does not know the difference between 'alter' and 'altar'.

That's why you see (sic) in the title.

1 posted on 04/29/2013 7:50:03 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: Salvation

Always inspires confidence when the headline has misspellings.

SnakeDoc


2 posted on 04/29/2013 7:51:28 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens)
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Has this come to your church or diocese?

Catholic Ping!


3 posted on 04/29/2013 7:51:32 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: SnakeDoctor

Apologies ... didn’t see the Caucus heading before I posted. Southern Baptist, signing off.

SnakeDoc


4 posted on 04/29/2013 7:52:16 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens)
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To: SnakeDoctor

No problem.


5 posted on 04/29/2013 7:52:56 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Amen. And I do believe many of our “American Catholic” priests have altar egos.


6 posted on 04/29/2013 7:56:25 PM PDT by jobim (.)
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To: jobim

There are many that are humble and reverent and do not celebrate the Mass for their own edification. In fact, if they are, they shouldn’t even be a priest.

But I know you were speaking, tongue in cheek.


7 posted on 04/29/2013 7:58:15 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Has this come to your church or diocese?

No.

8 posted on 04/29/2013 8:02:57 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: Salvation
"unless there is a just pastoral cause,"

At first I was very excited to read this, then I saw we have the usual open-ended escape clause.

9 posted on 04/29/2013 8:04:44 PM PDT by jtal (Runnin' a World in Need with White Folks' Greed - since 1492)
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To: Salvation

My parish has never allowed female altar servers. Probably never will.


10 posted on 04/29/2013 8:08:27 PM PDT by virgil
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To: virgil

I would really like to see that at my parish.

We have a new Bishop in western Oregon. Dare I hope for this change in one year?


11 posted on 04/29/2013 8:14:38 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

The dates on this are 2003 & 2012


12 posted on 04/29/2013 8:19:08 PM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig (It is going to be Foot to Ass combat on election day....my foot and a Rat's ass.)
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To: Salvation

As a Catholic woman, I have never felt comfortable with women serving at the altar. Guess I’m too old for the “winds of change”.


13 posted on 04/29/2013 8:21:41 PM PDT by basil (basil --Second Amendment Sisters.org)
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To: TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig

Yep. An update for the 2012 — must be that the USCCB hasn’t ruled on it completely.

Bah!


14 posted on 04/29/2013 8:22:47 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: basil

I have come to accept female altar servers. What I can’t accept was the removal of altar rails and the taking of communion in one’s own hands.


15 posted on 04/29/2013 8:35:00 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Salvation

My daughter is an altar server at our parish. Most of the servers are female, as only a few boys volunteered. If this comes to pass, then c’est la vie. Our faith will accommodate the shifting ground.


16 posted on 04/29/2013 8:38:35 PM PDT by catbertz
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To: Salvation; Chode

I thought it already was


17 posted on 04/29/2013 8:45:24 PM PDT by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: catbertz; Steelfish

An altar server, then an acolyte — were steps to becoming a priest.

Sad that this has happened — but I am so happy that it may be on the way back.

Almost all the sacristans at my church are women. There are a lot of things that we can do behind the scenes.

Steelfish, I’m with you on the altar rails being put back and receiving Communion on the tongue. After you read a book by Maria Simma about the poor souls in Purgatory “Get Us Out of Here” you will NEVER EVER receive the Body of Christ in your hand again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


18 posted on 04/29/2013 8:46:44 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: catbertz

The boys don’t want to serve with a girl. They like to serve with another boy.


19 posted on 04/29/2013 8:47:37 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Steelfish

I’ve never been to a Mass with female altar servers and never will be.


20 posted on 04/29/2013 8:55:00 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: catbertz
then c’est la vie. Our faith will accommodate the shifting ground.

Sounds a lot like cultural relativism: an anathema to The Church. Any limits at all from your point of view on these concessions to practicality and modernism?

21 posted on 04/29/2013 8:59:23 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: Salvation

Think I’ll get a copy of that one. Reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/HERE-Maria-Simma-Speaks-Nicky/product-reviews/0972744509/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1


22 posted on 04/29/2013 9:03:04 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: Salvation
No tongue in cheek at all. "American Catholic" implies the
Bernardin-Mahoney-Reese-Weakland-Hesburgh-Land-O-Lakes-
Dominican Nuns of Sinsinnawa-Pope Joan-Curran-etaletal.
Their warped theological outlook says: "I must increase..."

A holy priest that you speak of, of which there are legion in
our great nation, is a gift beyond all reckoning.
23 posted on 04/29/2013 9:03:11 PM PDT by jobim (.)
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To: Salvation
The Vatican "threatens to force them back into the crowd". Wow, Amanda sure did pack a whole lot into that sentence.

Threatens? Check.

Force them? Check.

Back into the crowd? Check.

This is feminist speak, and Amanda is pulling the "gender card" with this kind of language. These women are not being forced or threatened. Sheesh.
24 posted on 04/29/2013 9:03:40 PM PDT by joseph20 (...to ourselves and our Posterity...)
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To: steve86

Fascinating book. Some believable — some I questioned. But the part about receiving Holy Communion is very believable.


25 posted on 04/29/2013 9:05:33 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

I’m a little put off by the book’s association with “The Medjugorje Web” but won’t let that stand in the way of reading it.


26 posted on 04/29/2013 9:07:40 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: jobim; NYer

Thank goodness the Bishops (Bernardin’s Boys and Jadot’s Jots, I call them) have been and are being replaced by orthodox and outstanding bishops.

Thank you, Pope John Paul II for getting things going, thank you Pope Benedict XVI for putting the train on the fast track and thank you, Pope Francis for continuing the effort.

Clark and Hubbard in NY state still need to be replaced.


27 posted on 04/29/2013 9:09:43 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Some believable — some I questioned

Like the part where she says Hermann Göring is in Heaven? I'm starting to wonder now if reading the book is a good idea. This communicating with souls in the afterworld -- good ones or bad ones -- is not something Catholics generally would be advised to do.

28 posted on 04/29/2013 9:26:04 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: Salvation

This looks like an old article, right? Sept. 2012 revision?

What is the point of reading it now? Has the Vatican said something new on this?


29 posted on 04/29/2013 10:06:22 PM PDT by married21
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To: Salvation

I’ve had 3 daughters be altar servers, but I think it should be all boys.

I think the rise of girl altar servers and the decrease in vocations are related.

That being said it was a good experience for my girls.


30 posted on 04/29/2013 10:28:32 PM PDT by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (Go Egypt on 0bama)
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To: steve86

Perhaps you misunderstood my comment. If they choose to ban females, we will accept the decision.
Hope that helped you.


31 posted on 04/29/2013 11:00:16 PM PDT by catbertz
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To: catbertz

Perhaps then the problem is that the boys feel there is no role for them.

Are we encouraging the boys to step forward when we say, eh? who cares? Girls are just as good if not better.


32 posted on 04/29/2013 11:19:16 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: JCBreckenridge

First, I missed who was saying “girls are just as good, if not better”. Did you think I said that?

Second, the specific causes responsible for boys not getting involved is complicated to be sure. I expect that multiple reasons are at play. If the Pope chooses to ban girls, then so be it, but I doubt the presence of girls is scaring away the boys.

I coach a co-ed Catholic baseball team, and none of the teams in our co-ed league seem to have any trouble filling the roster with boys willing to play alongside girls.


33 posted on 04/30/2013 12:12:42 AM PDT by catbertz
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To: JCBreckenridge

The Catholic Church is being subverted by Marxist ideology-—the “Social” Justice crew-—they injected women into traditional male roles——inside the Church-—to emasculate the traditionally very masculine Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church is about doing Battle-—the Battle for Souls against Satan. They need males for this role.

Masculine traits like that in St. Paul-—are necessary for survival of the Church—if you feminize boys-—blur male/female roles (women in combat/firefighters, altar girls, etc)-—boys learn to NOT put women on a pedestal and be the “protector”-—the “Fighter” willing to sacrifice for family which is needed for survival of cultures and maturity in males.

Truth (which the Catholic Church is always supposed to be for) states that there is a different role for males and females (biology proves it, too). Marxists want to erase the differences and confuse the children so anything becomes “right”——the Catholic Church is infiltrated.

Blurring the roles of males and females ruins Catholic Theology, which refers to the “Bride” of Christ, God the Father, etc. It makes it hard for children to understand the underlying meaning of Catholic Theology.

Men are not “growing up” (no decent role models and healthy male bonding (like in Boy Scouts and as altar boys) ... it is intentional...the Leftist plan to collapse Western Civilization and they need to destroy Christianity to do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei0TcEgHK4Y


34 posted on 04/30/2013 12:24:23 AM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: catbertz

I’m not saying what you said. I’m saying what they hear.

What you are teaching them is that, “it doesn’t matter whether it’s boys or girls”, when it’s girls stepping up.

The boys hear, “I’m happy that there are girls up there” since you are a girl yourself. Then then think, “there is no value to me stepping up and doing something because everyone is happy with the status quo”.


35 posted on 04/30/2013 1:33:19 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: savagesusie

I agree wholeheartedly.

I used to be a boy scout and was a leader, Spent about 10 years in the scouting movement.

Our group fell apart within a few years after I left. Why? Because they insisted that girls participate since, “it was not right that boys got to do things while girls did not.”

The result? There isn’t a boy scout’s group anymore.

Which - is the goal.

We need to be encouraging boys to step up - and the way you do that is to say that you want boys only.


36 posted on 04/30/2013 1:35:45 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: Salvation

Sadly we have a number of Girl servers at our parish.


37 posted on 04/30/2013 2:33:36 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: catbertz

In our parish, it’s a pretty even split, with the boys having a slight advantage. Our pastor gives the altar servers a trip to a local amusement park every year.


38 posted on 04/30/2013 2:39:07 AM PDT by old and tired
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To: catbertz
If the Pope chooses to ban girls, then so be it, but I doubt the presence of girls is scaring away the boys.

Do you have any sons? There should be no doubt that the presence of girls keeps the numbers of boys down. I'm not heavily invested one way or the other in the question of girls serving, but I'm not kidding myself about one of the consequences.

39 posted on 04/30/2013 2:50:30 AM PDT by old and tired
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To: virgil

Every diocese now allows them; I remember when the last American one did. The rule itself was implemented in a crappy way because it left the decision up to the ordinary, so every ordinary was immediately under pressure to allow them regardless of his preference (by the way, leaving it up to the ordinary indicated to me there was no divine guidance at all in the decision).


40 posted on 04/30/2013 3:15:57 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: catbertz
My daughter is an altar server at our parish. Most of the servers are female, as only a few boys volunteered. If this comes to pass, then c’est la vie. Our faith will accommodate the shifting ground.

My three eldest (daughter and two sons) who are eligible, serve. However, we are getting a new pastor next month (TLM qualified and fairly young) so that may change the game. Personally, I think that women should be excluded from serving at the altar, and that when the deacon is present at Mass, extraordinary ministers should not distribute the Blood.

It should be the two ordained who administer the distribution of the Eucharist.

Now, when the Communion rail is returned, along with the patens held by the servers, then I shall be excited.

41 posted on 04/30/2013 3:26:09 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr

You ought to see how many EMs are at our parish. It’s beyond ridiculous. 15 at every Mass distributing both elements of the Eucharist. I know Father is just trying to save time, but good grief! That’s an abuse, IMO.


42 posted on 04/30/2013 3:53:37 AM PDT by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: Salvation

We always had ample numbers of boy serving at our parish. After the girls started serving the number of boys dropped dramatically. Less than half of the servers are boys now.


43 posted on 04/30/2013 4:35:51 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Salvation

Hasn’t come to ours; if it weren’t for the females, there would be a huge shortage of altar servers. Seems once they began to allow the use of the females, the males lost interest.


44 posted on 04/30/2013 4:57:49 AM PDT by Rich21IE
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To: Salvation

No, it has not come to my diocese, but, unfortunately, ours is not very traditional.


45 posted on 04/30/2013 5:30:20 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Restore us, O God of hosts; let your face shine, that we may be saved! -Ps80)
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To: basil

Ditto and ditto.

Also, when I receive Communion I avoid the line for the Extraordinary Minister. Fortunately, in my rather small parish, I am almost always able to sit on the side of the church that allows me to wind up in Father’s line.


46 posted on 04/30/2013 5:33:17 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Restore us, O God of hosts; let your face shine, that we may be saved! -Ps80)
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To: catbertz

...only a few boys volunteered....

&&&
I am willing to bet that there would have been more boys interested if it was open to boys only.


47 posted on 04/30/2013 5:34:46 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Restore us, O God of hosts; let your face shine, that we may be saved! -Ps80)
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To: joseph20

I agree with all you said. Good analysis.

In addition, Amanda, a 12-year-old girl is not a woman.


48 posted on 04/30/2013 5:38:08 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Restore us, O God of hosts; let your face shine, that we may be saved! -Ps80)
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To: catbertz
Most of the servers are female, as only a few boys volunteered.

My Cathedral parish has only allowed boys, on some Sundays so many boys were suiting up that the Rector had to put a limit on how many can serve.

Where you make something a uniquely male thing to do you get many more volunteers. The military is finding this out.

49 posted on 04/30/2013 6:11:53 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: Salvation

My parish has tried to improvel situation by actively recruiting only boys. It doesn’t work. Altar service has been effectively redefined as “women’s work” and boys only serve as their parents make them do it. They quit at the earliest opportunity. That is the problem with women taking administrative positions in the church and “ministries.” Men look at these things now as “women’s work.” Religion is becoming what women do. That will be the hardest of the corruptions of the faux “spirit” of Vatican II to undo.


50 posted on 04/30/2013 6:15:42 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson)
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