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Christian Indifference to Christian Suffering
Frontpagemag ^ | April 12, 2013 | Michael Finch

Posted on 05/07/2013 10:21:00 AM PDT by Enza Ferreri

Christians are being persecuted all over the world.  Churches are being burned and destroyed, girls are being raped and ancient Christian communities reaching back 2,000 years are being obliterated.  And the world yawns.  Most shockingly, many Christians in the West, worse than yawning, look away and in some cases embrace the perpetrators and blame our allies.

This begs the obvious question:  Why do so many Christians in America and Europe seem to not care about what is happening around the world to their fellow disciples of Jesus?  Why are we looking the other way while the brutal murder, persecution, rape and ethnic and religious cleansing is happening right before our eyes?

The answers are complicated and unfortunately, don’t offer much hope for the future.  First some history:

The fact is, Christians have never been united.  Even before 1054 and the Great Schism between Rome and Constantinople, Christians were at odds with each other.  The Schism just made it official.  The Protestant Reformation of the early 16th century further divided “Christendom” into a multitude of fractures, ending any hope of a united Christian Church.

While the Eastern Roman Empire was, for centuries, holding off the oncoming Turkish Muslim hordes, the Western Church did worse than yawn; in 1204 they irrevocably weakened the Byzantine Empire when they sacked Constantinople on their way to the Holy Land.  Much of the beauty of Venice was the booty stolen from their fellow Christians of the East.  When Constantinople finally fell in 1453, aid did not come from Christian Europe in spite of frantic pleas for assistance.

There have been great moments in the history of the West, when Christians fought together against a common foe.  Most notably when the Pole Jan Sobieski lead a heroic charge of Catholics and Protestants at Vienna in 1683 and likely saved Europe from being overrun by the Turks and becoming Muslim.  But most of the history of the West has seen Christians at each other’s throats, one long trail of bloody wars after another with World War I being perhaps the last light in the Christian West going out.  Perhaps Sobieski only bought us a few hundred years before the Muslim onslaught.

But if history is against us, so are those divisions within Christianity.  Unfortunately, for most Christians, a Christian is not a Christian.  To get an American Roman Catholic to worry about an Assyrian Iraqi Christian or to get a Presbyterian to concern themselves with a Melkite Catholic in Syria is a near impossible task.  You will have better luck raising their awareness of Buddhist monks in Tibet.  When you walk in a Baptist Church and find tracts that call Rome and the Catholic Church the “whore of Babylon” and the Pope the “anti-Christ” is it really surprising that they have such little concern for the raping of Coptic Christians in Egypt?  There is a now infamous photo of an Egyptian Copt with his hand on a blood-stained painting of Jesus on the walls of a destroyed church in Alexandria.  A comment made to me about the image from a fundamentalist Protestant was “Images of Jesus are a false idol and therefore heresy.”  And we wonder why no one cares?

And finally, the scourge of political correctness and the influence the Left has had on our culture is perhaps the greatest reason why we lack the will to fight.  Or even to care.  We see it in Hollywood, the media, in our politics and, of course, in our churches.

Even I, as a non-Catholic, yearn for some kind of leadership from the Vatican.  Pope John Paul will live forever in the hearts of those who love freedom for his courageous stance against Communism.  There was hope for Pope Benedict early on, but those hopes were quickly squashed.  When the Pope would make a statement about the persecution of Christians in the Middle East, he would invariably mention, the “occupation,” “two state solution” or some other canard to blame Israel for what the Muslims are doing to Christians.  To do so is disgusting and shameful and a further blight on the Church.  May this new Pope find the courage that so many others have lacked.

When we look to other Christian churches, the news only gets worse.  American and European main-stream protestant churches are pathetic examples of a post-Christian world.  We see a full embracing of the Palestinian cause and an apology to their terror.  They have so fallen into the leftist mantra that they can’t see the evil before their eyes.  I liken it to western feminists saying nothing about the plight of women under Islam; the genital mutilations, beatings, rapes and honor killings.  They don’t care about women; their cause has nothing to do with “women’s rights.”  They are pushing a political agenda.  It goes the same with much of the Western Christian churches.  We can raise all the awareness that we want, but they just don’t care.

There is some hope, though it is fleeting.  Among the evangelicals, Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and scattered other remnants, there are those that still do care.  And they must be awakened to move against this great evil and injustice to their fellow followers of Christ.  In addition, we must reach out to our allies outside of Christianity.  Jews, Hindus, Buddhist and so many others are very much victims today of Islamic terror and persecution.  An alliance must be formed.

For Christians, any human suffering is a cry for help, whether they be Christians or otherwise.  But it is especially critical that we heed those who are being martyred for their belief in Christ.  Differences of history, doctrine, ethnicity and nation must be set aside.  We, in the West, are in the greatest position to help, in whatever ways that may be determined.  And before we look the other way, we need to think about when the persecution comes home, and that time will arrive if we are to do nothing now.  Who will be left to save us?


TOPICS: Catholic; Islam; Mainline Protestant; Orthodox Christian
KEYWORDS: 666

1 posted on 05/07/2013 10:21:00 AM PDT by Enza Ferreri
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To: Enza Ferreri

Think globally. Act locally.


2 posted on 05/07/2013 10:30:53 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Enza Ferreri

I have often wondered why the Christian community so often throws their own under the bus. I was speaking w/a brother at Bible study last wee about the Boston bombing. Said how Muslim terrorism is a plague in America. His response was that the far-right is also committing acts of terror. I couldn’t believe what I heard so I asked him for one example. When he couldn’t answer I reminded him about Boston.

Satan has done a remarkable job building wedges between Christians. While he can’t take away our salvation, he can deceive us enough so believers are not united.


3 posted on 05/07/2013 10:31:57 AM PDT by Son-Joshua (son-joshua)
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To: Enza Ferreri
Unfortunately, the persecution is already here at home and the government we have is anti-Christian. I warned at the beginning of the “Arab Spring” that people cheering on democracy should be aware that means mob rule by Muslims. I also warned that Coptic Christians in Egypt were the canary in the coal mine. Until we unload the government here, I'm afraid our concern for Christians and other persecuted faiths will receive no sympathy from Obama & Co.
4 posted on 05/07/2013 10:34:10 AM PDT by trubolotta
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To: Enza Ferreri

There are three ways we can attack it:
1. Prayer
2. money
3. go there

Considering the distance, I choose option 1. I can’t shirk my responsibility to believers and prosthelizing non-believers in my own community by going a few thousand miles away to grab an AK-47 to protect Christians there.

Besides, I take very seriously Paul’s words about “to live is Christ and to die is gain.” Nowadays we hear horror stories from all over the world. Some of them are even true. But what are we really to do when we have to walk past ten people in need to help the one at long distance?

Add to this the American heritage that causes many of us to say, “If your country is ruled by a despot, do what we did in the late 18th century. It’s your home.


5 posted on 05/07/2013 10:34:39 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Enza Ferreri

Thank you for posting this article. Wake the Evangelicals and tell them to put that bigotry in their sub-basement where it belongs. Orthodox and Catholic Christians were here long before Evangelicals were even thought of. And at least in the Muslim world it is they who are enduring the brunt of the suffering. Yes, Evangelicals are suffering in other places (Nigeria— both Catholic & Protestant—Indonesia—same China-all underground churches as opposed to state approved official churches—Iran mostly evangelicals because native denominations do not look to convert Muslims) but they refuse to see what is happening to Christian communities other than their own in the Middle East.


6 posted on 05/07/2013 10:35:10 AM PDT by brooklyn dave (I hope the FEMA camps are comfortable when they come for me)
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To: Enza Ferreri

BTW, when I first became a Christian in 1981, I started including in all my prayers the destruction of the soviet block. I confess that as I prayed I firmly believed it would take a miracle from God and didn’t have all that much faith, but I did it anyway, pretty much every time I prayed.

And then the unimaginable happened. Europe was freed. And who, in 1930 or in the thousand years before that, thought that Israel would ever be a “real” country again?

Interesting how we adapt to the new reality, good or bad.


7 posted on 05/07/2013 10:37:58 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: cuban leaf
4th way: get involved with Voice of the Martyrs. You can subscribe to their free newsletter. Before long, you will be writing letters to prisoners (Prisoner Alert), sending Bibles to underground churches in Iran or China (Bibles Unbound), or getting involved in any of many other ministry opportunities. I strongly recommend everybody to become a member and become involved!
8 posted on 05/07/2013 10:41:27 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: Enza Ferreri
"To get an American Roman Catholic to worry about an Assyrian Iraqi Christian or to get a Presbyterian to concern themselves with a Melkite Catholic in Syria is a near impossible task."

That is not true at all. Many, many Christians of all denominations contribute to organizations like "Voice of the Martyrs" to help these victims of Christian persecution, most of whom are of a different denomination. I know that millions of Christians also include prayers for those Christians persecuted around the world and for the missionaries who are there to minister to them. I believe Christians do more to support their persecuted brothers and sisters around the world than any other "religion". There is only so much we can do although we could probably do more. One can always do more.

9 posted on 05/07/2013 10:46:42 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: Son-Joshua
While he can’t take away our salvation, he can deceive us enough so believers are not united.

That's true. Pope Francis has mentioned the persecution several times, not only in connection with terrorist acts against ME and African Catholic churches, but in connection with the killing of Orthodox and Evangelical faithful.

The big problem is that the churches - all of them - are so PC now that they're afraid to say anything because it might look like (gasp!) a criticism of Islam.

10 posted on 05/07/2013 10:46:46 AM PDT by livius
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To: Son-Joshua
His response was that the far-right is also committing acts of terror.

Without knowing the guy, and not having the slightest idea what he really believes, are you sure he is a true brother?

11 posted on 05/07/2013 11:16:17 AM PDT by Mark17
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To: Enza Ferreri
Christian Indifference to Christian Suffering

After all it IS the ME generation. Most are oblivious to the common threat to ALL CHRISTIANS and ALL MANKIND - islam!

12 posted on 05/07/2013 12:10:00 PM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (It's not "GUN CONTROL"! It's "PEOPLE CONTROL"!)
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To: Enza Ferreri

Because they’re “too buisy” playing (sinning in this case) on their Ipads.


13 posted on 05/07/2013 12:36:07 PM PDT by JSDude1 (Is John Boehner the Neville Chamberlain of American Politics?)
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To: Enza Ferreri

quote “When you walk in a Baptist Church and find tracts that call Rome and the Catholic Church the “whore of Babylon” and the Pope the “anti-Christ” is it really surprising that they have such little concern for the raping of Coptic Christians in Egypt? “

I mentioned that Christians in Lebanon were being firebombed by Israel and my Baptist “friend” informed me they were “nominal Christians”. Since they were being bombed by “god’s people”, that is didn’t seem to matter. Over 1 million Christians were displaced in the Iraq war . Fact is that American and Israel foreign policy always seems hazardous to the health of all Christians.

Also in America, there is never any concern for white people in general, at home or overseas. That is the way America has been brainwashed since the 1950’s. Today is the day Delaware will vote for homosexual “marriage”. Another indicator of who rules the culture. Back in 1775 you had to be a Christian to hold office in Delaware. IF this bill passes, I assume that you will have to repudiate publicly any allegiance to Jesus Christ in order to hold a state job.


14 posted on 05/07/2013 12:55:33 PM PDT by Classiccom
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To: Enza Ferreri; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD; ...

Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body, (Hebrews 13:3)

is still a command for us. They burden my heart though i do not do enough praying for them. Support Voice of the Martyrs and like ministries.

Part of the lack of support is the general lack of sacrificial giving, as well as the so-called “word of faith” theology which rejects such suffering as being part of the life of faith. However, you have the word “others” in Heb. 11:

And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: (Hebrews 11:36-39)


15 posted on 05/07/2013 1:06:17 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: brooklyn dave
Wake the Evangelicals and tell them to put that bigotry in their sub-basement where it belongs. Orthodox and Catholic Christians were here long before Evangelicals

How interesting, 'stop bigotry' then you go on a bigoted rant.

16 posted on 05/07/2013 1:16:44 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: brooklyn dave

In proportion to their numbers i think there are at least as many evangelical ministries working in this area (but not enough concern), and likely are the ones being persecuted the most relative to their numbers.


17 posted on 05/07/2013 1:31:59 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: cuban leaf

Bingo.


18 posted on 05/07/2013 4:23:51 PM PDT by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Enza Ferreri; daniel1212

A very good article for which I think the answers are complex. I don’t think it’s a matter that true Christians do not care. It’s just that there isn’t a forum for broadcasting the news. I know our church (and others we’ve attended) frequently mentions the persecution of Christians in other parts of the world, and it doesn’t matter what denomination or affiliation (even the Catholics are included). But you’re not going to hear it broadcast by the MSM. Instead, what we hear are the tares of the church supporting homosexual or women reproductive rights.

But persecution happens to all who desires to live a godly life. Just this Sunday our pastor talked about another PCA church in our area which the courts ruled that the liberal PCUSA could confiscate their building and their bank account simply because they broke away over the issue of homosexuality. Did anyone hear about that or was it reported? We wouldn’t have know it if the pastor hadn’t mentioned it.


19 posted on 05/07/2013 5:15:50 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: daniel1212; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD
I believe in these last days caution needs to be exercised. The term “Christian” is very loosely applied as I see it. Hebrews 13:3 is indeed a command for us but Paul was talking to those who were following the gospel he preached about those of the same belief. We are not to treat those who “preach any other gospel” the same. “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9 2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Your thoughts?

20 posted on 05/07/2013 5:29:03 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear

I agree the term “Christian” is very loosely applied, and we are not to bless preachers of a false gospel, and charity is to first begin with the household of faith, yet i would basically want to show some mercy to anyone suffering unjusty simply because of what they believe (unless they themselves mean to do harm), which is a form of evangelism toward them, and support freedom of speech in this realm for all.


21 posted on 05/07/2013 5:41:13 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: HarleyD

No, the MSM is interested in looking for Christian militants, not persecuted Christians, but i do think most believers are rather insensitive to the degree of suffering of our brethren, esp. N. Korea. Maybe if we went without food for a couple weeks it would help.


22 posted on 05/07/2013 5:45:26 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: brooklyn dave
Thank you for posting this article. Wake the Evangelicals and tell them to put that bigotry in their sub-basement where it belongs. Orthodox and Catholic Christians were here long before Evangelicals were even thought of. And at least in the Muslim world it is they who are enduring the brunt of the suffering. Yes, Evangelicals are suffering in other places (Nigeria— both Catholic & Protestant—Indonesia—same China-all underground churches as opposed to state approved official churches—Iran mostly evangelicals because native denominations do not look to convert Muslims) but they refuse to see what is happening to Christian communities other than their own in the Middle East.

I don't suppose you've ever considered the theoretical possibility that bigotry isn't limited to Evangelicals but that Catholics and Orthodox have also historically had this problem?

23 posted on 05/07/2013 5:53:15 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Classiccom; wideawake; KC_Lion
quote “When you walk in a Baptist Church and find tracts that call Rome and the Catholic Church the “whore of Babylon” and the Pope the “anti-Christ” is it really surprising that they have such little concern for the raping of Coptic Christians in Egypt? “

I doubt very sincerely that any Baptist church in this day and age is going to have any tracts denouncing the Pope as the "anti-Christ." However, Baptists do believe differently from Catholics. I take it it is now "politically incorrect" to pretend otherwise? Are simple explications of Baptist belief now "bigotry?"

I can state out of personal experience that many Catholic churches have tracts and pamphlets attacking "fundamentalism" and the very idea of Biblical inerrancy. Why doesn't that count as "bigotry"--because Catholics are historically an urban immigrant minority group?

I mentioned that Christians in Lebanon were being firebombed by Israel and my Baptist “friend” informed me they were “nominal Christians”. Since they were being bombed by “god’s people”, that is didn’t seem to matter. Over 1 million Christians were displaced in the Iraq war . Fact is that American and Israel foreign policy always seems hazardous to the health of all Christians.

By "all chrstians" I assume you are excluding Baptists or any other "fundamentalist" Protestant. How charmingly "tolerant" of you.

Also in America, there is never any concern for white people in general, at home or overseas. That is the way America has been brainwashed since the 1950’s.

And now you turn right around after condemning Baptists (who are often unfairly labeled "white racists") and engage in the exact same rhetoric that Baptists are allegedly guilty of. I thought you were accusing Baptists of bigotry. And then you turn right around and commit it? You're a very confused person, aren't you? And btw, how are Semitic chrstians any more "white" than Jews?

Today is the day Delaware will vote for homosexual “marriage”.

What has this got to do with race? Aren't there an awful lot of white homosexuals?

Another indicator of who rules the culture.

And just who "rules the culture?" Why don't you tell us?

Back in 1775 you had to be a Christian to hold office in Delaware. IF this bill passes, I assume that you will have to repudiate publicly any allegiance to Jesus Christ in order to hold a state job.

Also back in 1775 you had to be a Protestant, and back in those days Protestants did think the Pope was the antichrist.

You've just condemned Fundamentalist Protestants and turned around and wished we were living in the days when the people you condemn wouldn't have allowed someone like you to hold political office.

You really are confused, aren't you?

24 posted on 05/07/2013 6:12:44 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: CynicalBear; daniel1212

Oh come now. You’re acting as if what one believed were still important. [/sarcasm] Apparently Catholics and Orthodox don’t think belief is a big deal . . . though if the shoe were on the other foot I don’t know how “ecumenical” they would be.


25 posted on 05/07/2013 6:15:39 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Enza Ferreri
Not for Catholics. We are tuned into this.

Where is God At Times Like These? A meditation in the wake of a violent atrocity [Prayer Ping]

Catholics, Get Ready to Suffer
Mood changes as pope, young people reflect on suffering in Way of CrossM
Following The Truth: Appreciating The Gift Of Suffering (Catholic or Open)
Cardinal Burke: suffering does not rid life of purpose
In historic TV Q&A, Pope Benedict speaks about suffering, comatose persons, persecution (Catholic)
Pope Addresses Suffering in Historic Television Appearance
(Why Am I Catholic?) For Peace While Suffering (A Few Words for Wednesday)
Praying in Sickness and Old Age
The Church as a Hospital
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] The Apostolate of Suffering Redux

Redemptive Suffering
Through church, Jesus ministers to all who are sick in the world
'Amazing Grace for Those Who Suffer'
Pope Benedict asks sick to offer up suffering for priests (Catholic Caucus)
Why Must I Suffer?
On the Advantages of Tribulations by Saint Alphonsus Liguori
Why Be Catholic? 3: Suffering [Ecumenical]
"Love Really Can Make Suffering Bearable": Woman with Spina Bifida
Experts at Euthanasia Symposium Stress Unity, Strategy, and the Triumph of Love over Suffering
Holy Father prays for peace and unity, encourages the suffering to trust in God

Joy-Filled Suffering, Laetare Sunday
Children 'Suffering >From Lack Of Two-Parent Family', Study Finds
Pope Says Euthanasia 'False Solution' to Suffering, Alludes to Comatose Woman's Fate
Excerpts from THE FRUITS OF HIS LOVE - The Value Of Suffering - Mother M. Angelica
Why Not You? (on suffering)
Vicar takes down crucifixion sculpture 'because it's a scary depiction of suffering'
The Value of Suffering in the Life of Christian Perfection
IN BRUSH WITH DEATH, PRIEST SHOWN HELL, PURGATORY, DEGREES OF SUFFERING
Prayers to Saint Agatha [For Those Suffering from Breast Cancer]
REDEMPTIVE SUFFERING(Catholic Caucus or by Invitation Only)

26 posted on 05/07/2013 6:19:26 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Enza Ferreri

It’s hard to get funding for a Crusade these days.


27 posted on 05/07/2013 6:32:59 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: brooklyn dave
Wake the Evangelicals and tell them to put that bigotry in their sub-basement where it belongs.

That seems a bit, shall we say, narrow minded.

28 posted on 05/07/2013 6:34:52 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Classiccom
“When you walk in a Baptist Church and find tracts that call Rome and the Catholic Church the “whore of Babylon” and the Pope the “anti-Christ” is it really surprising that they have such little concern for the raping of Coptic Christians in Egypt? “

Yup; Christians of ALL stripes are PERSECUTED by another 'religion' in this country and overseas as well...



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

29 posted on 05/07/2013 6:38:18 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: svcw

Shhhh...

You were not supposed to notice that.


30 posted on 05/07/2013 6:39:05 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: CynicalBear
If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”

Sure our gospel is different; for it is RESTORED!!

WE are going overseas and gaining a LOT more members there than in this country; where we are scorned, mocked and ridiculed.

--MormonDudeS(When would be a good time...)




31 posted on 05/07/2013 6:41:43 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: brooklyn dave
Thank you for posting this article. Wake the Evangelicals and tell them to put that bigotry in their sub-basement where it belongs. Orthodox and Catholic Christians were here long before Evangelicals were even thought of. And at least in the Muslim world it is they who are enduring the brunt of the suffering. Yes, Evangelicals are suffering in other places (Nigeria— both Catholic & Protestpant—Indonesia—same China-all underground churches as opposed to state approved official churches—Iran mostly evangelicals because native denominations do not look to convert Muslims) but they refuse to see what is happening to Christian communities other than their own in the Middle East.

You are kidding right ? Evangelicals are not the ones that are supporting the islamics that are murdering and persecuting both Jews and Christians . In fact many many Evangelicals (myself included ) provide financial support to ministries like Voice of the Martyrs who do everything they can to help persecuted believers . No really I do hope your kidding when it isn't our churches who are siding and pushing handing more land and more power to islamic terrorist calling themselves palestinians who have done nothing but chase non muslims out of the area .

32 posted on 05/07/2013 8:46:07 PM PDT by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
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To: daniel1212
is still a command for us. They burden my heart though i do not do enough praying for them. Support Voice of the Martyrs and like ministries.

VoM is doing a lot right now in Egypt . I got a nice letter from them last week . I don't have it in front of me to type a word for word but one of the guys was with one of their preachers and led 20 muslims to the Lord while he was there . Said something about some of the muslims are beginning to realize that since the islamics have taken over that something is very very wrong with what they were raised to believe ... anyway letter was very encouraging for the Gospel beginning to spread in Egypt

33 posted on 05/07/2013 9:21:01 PM PDT by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
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To: Classiccom
I mentioned that Christians in Lebanon were being firebombed by Israel and my Baptist “friend” informed me they were “nominal Christians”. Since they were being bombed by “god’s people”, that is didn’t seem to matter. Over 1 million Christians were displaced in the Iraq war . Fact is that American and Israel foreign policy always seems hazardous to the health of all Christians.

Israel is not firebombing Christians . The islamics in Lebanon are the ones that hide behind Christians and launch rockets into Israel . It's the islamics that kidnap and murder them and rape their women .

It was Jews during the last war that saved many Lebanese Christians from being murdered by the Islamics . They took food over the border to them , medical help , arms to protect themselves etc .


Israel is not the enemy . Israel is the only place in the middle east where Christians can live in safety . Israel is not going anywhere and if you read your Bible you would know that . God said he would bring them back into their land in unbelief and he did and he also said that no one was going to uproot them again and no one is going to . Hey you can choose to be on whatever side you want to be on but if you stand against Israel you are on the opposite side of the will of God himself .



34 posted on 05/07/2013 9:37:13 PM PDT by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
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To: Classiccom
I mentioned that Christians in Lebanon were being firebombed by Israel and my Baptist “friend” informed me they were “nominal Christians”

Really??? Let me ask a question...When the 'Christians' in Gaza throw rocks at or are involved in firing rockets at Israel, whose side do you take???

35 posted on 05/08/2013 2:53:53 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool
When the 'Christians' in Gaza throw rocks at or are involved in firing rockets at Israel, whose side do you take???

They DO this?

I never knew!!

Got a story or two to link to?

36 posted on 05/08/2013 3:49:57 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Lera
Thank God for them. And the founder's true story, "Tortured for Christ " (watch ) should read by every true Christian.
37 posted on 05/08/2013 5:42:32 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Elsie

I know not of any, but it is likely many Arab Christians side with the PLA. This story (http://rt.com/news/muslims-christians-tahrir-gaza/) is about Copts and Muslims in union in Egypt after the overthrow of Mubarak, but i think the anti-Israel writer is reading too much into a complex situation, and which has not turned out well for the Copts.


38 posted on 05/08/2013 5:57:47 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Elsie
Got a story or two to link to?

While Palestinian Christians are Christians, they have grown up with the Palestinian identity...While most probably refrain from violence, many support the anililation of Israel...And as most of these 'Christians' are mostly Orthodox and then Catholic, they do not believe Israel has any biblical claim to Palestine...

While there are not many/any real headlines depicting Palestinian Christians attacking Israel, the stories are contained within other articles...

Here's a mention of rock throwing Christians in one article

Here

And here's an interesting part of a book(?) on the youth Palestinian identity and an interesting take from a Palestinian rock throwing Christian...You will have to read a little or scroll down...

Here

There's plenty of info out there...

39 posted on 05/08/2013 7:02:49 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool
Excellent information, Iscool. Most Americans think that all "chrstians" believe just as does Hal Lindsay. American Biblicist chrstianity is different. It is the exception. And Arab and Middle East chrstians are the absolute worst.

How many American chrstians are aware that Israeli chrstians traditionally support and vote for the Israeli Communist Party???

40 posted on 05/08/2013 8:03:38 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Classiccom

Welcome to FR.


41 posted on 05/08/2013 8:16:59 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Iscool

What you say is true of most Christian Palestinians, it is not true of Lebanese Catholics, most of whom are very pro-Western in their political orientation (many of them even looked upon Israel as an ally during the civil war in Lebanon). The Christian Lebanese diaspora is also among the most economically successful immigrant communities in virtually every country that they have settled. In ever way, they are a far cry from their Muslim counterparts.


42 posted on 05/08/2013 11:46:43 AM PDT by ek_hornbeck
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To: ek_hornbeck; Iscool

Thanks for the info.


43 posted on 05/08/2013 2:07:43 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: daniel1212

Thanks for the link .
I had never seen that video .
It’s amazing what he survived .


44 posted on 05/08/2013 4:59:11 PM PDT by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
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To: daniel1212; CynicalBear

Well stated.


45 posted on 05/08/2013 5:14:28 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Zionist Conspirator
How many American chrstians are aware that Israeli chrstians traditionally support and vote for the Israeli Communist Party???

How many American chrstians are aware that Israeli catholics traditionally support and vote for the Israeli Communist Party ..... there fixed it .

and it is not to different from Russian catholics , south AMerican catholics , Cuban catholics , European catholics etc etc that support socialism that leads to communism so there by they support communism themselves .

The one thing they don't support is actually what is written in the Bible and that includes that Israel is Israel and the God of Abraham , Issac and Jacob wants them back in their own land. He said he would bring them back and he has and he said that no one will uproot them again and no one is going to.They don't believe when it says the land has been given to them . They don't believe most of what is written in the Old Testament and since they don't the allegorize much of what is written in the New Testament but boy do they sure preach give your 10% tithe from the Old .


Christians follow Christ and believe what is written in the Scriptures , Catholics follow their pope and believe their tradition .

46 posted on 05/08/2013 5:20:07 PM PDT by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
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To: Lera

I am saying there is a dismissive attitude among evangelicals in regard to Orthodoxy & Catholicism (as if we weren’t real Christians. This dismissiveness stems from theological perspectives rather than a belief that the older denominations are not being persecuted. I have gotten hold of Voice of Martyrs pamphlets and in general have found them very informative—and yes, they are a good organization. But still, most of the concentration is in regard to the persecution of evangelicals—not the older Christian communities orthodox and catholic. Mainline Protestant churches and most of the Catholic hierarchy is very wussy when it has come to islamists—either out of political correctness or plain old fear—except for a few comments by Pope Benedict. Arab Christians of whatever stripe, have a big identity crisis. I think you aware enough of the history that I don’t have to go on and on. They were anxious to be accepted by the larger Muslim Arab community when secular regimes were more in vogue in the region (eg. Baathist regimes in Iraq & Syria quite tolerant of Christians—Egypt under Nasser, Sadat, Mubarak less so because the Copts made up a good sized minority (12% or so), but now that MB Wahhabi inspired regimes are taking over, they are just in plain fear for their survival. For good coverage of persecution of Christians (and other in Islamdom go to Frontpaage Magazine) and a good guy for coverage on Christian capitulation (in USA)to Islamist screeds and hissy fits is Mark Tooley (an evangelical, I believe)


47 posted on 05/13/2013 7:42:21 AM PDT by brooklyn dave (I hope the FEMA camps are comfortable when they come for me)
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