Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic – Conversion Story of David B. Currie

ch network ^ | David B. Currie

[Jvette]

*****The Catholic position is transubstantiation. Therefore, the Eucharist is not a symbol of a higher reality, that takes its name of that “reality” in a “certain manner” of speaking. It is literally the blood and body of Christ. Nor is the Eucharist, in Catholic thought, bread and wine AND the body of Christ.*****

Yep, and every one of those passages fully supports the Catholic belief.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“That is the pattern set and since followed by the Church.”

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The claim of the RCC isn’t that they are creating new doctrine, but that they are the heirs to the doctrines delivered by the Apostles, especially for all the ones allegedly not written down. If one is “developing” brand new doctrine, which even contradicts previous “tradition,” this cannot be something that they received from the Apostles.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“Yep, and every one of those passages fully supports the Catholic belief.”

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You’re more than welcome to type out what your magic glasses reveal to you upon looking at that text. Don’t copy and paste it though, since it’ll still just be the stuff I posted originally. I need to know how it appears through your own goggles.

[daniel1212]

And see here . And the reality that texts were often not written till sometime later does not require or infer that the body that was the instrument and steward of Divine revelation was assuredly and perpetually infallible, else the scribes and the Pharisees would have had perpetual authority.

[daniel1212]

That is the pattern set and since followed by the Church.

There is nothing to object to as regards the church making magisterial judgments, and every one does, Rome being one and which has significant disagreements with the EOs, for one.

The issue is the basis for the veracity of their judgments, that of Scriptural substantiation, which Acts 15 exampled, (Gn. 35:2; Ex. 34:15-16; Ezek. 30:30,31; Gn. 34:1,2,31; Dt. 22:28,29; 2Chron. 21:11; Gn. 9:4; Lv. 7:27; 17:10-14) and which we know by Scripture, or the premise of assured conciliar or papal infallibility as per Rome, which is not what is taught, nor was this necessary for writings to be established as Scripture and saving faith preserved.

[MarkBsnr]

And I am sure you will find for me where those Popes and Bishops were condemned by the Magisterium they were a part of. After all, they were teaching contrary to the long-held tradition of the church.

Sure. The Catechism contains the Catholic beliefs. The fact that certain individual bishops' beliefs are not in there are admonishment enough.

But if you want examples, let us look to Marcion, to Arius, to Tertullian, to Lucifer Calaritanus, to Macedonius I, to Eutechys, to Mani, to Constantine the Armenian, to Priscillian, to Valentinus, to Audius, to Donatus Magnus, to Montanus, to Pelagius, to Henry of Lausanne, to Otto Jansen, to Marie Paule Giguère, to Leonard Feeney, and a whole raft of other bishops and theologians. Expressly and in detail, condemned as heretical by the Church.

Unfortunately, this isn’t the first time I’ve seen you resort to pathetically weak arguments followed up with an Ad-hom.

Nice to see your rerun tag.

[MarkBsnr]

The claim of the RCC isn’t that they are creating new doctrine, but that they are the heirs to the doctrines delivered by the Apostles, especially for all the ones allegedly not written down. If one is “developing” brand new doctrine, which even contradicts previous “tradition,” this cannot be something that they received from the Apostles.

I am sure that you follow word for word exactly the model of church development in Acts. Or are you making it all up as you go along?

[Elsie]

They go into a room and close the door.

And then the MAJORITY decides.

That's how I 'understand' it.

If you have another way, that does not involve entrails or tea leaves, let's hear it.

[Elsie]

OUR oven sets off the alarm just USING it!

[Elsie]

At no time did the Apostles teach that circumcision was required for salvation before deciding that it was not required for salvation.

OH?

JESUS, Himself TAUGHT it to some folks: reply #33.

John 6 was mentioned a lot in this thread, but the FACTS presented in reply #33 have not been addressed.

Nor the REQUIREMENTS found in ACTS chapter 15.

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Of the RCC today, they could recycle the old Virginia Slims slogan: You've come a LONG way, baby!

[NYer]

As a former weekly RC (who had became born again while still a Catholic) and fundamental Baptist, i am skeptical of this man's testimony.

Then you should have no problem reading his book for his full testimony.

[Elsie]

The Holy Spirit led them to the answer.

Gee...

I wonder if He knew what JESUS said in John 6:28-29?

[Elsie]

MEGO

[Elsie]

I am sure that you follow word for word exactly the model of church development in Acts.

Let's see if ANYONE does!

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Acts 15

The Council at Jerusalem

 ¹ Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” ² This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. ³ The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. ⁴ When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

 ⁵ Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

 ⁶ The apostles and elders met to consider this question. ⁷ After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. ⁸ God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. ⁹ He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. ¹⁰ Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? ¹¹ No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

 ¹² The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. ¹³ When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. ¹⁴ Simon^[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. ¹⁵ The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

 ¹⁶ “‘After this I will return
   and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
   and I will restore it,
¹⁷ that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
   even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’^[b]—
 ¹⁸ things known from long ago.^[c]

 ¹⁹ “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. ²⁰ Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. ²¹ For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers

 ²² Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. ²³ With them they sent the following letter:

   The apostles and elders, your brothers,

   To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

   Greetings.

 ²⁴ We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. ²⁵ So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— ²⁶ men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. ²⁷ Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. ²⁸ It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: ²⁹ You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

   Farewell.

 ³⁰ So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. ³¹ The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. ³² Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. ³³ After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. ^{[34] [d] 35} But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.

Disagreement Between Paul and Barnabas

 ³⁶ Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” ³⁷ Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, ³⁸ but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. ³⁹ They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, ⁴⁰ but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. ⁴¹ He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

[MarkBsnr]

They go into a room and close the door.

And then the MAJORITY decides. That's how I 'understand' it. If you have another way, that does not involve entrails or tea leaves, let's hear it.

I don't have another way. I don't have their way. They do as we believe the Holy Spirit directs. More than that, I cannot say.

[MarkBsnr]

Appreciate the posting.

Just remember the following:

24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing.

The Church takes upon itself the authorization given to it by Jesus to make the decisions that it does. Nobody else - no alter churches or competing denominations - can make those decisions. I congratulate you on choosing a very pertinent verse. You very often do.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“I am sure that you follow word for word exactly the model of church development in Acts. Or are you making it all up as you go along?”

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I’m not sure what you mean. Just so you know, though, in Acts 15 James presides over the church council and makes the decision (supposedly Peter’s job), so you should stay away from Acts, if I were you.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“But if you want examples,”

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It’s pretty disturbing for you to compare Augustine, Theodoret and Pope Gelasius to well known heretics. You also still failed to demonstrate how just those three examples were actually in rebellion to the teachings of the Magisterium they were heading, even though I asked you to. I’m guessing you can’t.

[presently no screen name]

Jesus prayed to His Father that we may be One, and His people, will once again be “One Holy and Apostolic Catholic Church”. John 17:21

That's deception. Learn the **warning of adding or changing God's Word which catholicism, mormonism, islamism is know for. These counterfeits high jack God's Word to produce deception/man-made teachings.

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art 'in Me', and 'I in thee', that they also may be 'ONE IN US': that the world may believe that thou hast sent Me.

To be 'in-Christ', to be filled w/His Spirit.

**For I testify unto every man that heareth the Words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19)

God clearly directed 'every Word' and will not tolerate man's meddling with it. They are 'His Words.'

[Elsie]

So, in actuality, they could be dancing around naked. We just don’t know.