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How to Share the Gospel with Gays, and Someone Who is About to Kill Her Baby
World View Weekend ^ | May 13, 2013 | Ray Comfort

Posted on 05/14/2013 3:08:38 PM PDT by rhema

I was flying from Los Angeles to Miami when I found myself sitting next to two women. Sarah was sitting closest to me. She was 29, inappropriately dressed, with a ring through her nose, and she wasn’t the friendliest person I have sat next to on a plane. After we took off I couldn’t help but notice that her friend kept kissing her on the cheek, holding her hand, and rubbing her shoulder. They were gay, and that little revelation lifted my planned witnessing encounter up a big notch on the awkward-meter. I really didn’t want an angry gay couple complaining to the airline (and the media) that I was a homophobic fundamentalist, imposing my hate-speech by saying that they were going to Hell because they were gay.

I waited until she had eaten, finished her movie, and simply said, “Sarah. I have a question for you. Do you think there’s an afterlife?” She wasn’t sure, so I asked, “If Heaven exists, are you going there? Are you a good person?” She predictably said she was, so I took her through three of the Ten Commandments—had she lied, stolen, and taken God’s name in vain? She had broken all three, so we then looked at whether or not she would be guilty on Judgment Day and whether she would go to Heaven or Hell. I then shared the cross, and the necessity for repentance and faith in Jesus. I didn’t mention her sexual orientation; I didn’t need to nor did I want to. I simply shared the moral Law (the Ten Commandments)—because the Bible says that the Law was “made” for homosexuals—see 1 Timothy 1:8-10. She wasn’t offended, and I kept her friendship and stayed out of jail.

Trying to witness to someone who is about to take the life of her child is also high on the awkward list. It’s awkward, mainly because the mind of this person is preoccupied with what she is about to do and therefore it’s difficult to get her attention. However, if she would stop and talk I would handle the situation similarly to my conversation with Sarah. The reason for that is that I don’t want to reform people. I didn’t want Sarah to stop being gay and end up in Hell for her lying, theft and blasphemy. I don’t want to just stop a woman from killing her child, and have her go to Hell for her other sins. With God’s help I want to see more than a change of mind. I want to see a change of heart.

Contrary to popular opinion, most who take the life of their child through abortion believe in God. Even the staunchest fundamentalist atheist believes in God. I know because I have an inside source. I have a “Whistle-blower.”

“For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools…” (Romans 1:20-22).

Those who abort the life of their children are “idolaters,” illustrated in the fact that their god condones the taking of a human life. They have no fear of God before their eyes. So your agenda, with the help of God, is to stir her God-given conscience to do its duty and put the fear of God within her, and you can do that, as I did with Sarah and the gay issue, without even mentioning the elephant in the room—the impending abortion. To put the fear of God in someone means that you will have to stay with the biblical gospel. Do not use the “God has a wonderful plan” message because it is both unbiblical and will do more damage than good. If you really believe that that message is biblical, think for a few moments about how the first eleven disciples were murdered for their faith. If you know Church history, you will know that the foundation of the Church is founded in the blood of the saints. Jesus warned that people would kill Christians thinking that they are doing God a favor.

Imagine you have been asked to preach the gospel to 1,000 people on the 100th floor of the World Trade Center the night before 9/11. You know that within 24 hours every person looking at you will die a death so horrific it defies human imagination. Many will be burned alive. Others will jump 100 stories to their deaths on the unforgiving sidewalks of New York. Others will fall with the building and be so crushed that their bodies will never be recovered. What are you going to tell them—that God has a wonderful plan for their lives? You can’t say that to people who are about to die! Instead you would soberly tell them that it’s appointed to man once to die and after this, the judgment. You would tell them that God is holy, that He will judge them by His perfect Law, that Hell is very real and that they desperately need a Savior. You would tell them that they could die within 24 hours, and plead with them to repent and trust alone in Jesus. If you have to change the message you normally preach, then you are not preaching the biblical gospel. Why would you have a different message for people who are walking the streets of this world, and are about to die? Every day 150,000 people throughout this world pass into death, many of whom will die in terrible ways—through horrific car accidents and through the suffering of cancer.

Think of David and Nathan the prophet. David had coveted his neighbor’s wife, stolen her, lived a lie, committed adultery and murdered her husband. He had violated the Ten Commandments but he wasn’t too worried. His conscience wasn’t doing its duty. God had commissioned Nathan to expose the king’s terrible sin. So what did Nathan say? Did he say, “David, God has a wonderful plan for your life”? What has that got to do with anything? David was a criminal, and Nathan was there to expose his crimes, not speak of some wonderful plan. The faithful preacher began in the natural realm with a story about the theft and slaughter of a poor man’s lamb, and when David became indignant about that man’s sin, Nathan said, “YOU are that man. Why have you despised the Commandment of the Lord!” And that’s when David cried, “I have sinned against God.” Think for a moment as to whether or not the wonderful plan message could never have elicited that response. Why should it? It doesn’t bring any knowledge of sin or the fear of God. It doesn’t stir the conscience. But the Law does. It made David tremble. The Law stirred the king’s seared conscience so that it would do its God-given duty, and we can see its result in the penitent prayer of Psalm 51. And that’s what we must do with those who see nothing wrong with the taking of the life of their unborn child. Their terrible sin must be made personal so that the fear of the Lord causes them to depart from it. The instant someone is converted to Jesus Christ they know that means no more lying, stealing, lust, pornography, homosexuality, fornication, adultery, idolatry and no murdering of your own children.

In Mark 10:17 we are told of the story of the rich young ruler who ran to Jesus, kneeled down and said, “Good master. What must I do to inherit eternal life?” He ran (was earnest), he kneeled down (he was humble), and he asked the question we so wish the world would ask, “What must I do to inherit eternal life?” But instead of leading him in a sinner’s prayer, Jesus reproved him of his use of the word “good.” Proverbs 20:6 says, “Most men will proclaim each his own goodness,” and they certainly do. Ask anyone if they think they are a good person and most will say that they are. So Jesus used the Ten Commandments to bring the knowledge of sin to show him that he wasn’t good at all. He, like Nathan, made sin personal. Paul did this in Romans 2 when he said, “You who say you shall not steal; do YOU steal? You who say you shall not commit adultery, do YOU commit adultery?” Such faithful talk will cause the sinner to tremble as Felix trembled when Paul reasoned with him—not about some wonderful plan, but of “sin, temperance and judgment.”

The stirring of the dormant conscience coupled with a knowledge that a holy God will hold her accountable should be enough to put the fear of God within someone who is about to commit the murder of her own offspring. May God help us to be faithful, courageous, and give us wisdom and help us to stop such slaughter.

You can learn how to do this through free resources on www.livingwaters.com


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: abortion; gospel; homosexualagenda; prolife
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1 posted on 05/14/2013 3:08:38 PM PDT by rhema
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To: rhema

Why would you have a different message for people who are walking the streets of this world, and are about to die?
***Jesus had a message for the thief on the cross who was dying next to Him. It did not involve as much conviction of sin as it did the love of God.


2 posted on 05/14/2013 3:34:26 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: rhema

Ping


3 posted on 05/14/2013 3:54:57 PM PDT by butterdezillion (,)
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To: Kevmo
It did not involve as much conviction of sin as it did the love of God.

I believe the thief knew he was a sinner. Seems like the lady thinks she is good and had to be shown otherwise... Are you a good person?” She predictably said she was, so I took her through three of the Ten Commandments—.

4 posted on 05/14/2013 4:09:06 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Kevmo

Might we assume you are a fan of Rob Bell?


5 posted on 05/14/2013 4:16:57 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

Nope. Can’t say I’ve heard of him off the top of my head. Who is he and why is it significant?


6 posted on 05/14/2013 5:23:02 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo
Jesus had a message for the thief on the cross who was dying next to Him. It did not involve as much conviction of sin as it did the love of God.

Consider the context and the most probable sequence of events: The thief was on a cross, and he got there by sinning. He knew he wasn't coming down from that cross alive, because no one ever had. Concerned about his eternal destiny, it's intuitive he had pieced together what the Scriptures said of the Messiah (the Christ), because the debate of the week in Jerusalem centered on the person of Jesus. So the thief had already repented, and engaged the only person who could save him.

7 posted on 05/14/2013 5:30:15 PM PDT by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
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To: presently no screen name

Good point. Most of the people I’ve met know they aren’t perfect. They’ve heard the stuff about sin and it turns them off. But they don’t mind hearing about a God Who loves them.

Here’s an illustration. I’m going to introduce you to a friend, PresentlyHasScreenName. PHSN thinks you’re a slimeball because you trespass on his property every time you buy an ice cream cone, but he’s forgiven you and would like to meet you. Now, does PHSN come off as kind hearted or judgemental? Would you want to meet him? Would you have a better view of him if you were just told that knows a lot about you and is crazy about you?

Jesus said he came not to judge (John 3:17), so if we focus on what would be received as good news, people will listen. It’s good news to hear that Jesus was God Himself, not just some other prophet or “great man” or illustrious holy man. Conviction of sin is the Holy Spirit’s job, not necessarily ours.


8 posted on 05/14/2013 5:30:54 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo

Bell is one of those emergent-type heretics.

I do think that Jesus met people where they were at, so to speak. But I agree about the focus needing to be on our sinful state, and inability to be “good enough” to get to heaven on our own merit.

Comfort’s short movie “180” is definitely worth watching. Just do a search and you can watch it online, just 30 minutes long.


9 posted on 05/14/2013 5:38:32 PM PDT by Abigail Adams
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To: Kevmo

Now tell me who was judging here - I’d like to see where you got that from? Do you think Ray did?

Maybe ask your friend that you have walking on my property and see if he knows.


10 posted on 05/14/2013 5:40:40 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Abigail Adams

But I agree about the focus needing to be on our sinful state, and inability to be “good enough” to get to heaven on our own merit.
***After years of preaching the gospel, I have come to realize that there are tons of christians eager to point out that aspect. I don’t need to, because any further exposure to christianity will bring that out to someone who hears the gospel. So I can do what Jesus did and focus on the essentials, like agape love.


11 posted on 05/14/2013 5:42:47 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: presently no screen name

I don’t understand what you’re getting at. One question I can answer is, yes, I do think Ray was judging here. He asked a question in his article about whether we’d change the message to people facing their deaths, and it brought to mind what Jesus said to someone facing his death, right alongside of Jesus. It strikes me as significant.


12 posted on 05/14/2013 5:45:52 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Salvavida
The thief was on a cross, and he got there by sinning.

You're setting yourself up for a very rapid dismissal with this statement if you're attempting to sway nonbelievers.

Who else was on a cross? If being on a cross was de facto evidence of sinning, then what was Jesus Christ?

You've just lost that nonbeliever because the two plausible answers to that question are either that being on a cross is not evidence of sinning, or Jesus Christ was a sinner.

You'll appear to be illogical or even dishonest, unfairly yes, but that is the way nonbelievers will take that statement.

13 posted on 05/14/2013 5:51:48 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Kevmo
I don’t understand what you’re getting at.

Why not? You are the one who brought up judging, not me. What's not to get?

One question I can answer is, yes, I do think Ray was judging here.

Well you are wrong. Asking a question is not judging. I'm glad he was the one sitting next to this lady and not you.

14 posted on 05/14/2013 5:56:40 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

You should consider adding more bran to your diet.


15 posted on 05/14/2013 6:01:08 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo

You should consider getting into God’s Word.


16 posted on 05/14/2013 6:06:06 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

I posted directly from God’s word.

What is your justification for going against the admonition “judge not, lest ye be judged”? And John 3:17 where Jesus said He came not to judge?

Instead you’re jumping straight to insults of a brother in Christ. Maybe you should spend more time in God’s word yourself.


17 posted on 05/14/2013 6:14:39 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo

What do you make of Matthew 23?


18 posted on 05/14/2013 6:27:24 PM PDT by Abigail Adams
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To: Abigail Adams

The 7 woes.

Verse 4: They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
***Sounds a little bit like what we’ve been talking about. Jesus’s yoke is not heavy. Trying to get someone to acknowledge sinfulness before telling them about a loving God is a heavy load. I don’t think He intended for us to carry it, it is the Holy Spirit’s job to convict of sin. Placing such a heavy, cumbersome load onto others is a sign of hypocrisy, which Jesus isn’t very fond of. So, thanks for bringing up that passage in scripture.


19 posted on 05/14/2013 6:34:41 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo

I would say that we can’t understand the depth of God’s love for us unless we know that we are separated from a holy God by our sin, and know that despite our wretched sinfulness, God loved us so much that he gave his Son to pay the penalty for our sins on the cross.

Watch the 180 movie and see what effect knowledge of sin can have on people.


20 posted on 05/14/2013 6:38:56 PM PDT by Abigail Adams
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To: Abigail Adams

unless we know that we are separated from a holy God by our sin
***Whose job is it to convict someone of sin?


21 posted on 05/14/2013 6:43:07 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: rhema

What do you tell to an extreme Liberal who is in the hospital after a suicide attempt (and repeated attempts in hospital)and has asked his wife to hire an attorney to fight mental health committment?

He says he does not believe in God and is close to death even without suicide.


22 posted on 05/14/2013 6:43:58 PM PDT by ADSUM
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To: Kevmo; metmom; boatbums; svcw
Jesus had a message for the thief on the cross who was dying next to Him. It did not involve as much conviction of sin as it did the love of God.

Because the conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment (Jn. 16:9) was already there: the man confessed that he was getting what he was judged and sentenced for, in contrast to Jesus Christ the righteous, and thus he asked for mercy, which finds its appreciation in the light of justice.

The hardest labor of evangelists as instruments of the Holy Spirit is to bring souls to be convicted of sin, righteousness and judgment. Once souls realizes they are drowning, it is easy to tell them how the life preserver works and to get them to use it.

23 posted on 05/14/2013 7:15:00 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Kevmo
PHSN thinks you’re a slimeball because you trespass on his property every time you buy an ice cream cone, but he’s forgiven you and would like to meet you. Now, does PHSN come off as kind hearted or judgemental? Would you want to meet him? Would you have a better view of him if you were just told that knows a lot about you and is crazy about you?

False analogy, as souls are not forgiven before repentance and faith, but are enemies of God in need of salvation. Yes, God loves them but is not crazy about their condition, and thus He convicts them of sin and their need for salvation on His expense and credit. Read sermons in Acts 2, 10, 13.

Jesus said he came not to judge

Out of context. That refers to coming as the judge, which Peter and Paul warned souls of in persuading them to repent, while Jesus manifested judged souls in declaring they were sinners, (Mt. 23) and thus He said that the world hateth me, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil. (John 7:7)

24 posted on 05/14/2013 7:23:01 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

Because the conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment (Jn. 16:9) was already there.
***And almost every person to whom I’ve preached the gospel has acknowledged they are not perfect. Only one said she was perfect, without sin. It was obvious she was completely deluded. For all others, the Holy Spirit has already begun that task. We get the distinct honor of telling them that God loves them. They can figure it out for themselves that they have fallen short and need a savior. There certainly are plenty of believers around who are eager to bring up unbelievers’ sinful state.

Also, every single person to whom I’ve preached has already heard that Jesus died for their sins. They don’t care because they don’t know that He is God. The vast majority of people I preach to have not heard that Jesus was put to death because He claimed to be God Himself.

The situation that the thief on the cross was in is the same situation that the vast majority of nonbelievers find themselves in today.


25 posted on 05/14/2013 7:23:48 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo
But I agree about the focus needing to be on our sinful state, and inability to be “good enough” to get to heaven on our own merit. After years of preaching the gospel, I have come to realize that there are tons of christians eager to point out that aspect. I don’t need to, because any further exposure to christianity will bring that out to someone who hears the gospel. So I can do what Jesus did and focus on the essentials, like agape love.

You have a very selective understanding of Jesus then, as His love includes telling souls they are sinners, and you are not preaching the gospel if you do not preach of sin, righteousness and judgment, and call souls to repentance. The Lord and apostles did so and warned souls of the consequences of impenitence, and thus the reaction they saw. Again, read all of Scripture, and such messages as seen in Acts 2, 10, 13.

26 posted on 05/14/2013 7:28:21 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

False analogy, as souls are not forgiven before repentance and faith,
***While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.


27 posted on 05/14/2013 7:29:36 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo
Trying to get someone to acknowledge sinfulness before telling them about a loving God is a heavy load. I don’t think He intended for us to carry it, it is the Holy Spirit’s job to convict of sin.

This is a false dilemma. Loving God and telling souls how they have offended Him are not two different thing, and in Scripture what you see is majoring on judgment and then grace. Peter in Acts 2 tells the hearers that tongues were a manifestation of God shed, but which was a foreboding of judgment to come, and that they crucified Christ, their own Messiah and God's Son, even if in ignorance, and that Christ will make them His footstool, which is definitely not what you want to be. Then they cry, "Men, brethren, what must we do?"

28 posted on 05/14/2013 7:36:06 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: ADSUM

You show sympathy of his condition, but prayerfully work to compassionately but surely bring out the xrays of his soul and thus need for salvation, and what God has done for him.


29 posted on 05/14/2013 7:38:52 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Kevmo

It is the law that shows us our sin. Romans 3:20: “because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.”

Most of the people I talk to don’t know that they are sinners, or that they can’t get to heaven by trying to be good.


30 posted on 05/14/2013 7:38:57 PM PDT by Abigail Adams
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To: daniel1212

False analogy, as souls are not forgiven before repentance and faith
***While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

thus He convicts them of sin
***Exactly. He does it. We don’t have to.

Jesus said he came not to judge — Out of context
***The context is Jesus talking to Nicodemus, right after saying that he needed to be born again and the famous “For God so loved the world”... In that passage He says

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
***See, they’re condemned already. And notice that Jesus doesn’t focus on telling Nicodemus about his sins. Again, He focuses on love.


31 posted on 05/14/2013 7:43:00 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: daniel1212

you are not preaching the gospel if you do not preach of sin, righteousness and judgment, and call souls to repentance
***Prove it. We’ve been talking about the thief on the cross, and Nicodemus. Both famous passages skip that part but focus on God’s love.


32 posted on 05/14/2013 7:44:47 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Abigail Adams

Ask them if they think they’re perfect. Almost all people I have talked to know they ain’t. They already know what that means with respect to God. What they do not know is that Jesus is God Himself.


33 posted on 05/14/2013 7:47:09 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: ADSUM

What a sad situation! Just tell him the truth, sharing the gospel as timing and conversation permits. He may say he doesn’t believe in God, but anyone can change and become saved. Be a friend, pray for him, and share the truth.

You might find this helpful: http://deeptruths.com/bible-basics/salvation.html


34 posted on 05/14/2013 7:49:58 PM PDT by Abigail Adams
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To: daniel1212

This is a false dilemma. [Telling them about a] Loving God and telling souls how they have offended Him are not two different thing,
***Yes they are. People already know the one, it makes them sick to hear it — they no longer listen. So, since they already know, take the context of the thief on the cross and Nicodemus and focus on the love of God. Let the Holy Spirit convict them of sin, righteousness and judgement because that is His job.


35 posted on 05/14/2013 7:51:22 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo; presently no screen name
And almost every person to whom I’ve preached the gospel has acknowledged they are not perfect. We get the distinct honor of telling them that God loves them. They can figure it out for themselves that they have fallen short and need a savior.

Honestly, what in the world are you reading, or with what glasses? The Bible certainly does not just tell souls God loves them and leave them to figure out for themselves that they have fallen short and need a savior!

It is not enough to know you fall short, but must realize where this places you, as most believe their good deeds versus bad deeds balance sheet, with some ambiguous idea of mercy, will judge them fit to Heaven, rather than coming to Christ as damned sinners who are destitute of any merit, and who turn in their heart to Christ, wanting a new life with Him.

The vast majority of people I preach to have not heard that Jesus was put to death because He claimed to be God Himself.

That was the charge used to do so, being blind to Him being God, but they did so bcz they hated Him for He convicted them of sin. In addition, He did not simply die to show God's love, but because that is the only way only way damned+destitute sinners can be saved.

The situation that the thief on the cross was in is the same situation that the vast majority of nonbelievers find themselves in today.

That is honestly absurd, unless perhaps you are in some prison, as very very very few souls are convicted of their need for salvation as damned+destitute sinners, being under the burden of sin, as we see in Acts 2, and 16.

In fact a major error today is that preaching a message that targets a suicidal jailer convicted of his need for salvation, and who thus cries out, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

Jesus testified to the world that the things it did were evil, as in warning, "woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep." (Luke 6:24-25) For in contrast, "The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit." (Psalms 34:18)

36 posted on 05/14/2013 7:59:17 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Kevmo
False analogy, as souls are not forgiven before repentance and faith,

False analogy, as souls are not forgiven before repentance and faith, ***While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Your theology is also very superficial, as the fact that Christ died for us does not mean souls are already forgiven, but they must repent and believe in order to be so.

The NT does not just preach that God love them, nor that they are already forgiven because of what Christ did, but tells souls they are damned+destitute and in need of salvation, which is why convicted souls cried out for how.

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (Acts 2:23)

For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:34-36)

And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. (Acts 10:42)

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you. (Acts 13:39-41)

And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: (Acts 14:15)

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (Acts 17:30)

And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee. (Acts 24:25)

37 posted on 05/14/2013 8:09:13 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

Honestly, what in the world are you reading, or with what glasses? The Bible certainly does not just tell souls God loves them and leave them to figure out for themselves that they have fallen short and need a savior!
***I heard a statistic that in America, 99.5% of us have heard of Jesus, and that He died for our sins. That part of the bible’s message has already gotten through. The Holy Spirit’s job is to convict of sin and He has done that already. People don’t need to hear what they’ve already heard. They need to hear what they have not heard.


38 posted on 05/14/2013 8:10:41 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: daniel1212

It is not enough to know you fall short, but must realize where this places you, as most believe their good deeds versus bad deeds balance sheet, with some ambiguous idea of mercy, will judge them fit to Heaven, rather than coming to Christ as damned sinners who are destitute of any merit, and who turn in their heart to Christ, wanting a new life with Him.
***Then why did Christ not focus on this with Nicodemus and the thief on the cross? Because they already knew. The vast majority of americans already know that part of the message.


39 posted on 05/14/2013 8:13:14 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: daniel1212

The vast majority of people I preach to have not heard that Jesus was put to death because He claimed to be God Himself.

That was the charge used to do so, being blind to Him being God, but they did so bcz they hated Him for He convicted them of sin. In addition, He did not simply die to show God’s love, but because that is the only way only way damned+destitute sinners can be saved.
***Non sequitur. It does not address the point I made, just glides over it and goes into something else.


40 posted on 05/14/2013 8:15:04 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: daniel1212

Kevmo: The situation that the thief on the cross was in is the same situation that the vast majority of nonbelievers find themselves in today.

Daniel: That is honestly absurd,
***No it is not absurd. ALL of us are going to die. Most of us have already acknowledged we’re not perfect.

unless perhaps you are in some prison, as very very very few souls are convicted of their need for salvation as damned+destitute sinners, being under the burden of sin, as we see in Acts 2, and 16.
***I can see you don’t like the analogy, but I’m not the one who put it there. God did.

In fact a major error today is that preaching a message that targets a suicidal jailer convicted of his need for salvation,
***See, the Holy Spirit did His job of convicting the man. Peter didn’t have to.

and who thus cries out, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

Jesus testified to the world that the things it did were evil, as in warning, “woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.” (Luke 6:24-25) For in contrast, “The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.” (Psalms 34:18)
***Again, non sequitur. If these people already know Jesus died for their sins and that they’re not perfect, then we need to focus on God’s love for them. Pretty simple.


41 posted on 05/14/2013 8:19:07 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: daniel1212

Your theology is also very superficial, as the fact that Christ died for us does not mean souls are already forgiven, but they must repent and believe in order to be so.
***You are arguing against something which I have not said, making it a straw argument. Perhaps it is your theology which is superficial.

The NT does not just preach that God love them, nor that they are already forgiven because of what Christ did, but tells souls they are damned+destitute and in need of salvation, which is why convicted souls cried out for how.
***Again, you’re arguing against stuff I have not said, making it yet another straw argument. When you get around to arguing what I ACTually said, then we can have a reasonable discussion.


42 posted on 05/14/2013 8:22:43 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo
False analogy, as souls are not forgiven before repentance and faith ***While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Again, this does not mean they are already forgiven, thus the command, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

thus He convicts them of sin ***Exactly. He does it. We don’t have to.

Nowhere does Scripture say or teach this, but instead it abundantly shows that the Holy Spirit normatively instrumentally uses men to do so, even if He is not restricted to that means.

Thus the positive reaction of souls to apostolic preaching, as well as the negative reaction, such as that of Felix mentioned before, And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee. (Acts 24:25)

Jesus said he came not to judge — Out of context ***The context is Jesus talking to Nicodemus, right after saying that he needed to be born again and the famous “For God so loved the world”... In that passage He says

And which is just what i said, that Jesus mission was not to come to sentence the world as He will when all His enemies are made His foostool, but to save:

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:17)

But which most manifestly did not mean He did not judge in the sense of telling souls they were specific sinners, which is what you erroneous protest against, nor is that what Mt. 7:1 preclude, and in if it did, then it would leave you guilty of judging souls for judging!

Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. (Matthew 11:20-21)

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. (Matthew 23:25-26)

And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: (Mark 9:42-45)

See, they’re condemned already. And notice that Jesus doesn’t focus on telling Nicodemus about his sins. Again, He focuses on love.

You are highly selective and have a very unbalanced message along with perverse views. They are condemned because rejecting Jesus means you love sin over Him, as 3:19-22 explains, and v. 36 warns "the wrath of God abideth on him," and rather than not preaching on sin, instead He stated, "The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil." (John 7:7)

And I have given you and can give you far more texts which focus on warning lost souls of judgment then telling them God loves them.

43 posted on 05/14/2013 8:37:51 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

Again, this does not mean they are already forgiven,
***Maybe it does. God extended His forgiveness on the cross, once for all. Remission of sins takes place when we repent. But just because a person doesn’t repent, that doesn’t mean they are unforgiven by God. They just have not accepted it, and that spiritual condition will send them to hell if they don’t do something about it. At any rate, we are talking around the issue.


44 posted on 05/14/2013 8:42:48 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo
you are not preaching the gospel if you do not preach of sin, righteousness and judgment, and call souls to repentance ***Prove it. We’ve been talking about the thief on the cross, and Nicodemus. Both famous passages skip that part but focus on God’s love.

I have proved it, if you cared to look up the sermons in which the gospel is preached, while Jn. 3 also preaches of sin, righteousness and judgment, and call souls to repentance, as teaches calls those who reject Christ love sin over Him who is righteous, and upon whom the wrath of God abides, while those who believe are showing repentance. And other messages are to a wider audience and give a fuller description of the gospel preaching. The things you miss!

45 posted on 05/14/2013 8:42:52 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

thus He convicts them of sin ***Exactly. He does it. We don’t have to.

Daniel:
Nowhere does Scripture say or teach this, but instead it abundantly shows that the Holy Spirit normatively instrumentally uses men to do so, even if He is not restricted to that means.
***Fine, then. Produce the scriptures that proves this point and I’ll be on my way.


46 posted on 05/14/2013 8:44:21 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: daniel1212

And which is just what i said, that Jesus mission was not to come to sentence the world as He will when all His enemies are made His foostool, but to save: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:17)
***You’re saying what I said, you’re talking in circles.

But which most manifestly did not mean He did not judge in the sense of telling souls they were specific sinners, which is what you erroneous protest against,
***nope, wrong. He Himself came to save rather than condemn. He admonishes us not to judge. There’s a reason for that. Americans already know they’re not perfect. The Holy Spirit has already done His job of convicting of sin. So we don’t have to.

nor is that what Mt. 7:1 preclude, and in if it did, then it would leave you guilty of judging souls for judging!
***Non sequitur.


47 posted on 05/14/2013 8:49:11 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo
This is a false dilemma. [Telling them about a] Loving God and telling souls how they have offended Him are not two different thing, ***Yes they are. People already know the one, it makes them sick to hear it — they no longer listen. So, since they already know, take the context of the thief on the cross and Nicodemus and focus on the love of God. Let the Holy Spirit convict them of sin, righteousness and judgement because that is His job.

Wrong wrong wrong. As has been shown you, the Holy Spirit normatively uses people to convict them of sin, righteousness and judgement, and does not simply focus on the love of God to the complacent masses, which most are in the West, not some desperate honest convicted criminal with hours to live! To which masses Jesus warned they would hunger and weep, and warned the impenitent of damnation, as did the apostles whom you presume to correct.

48 posted on 05/14/2013 8:49:22 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

I have proved it, if you cared to look up the sermons in which the gospel is preached, while Jn. 3 also preaches of sin, righteousness and judgment
***Show me. Here’s John 3. Point out where it commands us that we have to tell nonbelievers that they are sinners.

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[e] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[f] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”[g]

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

John Testifies Again About Jesus

22 After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized. 23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were coming and being baptized. 24 (This was before John was put in prison.) 25 An argument developed between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of ceremonial washing. 26 They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”

27 To this John replied, “A person can receive only what is given them from heaven. 28 You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Messiah but am sent ahead of him.’ 29 The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30 He must become greater; I must become less.”[h]

31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. 33 Whoever has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God[i] gives the Spirit without limit. 35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.


49 posted on 05/14/2013 8:53:43 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: daniel1212

Wrong wrong wrong. As has been shown you, the Holy Spirit normatively uses people to convict them of sin,
***Then it should be easy for you to come up with bible verses that explicitly delineate this requirement for us to convict nonbelievers of sin.


50 posted on 05/14/2013 8:55:02 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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