Skip to comments.Fatima, Freemasonry, Vatican II and 1960
Posted on 05/22/2013 12:57:42 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
Freemasonry, Vatican II and 1960
By John Salza
Consecration Now Conference
Rome, May 13, 2011
There is a body of clear and compelling testimony from the likes of Cardinal Pacelli (future Pope Pius XII), Fr. Fuentes, Fr. Alonso, Fr. Schweigl ,Cardinal Oddi, Cardinal Ciappi, Fr. Malachi Martin, and even Cardinal Ratzinger (the future pope Benedict XVI) that the Third Secret of Fatima, not yet revealed by the Vatican, predicts a spiritual crisis in the bosom of the Church. In this presentation, I am going to elaborate on this theme, by demonstrating that this crisis is nothing less than a world - wide apostasy from the Catholic Faith fueled by the principles of Freemasonry, which would penetrate the Church using an ecumenical council, corrupt the hierarchy, and threaten the gravest spiritual and material chastisements in world history. Note well that the Third Secret does not just announce the crisis; it identifies the causes of the crisis and the primary cause of the crisis is the doctrinal compromises of the hijackers of Vatican II who sought to give the Church a new orientation rather than unequivocally affirming what she is the Mystical Body of Christ...
PDF text of conference presentation
the Third Secret of Fatima, not yet revealed by the Vatican,
Whatever happened to the letter that floated down from heaven from Mary, that would be revealed in 1960 ?
Here's what Ratzinger actually said:
A careful reading of the text of the so-called third 'secret' of Fatima ... will probably prove disappointing or surprising after all the speculation it has stirred. No great mystery is revealed; nor is the future unveiled.
That does appear to be what many Catholic FReepers allege.
As for the Secret, well I happen to be one of those individuals who thinks we didnt get the whole thing. I told ya! I mean, you have the right to your own opinion, dont you, Father? There, you know, thats my opinion. Because I think its scary. And I dont think the Holy See is going to say something that does not happen, that might happen. And then what does it do if it doesnt happen? I mean the Holy See cannot afford to make prophecies, because. I know, I dont knowmy funeral . . . Its not me, so dont look at me . . . Somethings gonna happen soon. It could be twenty years before it happens. So to God soon could be a thousand years. We dont know that.
The Vatican Secretary of State office was the primary proponent and author of the Vatican party line on Fatima including everything related to the year 2000 release of the Third Secret. Cardinal Ratzinger was writing under the thumb of the Secretary of State in 2000 and I think he regrets what he said then. He has even gone so far as to contradict what he said then in 2000 when he made subsequent comments about Fatima on his flight there in 2010.
I just don't trust the Vatican Secretary of State office. Many of the biggest problems in the Vatican come from that office insinuating itself into every Vatican function and placing itself between the Vatican Curia and the Popes.
Look up the Vatican Moscow Treaty/pact. I think that pact dictates the approach of the Vatican Secretary of State office to this day and contributes to & dictates their position on Fatima.
For later read.
If it hasn’t been released how does he know what’s in it?
Do you believe Benedict’s resignation was connected to the 3rd secret?
Cardinal Ratzinger has said the message of Akita is the same as the Third Secret.
Only months after Bishop Ito approved the Akita apparitions, Cardinal Ratzinger was interviewed on November 11, 1984 by Jesus magazine, a publication of the Pauline Sisters. Within this 1984 interview (titled "Here is Why the Faith is in Crisis"), published to millions in Italy, Cardinal Ratzinger acknowledged that he had read the Third Secret and that it speaks of "The dangers threatening the faith and the life of the Christian, and therefore the world, and also the importance of the last times." Cardinal Ratzinger said that the Third Secret had been suppressed since 1960 to avoid confusing religious prophecy with sensationalism. He also said, "But the things contained in this Third Secret correspond to what is announced in Scripture and are confirmed by many other Marian apparitions...." Howard Dee, former Philippine ambassador to the Vatican, stated that "Cardinal Ratzinger personally confirmed to me that these two messages, of Fatima and Akita, are essentially the same. (Inside the Vatican magazine, 1998) Therefore, when Cardinal Ratzinger mentioned in his interview that the Third Secret corresponds to "other Marian apparitions," this reference includes the Akita apparitions.
Here's the message of Akita, which has the same level of Vatican approval as Lourdes and Fatima:
"As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never have seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and priests.
"The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests); churches and altars will be sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.
"The demon will be especially implacable against souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of my sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will be no longer pardon for them."
Pope John Paul II spoke about the Third Secret also:
The October 1981 issue of the German magazine Stimme des Glaubens reported on a discussion that Pope John Paul II had with a select group of German Catholics, in November of 1980. The following is a verbatim report of the discussion:
Text of the Published Report
The Holy Father was asked, "What about the Third Secret of Fatima? Should it not have already been published by 1960?"
Pope John Paul II replied: "Given the seriousness of the contents, my predecessors in the Petrine office diplomatically preferred to postpone publication so as not to encourage the world power of Communism to make certain moves.
"On the other hand, it should be sufficient for all Christians to know this: if there is a message in which it is written that the oceans will flood whole areas of the earth, and that from one moment to the next millions of people will perish, truly the publication of such a message is no longer something to be so much desired."
The Pope continued: "Many wish to know simply from curiosity and a taste for the sensational, but they forget that knowledge also implies responsibility. They only seek the satisfaction of their curiosity, and that is dangerous if at the same time they are not disposed to do something, and if they are convinced that it is impossible to do anything against evil."
At this point the Pope grasped a Rosary and said: "Here is the remedy against this evil. Pray, pray, and ask for nothing more. Leave everything else to the Mother of God."
The Holy Father was then asked: "What is going to happen to the Church?"
He answered: "We must prepare ourselves to suffer great trials before long, such as will demand of us a disposition to give up even life, and a total dedication to Christ and for Christ With your and my prayer it is possible to mitigate this tribulation, but it is no longer possible to avert it, because only thus can the Church be effectively renewed. How many times has the renewal of the Church sprung from blood! This time, too, it will not be otherwise. We must be strong and prepared, and trust in Christ and His Mother, and be very, very assiduous in praying the Rosary."
I don't find any of what JPII or Cardinal Ratzinger said about the Third Secret in the text released by the Vatican in 2000.
I don’t know. Probably.
If there is no salvation outside the Church, and the Church has been a fraud since 1960, has no one been saved in 50 years?
Anyone validly baptized by water in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is part of the Church and can be saved. Outside the Church there is no salvation, but not everyone who is saved is a formal member of the Church.
Yep. I;m thinking of joining now. I need the power.
A one world Masonic Religion???
What a joke and synthetic writing.
Why is it Catholic FReepers can still tout Masonic conspiracy theories but can’t defend the historical truth of Genesis 1-11?
Some people have to have somebody to hate/blame.
Ever Read The Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita?
Never heard of it; don't know what it is.
"Our ultimate end is that of Voltaire and of the French Revolution - the final destruction of Catholicism, and even of the Christian idea."
The Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita
The Alta Vendita was the highest lodge of the Carbonari and the instruction was promulgated in the early 19th century.
People forget that Masonry declared war on the Church centuries ago and has acted on it numerous times in the past. But us Catholics are just being “hateful” when we point out the dangers of Freemasonry.
Until you are prepared to do this, don't ping me.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.
This thread isn’t about Genesis. Until you’re interested in discussing the topic of the thread, please leave us alone. Feel free to debate your pet peeve elsewhere.
Stay out of the kitchen.
Thanks for letting me know where you, a "hardline traditionalist," stand on the topic.
I guess that's why you're still here. Whenever a Catholic comes here who does defend the inerrancy of the Written Word of G-d your co-religionists waste no time in getting him banned.
So... Y’all sedevacantists finally coming out of the closet?
Stay out of the kitchen.
Says the guy who believes the Masons are plotting to rule the world but who can't bring himself to defend the canonized Word of G-d. Are you one of those people who wants the return of the Middle Ages, only with evolution? Hey, maybe creationism is a Masonic plot!
I don't have any use for the Masons, but any "religion" blasphemous to call into question the very words of G-d Himself deserves to be destroyed.
Discuss the issues all you want but do not make it personal.
You obviously don’t understand the term if you know my posting history here yet accuse me of that. Nonetheless I do believe there is a faction in the Vatican that has sought to downplay and silence the message of Fatima since Vatican II and this presentation does as good a job at analyzing that fact as anything I’ve seen.
I understand the term well enough to know the tropes when I read or hear them. If you’re not, you’re flirting with it and I suspect know more than a few.
You know far less than that for which you give yourself credit. (Heck, I’ve written for the Vatican paper L’Osservatore Romano. I can assure you that under its modern editors no sedevacantists or crypto sedevacantists get published there.)
I suspect you’re confusing sedevacantists with Lefevrists. I attend a diocesan ordinary form (Novus Ordo) mass daily and the diocesan extraordinary form (Traditional Latin) mass most Sundays. Sedes and SSPXers wouldn’t be caught dead at either ;-)
Abuse report filed.
A propos of the subject, but independently, I wrote this today: Was Russia ever consecrated to Mary's Immaculate Heart?
Let's seek first the Kingdom of God and all its righteousness, and everything else will be added onto us.
That's one viewpoint. Here's another:
Another Consecration Omits Russia
While still recovering from wounds inflicted in a failed assassination attempt, Pope John Paul II performed another consecration to the Immaculate Heart in June of 1981. However, the official wording referred to the world, without mentioning Russia specifically, and all the worlds bishops were not asked to participate. This consecration thus failed once again to satisfy Our Ladys request, even though the Pope credited Our Lady of Fatima with saving him from the assassins attack.
Sr. Lucia Speaks Again
A year later, in May of 1982, the Vatican newspaper LOsservatore Romano published an article about Sr. Lucia by Father Umberto Maria Pasquale, a Salesian priest who had known her since 1939. Fr. Pasquale reported that Sr. Lucia told him emphatically that Our Lady had never asked for the consecration of the world, but only of Russia. He also published a photographic reproduction of a handwritten note to him from Sr. Lucia confirming this point.
The Pope Makes an Admission
The day after this article appeared, Pope John Paul II visited Fatima, where he again consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. A few days later, in an article in LOsservatore Romano, the Pope explained why he had failed to mention Russia specifically, saying he had "tried to do everything possible in the concrete circumstances." This was widely interpreted to mean that he could not violate the terms of the Vaticans continuing policy of appeasing Russia.
Our Lady Still "Awaiting Our Consecration"
Two years later, this evasive approach was taken again when the Holy Father once more consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in a ceremony before 250,000 people in Rome in March of 1984. But this time, the Pope made his position clearer. In a departure from his prepared text, he asked Our Lady of Fatima to "enlighten especially the peoples of which You Yourself are awaiting our consecration and confiding." The Pope thus publicly acknowledged that the consecration requested by Our Lady had still not been performed. These words were included in an official report of the event in LOsservatore Romano on March 26, 1984. A similar report appeared the next day in the Italian bishops newspaper Avvenire, describing the Pope praying in St. Peters several hours after the consecration ceremony, asking Our Lady to bless "those peoples for whom You Yourself are awaiting our act of consecration and entrusting."
A Fatima Scholar Speaks
Also in 1984, Father Messias Coelho, a Fatima scholar of many years, publicly insisted that the requested consecration had still not been done. Five years later, Fr. Coelho was to reveal that Vatican officials had issued instructions to Sr. Lucia and others to contradict this statement, and claim the consecration had actually been done.
A Cardinal Agrees With Sr. Lucia
In September of 1985, in an interview in Sol de Fatima magazine (published by the Blue Army in Spain), Sr. Lucia confirmed that the consecration still had not been done, because the 1984 ceremony did not mention Russia, and the worlds Catholic bishops did not participate. Later in the year, Cardinal Edouard Gagnon acknowledged in another interview that the consecration had still not been done as requested. He later objected to having his remarks published, though he did not deny making them.
Confirmation From a Cousin
For many years, Sr. Lucias cousin, Maria do Fetal, publicly quoted Sr. Lucia as saying the consecration had not been done. Maria do Fetal continued to maintain this position until mid-1989, when she suddenly reversed herself, in accordance with the Vatican "instruction" revealed by Fr. Coelho.
More Confirmation from Cardinals
In a brief interview outside her convent while voting in an election in the summer of 1987, Sr. Lucia confirmed to journalist Enrico Romero that the consecration had not been done. Her view was confirmed a few months later by Cardinal Paul Augustin Mayer in an audience with a dozen Catholic leaders, among them the Catholic journalist Victor Kulanday, and again by Cardinal Alfons Stickler a month after that. Cardinal Stickler maintained that the Pope had failed to perform the ceremony as requested because he lacked the necessary support from the worlds bishops. "They do not obey him," he explained.
Bishops Raise Voices
Since the Vatican had ignored petitions with more than three million signatures of lay persons, Fr. Nicholas Gruner, the "Fatima Priest," turned to a much smaller but much more influential group. In 1989, he obtained written confirmation from 350 Catholic bishops of their willingness to perform the requested consecration of Russia specifically. In the same year, petitions bearing another million signatures of the faithful calling for the consecration were also delivered to Rome.
Enforcing the Party Line
In the summer of 1989 at the Hotel Solar da Marta in Fatima, Sr. Lucias longtime friend Fr. Coelho made a surprising disclosure. He told several witnesses that Sr. Lucia and her fellow religious had received instructions from the Vatican to say that the Fatima request had been satisfied by the consecration performed in 1984. In evident obedience, Sr. Lucias cousin Maria do Fetal suddenly repudiated her previous statements, and claimed the consecration had been done. This claim flatly contradicted the Popes own comments made in his prayers both during and after the 1984 ceremony.
Maria do Fetal now showed how unreliable she was as a witness when, in obedience to the Party Line, she claimed she "was inventing" when she reported that Sr. Lucia had said the 1984 consecration did not satisfy Our Ladys request.
Other than some over-the-top rhetoric typical of many Fatimists and Lefevrists, I found his central thesis to have a lot of merit.
bumpus ad summum
Okay, I’ll bite. However, I find the question off topic and do not want to hijack this thread. Is there another thread more congenial to discussing the historicity of Genesis?