Posted on 05/27/2013 7:43:17 AM PDT by DaveMSmith
The Vatican has just announced that, despite what Pope Francis said in his homily earlier this week, atheists are still going to hell.
What a relief. For a brief moment there it was possible to imagine a brave new world of compassion, generosity and acceptance, not qualities we have come to associate with the Holy See.
Said Pope Francis this week: 'The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!'
That seemed like a pretty clear admission that people of other faiths and none have intrinsic worth to God and will be saved alongside the faithful. But this turned out to be wishful thinking.
Although they are otherwise good, moral people they are still doomed to burn in a lake of fire for having the temerity to have been born outside of Catholicism or having chosen to remain so.
The Rev. Thomas Rosica, a Vatican spokesman, spelled it out for the world on Thursday. People who know about the Catholic church 'cannot be saved' if they 'refuse to enter her or remain in her,' he said.
So that's one tall order of eternal hellfire for the rest of us, then.
It makes for an interesting spectacle to see the infallible pope being corrected by his handlers, doesn't it? For a moment it was possible to recall the welcoming and indulgent style of the short lived Pope John Paul I in the unexpectedly all-embracing words of Pope Francis. But you'll recall how quickly John Paul I was replaced by the much more doctrinaire John Paul II.
(Excerpt) Read more at irishcentral.com ...
Pope Francis did not speak “ex cathedra” and was not united with the bishops.He was speaking “off the cuff” as it were. Infallibility does not pertain.
Well, I guess so. He did say that even you could be saved, though under the circumstance he was not speaking for the Church or the Magisterium.
I am more convinced that many in the ‘Vatican’ will burn in hell, than I am that ‘atheists’ (I wonder which type of atheist they meant?) will.
There is a movie with Samuel L. Jackson and Tommy Lee Jones named THE SUNSET LIMITED which deals with that very problem.
If you haven’t seen it, I would recommend it. Very thought provoking.
I think it's more likely that the 'infallibility' thing is a MEDIA CONCEPTION, especially since it's being dispensed by the MEDIA.
Some reporters read a TWITTER post that said "This Pope is Perfect for the Church", and they just took it from there.
“There would be no need for Christ in your “universal salvation” scenario.”
The Pope didn’t preach universal salvation nor does he believe in it. Also, Christ would still be necessary even if universal salvation were true because it would still be ONLY THROUGH HIS GRACE won on the Cross that anyone could be saved. He opened the gates of Heaven. No matter who it is who walks through them, got through them because of Jesus Christ.
He made no infallible statement.
What this means is that once again the Press tried to do Theology and failed. Redemption and Salvation are not the same thing. If you knew the Truth of the Catholic Church and rejected Her, then yes you will be damned. Knowing the Truth is different than just knowing the Church exists.
Yes, nothing the Pope says is infallible unless it is formally spoken ex cathedra, in an Encyclical, in a Church Council, or in agreement with the Bishops.
Also, I don’t know what either the Pope or “the Vatican” actually said, but this report is very careless (which is why I don’t trust it to report anything accurately).
The teaching of the Church is that no one can be saved except through the grace of God and through His Church. But—that grace can be extended to Christians outside the Church, to Jews, to pagans, to atheists, or to anyone else whom God chooses to save because they sin through ignorance rather than deliberate choice.
Something to that effect. Matter of fact, the point was one of the few clarified in the Second Vatican Council and in Encyclicals published since then.
God has redeemed atheists — they just choose not to accept God, Christ or the Holy Spirit.
**Vatican corrects infallible pope: atheists will still burn in hell**
What a misleading headline.
The statement was not made infallibly — it was just said in a homily/sermon.
Some journalists have no brains at all when it comes to telling the truth about the Catholic Church.
Allow me to introduce myself. I’m an un-angry atheist. Now you’ve met at least one.
Many atheists were baptized. In fact, in the overall scheme of life, most people were Baptized. So I think it will be very crowed in Heaven according to you.
It makes for an interesting spectacle to see the infallible pope being corrected by his handlers, doesn't it? For a moment it was possible to recall the welcoming and indulgent style of the short lived Pope John Paul I in the unexpectedly all-embracing words of Pope Francis. But you'll recall how quickly John Paul I was replaced by the much more doctrinaire John Paul II.
Ping for later
That is what I said. But not nearly as well as you did. Thanks for the much better explanation.
I feel sorry for you. Your world will be rocked when you get to heaven and find a bunch of us protestants there. Salvation is of Jesus Christ, not the roman catholic or any other denomination.
It wasn’t an infallible statement to begin with. It was only one line in a sermon.
We are all REDEEMED. Christ's sacrifice on the Cross paid the price for man's sin, closed the breach between man and God, was sufficient to make salvation possible for all.
SALVATION is only for those who accept the grace of God made available because of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross. Even if one who, through no fault of their own, has never heard the true Gospel places their trust in God to the extent that God has revealed Himself to them, CAN (not WILL) be saved.
Basically, redemption is collective, while salvation is individual. Christ redeemed humanity collectively from slavery to sin and from the debt of punishment that mankind, as a whole, owed due to sin. Every person, Christian or non-Christian, is redeemed because he is a member of the human race. Salvation is the application of redemption to individuals. A person can choose to reject the graces won for him by Christ even though he has been redeemed.
So, to recap:
REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION
REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION
REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION
REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION
REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION
REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION
REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION
REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION
REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION
REDEMPTION is not the same as SALVATION
Get that fact straight and there is no problem with anything the Pope said.
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