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Pope Francis rejects attack on old rite and says "treasure tradition"
Hermeneutic of Continuity ^ | May 28, 2013

Posted on 05/29/2013 6:20:30 AM PDT by NYer


The Bishops of the region of Tavoliere met recently with Pope Francis on an ad limina visit. On their return home, one has given a fascinating glimpse of the attitude of Pope Francis to those who are seeking to use the opportunity of his papacy to attack the traditional Mass. This is reported in the Italian paper Il Foglio, in the article: La messa antica non si tocca, il Papa gesuita spiazza ancora tutti ("The old mass is not to be touched, the Jesuit Pope wrong-foots everyone")

Here is my translation of the relevant part of the article which tells of other bishops raising concerns with the Holy Father and goes on to speak of the intervention concerning the old Mass:

Then it was the turn of the bishop of Conversano and Monopoli, Domenico Padovano, who recounted to the clergy of his diocese how the priority of the bishops of the region of Tavoliere had been that of explaining to the Pope that the mass in the old rite was creating great divisions within the Church. The underlying message: Summorum Pontificum should be cancelled, or at least strongly limited. But Francis said no.

Mgr Padovano explained that Francis replied to them saying that they should be vigilant over the extremism of certain traditionalist groups but also suggesting that they should treasure tradition and create the necessary conditions so that tradition might be able to live alongside innovation.
This is not really a surprise (did anyone expect that Pope Francis would somehow "repeal" Summorum Pontificum?) but it is a welcome confirmation of what we would all expect.

One thing that jumps out of the story is that the bishops of this region judged that their main pastoral priority - to be communicated to the Pope on a five-yearly visit - was to attack Summorum Pontificum. Forget abortion, embryo experimentation, the push for same-sex marriage throughout Europe, the loss of faith of many Catholics and our failure in catechesis and evangelisation. No, the really big problem is a small number of priests legitimately saying the old Mass. Given what Pope Francis has said about the danger of being a self-referential Church, I can well imagine he gave them short shrift.


TOPICS: Catholic; Worship
KEYWORDS: tlm

1 posted on 05/29/2013 6:20:30 AM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 05/29/2013 6:20:52 AM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: NYer; piusv

Pingum ad Summum.


3 posted on 05/29/2013 6:33:07 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: NYer

Sorry pope, Jesus isn’t big on tradition. This guy is saying some pretty crazy things as of late.


4 posted on 05/29/2013 6:45:59 AM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: NYer
That's a relief. Although there should be no innovation, not "alongside".
5 posted on 05/29/2013 6:51:13 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: Bulwyf
Sorry pope, Jesus isn’t big on tradition. This guy is saying some pretty crazy things as of late.

I take it you are not catholic. The pope is referring to the "traditional" celebration of the Latin Mass. Such a pronouncement is anything but crazy; it is a blessing for those who prefer the older form of the liturgy.

6 posted on 05/29/2013 7:03:19 AM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: Bulwyf
I think you don't understand what he means by tradition. He means "the good things that are handed on."

Don't underestimate Jesus, who respects and commends tradition in this sense: (Matthew 13:52)
" And he said to them, “Therefore every scribe who has been trained for the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure what is new and what is old.”

7 posted on 05/29/2013 7:26:25 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Jesus thrown everything off balance." - Flannery O'Connor)
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To: NYer

I know many Catholics who love and treasure the Latin Mass. And that is a wonderful thing. I have absolutely no problem with that and hope it will always be provided for those who find it enriching.

As for me, I came up post-Vatican II, and to not speak a lick of Latin. Nor do any Catholics who are younger than I am, so far as I can tell. Nor is Latin likely going to prove very valuable in attracting new converts.

Hence the Church cannot make this an either/or proposition.


8 posted on 05/29/2013 8:32:55 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Bulwyf
Jesus isn’t big on tradition.

Nonsense.

9 posted on 05/29/2013 8:44:39 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
No, it ought not be "either/or". I'm in the choir and I love it, but I wouldn't attend the TLM if I had to go every week.

On the other hand, a lot of the people who attend our little parish TLM (2nd and 4th Sunday of the month) are young families with lots of kids. We've got some lovely pre-teen girls who are singing the Propers (the short antiphon-verse-doxology parts, usually from the Psalms, which change seasonally through the liturgical year.) Did the parents grow up with it? No, but the kids will.


10 posted on 05/29/2013 10:12:32 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Jesus thrown everything off balance." - Flannery O'Connor)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
It's not rocket science. What Latin I have was picked up in church.

1. You know more Latin than you think you do.

2. The Ordinary of the Mass never changes. You can learn it by rote, and any pocket Missal helpfully provides a facing-page English translation.

11 posted on 05/29/2013 11:00:23 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ecce Crucem Domini, fugite partes adversae. Vicit Leo de Tribu Iuda, Radix David, Alleluia!)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
Nor is Latin likely going to prove very valuable in attracting new converts.

Whether in Latin or in the vernacular, young people are moved by reverent liturgies. There is more "there" there than in happy clappy hold-hands-around-the-campfire liturgies. Kids can tell the difference, and while pre-teens often get a buzz out of the rock masses, those masses lack the depth of traditional masses.

The transcendent attracts more converts than the goofy and banal.

12 posted on 05/29/2013 11:49:56 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (People are idiots.)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

They are teaching Latin in the schools again, at least in Los Angeles. Your generation may have missed it, but that doesn’t mean it’s gone.


13 posted on 05/29/2013 12:56:27 PM PDT by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I’m not a traditionalist per se, but this is good to hear.


14 posted on 05/29/2013 2:03:19 PM PDT by piusv
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To: Buckeye McFrog
You don't need to know Latin, you just need to know how to pray, reading helps too.

I grew up VII as well, I see many 20 somethings at TLM, mostly guys who like the orderly manliness of the Old Rite.

Somehow the Church seemed to have converts before the Council.

15 posted on 05/29/2013 2:21:41 PM PDT by pbear8 (the Lord is my light and my salvation)
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To: pbear8
Somehow the Church seemed to have converts before the Council.

Exactly. I used to question whether I would have ever converted if the Mass was not in English. Now I know better. It might have taken me a bit longer, perhaps, but if it's God's Will (and you cooperate with it) it happens...regardless of the language.

16 posted on 05/29/2013 3:28:39 PM PDT by piusv
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To: Bulwyf

Are you aware of how Catholics interpret tradition? The Bible even says so.

Tradition is handing things on person to person, face to face, story by story. There was no Bible when Jesus was preaching. Even with St. Paul — his letters were handed around group to group.

It’s a good thing that works with the Bible. The Bible even says, I believe in three places that there were too many things to write down — and so things were handed on person to person.

Hope this helps.


17 posted on 05/29/2013 7:45:25 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: AnAmericanMother
The Ordinary of the Mass never changes. You can learn it by rote, and any pocket Missal helpfully provides a facing-page English translation.

That's the way the Missals were in my Parish, and how I learned it. It's not difficult.

And the Ordinary of the Mass IS Universal. I attended a Mass in Tokyo, which was celebrated in Japanese, and knew what was going on, and said the prayers to myself in English. Our daughter understands Japanese, and told me, later, that the homily was about the parable of the mustard seed. ;o)

The friend we were visiting, and who helped us find the little church tucked away in a neighborhood, and who is not Catholic, asked me afterwards how I was able to follow the Mass without knowing a word of Japanese. I just told her that the Mass is always the same, and said the same way, all over the world.

18 posted on 06/01/2013 10:50:22 AM PDT by SuziQ
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