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Are Christians More Like Jesus or More Like the Pharisees?
Barna Group ^ | April 30, 2013

Posted on 06/07/2013 10:30:42 AM PDT by DaveMSmith

One of the common critiques leveled at present-day Christianity is that it’s a religion full of hypocritical people. A new Barna Group study examines the degree to which this perception may be accurate. The study explores how well Christians seem to emulate the actions and attitudes of Jesus in their interactions with others.

The research project was directed by David Kinnaman, president of Barna Group, in conjunction with John Burke, author of Mud and the Masterpiece, a book exploring the attitudes and actions of Jesus in all of his encounters.

Assessing Christlikeness
In this nationwide study of self-identified Christians, the goal was to determine whether Christians have the actions and attitude of Jesus as they interact with others or if they are more akin to the beliefs and behaviors of Pharisees, the self-righteous sect of religious leaders described in the New Testament.

In order to assess this, Barna researchers presented a series of 20 agree-or-disagree statements. Five actions and five attitudes that seem to best encapsulate the actions and attitudes of Jesus Christ during his ministry on earth. The researchers did the same for the Pharisees (10 total statements, five reflecting behaviors and five examining attitudes).

< snip >

The findings reveal that most self-identified Christians in the U.S. are characterized by having the attitudes and actions researchers identified as Pharisaical. Just over half of the nation’s Christians—using the broadest definition of those who call themselves Christians—qualify for this category (51%). They tend to have attitudes and actions that are characterized by self-righteousness.

(Excerpt) Read more at barna.org ...


TOPICS: Ecumenism; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach
KEYWORDS:
Matthew 10:38 NKJV
And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
1 posted on 06/07/2013 10:30:42 AM PDT by DaveMSmith
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To: DaveMSmith

Irrelevant. Christians are sinners like everyone else who are saved from the wrath of God through the Blood of Jesus Christ.


2 posted on 06/07/2013 10:35:12 AM PDT by MichaelCorleone (Jesus Christ is not a religion. He's the Truth.)
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To: MichaelCorleone

51% are not “Christ-like” by the parameters set up in the study. that means 49% are “Christ-like”. IMHO, that’s higher than I would have expected for a secular study of Christian behavior.


3 posted on 06/07/2013 10:42:42 AM PDT by knittnmom (Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!)
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To: DaveMSmith
it’s a religion full of hypocritical people

Its a religion full of people. Saved by grace, but still people.

4 posted on 06/07/2013 10:44:09 AM PDT by marron
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To: DaveMSmith

Of course we’re flawed. All fall short of the glory of God. That’s why we need Christ. Sheesh, if we were all Christ-like already, He wouldn’t have had to bother.


5 posted on 06/07/2013 10:44:58 AM PDT by ottbmare (The OTTB Mare--now a Marine Mom)
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To: MichaelCorleone
No, it's not irrelevant. The author has a point. Look at Christianity today. Is there really that much of a different between the Church today and Judaism during the time of Christ? It's interesting this topic came up today because of something my mother sent me last night. It goes like this:

WE'VE LOST the GOSPEL
by Andrew Strom

There is no tragedy in the world worse than this - the church losing the gospel. We could have a hundred terrorist attacks, or earthquakes, or hurricanes, and it would still not outweigh the tragedy of this one thing - WE HAVE LOST THE GOSPEL. Nothing can compare to this disaster - nothing.

For when you lose the gospel, you lose salvation. People are actually no longer becoming saved. (Remember, Paul said that the gospel is the "POWER OF GOD unto salvation"). And when people are no longer truly becoming saved, you also lose the church. For no true gospel = no true church.

People will tell me that I am being too "drastic". Well, I want to say to you that I am not being drastic enough. In fact, if I were to shout through 1000 megaphones directly into your ears, it would not be possible for me to overemphasize just how disastrous and awful and horrific it is that our backslidden Western church today has - to all intents and purposes - lost its gospel. And in doing so it has lost its very reason for being.

We tell everybody that all they need to do is say a little rote prayer accepting Jesus as their "personal savior". Tell me, where is such a thing in Scripture? Does such a thing even come close to existing? Can you recall even ONE person doing such a thing to become a Christian in the Bible? Did any of the Apostles in Acts ever say to someone, "Just repeat this little prayer after me"? Or "Quietly slip up your hand - no need for anyone to see"? Can you remember ANYONE in Scripture doing anything like that?

No, you can´t. That is because nobody ever did. It is all a modern fabrication - a complete invention. -This is no salvation at all. We act like people can safely forget about CONVICTION of sin and DEEP REPENTANCE and WATER-BAPTISM and getting FILLED with the Holy Spirit. -Just "optional extras", eh? But look at `Acts´ and tell me - was there ever such a thing as real Christianity without these things? And what about getting a CLEAN CONSCIENCE (-washed in the blood) and KEEPING IT CLEAN? Are we ever told how to walk in THAT today?? -To actually "walk" in the washing of the blood of Jesus? To be clean, to be utterly "Clean", to be EVERY WHIT CLEAN?? (-The most important thing in the world). Where is this in our gospel? Where is the transformed life? Where is the "FREEDOM" from sin?

We have lost it all. Our people very rarely repent. They often go for years without baptism (-meaning, according to Romans 6, that their "old man" is not yet dead - and so they simply cannot live a new life in Christ). Read Romans 6 sometime and ask yourself this question- "If I have not been baptized, then is my old life "buried" with Christ or not? Is my `old man´ dead or not?" -This is why the apostles always baptized people RIGHT AWAY.

And then we often fail to get people `FILLED´ with the Spirit straight away too - let alone "walking" in the Spirit. Tell me, how are we supposed to have `HOLINESS´ if we have not even been filled with the "HOLY" Spirit? Why do you think that the apostles always made sure that people became Spirit-filled RIGHT AWAY??

Most of us do not even preach "Day One" Christianity as it was in the Bible. We have lost the gospel and we don´t even know it. We have invented a gospel of `convenience´, a gospel without the cross, a gospel without holiness or the power to live a Christian life. -A gospel that shows no-one how to get a CLEAN CONSCIENCE or how to WALK IN IT. I want to say to you that such a gospel is NO GOSPEL AT ALL. And we should be ashamed of ourselves for preaching such a travesty.

No wonder today´s church is lukewarm! The gospel is the building block upon which everything else is built. Without it we have nothing - literally nothing. It affects all that we do and all that we are. To lose it is simply the worst disaster imaginable. So how on earth can we get it back?

Well, we have spoken about "Revival" many times on this site. But what a lot of people don´t realize is that the `RETURN OF THE GOSPEL´ was often the key that brought about the Great Awakenings - the GOSPEL being restored and preached in power. The longest-lasting Revivals always involved the "RETURN OF THE GOSPEL". That is precisely what was happening with the preaching of Wesley, Finney, Whitefield, etc. And it has to happen again today!

So "Revival" to me is far more than just a fleeting visitation. It is to be the long-lasting restoration of the true gospel - and thus the true church also. If we want true Christianity restored today, we must first see THE GOSPEL restored. It is the most important key to it all. O God, send such a Revival! BRING BACK THE GOSPEL and those who will PREACH IT! O God, we cry out to you in the mighty name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Now, I don't know Mr. Strom, but it seems to be that he has a valid point. America has lost its way. Most of the preachers you see today want money for their homes and cars, not souls for the Kingdom. They see the ministry as a job, not a calling. The message has been lost in a sea of moral relativism and ambiguous social teachings.

6 posted on 06/07/2013 10:47:45 AM PDT by ducttape45
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To: DaveMSmith

They are like neither, Christians are paulinists:
Christians quote Paul more than Jesus.....defaulting to Paul over Jesus’ words and defaulting to Paul over the words of God in the “OT”.

When is the last time a christian could make their point without quoting Paul over Jesus or God’s Word?


7 posted on 06/07/2013 10:52:48 AM PDT by brent13a
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To: DaveMSmith

Pharisees of old were Christian. They did not recognize the Christ. Blinded by self rightiousness,their pride was deadly.
Same as it ever was: the tale is an eternal lesson.
‘Pharisees’....like the poor...will always be with us: among all nominal, and actual, “Christians” The survey gets answers to irrational, ignorant questions....from equally ignorant participants. Just more Pharisees painting Christ and Christians as worthy of scorn....at least , and death...at worst.

Same as it ever was.......same as it ever was. No news here.


8 posted on 06/07/2013 10:56:28 AM PDT by dasboot
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To: DaveMSmith

Just a note of caution. Pharisees will typically think everyone else is the Pharisee.


9 posted on 06/07/2013 11:06:04 AM PDT by marron
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To: ottbmare

This article really doesn’t discuss the methodology and statistical analysis of the study, so it’s hard to make a judgement about it. But it’s widely understood that questionnaire-based research is, to say the least, afflicted with a primary confound. Which is to say, it’s not hugely valid.

The basic perspective of the secular researchers is revealed by two of the questions identified as Pharisaical: “I believe we should stand against those who are opposed to Christian values” and “People who follow God’s rules are better than those who do not.” Call me a Pharisee, then, but like most on this forum I do believe we should stand against those who are opposed to Christian values.

And if following God’s rules does not make one a better person, then God is not good, which is a logical impossibility. Christians are certainly flawed sinful human beings, but think how much worse we’d be if we weren’t trying to be better.


10 posted on 06/07/2013 11:11:42 AM PDT by ottbmare (The OTTB Mare--now a Marine Mom)
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To: DaveMSmith
a religion full of hypocritical people

I don't know about other church's but my church doesn't allow sinful people inside. My church especially disallows hypocrites.

Currently my church has no members (except Jesus) but I'm working on it.

11 posted on 06/07/2013 11:14:00 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: DaveMSmith
Trick questions: The 10 statements used to assess self-righteousness (like the Pharisees), included the following research items: Self-Righteous Actions: ■I tell others the most important thing in my life is following God’s rules. ■I don’t talk about my sins or struggles. That’s between me and God. ■I try to avoid spending time with people who are openly gay or lesbian. ■I like to point out those who do not have the right theology or doctrine. ■I prefer to serve people who attend my church rather than those outside the church. Self-Righteous Attitudes: ■I find it hard to be friends with people who seem to constantly do the wrong things. ■It’s not my responsibility to help people who won’t help themselves. ■I feel grateful to be a Christian when I see other people’s failures and flaws. ■I believe we should stand against those who are opposed to Christian values. ■People who follow God’s rules are better than those who do not.
12 posted on 06/07/2013 11:15:55 AM PDT by Owl558 (Those who remember George Santayana are doomed to repeat him)
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To: brent13a

My mother calls Christianity “Paulianity”.


13 posted on 06/07/2013 11:16:20 AM PDT by Marie ("The last time Democrats gloated this hard after a health care victory, they lost 60 House seats.")
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To: ducttape45

The author is conflating separate theological principles into one. The primary sin of the Pharisees was they rejected the need of a savior. They believe that their works would make them right with God. Their hypocrisy got in the way of seeing Jesus for who he is.

It is long understood that when we are justified we are not automatically sanctified. Sanctification for most Christians is a life long process and for some it is a journey that never starts.

At any point in time, it would be understandable that if we measure all Christians we will find them at different points on a sanctification spectrum. A true measure would be to see if the Christian is better today than yesterday.

Heck, if we measured the apostles right after the death on the cross we would say that Jesus failed in his ministry.


14 posted on 06/07/2013 11:30:19 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: brent13a
When is the last time a christian could make their point without quoting Paul over Jesus or God’s Word?

Perhaps according to Paul's testimony:

Gal 11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Further backed by Peter:

18 Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas[b] and stayed with him fifteen days. 19 I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother. 20 I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie.

Getting a referral from Peter is good enough for me.

15 posted on 06/07/2013 11:33:28 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: brent13a
Are Christians More Like Jesus or More Like the Pharisees?

They are like neither, Christians are paulinists

All Christians are paulinists?

"Christians quote Paul more than Jesus.....defaulting to Paul over Jesus' words and defaulting to Paul over the words of God in the 'OT'".

And then this:When is the last time a christian could make their point without quoting Paul over Jesus or God’s Word?

A moot point and a distracting straw man diversion.

All scripture is of God, and God breathed, so how can Paul's words (inspired by the Holy Spirit) go against God's word?

God is NOT double minded as you seem to infer.

If you wish to discount Paul's ministry, try to stay Biblical.

Jesus knocked Paul off of his horse to get his attention and he went on to write close to 1/2 of the NT.

Hopefully he finds a way to set you straight.

Added note: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you can be saved.

You know, become a Christian. Born again. With the Holy Spirit within you and guiding your thoughts and your use of a keyboard.

16 posted on 06/07/2013 12:25:26 PM PDT by Syncro ("So?")
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To: ducttape45

I should have not used the world irrelevant.

What I meant by that is that, according to Scripture, in Paul’s letters he states “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God, and not of workss, lest any man should boast.”

Still, we are called to be conformed to the likeness of Jesus; to take up the cross, as we were bought for a price.

I will choose my words more carefully next time.


17 posted on 06/07/2013 12:53:14 PM PDT by MichaelCorleone (Jesus Christ is not a religion. He's the Truth.)
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To: DaveMSmith

The first flaw in the study is man devising the test to determine who is godly. That, in itself, seems Pharisaical.

I have had issues with people who are too narrow and judgemental but more with people who are too liberal and pervert what is clearly preached in Scripture. To hear them, “sin” is when you don’t believe in global warming and environmentalism, when you don’t believe in government stealing money from the rich, when you condemn those who have sex outside of marriage (whether gay or straight), etc.

So, I have major problems with the premise even before I get to the questions but suspect the questions are just as slanted and absurd.


18 posted on 06/07/2013 1:15:28 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Our economy won't heal until one particular black man is unemployed.)
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To: brent13a

Personally, I use all of the Bible to make my arguments on biblical subjects.

Your assertion is silly. Jesus did not write any of the Bible. The words of Christ recorded in it were written by apostles which include Paul. So anyone quoting Christ’s words are quoting the apostles.

Further, Paul identified Christ’s words as the basis of true doctrine and also claimed to be an example to follow BECAUSE he followed Christ.

The difference is that Paul was specially and specifically called to spread the gospel to the Gentiles. Because the church today is predominantly Gentile, a lot of what he wrote relates more to people who did not grow up in a lifestyle of Judaism.

It was settled fairly early in the church that Gentiles did not need to convert to Judaism in order to become followers of Jesus.


19 posted on 06/07/2013 1:23:25 PM PDT by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: Owl558

I don’t think those are “trick” questions at all. For the most part they go straight to the heart of the pharisaical mindset.

The reality is that we are all pharisees. Each of us has a set of guidelines, based more or less loosely on Scripture, that enables us to discriminate between the ins and the outs. That attitude comes closer to ideology than to faith in Christ.

Nothing particularly unusual about it, after all, self-righteousness was the basis for the Fall. But we seek usurp even God’s role in salvation. Pope Benedict described it this way, “It seems as if we want to be rewarded, not just with our own salvation, but most especially with other people’s damnation—just like the workers hired in the first hour. That is very human, but the Lord’s parable is particularly meant to make us quite aware of how profoundly un-Christian it is at the same time.”

THAT is the heart of the pharisee.


20 posted on 06/07/2013 1:30:35 PM PDT by newheart (The worst thing the Left ever did was to convince the world it was not a religion.)
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To: newheart

“Nothing particularly unusual about it, after all, self-righteousness was the basis for the Fall.”

You make a good point that I can’t deny.

And you got to use “pharisaical” in a sentence today.


21 posted on 06/07/2013 1:44:51 PM PDT by Owl558 (Those who remember George Santayana are doomed to repeat him)
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To: Owl558
And you got to use “pharisaical” in a sentence today.

LOL. Always a good day when that occurs. At least until the word "pharisaical" no longer applies to anyone. (Wow. That's twice.)

22 posted on 06/07/2013 1:47:59 PM PDT by newheart (The worst thing the Left ever did was to convince the world it was not a religion.)
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To: DaveMSmith

The Pharisees believed that an adherence to God’s Law was what saved you. The better you kept to His Law, the better you were. Unfortunately, this is still the prevailing belief today. Nothing changes. If Christ were to come back today, his battles would be with the accepted, mainstream Christianity.

It’s a man-centered belief, not a Christ-centered one. This story isn’t about mankind. This story is about God and Christ. We are just blessed to have a small bit part in it. But so many churches put mankind at the center. It’s all about us. So many churches pay lip service to Christ, while the entire sermon is about us - how we should act, what we should do, how sinful we are. All chaff.

Here is some valuable knowledge. The Lord says we will know false prophets by their fruits. Just as there was one fruit that was eaten to cause the fall of man, there is only one fruit by which we may attain salvation: the fruit of the vine, the blood of Christ. If your preacher doesn’t center his sermon on the blood of Christ, you should run from that church. Only false prophets spend their time telling you there is some code of conduct that keeps you in God’s grace or that you must perform some act to please him.

It just seems right, though, doesn’t it? If I can just stop having that beer after work, if I can just stop slipping up and cursing, or if I can just give more of my money to the Church, God will like me better. I will be more righteous. He will surely be pleased with me.

Satan transformed into an angel of light.

It is a faith in the flesh, and the Lord says it’s a path to destruction. It’s laid out very well in this passage in Philippians 3:

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

That short passage, which takes less than thirty seconds to read, mentions Christ five times. How many times does your preacher say it in his hour-long Sunday morning service?


23 posted on 06/07/2013 2:02:43 PM PDT by itzmygun (Elitism + hatred of mankind = LIBERALISM)
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To: DaveMSmith
From the article: I listen to others to learn their story before telling them about my faith. This is Christlike.

Do what??

24 posted on 06/07/2013 2:11:09 PM PDT by Gamecock ("Ultimately, Jesus died to save us from the wrath of God." ¬óR.C. Sproul)
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To: Raycpa
I don't know about other church's but my church doesn't allow sinful people inside. My church especially disallows hypocrites.

Currently my church has no members (except Jesus) but I'm working on it.

LOL! Triple LOL!

Post of the day.

25 posted on 06/07/2013 3:16:26 PM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: BlackVeil

LOL. Our local Presbeterian Church has an ad in the paper welcoming everyone to come especially sinners, since no one in their church is a saint.


26 posted on 06/07/2013 3:18:58 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: greeneyes

Shakes head ... not good enough. Especially not good enough for me. My standards are very nice.


27 posted on 06/07/2013 3:32:00 PM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: BlackVeil

Standards are important.


28 posted on 06/07/2013 3:42:09 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: DaveMSmith

Christians are those who believe in the Holy Trinity — Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Other variations are not Christian...


29 posted on 06/08/2013 6:23:05 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: brent13a

Come for mass on Sunday and you’ll see that..


30 posted on 06/08/2013 6:23:53 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: dasboot

It’s important to remember that Jesus was a Pharisee. He was regularly referred to as “rabbi”, and the Pharisees were then the only branch of Judaism “ordaining” rabbis through the practice of “simicha”, or the laying on of hands. Their practices essentially developed into modern Judaism.


31 posted on 06/08/2013 7:36:05 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: Raycpa

We’re all sinners, saved by the grace of God alone, through faith. That does not mean that unrepentant, ongoing, openly sinful behavior should be tolerated within any church. It’s poison. Such individuals demonstrate who and what they are as well as what they aren’t, and there comes a point where disassociation is the correct, best thing to do for the congregation as a whole.


32 posted on 06/08/2013 7:43:41 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: DaveMSmith

Matthew 10:38 NKJV
And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.


Exactly.
The only way i liken Christians with the Pharisees is that many of them have spent so much time condemning people for doing things that they don,t believe in such as drinking and smoking that they have completely ignored some of the weightier things and in that respect they are like the scribes and pharisees.

No one can be saved with out repentance which is admitting we our wrong and doing our best to go the other way, any one who truly believes would have to be ashamed when doing something God says not to do.

No believer could advocate doing anything God forbids period.

Many people have strong desires which if they are Christian gets them into trouble, and many people Christian or not do not have these obstacles.

Are the people who do not have these strong desires of nature the only ones who can be Christians? no.

That is why Paul explains that Bishops and deacons chosen from among the elders should be responsible.

1 tim 3
2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Not all of the elders would have qualified because other wise it would not have been necessary for Paul to even mention the qualifications.

So it is evidence that even the actual members of the Church were not all people with out things in their lives that could be a detriment to the teaching of the Gospel.

People use that word love with out trying to take the time to understand what it means. as in love your neighbor and your enemy.

Jesus explains what love is very plainly.

Matt 22
39
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

luke 10

33
But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: And when he saw him, he had compassion on him, and went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, ‘Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.’ Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbor unto him that fell among the thieves?” And he said, “He that showed mercy on him.” Then said Jesus unto him, “Go, and do thou likewise.”

People can go around hollering love or they can go around with their fists doubled up but the above is what Jesus says the love of God is.

First we say we will and then we won,t then we say we won,t and then we do, words, words, words.


33 posted on 06/08/2013 9:19:22 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: brent13a

When is the last time a christian could make their point without quoting Paul over Jesus or God’s Word?


That is a very good point considering the words that Jesus spoke is the Gospel.


34 posted on 06/08/2013 3:48:34 PM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: ravenwolf

Paul was Apostle to the Gentiles, he knew sin, was a great sinner, persecuting and killing Christians himself, before God intervened.

He came from that state of sin to become one of the foremost teachers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and taught it well, especially to the sinner and the unbeliever because he had been adamantly so himself once.

His scriptural writings speak quite clearly to certain people. Perhaps you’re not among their number. Perhaps you think Paul, an Apostle, is a nut but somehow inexplicably regarded as a saint by the Catholic Church, which is perhaps your own church. A nut who wrote divinely inspired scripture, that you perhaps reject.

If so, you wouldn’t be the first Catholic on the FR religion forum to hold that opinion, internally contradictory though it obviously may be to those Christians in other churches.


35 posted on 06/08/2013 5:26:06 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

He came from that state of sin to become one of the foremost teachers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and taught it well, especially to the sinner and the unbeliever because he had been adamantly so himself once.


I agree, and i do not reject Pauls writings, what i reject is the fact that so many people ignore the Gospel of our Lord which is mostly explained by his words of do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Much of Pauls writings are not the Gospel but simply instructions for building the Church to teach the Gospel, for instance qualifications for Bishops and Deacons in Timothy 3

I would not meet those Qualifications because i have done so many stupid things that makes me unfit to be in a position such as that.

I am not a Catholic, neither am i anything else so i guess i am near to nothing, no joke.

At any rate if the words of our lord is not the only Gospel then we are all lost, the Churches which Paul was writing to may have only taught the birth, death and resurrection of our lord because it is possible they never had the full Gospel as we see it in our Bible.


36 posted on 06/09/2013 4:20:40 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: ducttape45

There are many who believe and speak that Jesus Christ died for our sins and was raised in the flesh as proof of the glory of God.

It’s not true to say “we” have lost the Gospel.


37 posted on 06/09/2013 4:29:56 AM PDT by reasonisfaith ("...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians))
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To: ducttape45

Very good. Strom is on it and he’s correct. The ‘Christians’ have deviated from Christ and his clear teaching.


38 posted on 06/09/2013 5:51:13 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: brent13a

Yes, Paulinists is a great term and apt.


39 posted on 06/09/2013 5:51:54 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Cronos

Trinitarian Christians are those who believe in the Holy Trinity — Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Other variations are Christian’s who believe in the Bible. The Trinity is a philosophical invention.


40 posted on 06/09/2013 6:01:38 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: marron

Christianity is a religion that expects fundamental change in people. We become disciples and the Master’s expectation is mastery.


41 posted on 06/09/2013 6:02:59 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: ravenwolf

Paul was the instrument of God for a good half of the New Testament. So, of course scripture attributed to Paul is relied upon quite frequently. Is it red letter scripture, meaning the words of Jesus Christ himself? No.

You’ll find nothing but validation, confirmation and reinforcement of those Red letter words from Paul, though. He was a great teacher and a great Christian who knew sin, knew it well, having sinned greatly against believers of Jesus Christ before his encounter on the road to Damascus.

One of the most eloquent, thrilling passages in the New Testament to me comes from Paul How anyone can read I Corinthians 15 and fail to be moved and inspired is beyond me.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+15&version=KJV


42 posted on 06/09/2013 7:31:29 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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