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Mormons to Have 85,000 Missionaries This Year
ReligionNews.com ^ | June 4, 2013 | Jana Riess

Posted on 06/09/2013 7:56:19 AM PDT by Colofornian

The Salt Lake Tribune reported yesterday that the LDS Church is expecting to hit a milestone of 85,000 missionaries in late 2013. This is half again as many missionaries as were serving before the Church made its landmark October 2012 announcement that the missionary age was being lowered, spurring thousands of young men and women to turn in their applications.

(Excerpt) Read more at janariess.religionnews.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: agerequirement; lds; missionaries; mormonism
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From the article: The Salt Lake Tribune reported yesterday that the LDS Church is expecting to hit a milestone of 85,000 missionaries in late 2013.

The Lds currently have had over 50,000 missionaries...their previous high was just over 60,000 at any given time.

Now, with the age requirement being lowered, many are electing to not interrupt the flow of their college years by getting it out of the way post-high school.

So, there will be this temporary mass inflation...but will likely stay higher than what it was as 18 yo seniors coming out of high school remain a little more "idealistic" than 19 yo college freshmen.

1 posted on 06/09/2013 7:56:20 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: All
This will significantly raise the number of Mormon messengers spouting the following:

Snapshot of Joseph Smith’s Slanderous Invectives vs. Christian Sects

Mormon Source

[Note: Most of these are Mormon ‘scriptures'. In fact, First three rows below are Lds 'scripture' & therefore cannot be rug-swept any more than a Jew might try to take three commandments off of the very tablets of stone Moses brought down from the mountain]
“...which of all the sects was right… must join NONE of them, for they were ALL WRONG… those professors were ALL CORRUPT…” Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price
...“which of all the sects was right…ALL their CREEDS were an ABOMINATION in his sight…they teach for doctrines the commandments of MEN…” Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price
Mormon church the only ‘Christ-sanctioned’ church on earth: “…the foundation of this [Mormon] church…the ONLY true and living church on the face of the whole earth” [Obvious ‘scorched earth’ implication: All other churches are false and dead] Lds “scripture” Doctrines & Covenants 1:30
Direct question asked of Joseph Smith: 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?" Answer from Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119 [Not “scripture” – but still publicly spoken by the Mormon ‘living prophet’ and published by a later Mormon ‘living prophet,’ Joseph Fielding Smith – via a publisher owned by the Mormon church – Deseret News Press, 1938]
“In 1952…the first official proselyting plan was sent to missionaries throughout the world…It included seven missionary discussions that emphasized…[four topics, one of them being]THE APOSTASY and Restoration…” [This makes it 60 years that Mormon church missionaries, soon to number 85,000, have formally emphasized in its training & door to door saturation a priority in bashing the worldwide Christian church as “apostates” (100% AWOL)] Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints p. 116, 1996

2 posted on 06/09/2013 7:58:48 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Thanks for the Good News!


3 posted on 06/09/2013 7:59:00 AM PDT by District13 (I miss my country!)
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To: All; District13
Ya know, there's a few folks who will occasionally complain about some of the threads I post. But at least when these threads are posted, no doorbell rings in your home that tends to compel the hearer to respond.

So, a note to ALL: Please consider either readying yourself to respond to the false claims of Mormonism, or, if you're not willing to do that, that leaves you with resorting to "no solicitation" or "no proselytizing" signs on your doors.

4 posted on 06/09/2013 8:02:28 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian; All
This is GOOD news? I think not. The Judge who ruled against Sheriff Joe Arpaio, Murray Snow is a Mormon who did his missionary work in Mexico and speaks fluent Spanish and made an absolute mockery of the law by declaring Arpaio's enforcement of the law "racial profiling" against a new race called "Latinos". Snow is disgusting and un-American- AND MORMON- AND his father is a BIG WIG in the LDS.

It is time for a boycott of all LDS-owned businesses and entities until they stop protecting illegal alien lawbreakers and endorsing amnesty.

5 posted on 06/09/2013 8:07:13 AM PDT by montag813
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To: Colofornian

Yeah I live in constant fear of someone ringing my doorbell. Thanks.


6 posted on 06/09/2013 8:07:22 AM PDT by Williams (No Obama)
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To: District13
Having myself served a two-year miossion for the Church in 1975-1977 in southern Germany, when there were 20,000 missionaries out in the field, I can say that this is an amazing thing to see.

Of course, since that time two things have happened that have significantly increased the number.

1) Retired couple and older single individuals are encouraged to serve. There are probably 20,000 of these individuals in these ranks.

2) As stated, the Church lowered the age for young men from 19 to 18 years of age, and for young women from 21 years to 19 years which has also increased the numbers significantly over the last year.

The mission is, and always has been about bringing people to Jesus Christ, the Redeemer of mankind and the Son of the Eternal God, our Father. In addition, the experience is an unbelievably good thing for those youth so involved in terms of teaching them to be away from home, to be able to be disciplined, to be engaged in a very worthwhile activity and to prepare them for life.

Both of my sons served, one in Canada, and the other in France. I am grateful for their service and the impact they had, through the Holy Spirit and Gospel of Jesus Christ on others, and that it had on them. It can never be taken away from them, or anyone else. They would have to give it up themselves.

God bless ALL people sincerely serving to bring anyone on this earth closer to Jesus Christ. I say that sincerely for all Christian faiths who have people out in the world so engaged in the great commission. it is the great balm and healer of individuals and nations.

AMERICA AT THE CROSSROADS OF HSTORY

THE PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL TRAIN WRECK OF MANKIND

7 posted on 06/09/2013 8:09:00 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Colofornian

“So, a note to ALL: Please consider either readying yourself to respond to the false claims of Mormonism, or, if you’re not willing to do that, that leaves you with resorting to “no solicitation” or “no proselytizing” signs on your doors. “

au contraire mon frere I can’t wait for them to come! I intend to ask them why they sold out on the BSA when they held tight on Prop 8. I’d love to know that answer.


8 posted on 06/09/2013 8:11:53 AM PDT by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: montag813
Like Reid, there are LDS who choose wrong, who use bad judgment, and who use their position for personal gain or ideological advancement. Just as there are within all parties and denominations. I would no more judge harshly all Catholics by what Ted Kennedy did, or other denominations by the lame brain actions of a few.

Generally, if you are looking for bad amongst any group of people, you can find it. The converse also holds true.

9 posted on 06/09/2013 8:11:59 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Jeff Head; District13; All
The mission is, and always has been about bringing people to Jesus Christ, the Redeemer of mankind and the Son of the Eternal God, our Father.

ALL: This is the "Jesus" that Lds missionaries will attempt to "intro" others to:

To summarize the chart briefly:
The traditional Christ within Christianity is...
...uniquely THE ONLY begotten Son from eternity past, not one of millions of God's pre-existent "sons";
He is uniquely Savior, not one of millions of saviors per Mormondom;
He is uniquely Creator and divine and self-existent from eternity past, not one of MILLIONS of men who are somehow likewise "self-existent" from eternity past;
His blood is uniquely powerful beyond men's commandment-keeping -- lest the promise Jesus made to the thief on the cross become a false prophecy;
His blood is potent enough to cover ALL sins, unlike the Mormon Jesus who leaves men to "make up" for anemic blood via their own "blood atonement."
He absorbed God's wrath vs. the Book of Mormon violent Jesus who took out His wrath upon thousands of residents in alleged 16 Book of Mormon cities! The violent Mormon Jesus sunk, entombed, and otherwise destroyed perhaps up to 90,000 upon His death on the Mormon cross! The Bible knows no such horrific crucifixion aftermath fairy tales...

CHART

Questions Distinguishing 'Mormon' Jesus from Jesus of Bible Mormon 'Jesus'? Based upon what Lds 'scripture' Jesus of Bible? Relevant Scriptures
1. Was Jesus self-existent from all eternity past? Lds say NO -- unless Lds want to claim that men also are 'self-existent' from eternity past: "Man was also in the beginning with God." (D&C 93:29); yet they de-emphasize their own "scripture" -- Alma 13:9 in the Book of Mormon, where it reads how Jesus was "the only begotten without beginning of days" D&C 93:29 vs. Alma 13:9. Note: In Joseph Smith's "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," he also elaborated upon a "council of gods" who were before Heavenly Father; and how Heavenly Father himself had a "father" and grandfather. YES John 8:58; John 1:1,18; Micah 5:2; Ex. 3:14
2. Is the title 'firstborn' as applied to Christ NOT linked to being the "elder brother" of you and me as pre-earth spirits, as Mormons interpret it, but rather to the Son of God being the pre-eminent heir and creator of all things?

NO

D&C 93:21 -- introduced 1833...not found in Book of Mormon NO Col. 1:15-18; Eph. 6:12; Ps. 80:27
3. Can the 'Creator' be One who was 'created' (as a 'creature')? YES "And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pg.269). NO Col. 1:16
4. Was Jesus as Son of God perfect from eternity past? NO "Even Christ himself was NOT perfect at first; he received not a fulness at first, but he received grace for grace, and he continued to receive more and more until he received a fulness." (Lds 6th "prophet" Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 1986, p. 68); * "...we have a correct idea of the character of the Son from the writings of the apostles, so far as they learned it. But while he was tabernacling in the flesh, he was more or less contaminated with fallen nature." (Brigham Young, JoD vol. 6, p. 95) YES 2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:22
5. Was Jesus always 'divine' from eternity past? NO * "Jesus BECAME a God and reached His great state of understanding through consistent effort and continuous obedience to all the Gospel truths and universal laws." (p. 51 Milton Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages); * "Christ ATTAINED Godhood while yet in pre-existence..." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 323) YES John 17:5; Heb. 1:8
6. Was Jesus born "at" Bethlehem? NO (Jerusalem) Alma 7:10, Book of Mormon YES Micah 5:2 prophesy; Matt. 2:1; Luke 2:4,15; John 7:42
7. Was one of the purposes that Christ came to earth was so that He, Himself could become a "saved being?" YES "Christ is a saved being” (Lds "apostle" McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257); * "Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a SAVED BEING... (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234) Please also see... * McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation) and * McConkie, "The Seven Deadly Heresies,' in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1981] p. 78 where he said: "There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity." [cited in Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983 (1983) p. 72] NO 1 John 4:14; John 4:42 (THE Savior, not the saved!)
8. Is Jesus but one 'savior'-'redeemer' among many? YES and NO (Lds contradicts themselves) LDS: NO: D&C 76:1, 1832; changed 1834 in D&C 103:9 & expanded to save the dead in 1841-1842 (D&C 124; D&C 128:1-3, 17-18...esp. v. 18); also Lds cite Obadiah 21 in the Old Testament as some sort of "justification" for applying "saviors" (plural) to themselves -- alleged "saviors" of mankind via baptisms for the dead! NO "THE Savior" in 1 John 4:14 and John 4:42, not saviors plural; also, in 1 Cor. 15:29 which Mormons have hijacked as their own -- the apostle Paul says "they" -- not "we" -- practiced baptism for the dead; also Obadiah 21 has NOTHING to do with baptizing the dead!
9. Were our sins 'atoned' for in the Garden of Gethesemane? Lds say YES Lds misinterpret blood sweat in garden of Gethsemane as Jesus was praying as having "effect of atonement" (see official Lds magazine Ensign, for example: June 2007, p. 15) NO Col. 1:20; also Jesus never said "pick up your 'garden' and follow me" but said, "pick up your 'CROSS' and follow me"
10. Was Jesus quite violent at the point of His death? YES 3 Nephi 8:8-->3 Nephi 9:12, esp. 8:23; 9:12, Book of Mormon NO Jesus became sin (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:24) and became a curse (Gal. 3:13) on behalf of all, absorbing God's wrath on our behalf
11. Did Jesus really die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature? NOTHING CONCLUSIVE: Lds "scriptures" are all over the map on this one: Mormonism teaches that (a) children have no sin nature & "cannot sin until they begin to become accountable" (D&C 29:47) -- even tho the Lds Pearl of Great Price teaches that children are conceived in sin (Moses 6:55), which "jives" more with Psalm 51:5 and 58:3; (b) yet the Book of Mormon teaches that men have a "carnal and fallen state" and that unless "they become new creatures...unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God." (Mosiah 27:26)...adding in v. 25 & elsewhere in the BoM that they "must be born again"; but apparently that was all past tense in the pre-incarnational years of Jesus Christ, because Joseph Smith taught how Jesus redeemed men from the fall, making men "innocent before God" (D&C 93:38)...so men are "innocent" before God? (Oh, sure, that explains today's world "nicely") Article of Faith 2: "All men will be punished for own sin." BOTH 1 John 1:7-9; Romans 5:8-9
12. Is Christ's powerful atoning blood diluded to 'anemic' levels? YES Even tho a few Mormon "scriptures" emphasize the cleansing power of Christ's blood (see, for example Alma 7:14; D&C 76:41; Moses 6:59), Mormonism roots this in law-keeping (D&C 76:52) NO 1 John 1:7; Rev. 1:5; Rev. 5:9; Rev. 7:14; Heb. 13:12; Heb. 10:19; Eph. 1:7; Rom. 5:9
13. Is Jesus as unique as the Bible makes Him out to be? NO a: D&C 93:29; b: Moses 3:5; 6:36; Abraham 3:22-23, Pearl of Great Price; c: See references in #7; d: Misreading of Obadiah 21, Old Testament; e: Note references to "gods" as if true plural gods existed: D&C 76:58; D&C 121:28; 132:20,32,37; Moses 4:11; Lds also cite Spring 1844 King Follett sermon from Smith as if "revelational" -- how people have to "become gods themselves"; f: D&C 20:19 -- Only being to be worshiped is God, yet Mormons don't regard Jesus as same "being" as Heavenly Father YES! John 3:18: The "Only" Begotten Son from eternity, not one "spirit son" begotten in the pre-existence among millions!
14. Can Jesus be prayed to directly? NO, all Lds prayer is to Heavenly Father, but can be directed through Christ No Lds "scripture" to back this up; in fact, Lds "scripture" states the opposite! (see 3 Nephi 19:18, 24-26) YES! Acts 7:59

10 posted on 06/09/2013 8:16:00 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

we have a no solicitation ordinance where I live


11 posted on 06/09/2013 8:16:30 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: montag813

So Mormons should not be allowed to hold office, be judges, have businesses, or in other words, be allowed to function in a free country. Thank you for your open mindedness.

Oh, by the way, you need to add Catholics to your list of undesirables.


12 posted on 06/09/2013 8:18:34 AM PDT by District13 (I miss my country!)
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To: District13; montag813; All

Never mind that Reagan had a lot of Mormons working for him.. I think we should add Muslims to the list of undesirables as well..


13 posted on 06/09/2013 8:23:39 AM PDT by KevinDavis (The Bill of Rights is a suicide pact.)
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To: Morgana
Good question...

And, I do advocate people being hospitable hosts to Lds missionaries.

They work hard for a non-living.

Family expectations are a big reason they are there.

And many have yet to hear the true Gospel.

Be invitational. Be conversational. Be firm. Know what you believe -- and know a bit about what they believe. And yet don't assume that they are "down-the-line" Mormons on every believe; they are each unique individuals. Hence, treat them as such.

Still, even non-tow-the-line Mormons have a sense of tension about those areas they are at odds with Lds leadership. Because IF they have a firm conviction that Lds leaders are wrong/false on a few things, it only takes one false prophecy to be a false prophet...just as it only takes one theft to be a thief.

14 posted on 06/09/2013 8:28:00 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: District13; montag813; All
The Judge who ruled against Sheriff Joe Arpaio, Murray Snow is a Mormon who did his missionary work in Mexico and speaks fluent Spanish and made an absolute mockery of the law by declaring Arpaio's enforcement of the law "racial profiling" against a new race called "Latinos". Snow is disgusting and un-American- AND MORMON- AND his father is a BIG WIG in the LDS. It is time for a boycott of all LDS-owned businesses and entities until they stop protecting illegal alien lawbreakers and endorsing amnesty. [Montag813]

Response by District13 to Montag813: So Mormons should not be allowed to hold office, be judges, have businesses, or in other words, be allowed to function in a free country

So, District13, non-Mormons should NOT be allowed to NOT vote for whoever they want -- or don't want -- running for office or (retaining) certain judgeships?;
...they should NOT be allowed to boycott whatever businesses they want?
...and you call this then a "free country?"

Please pass on your dictatorial rules for voting & boycotting so that we might be in 100% compliance.

(Last time I looked, I thought character was still a measureable component when considering a candidate or considering retaining as a judge...we just didn't know that had been ruled "out of bounds" by you)

15 posted on 06/09/2013 8:35:00 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Mormons = Muslims: Started by child molesting murders so they could have sex with many women. Each nutjob called themselves “prophets”, rewrote the Bible to suit their greedy Earthly desires of sex with many women and children.


16 posted on 06/09/2013 8:38:50 AM PDT by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off. -786 +969)
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To: Colofornian

I hope they all drop by our house!


17 posted on 06/09/2013 8:47:03 AM PDT by DennisR (Look around - God gives countless, indisputable clues that He does, indeed, exist.)
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To: CodeToad

“Mormons = Muslims: Started by child molesting murders so they could have sex with many women. Each nutjob called themselves “prophets”, rewrote the Bible to suit their greedy Earthly desires of sex with many women and children.”

You seem a tad judgmental to me. Perhaps you were unable to get a good cup of coffee in Utah, but that shouldn’t spoil your whole weekend.


18 posted on 06/09/2013 8:50:39 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
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To: headsonpikes

“You seem a tad judgmental to me. Perhaps you were unable to get a good cup of coffee in Utah, but that shouldn’t spoil your whole weekend.”

You seem to have had the koolaid instead.


19 posted on 06/09/2013 8:54:35 AM PDT by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off. -786 +969)
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To: headsonpikes

P.S. The facts of the founders of these cults speak for themselves.


20 posted on 06/09/2013 8:55:05 AM PDT by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off. -786 +969)
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To: DennisR
Good attitude.

I'm simply advocating that people be prepared.

21 posted on 06/09/2013 8:55:54 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: headsonpikes; CodeToad; All
You seem a tad judgmental to me (said headsonpikes to CodeToad a bit judgmentally, failing to see the self-indictment in that post)
22 posted on 06/09/2013 8:57:25 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

If they come to my door they will have to listen to my views on Catholicism before I listen to any of their views.


23 posted on 06/09/2013 9:05:05 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Colofornian
Colofornian is often overly intense in his posting of the materials on Mormonism.(Overkill if you please.) However, his posts are often in the words of the Mormon founders and leaders and no one to my knowledge has stated he has posted materials falsely attributable to Mormon leaders or misstates said leaders own words. The words of the Mormons themselves express weird doctrines. It is fun to watch the Mormons bob, weave and split hairs in their forlorn attempt to avoid what was said or implied over the years by Mormon founders and leaders.
24 posted on 06/09/2013 9:08:16 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: Colofornian
Colofornian is often overly intense in his posting of the materials on Mormonism.(Overkill if you please.) However, his posts are often in the words of the Mormon founders and leaders and no one to my knowledge has stated he has posted materials falsely attributable to Mormon leaders or misstates said leaders own words. The words of the Mormons themselves express weird doctrines. It is fun to watch the Mormons bob, weave and split hairs in their forlorn attempt to avoid what was said or implied over the years by Mormon founders and leaders.
25 posted on 06/09/2013 9:09:12 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: Colofornian; CodeToad
Irony. You could look it up. Here, I saved you the trouble: From Wiki --Irony (from the Ancient Greek εἰρωνεία eirōneía, meaning dissimulation or feigned ignorance),[1] in its broadest sense, is a rhetorical device, literary technique, or event characterized by an incongruity, or contrast, between reality (what is) and appearance (what seems to be). The term may be further defined into several categories, among which are: verbal, dramatic, and situational. Verbal Irony[2] is an incongruity between what is said and what is meant. The discordance of verbal irony may be deliberately created as a means of communication (as in art or rhetoric). Dramatic Irony is an incongruity between what a character in a work of fiction believes to be true and what the audience knows to be true. Dramatic irony communicated the importance of a particular truth by portraying a person who is strikingly unaware of it, emphasizing a perceived truth. Situational Irony is an "incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal, [intended], or expected result."[3] Descriptions or depictions of situational irony, whether in fiction or in non-fiction, serve the communicative function of sharpening or highlighting certain discordant features of reality. Verbal, dramatic, and situational irony are often used for emphasis in the assertion of a truth. The ironic form of simile, used in sarcasm, and some forms of litotes emphasize one's meaning by the deliberate use of language which states the opposite of the truth — or drastically and obviously understates a factual connection. Other forms include dialectic and practical, as identified by Thirlwall. I hope this has helped(despite formatting probs).
26 posted on 06/09/2013 9:10:19 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
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To: Colofornian

Why do continually post this nonsense?

I don’t agree with the LDS doctrine and I have two Morman’s work for me. We don’t discuss religion and have mutual respect. Why don’t you give that a try?


27 posted on 06/09/2013 9:11:25 AM PDT by Fullclip
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To: headsonpikes

Proverbs 3:21

My son, preserve sound judgment and DISCERNment, do not let them out of your sight;

Proverbs 28:11

A rich man may be wise in his own eyes, but a poor man who has DISCERNment sees through him.

1 John 4:1 ESV

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but TEST the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

John 7:24 ESV

Do not judge by appearances, but JUDGE with right judgment.

1 Timothy 6:3-5 ESV

If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.

Matthew 10:16 ESV

“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so BE WISE as serpents and innocent as doves.

2 Corinthians 11:4 ESV

For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

Acts 17:11 ESV

Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, EXAMINING the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

1 Kings 3:11 ESV

And God said to him, “Because you have asked this, and have not asked for yourself long life or riches or the life of your enemies, but have asked for yourself understanding to DISCERN what is right,


28 posted on 06/09/2013 9:15:29 AM PDT by My hearts in London - Everett (Gingrich or bust! (5/7/12, I guess it's bust.))
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To: Jeff Head

Hey!

Hadn’t seen you in a while.

How’s life?


29 posted on 06/09/2013 9:19:42 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Colofornian

Poor kids go out with stars in their eyes, work sometimes 16 hours a day, get managed with overwhelming supervision, have rules that are almost unbelievable and now are sending out little boys and little girls who have mostly never understood their beliefs and in most cases are not ready for what is about to happen.

Our neighbor’s daughter came to see us in December to announce her mission call. Of course we congratulated her. She had no clue about what was about to happen. Within three weeks she came to pieces, returning home because of physical and mental exhaustion. I could tell by the look in her eyes that she had figured a few things out.

In 1960 I would have done the same thing except for the social consequences of failing so I stuck it out.

And I do not need any lectures from Bible pounders or true believers here on Free Republic. I just feel really sorry for all of these poor kids that are so indoctrinated and have no clue about what is about to happen to them. And six are my grand nieces and nephews.


30 posted on 06/09/2013 9:20:18 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: My hearts in London - Everett

Discerning what is right is the entire task of moral intelligence and is a lifetime’s work.

Do not presume to have completed that effort.


31 posted on 06/09/2013 9:24:16 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

For some reason my post was truncated. I further said: by the very words of the Mormon founders and leaders over the years Smith was a false prophet and Mormonism is an obviously false religion deceiving many.


32 posted on 06/09/2013 9:24:47 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: Jeff Head; montag813

I agree with Jeff.

A few bad apples doesn’t not create an epidemic within certain groups.

Further, it’s damned difficult for many businesses to wee out applicants who are illegal.

In fact, it’s against the law to ask about their status on the one hand, on the other it’s suppose to be unlawful for them to hire an illegal.

Thing is, we know when a person is here illegally by intuition and certain behaviors on the illegal’s part.

Still, there are boocoo fines for “discrimination” when one learns or has enough evidence to believe they are illegal.

When an employer attempts to live within the law and social construct of American ideals they are faced with a disturbing conundrum.


33 posted on 06/09/2013 9:28:14 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Fullclip; All
I have two Morman’s work for me. We don’t discuss religion and have mutual respect. Why don’t you give that a try?

Your two Mormon employees, if they have kids, probably have had or will have kids-who-turn into Lds missionaries. They WILL discuss religion with others -- even strangers. And yet you, who operate on a friendly basis & "mutual respect" won't even discuss your faith life??? Why not?

Are you ashamed of your faith life? Is only these missionary kids' faith life one worth advocating to others -- even strangers -- that you can't be bothered to share your own with people you share "mutual respect" for?

If you claim to be a Christian, Jesus said to "go and make disciples of all ethnic groups" -- all identity classes -- as part of His Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20). Why don't you give that a try?

34 posted on 06/09/2013 9:39:51 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS; All
Re: "overly intense" -- I don't apologize...after all, the apostle Paul said in Galatians 4:18: It is fine to be zealous, provided the purpose is good, and to be so always, not just when I am with you.

I mean, I have even commended Lds missionaries for their zeal -- even when their "purpose" wasn't good!

Strange tho how some Christians (not referencing you, A.P.) can openly commended Lds missionaries who give 60-70 hour weeks for two years; yet when it comes to Christians who give time to comparing the true Christian gospel vs. the false Mormon one, they shrink back.

35 posted on 06/09/2013 9:43:56 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Vendome
Thank you.

Life is good. The good Lord has been kind and merciful to me and mine.

My experiences with chordoma bone cancer of the spine continue, but I have been preserved thus far for His ends, and am eternally grateful to all who exercised their faith on my behalf.

Been doing a lot with grandkids, and kids and their spouses. With the wife. Been contributing and spreading the good world on Facebook a lot...and here as well.

Again, thanks for asking and God's speed and blessings to you and yours.

36 posted on 06/09/2013 10:11:33 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: headsonpikes

It’s not that hard when you’ve read the Bible. God didn’t make Christianity a complicated endeavor only completed upon death. Discerning or judging what’s right or wrong, a lie or misleading is not that difficult with the Bible giving guidance. I don’t presume anything.


37 posted on 06/09/2013 10:52:47 AM PDT by My hearts in London - Everett (Gingrich or bust! (5/7/12, I guess it's bust.))
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To: Williams

I’ve had LDS and JWs come to my house. Once they step inside, after about 15 minutes they try to escape, but I then ask them other questions and keep them here for another 15 minutes, then are glad to escape!

I love it when it is real HOT and my AC is off.

They never come back.


38 posted on 06/09/2013 11:19:14 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Utah Binger

***I just feel really sorry for all of these poor kids that are so indoctrinated and have no clue about what is about to happen to them.***

I had LDS friends in Farmington NM whose son was on a mission trip, but he was not a missionary. His job was to council missionaries and keep them from leaving LDS.

One missionary he counciled was so disheartened he wanted to commit suicide.


39 posted on 06/09/2013 11:26:12 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

One missionary he counciled was so disheartened he wanted to commit suicide.

_______________________________________________________

That is the other side of the story that never gets told.
I remember several that couldn’t get out of bed for days.


40 posted on 06/09/2013 12:41:18 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Jeff Head

“Like Reid, there are LDS who choose wrong, who use bad judgment, “


Judgment? Your entire religion is based on a “burning of the bosom” to tell you how Indians are actually cursed Jews, and how if you’re good enough you might have the chance to become a polygamous god of your own planet.


41 posted on 06/09/2013 1:36:55 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Utah Binger

Utah, this story does get told.

It is just not ever announced as the point story in the press. The privancy of the individuals involved is always attempted to be protected.

But, when something like this happens, the leadership and members in every knows something of it. Individual’s talk about it, including the person involved. Family members talk about it. Depending on the circumstances, the church leadership is completely appraised. In the councils of the leadership of thos ewards, they come together to try and help individuals who have such difficulties.

We have a good friend of one of our sons when that son went to France, this young man went to Mississippi. He lasted 10-11 months and came home with severe emotional issues. We are close to the family and they sought our help, including the young man involved. He knew us well, and we talked numerous times. As did many others in the ward.

He has gotten on with his life. Graduated in Computer Science and has taken a very good job with a School District down in the DFW area of Texas. I talk to him every 4-6 weeks and we will stop on our next trip down to MD Anderson and see him.

When you have 85,000 people involved in a program like this, where a strict schedule, discipline, and a lot of hard work is expected...then you are going to have some of these types of things take placve. It is part of our condition in mortality. Heck, we see it all the time in the US military, which service we all respect. It does not mean military service is bad, and it certainly does not mean necessarily that the individual has “done bad.”

So, having myself served, and now having had both of my sons serve, and having worked with these young men before, during, and after their service, I can tell you that the percentages are very small...but they are not taken lightly at all, and there is a huge effort to ensure that their is no “pallor” over the heads of those who have to come home for such reasons.

Now, it is a little more difficult when one of them gets out there and does really bad things...like fornication, or stealing, or something like that and then is sent home having either been dis-fellowshipped or excommunicated. As I am sure you are aware, that happens too every so often.

But when it does, we still try and work with them and try and help them get their life back in order, repent, and return to full fellowship in the church if they are willing...and their personal experience (other than them being home early) is not something that is trumpted about and used to beat them over the head with...at least not by the church itself. Their privacy is respected.

Anyhow...as you say...it is something that is difficult and that the Church and its leadership and members have to deal with.


42 posted on 06/10/2013 7:20:13 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Jeff Head

Jeff, the story I suspect really is that certain of these kids should not go out in the first place. That severe social pressure is why I went and the absolute terror and shame of coming home early cannot be discounted.

When I got my call I had just been away at USU, had gone active in a fraternity and had a regular habit of Camel cigarettes. I had never attained anything close to being a true believer but went anyway because failing to do so would have caused such grief in my family that it was easier to go than not. To my wonderful surprise I went to Denmark and I worked very hard; had more conversions than anyone in the mission and ended up as the Branch President of Hjorring.

The first thing I did on my release was to buy a pack of Camel cigarettes, toured Europe for a month, went home and reported and remained a member in name only.

I am very proud of my heritage. Just never really believed the dogma.


43 posted on 06/10/2013 9:17:56 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Utah Binger

As you know, they give interviews for the mission call and ask all sorts of questions. Unless the interviewer knows differently, or has some sort of inspiration to the contrary (and sometimes that does happens) then they believe what they are told and off they go.

Particularly up into the 1980s theere was a much greater tendancy to not delve into it, and quite a few went purely because of pressure from parents and/or others. I saw it myself in Germany.

I was a a convert myself of about four years at the time and was very hyped and charged about going, and remain pretty much so to this day. I had to work with several missionaries who were having difficultoies to find out how they really felt and what e might do to address their issue as I was called into some leadership positions on the mission.

My recommendation to the Mission President and others was almost always that if they were out there without a testimony, they had no business being there. In a few cases they were sent home...in others I was asked to continue working with them...which I did, but I also tried to shield them from situations where they would have to be anything less than completely honest when teching or talking to others about the Church. If they could not be...then I found other things for them to do.

Just like goes on in the military for people who get in and then you find out they cannot do the job. You find work for them that does not threaten the safety or cohesion of the group.

Beginnning in the mid 80s however, there was, and has continued to this day, to be a much more dedicated effort to delve into the individual missionairy’s testimony and motivations through the process, including the interviews. In far, far more cases, since that time, the effort has been to not send anyone who is not absolutely convicted in what they are doing.

Still, the old tradtions and pressures are not easy to overcome and particularly in some placs in Utah, there are still too manby who go for the wrong reasons. Some of them (as was the case earlier) get out there and find themselves, but others never do...and you cannot really have the expectations that they will. Those incidents are not good for anyone...either the person there, the people they meet, or the church overall.

As I say, in any large group like this, there is going to be unavoidably some of this...but I can say that the Church has tried to address it.


44 posted on 06/10/2013 9:36:05 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Colofornian

I wish all of them would come by my house!


45 posted on 06/10/2013 9:40:40 AM PDT by ForAmerica (Texas Conservative Christian Black Man!)
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To: Colofornian

Good for them and best of luck!


46 posted on 06/10/2013 9:41:24 AM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: montag813

They rang my doorbell five years ago...I told them I believe that Joseph Smith found the golden plates about twenty minutes after he found the ‘golden mushrooms’...haven’t seen them since.


47 posted on 06/10/2013 9:46:04 AM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar; Utah Binger
I had LDS friends in Farmington NM whose son was on a mission trip, but he was not a missionary. His job was to council missionaries and keep them from leaving LDS.

Returning missionaries are departing the church in droves. Sending younger, even less mature into the fire will just increase that trend. Unfortunately the pressures exerted on them by families/church will cause many to break in many ways.

48 posted on 06/10/2013 9:48:41 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Godzilla

Salt Lake Tribune: “The number of suicides in Utah has almost doubled over seven years. In 2005, there were 350 suicides in Utah; preliminary state Department of Health data shows 540 suicides in 2012.”


49 posted on 06/10/2013 10:19:10 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Godzilla; All
Returning missionaries are departing the church in droves. Sending younger, even less mature into the fire will just increase that trend. Unfortunately the pressures exerted on them by families/church will cause many to break in many ways.

Yes, they are; but there's a "dual effect" that goes on...a high % discover some things about Mormonism -- and about themselves -- and slowly jumpstart their eventual exodus out...But there's also a % who are "steeled" by the experience...and, long-term-wise, wind up being both higher givers to the cult as well as a key pool for future leadership fodder.

(And, hey, somebody's gotta clean the Mormon facilities' toilets for free!)

50 posted on 06/10/2013 11:50:19 AM PDT by Colofornian
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