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1 posted on 06/20/2013 4:55:29 PM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

wish we’d all heard more homilies on what a gift liberty is and that it requires sober responsibility to protect instead of all those ones I heard about how America is “too individualist” how much “the rich owe to the poor” etc etc.


2 posted on 06/20/2013 5:05:34 PM PDT by schm0e ("we are in the midst of a coup.")
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To: markomalley

Not just for Catholics. I guess we’re beginning to learn that even if morality can’t be “legislated” (a shaky argument at best), immorality assuredly can be. But Might Makes Right, wrong-headed and unpopular even in liberal environments though it is, thrives in this so-called enlightened culture. Bring back classical philosophy, oh, academe!


3 posted on 06/20/2013 5:13:32 PM PDT by Mach9
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To: markomalley

praying for the day when more church-goers take an interest in what their state legislatures are doing.

Those Christians who refuse to govern themselves will be ruled by evil men.


4 posted on 06/20/2013 5:26:02 PM PDT by campaignPete R-CT (we're the Beatniks now)
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To: markomalley
I love to see the pious pontificate on "legitimate" wealth.

Who or what is the arbiter of that?

5 posted on 06/20/2013 5:38:21 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: markomalley
As a follower of Jesus Christ .. no Christian can admit or support the idea that the state is superior .. or even that they are equal. That’s quite a statement. The state is subordinate to the Church. Period.

Actually, they are superior in their own area. The Church (Pope) is superior in things spiritual and the State (King or Govt) is superior in things temporal.

This subject was explained quite successfully by St. Robert Bellarmine and Francisco Suarez in the early 1600s when they responded to James I's claim that he had a divine right to force the Catholics to swear allegiance to him because of his "spiritual" superiority.

The Church was given her command by Jesus Himself, whereas the king receives his authority from man and not God. Therefore, the Church is superior in the spiritual realm and the king has no divine right to rule.

Bellarmine made another very interesting point which was quite novel at the time: If the Pope is superior in things spiritual and the king is superior in things temporal, then the Pope has indirect spiritual authority over the king in things spiritual. So, each has primary authority but in different arenas.

7 posted on 06/20/2013 8:33:14 PM PDT by Slyfox (Without the Right to Life, all other rights are meaningless.)
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To: markomalley; darrellmaurina
The relationship between the Church and the State is not one of equals. As a follower of Jesus Christ .. no Christian can admit or support the idea that the state is superior .. or even that they are equal. That’s quite a statement. The state is subordinate to the Church. Period. This is not earth-shaking news to the faithful Catholic – but it is shattering news to the general population who has come to view the state as the guardian and protector and even the grantor of their individual liberty. Such a view is not Catholic .. is not rooted in faith in Jesus Christ. But so many people simply travel along the road paved by the western democracies which has led to the conclusion by the general populace that liberty means doing whatever you want and that government’s role is to protect this false notion. Government has taken on this mantle – the advancement of whatever someone wants to do as his “right” and using the powers of the state to enforce that – even over and above the questions of morality.

A sure mark of the ascendancy of the state over the Church is when immorality is given the protection of the law. From that point .. the next step is the outlawing of what is moral....

....the Church does NOT automatically see the state as an enemy. It recognizes that the need for a state is self-evident – roads must be paved, order established among quarreling parties, criminals punished, etc. Everything that bears in mind that the final end of man is Heaven and constructs a society where this end is best able to be encouraged. In short – the common good must be given an environment in which it can flourish. And the Church has worked with various forms of government over the millennia to achieve the common good. But this has happened effectively ONLY when it is recognized that the state is at the service the Church which hands on the objectively moral standards and truths about man – which the Church is ALSO at the service of.

When the state regresses to a point where it assumes an attitude of superiority over the Church – then it’s “Nellie bar the doors”. America has passed a point of no return .. because too many have handed over to the state a false decision making power in the area of morality. Having done this, the state will re- define liberty and freedom and reduce it to little else than a historical footnote. And all this because God and His laws were rejected. The nation as a nation is beyond salvation.

Ping for later.

9 posted on 06/21/2013 5:16:34 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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