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Jews Tell Pope of Concern Over Moves to Make Pius XII a Saint
Reuters via Yahoo News ^ | 6/24/13 | Philip Pullella

Posted on 06/25/2013 7:12:18 AM PDT by marshmallow

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - A Jewish leader expressed concern to Pope Francis on Monday over attempts to make a saint of World War Two-era Pope Pius XII, who has been accused of turning a blind eye to the Holocaust.

Francis made no mention of his wartime predecessor during his talks with members of the International Jewish Committee for Interreligious Consultations (IJCIC), but the pontiff repeated the Roman Catholic Church's condemnation of anti-Semitism.

"The Jewish community continues to be concerned about efforts to canonize Pope Pius XII while innumerable documents pertaining to the history of the Church and the Jewish people during the dark years of the Holocaust still remain closed to outside scholarly investigation," IJCIC chairman Lawrence Schiffman told the pope.

The issue of whether the Vatican and the Church under Pius did all they could to help Jews has dogged Catholic-Jewish relations for decades. Pius became pontiff in 1939, the year World War Two broke out, and reigned until 1958.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Judaism
KEYWORDS: antisemitism; hitlerspope; popepiusxii

1 posted on 06/25/2013 7:12:18 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

I thought a ‘saint’ had to be proven to have performed a miracle ... not be a popular person.


2 posted on 06/25/2013 7:16:21 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof, but they're true.)
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To: marshmallow

Pius XII helped Jews to escape the Holocaust. The only complaints about him is that he wasn’t outspoken enough against the Nazi regime. If he had been, however, he would have had less influence and would not have saved as many Jews. I wonder why they don’t complain as much about George Soros, who actually helped the Nazis to round up Jews. According to them, he was just doing what anyone would do to survive, being a Jew himself.


3 posted on 06/25/2013 7:28:29 AM PDT by Telepathic Intruder (The only thing the Left has learned from the failures of socialism is not to call it that)
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To: Telepathic Intruder

If he had been more outspoken, more Jews would have been killed summarily in response, and the Axis might’ve marched on Vatican City.


4 posted on 06/25/2013 7:38:26 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (Rome didn't fall in a day, either.)
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To: marshmallow

Pius certainly provided more assistance during the holocaust than Christians got from other folks during the Roman persecution.

Per sainthood though, keep in mind that Pius’ actions when Hitler was on the scene was not saintly, nor was it collaboration.

It was pragmatic.

He did what he could without going too far because he knew Catholics would likely be a target if he aggravated Hitler.

He took as primary role, protection of Catholics, sort of his job.


5 posted on 06/25/2013 7:40:03 AM PDT by fruser1
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To: knarf

“not be a popular person.”

Or even a particulary good person. St. Paul was a pretty foul guy, self-admitted. Aside from his horrid acts pre-Christ, you can tell he was difficult to be around from his letters, and probably pretty foul.

It’s those crappy people that God uses that prove the miracle.*+

* Note I am NOT joining the chorus sayign Pius XII was a Nazi-collaborator or whatever. Just noting that such acts are irrelevant.

+ FWIW, I don’t believe Pious was collaborator. I do believe he looked the other way to some limited degree, but I think he pretty much had to do so, being powerless politically and practically to stop Hiter and Musolini in a straightforward manner, so he didn’t rock the boat and went about quietly saving Jews and Christians without getting himself and everyone at the Vatican murdered. Difficult times, and he was in a very difficult spot, so I am not going to second-guess him.


6 posted on 06/25/2013 7:42:26 AM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Dole are sure losers. No more!)
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To: marshmallow

It will be very interesting to see how the Pope responds to this. This is a Church matter. Deciding who is canonized as a saint is between God and the Church. No one should be telling the Pope who should or shouldn’t be a saint.


7 posted on 06/25/2013 7:43:49 AM PDT by piusv
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To: marshmallow

I thought a lot of archival info was going to be released or made available. I agree with the concerns that he should not be made a Saint with a capital S until people get a good look at all the evidence.


8 posted on 06/25/2013 7:46:31 AM PDT by married21
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To: knarf
I thought a ‘saint’ had to be proven to have performed a miracle ... not be a popular person.

Ha! Old Teddy Kennedy is on a fast track to sainthood... why he is the godfather of socialized medicine and open borders. Old Teddy Kennedy is the future saint of 'social just-us'. Mommy Nancy won't be far behind in saint selections. God elected saints regardless of what Rome claims.

9 posted on 06/25/2013 7:49:03 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: marshmallow

Doesn’t the jews have enough to worry about ,rather than intrude on the Catholic Church.
They seem to have more to say than I, and I am a Catholic for seven Decadws


10 posted on 06/25/2013 7:51:12 AM PDT by chatham
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To: TheThirdRuffian

“Or even a particulary good person”

He should be a good person (at least at the end), but not necessarily a “nice” person.


11 posted on 06/25/2013 8:03:05 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There's no salvation in politics.)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: Just mythoughts
God elected saints regardless of what Rome claims.

Sure, forget about the authority that Christ gave the Church prior to His ascension.

13 posted on 06/25/2013 8:20:48 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Electorate data confirms Resolute Conservative voted for Soetoro)
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828 By canonizing some of the faithful, i.e., by solemnly proclaiming that they practiced heroic virtue and lived in fidelity to God's grace, the Church recognizes the power of the Spirit of holiness within her and sustains the hope of believers by proposing the saints to them as models and intercessors.303 "The saints have always been the source and origin of renewal in the most difficult moments in the Church's history."304 Indeed, "holiness is the hidden source and infallible measure of her apostolic activity and missionary zeal."305


14 posted on 06/25/2013 8:25:16 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Electorate data confirms Resolute Conservative voted for Soetoro)
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To: piusv

Many people think they can tell the Church what to do and get in arms when the Church asserts that only the Pope can.

Odd, isn’t it that the same ones who attack papal infalliability believe in their own infalliability.


15 posted on 06/25/2013 8:35:47 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: Just mythoughts

“God elected saints”

[[scripture citation needed]]


16 posted on 06/25/2013 8:36:54 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: marshmallow

Perhaps the Catholic Church should reply to the Jews, “It’s not always about you”.


17 posted on 06/25/2013 8:42:00 AM PDT by Hacksaw (I haven't taken the 30 silvers.)
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To: Hacksaw

It’s “a jew”. Not “the jews”.


18 posted on 06/25/2013 8:56:39 AM PDT by AceMineral (History always favors the winners.)
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To: marshmallow

Just curious, did any Jewish person in Germany or Italy save as many Jews during the Holocaust as did the Pope?

I’m guessing it’s possible in Italy, where Rome has had a large Jewish community for ages, and there would have been somewhat more freedom of action than under Hitler. In Germany I’m sure Jews didn’t have enough freedom to help their own.

However, I’m not aware of anyone in Germany or Italy who saved more.


19 posted on 06/25/2013 9:55:34 AM PDT by Williams (No Obama)
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To: Williams

Many times Hitler railed to his generals about wanting to go in and take over the Vatican.


20 posted on 06/25/2013 9:56:44 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: TheThirdRuffian
St. Paul was a pretty foul guy, self-admitted. Aside from his horrid acts pre-Christ, you can tell he was difficult to be around from his letters, and probably pretty foul.

Tell us more.

21 posted on 06/25/2013 10:10:39 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: A.A. Cunningham
Sure, forget about the authority that Christ gave the Church prior to His ascension.

I will attempt to choose my words carefully. Paul said in Ephesians 1:4 that the 'saints'/elect/chosen/elected' were predestined before the casting down - overthrow of that world that WAS according to IIPeter 3:... Genesis 1:2.

Wonder why Christ never made Rome a priority of even a stop over in His flesh journey. But according to the 'traditions of Glastonbury He did travel to the Isles that Rome could NOT conquer. I am beginning to think the objective is to punish all protesters since Christ walked this earth.

22 posted on 06/25/2013 11:00:41 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: JCBreckenridge
Welllll, IF your current catechism still contains the WORDS written by Paul, how about Ephesians 1:4... The saints/elect/chosen/set aside/ took place in the first heaven/earth world/age. ‘You know’ the one that Peter writes about in IIPeter 3? It would seem given all the bragging done about handing down the WORD the masses would at least know about the ‘foundation of the world’, really means the casting-down - overthrow of that first rebel (Lucifer) in the first heaven/earth world/age. Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 describe in full detail about that one that tempted Christ as His first mission in His flesh journey.

But hey if Rome does not teach it then it does not matter to their traditions, leaving the member null and void of what is yet to come.

23 posted on 06/25/2013 11:08:05 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: marshmallow

I would think that a person would either be a Saint or not, how could any one except God make them one?

I think religion is nuts.


24 posted on 06/25/2013 11:16:36 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Just mythoughts

Oddly enough the word Saint does not appear anywhere in 1 Ephesians 4.


25 posted on 06/25/2013 11:16:49 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: Tanniker Smith

The one issue I have with the Church, was what happened in Croatia during the war.


26 posted on 06/25/2013 11:19:05 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: JCBreckenridge
Oddly enough the word Saint does not appear anywhere in 1 Ephesians 4.

Snicker!!!! The oddity is the inflamed egos that claim authority of what was NEVER given. God keeps the only 'record book' that counts.... He even says so, but then that would be sola scripture and NOT acceptable to the gods in Rome.

Imagine all the wasted time, money, and hails, when they never reach the intended party.

27 posted on 06/25/2013 11:20:38 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts

“God keeps the only ‘record book’ that counts”

[[Scriptural citation needed!]]


28 posted on 06/25/2013 11:28:45 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: Just mythoughts
I will attempt to choose my words carefully.

And you failed in your attempt.

"As He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and unspotted in His sight in charity." Ephesians 1:4

Wonder why Christ never made Rome a priority of even a stop over in His flesh journey.

Much of what Christ said and did doesn't appear in Scripture just as Scripture tells us. But, heh, don't let that get in the way of your inept argument.

"Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book." John 20:30

"But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written." John 21:25

But according to the 'traditions of Glastonbury

"Domine, quo vadis?"

"Eo Romam iterum crucifigi."

Tradition of Chiesa del Domine Quo Vadis

29 posted on 06/25/2013 11:51:57 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Electorate data confirms Resolute Conservative voted for Soetoro)
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To: Alex Murphy

“Tell us more.”

Read his letters yourself. It’s not like the Gideons don’t pass out the Bible.

Standing around, if not encouring the throwers, when the first martyr for Christ was stoned to death is “up there” in the “asshole” category.

The fact that God can take someone as foul as that and make him an amaxing pillar and witness (and eventually martyr) of the faith is, itself, amazing evidence of God’s power.


30 posted on 06/25/2013 12:58:47 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Dole are sure losers. No more!)
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To: JCBreckenridge; Just mythoughts

Romans 8:33


31 posted on 06/25/2013 2:49:34 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: marshmallow
Due to our common roots, a Christian cannot be anti-Semitic," he told the delegation from IJCIC, an umbrella group that represents most major Jewish organizations and all streams of Jewish thought.

Well, your pope just reclassified all mid east Catholics to non Christian status...

32 posted on 06/25/2013 7:30:26 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: A.A. Cunningham
I will attempt to choose my words carefully. And you failed in your attempt. "As He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and unspotted in His sight in charity." Ephesians 1:4

The failure here is that ignored meaning of 'the foundation' is the casting down / overthrow in that world that Peter calls 'that WAS'. The souls that were not tempted by Lucifer when he rebelled and decided he was god are the 'saints', the elect/chosen, already justified. Lucifer is the only named entity that has already been judged to be destroyed from within. And yet Christ gave us the example of Him being tempted by the devil. The devil made quite an offer, strangely as if he really deceived himself that Christ could be tempted. That was done for us to demonstrate what is the first tribulation.

Wonder why Christ never made Rome a priority of even a stop over in His flesh journey.

Much of what Christ said and did doesn't appear in Scripture just as Scripture tells us. But, heh, don't let that get in the way of your inept argument.

Oh, how I have longed to use that non-sequitur to a haughty pious person. Christ instructed His Church to be watchmen and it was not Rome He said to watch.

"Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book." John 20:30 "But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written." John 21:25

Yet before those elected/chosen by God before the casting down - overthrow, could place on plant fibers or animal skins, what was done/said by Christ in His flesh journey, Christ said in Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. Then after making that proclamation Christ quotes Isaiah. NOT some man designated saint.

Rome has its cart way out in front of the donkey. God/Christ does not need the church, the church needs the Creator and His Only Begotten Son. Jesus is not being held behind the curtain in Rome wherein some flesh man claims he has the 'keys' to have access.

But according to the 'traditions of Glastonbury "Domine, quo vadis?" "Eo Romam iterum crucifigi." Tradition of Chiesa del Domine Quo Vadis

33 posted on 06/25/2013 7:50:08 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: chatham

“They seem to have more to say than I, and I am a Catholic for seven decades”

I already refer to him as St. Pius XII; I know he is a saint. Maybe in 50 years they’ll get the message.


34 posted on 06/26/2013 3:51:53 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

I was educated in Catholic Schools and taught every catholic who goes to heaven is a Saint, and so is
St Pius XII


35 posted on 06/26/2013 6:47:42 AM PDT by chatham
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To: chatham

“I was educated in Catholic Schools and taught every catholic who goes to heaven is a Saint, and so is
St Pius XII”

I like that; he’s with St. Pius IX as well (another one being obstructed in his canonization, by the same crowd). He called the first Vatican council.


36 posted on 06/26/2013 4:56:28 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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