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Jimmy Carter vs. Blessed Virgin Mary Regarding the Male Priest
Canterbury Tales ^ | June 24, 2013 | Taylor Marshall

Posted on 06/25/2013 2:24:03 PM PDT by NYer


President Carter seems very concerned about the Catholic doctrine of the male priesthood. Speaking at the Carter Center's "Mobilizing Faith for Women" the former President answered some questions about women and religion. Let's look at his words against the Catholic Church and then I'll provide three systematic responses:
"And I think the great religions have set the example for that, by ordaining, in effect, that women are not equal to men in the eyes of God. This has been done and still is done by the Catholic Church ever since the third century, when the Catholic Church ordained that a woman cannot be a priest for instance but a man can. A woman can be a nurse or a teacher but she can’t be a priest. This is wrong, I think. 
And again, President Carter says: "And then after about the third century when men took over control of the Catholic Church, then they began to ordain that women had to play an inferior position, not be a priest."
Now I can understand where President Carter is coming from. First, he and his wife are Baptists. As Baptists they do not believe in a sacerdotal doctrine of the priesthood. 

Unlike the Baptists, the Catholic Church believes that the priesthood is not merely a ministerial function or office. Rather, when a man is ordained a priest, he is configured to Christ in a special way. His soul changes. We call this the indelible seal or character of Holy Orders. This is why there have never been women priests in the Catholic Church - not in the third, second, or first century. Never.

1. Jimmy Carter, Let's Take a Look at the Mystery of the Transubstantiation

Not only does the priest's soul undergo a metaphysical change, but the priest loans his own body and voice to Christ when he recites in the Holy Mass "This is my body." This act transubstantiates bread into the true Body of Christ.

Let's pause here. This is my body. Human bodies come in two versions: male and female. God designed it this way. Both sexes image God because, as the Church teaches, both sexes are ensouled and rational. See Genesis for details.

However, when the priest says, "This is my body," he is acting in persona Christi (in the person of Christ). Now then Christ is male. He was circumcised. The body that He offered on the cross was male. For this reason, only men can be priests because the Catholic Church mystically identifies the male Body of Christ with each and every male priest. The sacramental signification requires a man to stand in for the God-Man Jesus Christ at the altar.

2. Jimmy Carter and Clericalism

Secondly, President Carter unknowingly slips into clericalism. Clericalism is the insidious belief that clergy are de facto holier and more important than everyone else. As a Baptist, he likely sees his pastor as a CEO and/or a gifted public speaker. These functions parallel those of secular companies. Hence, to exclude women is, in his mind, sexist.

But the Catholic Church does not see priests as CEOs or primarily as preachers/teachers. Rather, priests are chiefly "fathers." Their relationship to other people is not transactional, it's paternal. Only a dad can be a dad. Again, it's a male thing. The Aramaic word for "father" is Abba meaning "giver of love."

3. Jimmy Carter, please meet the Blessed Virgin Mary

Here's the third and final thought:

I'd like to point out that the Catholic Church explicitly teaches that the greatest human person ever created is the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Mary is not only a woman, she is the Woman. The Catholic Church also teaches that she is higher than all Catholic priests, even higher than the twelve apostles. In fact, she is higher than every single angel. 

The priesthood, even the papacy, is not the highest "job" in the Catholic Church. In fact, the Catholic Church features many beautiful female saints in the canon of the Mass. I would even argue that the Catholic Church celebrates femininity more than any other religion and certainly more than any other Christian denomination. 


At the end of the day, the Catholic Church teaches that it is holiness and intimacy with Christ that is most important, not being a priest. As a former Episcopal priest, I could go on to be a married Catholic priest. But I chose not to do so. Why? Because I realized that my personal "yes" to God is enough. Nothing more is needed of me. 

I love priests. I kiss the hand of every priest I meet. I truly love priests because without them there is no Holy Eucharist and no supernatural life in the world. However, as my former spiritual director Father Ron Gillis (who died just last week) taught me, "At the front of most Catholic churches are not side altars dedicated to Peter and Paul, but to Joseph and Mary - a reminder that the priesthood supports the Church and not the other way around." 

That's a beautiful and simple lesson for all of us.

May Father Ron Gillis rest in peace. It's too bad that he could not have shared that insight with President Jimmy Carter.

Fr Ron Gillis, rest in peace. Please say a Hail Mary for the repose of his soul.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Worship
KEYWORDS: baptist; carter

1 posted on 06/25/2013 2:24:03 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...
For the benefit of non-catholic visitors who have a problem with the catholic use of the word "Father" to address a priest:

Catholics know that as members of a parish, they have been committed to a priest’s spiritual care, thus they have great filial affection for priests and call them "father." Priests, in turn, follow the apostles’ biblical example by referring to members of their flock as "my son" or "my child" (cf. Gal. 4:19; 1 Tim. 1:18; 2 Tim. 2:1; Philem. 10; 1 Pet. 5:13; 1 John 2:1; 3 John 4).

All of these passages were written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and they express the infallibly recorded truth that Christ’s ministers do have a role as spiritual fathers. Jesus is not against acknowledging that. It is he who gave these men their role as spiritual fathers, and it is his Holy Spirit who recorded this role for us in the pages of Scripture. To acknowledge spiritual fatherhood is to acknowledge the truth, and no amount of anti-Catholic grumbling will change that fact.

Call No Man "Father"?

2 posted on 06/25/2013 2:26:17 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: NYer

Carter was president. Why didn’t he crack down on such an evil cult when he had the chance?


3 posted on 06/25/2013 2:29:15 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: NYer

Carter was president. Why didn’t he crack down on such an evil cult when he had the chance?


4 posted on 06/25/2013 2:29:15 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: NYer

Well the answer is simple, stay the F*C* out out other peoples religion if you don’t like it. Isn’t that SUPPOSED to be one of the founding principles of our country, freedom of religion? Why , oh why, couldn’t the Founding Fathers have put a Freedom From Clymers clause in the Constitution! It would have saved us from people like Carter, Gore, Pelosi, Reid and so many,many others!


5 posted on 06/25/2013 2:29:43 PM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: NYer
And the Catholics make women enter through separate doors and worship separately from the men. And if a Catholic woman is raped, she is stoned for adultery. And little Catholic girls undergo FGM at puberty. And Catholic girls get acid thrown in their faces for spurning Catholic boys. Right.

MYOB Jimmy.

6 posted on 06/25/2013 2:31:12 PM PDT by informavoracious (We're being "punished" with Stanley Ann's baby. Obamacare: shovel-ready healthcare.)
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To: NYer

Sez in peanuts biography that james earl carter be a baptist.

So yimmy. Deal with your own faith And let the RCs deal with theirs


7 posted on 06/25/2013 2:35:02 PM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Vaquero

Do the Baptists even want him?


8 posted on 06/25/2013 2:36:30 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: JCBreckenridge
Which Baptists. Back about year 2000, Jimmuh told the Southern Baptist Convention to FOAD, and joined up with a liberal Baptist group.

He was particularly incensed over the SBC's refusal to ordain women, and it's insistence that homosexual behaviour is unacceptable.

La plus ca change ...

9 posted on 06/25/2013 2:39:11 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: NYer

I can’t wait not to watch this dork’s funeral.


10 posted on 06/25/2013 2:39:21 PM PDT by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1)
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To: NYer

The second worst President of the United States, the self-proclaimed Southern Baptist, the known anti-Semite and anti-Catholic now has the audacity to tell the Catholic Church that the Church should allow the ordination of women. Next, he will be telling Jews to move their Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.


11 posted on 06/25/2013 2:41:19 PM PDT by CdMGuy
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To: ArrogantBustard

Ahh, I thought so. So he’s kind sorta ‘Baptist lite’.

He should stop sullying their good name. I hear the episcopalians are hiring. He could be bishop Jimmuh.


12 posted on 06/25/2013 2:42:04 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: CdMGuy

What about Friday! I’m sure he has plenty to say. ;)


13 posted on 06/25/2013 2:43:16 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: CdMGuy

See #9 he is not a Southern Baptist anymore because we, as our Catholic Brothers/Sister, do not ordain women.


14 posted on 06/25/2013 2:50:22 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: NYer
I'd like to point out that the Catholic Church explicitly teaches that the greatest human person ever created is the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Uh, the Scriptures beg to differ. It was the Prophet John.

15 posted on 06/25/2013 2:58:26 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: fwdude

Read carefully. It says that no greater *man* was born of woman than John. The BVM is not a man.


16 posted on 06/25/2013 3:02:07 PM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion
It says that no greater *man* was born of woman than John. The BVM is not a man.

She's not a "god" either.

Seriously, "man" is used in the generic sense for all of humankind in the verse about John being the greatest. Just as the Lord said, "no man can come to the Father except by me" didn't exclude women.

17 posted on 06/25/2013 3:06:56 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
La plus ca change ...

???

Did you intend to write: Plus ca change, plus c'est la mem chose?

18 posted on 06/25/2013 3:07:01 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: NYer

Thank you for the informative post.


19 posted on 06/25/2013 3:07:47 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: CdMGuy
the self-proclaimed Southern Baptist

He renounced the Southern Baptist denomination and left it.

""In October 2000, Carter again made headlines with his widely-publicized decision to leave the Southern Baptist Convention. Carter sent out over 75,000 letters to Southern Baptist churches nationwide explaining his decision.""

In April 2006, Carter, former-President Bill Clinton and Mercer University President Bill Underwood formed the New Baptist Covenant.

20 posted on 06/25/2013 3:08:10 PM PDT by ansel12 (Libertarians, Gays = in all marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration or military service laws.)
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To: JCBreckenridge

This Southern Baptist does not. Jimmy does not like us either. : )


21 posted on 06/25/2013 3:08:58 PM PDT by MamaB
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To: CdMGuy

He is NOT a Southern Baptist. He left us years ago after meddling in our beliefs. Do not know what group he belongs to now.


22 posted on 06/25/2013 3:10:46 PM PDT by MamaB
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To: NYer
"And I think the great religions have set the example for that, by ordaining, in effect, that women are not equal to men in the eyes of God. This has been done and still is done by the Catholic Church ever since the third century, when the Catholic Church ordained that a woman cannot be a priest for instance but a man can. A woman can be a nurse or a teacher but she can’t be a priest."

So what? A man can be a priest but he can't give birth to a child. Men and women are different, but differences do not amount to inequality.

Jesus scandalized His disciples by talking with the Samaritan woman at the well. The Bible clearly shows the love of God for His children, both male and female. There is no inequality in Christianity.

Maybe the peanut farmer should tackle the way women are viewed/treated by Muslims and by their false god. That's next up, no doubt. /s

23 posted on 06/25/2013 3:13:54 PM PDT by CatherineofAragon ((Support Christian white males----the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization).)
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To: NYer

Whenever Jimmuh comments about Catholicism, or even Judaism, it should be regarded as if the comments had come from a “moderate” Muslim Imam. Perhaps even less so.

Carter failed at his original religion. Then, when they refused to change their beliefs as he wanted them to, he left them in a huff.

Bottom line: Jimmuh just does not grasp the whole “religion” thing. Likely he is unable to even grasp the idea of a spiritual God, any more than other primitive people don’t grasp that their gods are not the same as the graven idols of their gods.


24 posted on 06/25/2013 3:17:37 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: CatherineofAragon

I’m sure it’s high on the Agenda. ;)


25 posted on 06/25/2013 3:22:10 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: NYer

I never had a problem with that statement. What the Bible is saying “Call no man Father of Creation” has nothing to do with calling a priest father. As was explained to me and also by the Apostles calling members of their flock “my son” or “my child” .... makes sense to me.


26 posted on 06/25/2013 3:31:15 PM PDT by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: NYer

Jimmy Carter, still harming the country after all these years.


27 posted on 06/25/2013 3:32:38 PM PDT by yarddog (There Are Three Things That Remain--Faith, Hope, and Love--and,the Greatest of These is Love..)
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To: JCBreckenridge

Well, he did mention “great religions”, so..../s


28 posted on 06/25/2013 3:48:19 PM PDT by CatherineofAragon ((Support Christian white males----the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization).)
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To: fwdude
Of course she's not God!

Seriously!!

29 posted on 06/25/2013 4:00:17 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("You can obseve a lot just by watchin'." - Yogi Berra)
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To: NYer

I appreciate the author describing Catholic doctrine, and immediately have to ask “Where is all of that in Scripture?”


30 posted on 06/25/2013 4:17:32 PM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: NYer
Jimmah vs. the cult of the BVM

A plaque on both their houses?

31 posted on 06/25/2013 4:33:28 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("You keep using that verse, but I do not think it means what you think it means." --I. Montoya)
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To: nickcarraway

Carter was a FAILED President.

The President that came after him, Ronald Reagan teamed up with not just only Margaret Thatcher but Blessed John Paul II who made it possible for Eastern Europe to go free after many years under communism.


32 posted on 06/25/2013 4:56:01 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I said A god.

But with all of the images erected of her, you’d think so.


33 posted on 06/25/2013 5:06:25 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Lee N. Field

We’ll take the “plaque”. Jimmy can have the plague.


34 posted on 06/25/2013 5:16:42 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: CdMGuy

If you insist on saying Jimmy Carter is a fine upstanding Southern Baptist.
We must be fair and belive Nancy Pelosi is a fine upstanding Catholic.

I am willing to say they are both heretics.

A professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.


35 posted on 06/25/2013 5:38:29 PM PDT by ThomasThomas (If you keep your crayons in the box you can't color.)
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To: fwdude

The obtuse are easily confused.


36 posted on 06/25/2013 5:38:44 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Electorate data confirms Resolute Conservative voted for Soetoro)
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To: CatherineofAragon

I guess that rules out Islam then.


37 posted on 06/25/2013 5:39:29 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: avenir

Where can one find the following words in Scripture: Bible, Incarnation, Trinity?


38 posted on 06/25/2013 5:40:14 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Electorate data confirms Resolute Conservative voted for Soetoro)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
The obtuse are easily confused.

You love saying that word, don't you?

39 posted on 06/25/2013 5:42:11 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: ThomasThomas

Technically Nancy Pelosi is a member in good standing of the Catholic Church tho I think that may change in the near future.

Jimmy Carter is no longer a member of the Southern Baptists period.


40 posted on 06/25/2013 5:46:44 PM PDT by yarddog (There Are Three Things That Remain--Faith, Hope, and Love--and,the Greatest of These is Love..)
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To: fwdude
I wouldn't think so. Do you think the statuary in Washington DC makes one think Washington and Lincoln are gods? Are we forbidden ritualized actions, like the ceremonies involving the American flag? Raising it, lowering it, placing in on a fallen soldier's coffin? Putting a wreath on he Tomb of the Unknown SOldier? (And where in the Bibnle does it say we can do that?) Are we idolators if we render any degree of recognition to persons lower than the Almighty, persons which we do --- to a lower degree --- honor?

I don't have a hard time at all distinguishing between honor for my husband ---for instance --- or honor for Abraham, Moses, Mary --- and the far greater, infinitely greater act which is adoration of God.

41 posted on 06/25/2013 6:29:21 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: MamaB
"He is NOT a Southern Baptist. He left us years ago after meddling in our beliefs. Do not know what group he belongs to now."



He went back to the Goober Peas
  -   (Rumor has it that he has returned to his nutty roots, where they erected this statue in his honor. Click on picture for some musical accompaniment.)

42 posted on 06/25/2013 7:04:26 PM PDT by Heart-Rest (Good reading ==> | ncregister.com | catholic.com | ewtn.com | newadvent.org |)
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To: avenir
"I appreciate the author describing Catholic doctrine, and immediately have to ask 'Where is all of that in Scripture?'"

Well, if you truly want to know the Biblical basis for the things Dr. Taylor Marshall is talking about in this article, you're going to need more than a short, simple article like this to do justice to your question, so I would suggest as a starting point you read these books (as well as any books by Dr. Scott Hahn you can get your hands on).

Where is That in the Bible?   --    By Patrick Madrid


The Biblical Basis for the Catholic Faith    --   By John Salza


A Biblical Defense of Catholicism    --    By Dave Armstrong


43 posted on 06/25/2013 7:12:17 PM PDT by Heart-Rest (Good reading ==> | ncregister.com | catholic.com | ewtn.com | newadvent.org |)
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To: Heart-Rest

I am 69 and have never had boiled peanuts. We even grew them when I was young. A friend of mine was going through Plains,GA and stopped at a small store. Jimmy was in there and my friend said he was a nice fellow. Who knows? You are funny!


44 posted on 06/25/2013 7:15:02 PM PDT by MamaB
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To: NYer

I just didn’t complete the phrase, that’s all. In spoken conversation, I rarely do.


45 posted on 06/25/2013 8:24:31 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

One can find no less than The Lord Jesus consistently referring to Scripture as authoritative. One can also find Satan, twisting it (to his and his hearers’ destruction).

The Spirit-breathed Word is how you know what communion is and is not; who Mary is and is not; who saints and priests are and are not; what the church is and is not.


46 posted on 06/26/2013 1:01:44 AM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: Heart-Rest

Thank you for the references, but Scripture is sufficient for instruction. The apostle Paul said so. So did Peter (”as newborn babes crave the sincere milk of the word, that by it you may grow in respect to salvation”).


47 posted on 06/26/2013 1:18:30 AM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: avenir
"Thank you for the references, but Scripture is sufficient for instruction. The apostle Paul said so. So did Peter (”as newborn babes crave the sincere milk of the word, that by it you may grow in respect to salvation”)."

So with your logic, I should not be listening at all to your own words here about these matters, since your own words in your first post in this thread, and your own words in the first half of your post here are not contained in "Scripture", but are your own words.

Likewise (according to your logic), I should never listen to any preachers "expounding on the Word", since their own words are also not contained in Scripture.

Do you see how illogical that kind of reasoning is? If you really, truly think it is wrong to add any words to Scripture, then why did you add your own words to the Scripture, right here in these two posts you made using your own words?

48 posted on 06/26/2013 6:26:46 AM PDT by Heart-Rest (Good reading ==> | ncregister.com | catholic.com | ewtn.com | newadvent.org |)
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To: Heart-Rest

You got all that from the few words I posted? Note that the words were true: Jesus, Paul, Peter, et. al testified to the authority of Scripture. Reading, mulling over, savoring the Spirit-breathed Word is how one can “test the spirits, to see if they are from God” (I John). That’s something YOU, believer, are supposed to do. This discipline cannot be subcontracted.

I admit that my first post was a jab. There are many Catholic doctrines that are simply made up (and repeated ad infinitum on this forum). There is ZERO evidence for them in Scripture.

But Protestants that live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones! LOL. I’ve seen the same in various churches I’ve been in. And in my own life!

“But we worldly men have miserable, mad, mistaking eyes!”—Shakespeare


49 posted on 06/26/2013 10:47:30 AM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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