Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Christ The End of the Law (Daily Sermon)
PB Ministries ^ | 11/19/1876 | C. H. SPURGEON

Posted on 06/29/2013 2:31:49 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans

The End of the Law

A Sermon (No. 1325)

Delivered on Lord's-Day Morning, November 19th, 1876, by C. H. SPURGEON, At the Metropolitan Tabernacle, Newington

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." Romans 10:4

YOU REMEMBER we spoke last Sabbath morning of "the days of the Son of man." Oh that every Sabbath now might be a day of that kind in the most spiritual sense. I hope that we shall endeavour to make each Lord's Day as it comes round a day of the Lord, by thinking much of Jesus by rejoicing much in him, by labouring for him, and by our growingly importunate prayer, that to him may the gathering of the people be. We may not have very many Sabbaths together, death may soon part us; but while we are able to meet as a Christian assembly, let us never forget that Christ's presence is our main necessity, and let us pray for it and entreat the Lord to vouchsafe that presence always in displays of light, life and love! I become increasingly earnest that every preaching time should be a soul-saving time. I can deeply sympathize with Paul when he said, "My heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they might be saved." We have had so much preaching, but, comparatively speaking, so little believing in Jesus; and if there be no believing in him, neither the law nor the gospel has answered its end, and our labour has been utterly in vain. Some of you have heard, and heard, and heard again, but you have not believed in Jesus. If the gospel had not come to your hearing you could not have been guilty of refusing it. "Have they not heard?" says the apostle. "Yes, verily:" but still "they have not all obeyed the gospel." Up to this very moment there has been no hearing with the inner ear, and no work of faith in the heart, in the case of many whom we love. Dear friends, is it always to be so? How long is it to be so? Shall there not soon come an end of this reception of the outward means and rejection of the inward grace? Will not your soul soon close in with Christ for present salvation? Break! Break, O heavenly day, upon the benighted ones, for our hearts are breaking over them.

The reason why many do not come to Christ is not because they are not earnest, after a fashion, and thoughtful and desirous to be saved, but because they cannot brook God's way of salvation. "They have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge," We do get them by our exhortation so far on the way that they become desirous to obtain eternal life, but "they have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God." Mark, "submitted themselves," for it needs submission. Proud man wants to save himself, he believes he can do it, and he will not give over the task till he finds out his own helplessness by unhappy failures. Salvation by grace, to be sued for in forma pauperis, to be asked for as an undeserved boon from free, unmerited grace, this it is which the carnal mind will not come to as long as it can help it: I beseech the Lord so to work that some of you may not be able to help it. And oh, I have been praying that, while this morning I am trying to set forth Christ as the end of the law, God may bless it to some hearts, that they may see what Christ did, and may perceive it to be a great deal better than anything they can do; may see what Christ finished, and may become weary of what they themselves have laboured at so long, and have not even well commenced at this day. Perhaps it may please the Lord to enchant them with the perfection of the salvation that is in Christ Jesus. As Bunyan would say, "It may, perhaps, set their mouths a watering after it," and when a sacred appetite begins it will not be long before the feast is enjoyed. It may be that when they see the raiment of wrought gold, which Jesus so freely bestows on naked souls, they will throw away their own filthy rags which now they hug so closely.

I am going to speak about two things, this morning, as the Spirit of God shall help me: and the first is, Christ in connection with the law—he is "the end of the law for righteousness"; and secondly, ourselves in connection with Christ—"to everyone that believeth Christ is the end of the law for righteousness."

I. First, then, CHRIST IN CONNECTION WITH THE LAW. The law is that which, as sinners, we have above all things cause to dread; for the sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. Towards us the law darts forth devouring flames, for it condemns us, and in solemn terms appoints us a place among the accursed, as it is written, "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law to do them." Yet, strange infatuation! like the fascination which attracts the gnat to the candle which burns its wings, men by nature fly to the law for salvation, and cannot be driven from it. The law can do nothing else but reveal sin and pronounce condemnation upon the sinner, and yet we cannot get men away from it, even though we show them how sweetly Jesus stands between them and it. They are so enamoured of legal hope that they cling to it when there is nothing to cling to; they prefer Sinai to Calvary, though Sinai has nothing for them but thunders and trumpet warnings of coming judgment. O that for awhile you would listen anxiously while I set forth Jesus my Lord, that you may see the law in him.

Now, what has our Lord to do with the law? He has everything to do with it, for he is its end for the noblest object, namely, for righteousness. He is the "end of the law." What does this mean? I think it signifies three things: first, that Christ is the purpose and object of the law; secondly, that he is the fulfillment of it; and thirdly, that he is the termination of it.

First, then, our Lord Jesus Christ is the purpose and object of the law. It was given to lead us too him. The law is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, or rather our attendant to conduct us to the school of Jesus. The law is the great net in which the fish are enclosed that they may be drawn out of the element of sin. The law is the stormy wind which drives souls into the harbour or refuge. The law is the sheriff's officer to shut men up in prison for their sin, concluding them all under condemnation in order that they may look to the free grace of God alone for deliverance. This is the object of the law: it empties that grace may fill, and wounds that mercy may heal. It has never been God's intention towards us, as fallen men, that the law should be regarded as a way to salvation to us, for a way of salvation it can never be. Had man never fallen, had his nature remained as God made it, the law would have been most helpful to him to show him the way in which he should walk: and by keeping it he would have lived, for "he that doeth these things shall live in them." But ever since man has fallen the Lord has not proposed to him a way of salvation by works, for he knows it to be impossible to a sinful creature. The law is already broken; and whatever man can do he cannot repair the damage he has already done: therefore he is out of court as to the hope of merit. The law demands perfection, but man has already fallen short of it; and therefore let him do his best. He cannot accomplish what is absolutely essential. The law is meant to lead the sinner to faith in Christ, by showing the impossibility of any other way. It is the black dog to fetch the sheep to the shepherd, the burning heat which drives the traveller to the shadow of the great rock in a weary land.

Look how the law is adapted to this; for, first of all, it shows man his sin. Read the ten commandments and tremble as you read them. Who can lay his own character down side by side with the two tablets of divine precept without at once being convinced that he has fallen far short of the standard? When the law comes home to the soul it is like light in a dark room revealing the dust and the dirt which else had been unperceived. It is the test which detects the presence of the poison of sin in the soul. "I was alive without the law once," said the apostle, "but when the commandment came sin revived and I died." Our comeliness utterly fades away when the law blows upon it. Look at the commandments, I say, and remember how sweeping they are, how spiritual, how far-reaching. They do not merely touch the outward act, but dive into the inner motive and deal with the heart, the mind, the soul. There is a deeper meaning in the commands than appears upon their surface. Gaze into their depths and see how terrible is the holiness which they require. As you understand what the law demands you will perceive how far you are from fulfilling it, and how sin abounds where you thought there was little or none of it. You thought yourself rich and increased in goods and in no need of anything, but when the broken law visits you, your spiritual bankruptcy and utter penury stare you in the face. A true balance discovers short weight, and such is the first effect of the law upon the conscience of man.

The law also shows the result and mischief of sin. Look at the types of the old Mosaic dispensation, and see how they were intended to lead men to Christ by making them see their unclean condition and their need of such cleansing as only he can give. Every type pointed to our Lord Jesus Christ. If men were put apart because of disease or uncleanness, they were made to see how sin separated them from God and from his people; and when they were brought back and purified with mystic rites in which were scarlet wool and hyssop and the like, they were made to see how they can only be restored by Jesus Christ, the great High Priest. When the bird was killed that the leper might be clean, the need of purification by the sacrifice of a life was set forth. Every morning and evening a lamb died to tell of daily need of pardon, if God is to dwell with us. We sometimes have fault found with us for speaking too much about blood; yet under the old testament the blood seemed to be everything, and was not only spoken of but actually presented to the eye. What does the apostle tell us in the Hebrews? "Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people saying, this is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is not remission." The blood was on the veil, and on the altar, on the hangings, and on the floor of the tabernacle: no one could avoid seeing it. I resolve to make my ministry of the same character, and more and more sprinkle it with the blood of atonement. Now that abundance of the blood of old was meant to show clearly that sin has so polluted us that without an atonement God is not to be approached: we must come by the way of sacrifice or not at all. We are so unacceptable in ourselves that unless the Lord sees us with the blood of Jesus upon us he must away with us. The old law, with its emblems and figures, set forth many truths as to men's selves and the coming Saviour, intending by every one of them to preach Christ. If any stopped short of him, they missed the intent and design of the law. Moses leads up to Joshua, and the law ends at Jesus.

Turning our thoughts back again to the moral rather than the ceremonial law, it was intended to teach men their utter helplessness. It shows them how short they fall of what they ought to be, and it also shows them, when they look at it carefully, how utterly impossible it is for them to come up to the standard. Such holiness as the law demands no man can reach of himself. "Thy commandment is exceeding broad." If a man says that he can keep the law, it is because he does not know what the law is. If he fancies that he can ever climb to heaven up the quivering sides of Sinai, surely he can never have seen that burning mount at all. Keep the law! Ah, my brethren, while we are yet talking about it we are breaking it; while we are pretending that we can fulfil its letter, we are violating its spirit, for pride as much breaks the law as lust or murder. "Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one." "How can he be clean that is born of a woman?" No, soul, thou canst not help thyself in this thing, for since only by perfection thou canst live by the law, and since that perfection is impossible, thou canst not find help in the covenant of works. In grace there is hope, but as a matter of debt there is none, for we do not merit anything but wrath. The law tells us this, and the sooner we know it to be so the better, for the sooner we shall fly to Christ.

The law also shows us our great need—our need of cleansing, cleansing with the water and with the blood. It discovers to us our filthiness, and this naturally leads us to feel that we must be washed from it if we are ever to draw near to God. So the law drives us to accept of Christ as the one only person who can cleanse us, and make us fit to stand within the veil in the presence of the Most High. The law is the surgeon's knife which cuts out the proud flesh that the wound may heal. The law by itself only sweeps and raises the dust, but the gospel sprinkles clean water upon the dust, and all is well in the chamber of the soul. The law kills, the gospel makes alive; the law strips, and then Jesus Christ comes in and robes the soul in beauty and glory. All the commandments, and all the types direct us to Christ, if we will but heed their evident intent. They wean us from self, they put us off from the false basis of self- righteousness, and bring us to know that only in Christ can our help be found. So, first of all, Christ is the end of the law, in that he is its great purpose.

And now, secondly, he is the law's fulfillment. It is impossible for any of us to be saved without righteousness. The God of heaven and earth by immutable necessity demands righteousness of all his creatures. Now, Christ has come to give to us the righteousness which the law demands, but which it never bestows. In the chapter before us we read of "the righteousness which is of faith," which is also called "God's righteousness"; and we read of those who "shall not be ashamed" because they are righteous by believing unto righteousness." What the law could not do Jesus has done. He provides the righteousness which the law asks for but cannot produce. What an amazing righteousness it must be which is as broad and deep and long and high as the law itself. The commandment is exceeding broad, but the righteousness of Christ is as broad as the commandment, and goes to the end of it. Christ did not come to make the law milder, or to render it possible for our cracked and battered obedience to be accepted as a sort of compromise. The law is not compelled to lower its terms, as though it had originally asked too much; it is holy and just and good, and ought not to be altered in one jot or tittle, nor can it be. Our Lord gives the law all it requires, not a part, for that would be an admission that it might justly have been content with less at first. The law claims complete obedience without one spot or speck, failure, or flaw, and Christ has brought in such a righteousness as that, and gives it to his people. The law demands that the righteousness should be without omission of duty and without commission of sin, and the righteousness which Christ has brought is just such an one that for its sake the great God accepts his people and counts them to be without spot or wrinkle or any such thing. The law will not be content without spiritual obedience, mere outward compliances will not satisfy. But our Lord's obedience was as deep as it was broad, for his zeal to do the will of him that sent him consumed him. He says himself, "I delight to do thy will, O my God, yea thy law is within my heart." Such righteousness he puts upon all believers. "By the obedience of one shall many be made righteous"; righteous to the full, perfect in Christ. We rejoice to wear the costly robe of fair white linen which Jesus has prepared, and we feel that we may stand arrayed in it before the majesty of heaven without a trembling thought. This is something to dwell upon, dear friends. Only as righteous ones can we be saved, but Jesus Christ makes us righteous, and therefore we are saved. He is righteous who believeth on him, even as Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness. "There is therefore, now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus," because they are made righteous in Christ. Yea, the Holy Spirit by the mouth of Paul challengeth all men, angels, and devils, to lay anything to the charge of God's elect, since Christ hath died. O law, when thou demandest of me a perfect righteousness, I, being a believer, present it to thee; for through Christ Jesus faith is accounted unto me for righteousness. The righteousness of Christ is mine, for I am one with him by faith, and this is the name wherewith he shall be called—"The Lord our righteousness."

Jesus has thus fulfilled the original demands of the law, but you know, brethren, that since we have broken the law there are other demands. For the remission of past sins something more is asked now than present and future obedience. Upon us, on account of our sins, the curse has been pronounced, and a penalty has been incurred. It is written that he "will by no means clear the guilty," but every transgression and iniquity shall have its just punishment and reward. Here, then, let us admire that the Lord Jesus Christ is the end of the law as to penalty. That curse and penalty are awful things to think upon, but Christ has ended all their evil, and thus discharged us from all the consequences of sin. As far as every believer is concerned the law demands no penalty and utters no curse. The believer can point to the Great Surety on the tree of Calvary, and say, "See there,oh law, there is the vindication of divine justice which I offer to thee. Jesus pouring out his heart's blood from his wounds and dying on my behalf is my answer to thy claims, and I know that I shall be delivered from wrath through him." The claims of the law both as broken and unbroken Christ has met: both the positive and the penal demands are satisfied in him. This was a labour worthy of a God, and lo, the incarnate God has achieved it. He has finished the transgression, made an end of sins, made reconciliation for iniquity, and brought in everlasting righteousness. All glory be to his name.

Moreover, not only has the penalty been paid, but Christ has put great and special honour upon the law in so doing. I venture to say that if the whole human race had kept the law of God and not one of them had violated it, the law would not stand in so splendid a position of honour as it does today when the man Christ Jesus, who is also the Son of God, has paid obeisance to it. God himself, incarnate, has in his life, and yet more in his death, revealed the supremacy of law; he has shown that not even love nor sovereignty can set aside justice. Who shall say a word against the law to which the Lawgiver himself submits? Who shall now say that it is too severe when he who made it submits himself to its penalties. Because he was found in fashion as a man, and was our representative, the Lord demanded from his own Son perfect obedience to the law, and the Son voluntarily bowed himself to it without a single word, taking no exception to his task. "Yea, thy law is my delight," saith he, and he proved it to be so by paying homage to it even to the full. Oh wondrous law under which even Emmanuel serves! Oh matchless law whose yoke even the Son of God does not disdain to bear, but being resolved to save his chosen was made under the law, lived under it and died under it, "obedient to death, even the death of the cross."

The law's stability also has been secured by Christ. That alone can remain which is proved to be just, and Jesus has proved the law to be so, magnifying it and making it honourable. He says, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." I shall have to show you how he has made an end of the law in another sense, but as to the settlement of the eternal principles of right and wrong, Christ's life and death have achieved this forever. "Yea, we established the law." said Paul, "we do not make void the law through faith." The law is proved to be holy and just by the very gospel of faith, for the gospel which faith believes in does not alter or lower the law, but teaches us how it was to the uttermost fulfilled. Now shall the law stand fast forever and ever, since even to save elect man God will not alter it. He had a people, chosen, beloved, and ordained to life, yet he would not save them at the expense of one principle of right. They were sinful, and how could they be justified unless the law was suspended or changed? Was, then, the law changed? It seemed as if it must be so, if man was to be saved, but Jesus Christ came and showed us how the law could stand firm as a rock, and yet the redeemed could be justly saved by infinite mercy. In Christ we see both mercy and justice shining full orbed, and yet neither of them in any degree eclipsing the other. The law has all it ever asked, as it ought to have, and yet the Father of all mercies sees all his chosen saved as he determined they should be through the death of his Son. Thus I have tried to show you how Christ is the fulfillment of the law to its utmost end. May the Holy Ghost bless the teaching.

And now, thirdly, he is the end of the law in the sense that he is the termination of it. He has terminated it in two senses. First of all, his people are not under it as a covenant of life. "We are not under the law, but under grace." The old covenant as it stood with father Adam was "This do and thou shalt live": its command he did not keep, and consequently he did not live, nor do we live in him, since in Adam all died. The old covenant was broken, and we became condemned thereby, but now, having suffered death in Christ, we are no more under it, but are dead to it. Brethren, at this present moment, although we rejoice to do good works, we are not seeking life through them, we are not hoping to obtain divine favour by our own goodness, nor even to keep ourselves in the love of God by any merit of our own. Chosen, not for our works, but according to the eternal will and good pleasure of God; called, not of works, but by the Spirit of God, we desire to continue in this grace and return no more to the bondage of the old covenant. Since we have put our trust in an atonement provided and applied by grace through Christ Jesus, we are no longer slaves but children, not working to be saved, but saved already, and working because we are saved. Neither that which we do, nor even that which the Spirit of God worketh in us is to us the ground and basis of the love of God toward us, since he loved us from the first, because he would love us, unworthy though we were; and he loves us still in Christ, and looks upon us not as we are in ourselves, but as we are in him; washed in his blood and covered in his righteousness. Ye are not under the law, Christ has taken you from the servile bondage of a condemning covenant and made you to receive the adoption of children, so that now ye cry, Abba, Father.

Again, Christ is the terminator of the law, for we are no longer under its curse. The law cannot curse a believer, it does not know how to do it; it blesses him, yea, and he shall be blessed; for as the law demands righteousness and looks at the believer in Christ, and sees that Jesus has given him all the righteousness it demands, the law is bound to pronounce him blessed. "Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile." Oh, the joy of being redeemed from the curse of the law by Christ, who was "made a curse for us," as it is written, "Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree." Do ye, my brethren, understand the sweet mystery of salvation? Have you ever seen Jesus standing in your place that you may stand in his place? Christ accused and Christ condemned, and Christ led out to die, and Christ smitten of the Father, even to the death, and then you cleared, justified, delivered from the curse, because the curse has spent itself on your Redeemer. You are admitted to enjoy the blessing because the righteousness which was his is now transferred to you that you may be blessed of the Lord world without end. Do let us triumph and rejoice in this evermore. Why should we not? And yet some of God's people get under the law as to their feelings, and begin to fear that because they are conscious of sin they are not saved, whereas it is written, "he justifieth the ungodly." For myself, I love to live near a sinner's Saviour. If my standing before the Lord depended upon what I am in myself and what good works and righteousness I could bring, surely I should have to condemn myself a thousand times a day. But to get away from that and to say, "I have believed in Jesus Christ and therefore righteousness is mine," this is peace, rest, joy, and the beginning of heaven! When one attains to this experience, his love to Jesus Christ begins to flame up, and he feels that if the Redeemer has delivered him from the curse of the law he will not continue in sin, but he will endeavour to live in newness of life. We are not our own, we are bought with a price, and we would therefore glorify God in our bodies and in our spirits, which are the Lord's. Thus much upon Christ in connection with the law.

II. Now, secondly, OURSELVES IN CONNECTION WITH CHRIST—for "Christ is the end of the law to everyone that believeth." Now see the point "to everyone that believeth," there the stress lies. Come, man, woman, dost thou believe? No weightier question can be asked under heaven. "Dost thou believe on the Son of God?" And what is it to believe? It is not merely to accept a set of doctrines and to say that such and such a creed is yours, and there and then to put it on the shelf and forget it. To believe is, to trust, to confide, to depend upon, to rely upon, to rest in. Dost thou believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead? Dost thou believe that he stood in the sinner's stead and suffered the just for the unjust? Dost thou believe that he is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by him? And dost thou therefore lay the whole weight and stress of thy soul's salvation upon him, yea, upon him alone? Ah then, Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to thee, and thou art righteous. In the righteousness of God thou art clothed if thou believest. It is of no use to bring forward anything else if you are not believing, for nothing will avail. If faith be absent the essential thing is wanting: sacraments, prayers, Bible reading, hearings of the gospel, you may heap them together, high as the stars, into a mountain, huge as high Olympus, but they are all mere chaff if faith be not there. It is thy believing or not believing which must settle the matter. Dost thou look away from thyself to Jesus for righteousness? If thou dost he is the end of the law to thee.

Now observe that there is no question raised about the previous character, for it is written, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." But, Lord, this man before he believed was a persecutor and injurious, he raged and raved against the saints and haled them to prison and sought their blood. Yes, beloved friend, and that is the very man who wrote these words by the Holy Ghost, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." So if I address one here this morning whose life has been defiled with every sin, and stained with every transgression we can conceive of, yet I say unto such, remember "all manner of sin and of blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men." If thou believest in the Lord Jesus Christ thine iniquities are blotted out, for the blood of Jesus Christ, God's dear Son, cleanseth us from all sin. This is the glory of the gospel that it is a sinner's gospel; good news of blessing not for those without sin, but for those who confess and forsake it. Jesus came into the world, not to reward the sinless, but to seek and to save that which was lost; and he, being lost and being far from God, who cometh nigh to God by Christ, and believeth in him, will find that he is able to bestow righteousness upon the guilty. He is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, and therefore to the poor harlot that believeth, to the drunkard of many years standing that believeth, to the thief, the liar, and the scoffer who believeth, to those who have aforetime rioted in sin, but now turn from it to trust in him. But I do not know that I need mention such cases as these; to me the most wonderful fact is that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to me, for I believe in him. I know whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed to him until that day.

Another thought arises from the text, and that is, that there is nothing said by way of qualification as to the strength of the faith. He is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, whether he is Little Faith or Greatheart. Jesus protects the rear rank as well as the vanguard. There is no difference between one believer and another as to justification. So long as there is a connection between you and Christ the righteousness of God is yours. The link may be very like a film, a spider's line of trembling faith, but, if it runs all the way from the heart to Christ, divine grace can and will flow along the most slender thread. It is marvelous how fine the wire may be that will carry the electric flash. We may want a cable to carry a message across the sea, but that is for the protection of the wire, the wire which actually carries the message is a slender thing. If thy faith be of the mustard-seed kind, if it be only such as tremblingly touches the Saviour's garment's hem, if thou canst only say "Lord, I believe, help thou mine unbelief," if it be but the faith of sinking Peter, or weeping Mary, yet if it be faith in Christ, he will be the end of the law for righteousness to thee as well as to the chief of the apostles.

If this be so then, beloved friends, all of us who believe are righteous. Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ we have obtained the righteousness which those who follow the works of the law know nothing of. We are not completely sanctified, would God we were; we are not quit of sin in our members, though we hate it; but still for all that, in the sight of God, we are truly righteous and being qualified by faith we have peace with God. Come, look up, ye believers that are burdened with a sense of sin. While you chasten yourselves and mourn your sin, do not doubt your Saviour, nor question his righteousness. You are black, but do not stop there, go on to say as the spouse did, "I am black, but comely."

"Though in ourselves deform'd we are, And black as Kedar's tents appear, Yet, when we put Thy beauties on, Fair as the courts of Solomon."

Now, mark that the connection of our text assures us that being righteous we are saved; for what does it say here, "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." He who is justified is saved, or what were the benefit of justification? Over thee, O believer, God hath pronounced the verdict "saved," and none shall reverse it. You are saved from sin and death and hell; you are saved even now, with a present salvation; "He hath saved us and called us with a holy calling." Feel the transports of it at this hour. "Beloved, now are we the sons of God."

And now I have done when I have said just this. If any one here thinks he can save himself, and that his own righteousness will suffice before God, I would affectionately beg him not to insult his Saviour. If your righteousness sufficeth, why did Christ come here to work one out? Will you for a moment compare your righteousness with the righteousness of Jesus Christ? What likeness is there between you and him? As much as between an emmet and an archangel. Nay, not so much as that: as much as between night and day, hell and heaven. Oh, if I had a righteousness of my own that no one could find fault with, I would voluntarily fling it away to have the righteousness of Christ, but as I have none of my own I do rejoice the more to have my Lord's. When Mr. Whitefield first preached at Kingswood, near Bristol, to the colliers, he could see when their hearts began to be touched by the gutters of white made by the tears as they ran down their black cheeks. He saw they were receiving the gospel, and he writes in his diary "as these poor colliers had no righteousness of their own they therefore gloried in Him who came to save publicans and sinners." Well, Mr. Whitefield, that is true of the colliers, but it is equally true of many of us here, who may not have had black faces, but we had black hearts. We can truly say that we also rejoice to cast away our own righteousness and count it dross and dung that we may win Christ, and be found in him. In him is our sole hope and only trust.

Last of all, for any of you to reject the righteousness of Christ must be to perish everlastingly, because it cannot be that God will accept you or your pretended righteousness when you have refused the real and divine righteousness which he sets before you in his Son. If you could go up to the gates of heaven, and the angel were to say to you, "What title have you to entrance here?" and you were to reply, "I have a righteousness of my own," then for you to be admitted would be to decide that your righteousness was on a par with that of Immanuel himself. Can that ever be? Do you think that God will ever allow such a lie to be sanctioned? Will he let a poor wretched sinner's counterfeit righteousness pass current side by side with the fine gold of Christ's perfection? Why was the fountain filled with blood if you need no washing? Is Christ a superfluity? Oh, it cannot be. You must have Christ's righteousness or be unrighteous, and being unrighteous you will be unsaved, and being unsaved you must remain lost forever and ever.

What! has it all come to this, then, that I am to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for righteousness, and to be made just through faith? Yes, that is it: that is the whole of it. What! trust Christ alone and then live as I like! You cannot live in sin after you have trusted Jesus, for the act of faith brings with it a change of nature and a renewal of your soul. The Spirit of God who leads you to believe will also change your heart. You spoke of "living as you like," you will like to live very differently from what you do now. The things you loved before your conversion you will hate when you believe, and the things you hated you will love. Now, you are trying to be good, and you make great failures, because your heart is alienated from God; but when once you have received salvation through the blood of Christ, your heart will love God, and then you will keep his commandments, and they will be no longer grievous to you. A change of heart is what you want, and you will never get it except through the covenant of grace. There is not a word about conversion in the old covenant, we must look to the new covenant for that, and here it is—"Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and an new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." This is one of the greatest covenant promises, and the Holy Ghost preforms it in the chosen. Oh that the Lord would sweetly persuade you to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and that promise and all the other covenant engagements shall be fulfilled to your soul. The Lord bless you! Spirit of God, send thy blessing on these poor words of mine for Jesus' sake. Amen.


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Theology
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-67 next last

1 posted on 06/29/2013 2:31:49 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: .45 Long Colt; HarleyD; mitch5501

PING


2 posted on 06/29/2013 2:32:47 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
The reason why many do not come to Christ is not because they are not earnest, after a fashion, and thoughtful and desirous to be saved, but because they cannot brook God's way of salvation.

If Calvinist (double) predestination is true how can they choose to brook any differently?

3 posted on 06/29/2013 4:00:55 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

Absent the regenerating work of The Lord on the dead depraved hearts of the elect, no one would brook God’s way of salvation. Men don’t understand grace and they don’t like grace.

Men dead in trespasses and sin instinctively believe they can fix themselves. If they could only understood the absolute holiness of God they would begin to see the utter futility of their works-based system, the folly of their self-salvation project. If they understood that the best they can possibly do, according to the prophet Isaiah, is nothing but “filthy rags” they might begin to understand their soul’s peril. Christ came to seek and save the lost. Most men don’t really believe they are lost. They don’t consider themselves sinners. They might admit they make mistakes, but they don’t see themselves as all that bad. They aren’t afflicted over their sin, they don’t perceive their deep need. In other words, they aren’t “poor in spirit.”

And God need not predestinate any sinner to hell. Death is the just wage of sin.


4 posted on 06/29/2013 5:01:53 AM PDT by .45 Long Colt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: .45 Long Colt

I edited what I was saying and failed to proofread. I should have deleted the word “could.” That one sentence should start...”If they only understood...” Pardon any typos, tense confusion or other errors. I struggle with this iPad.


5 posted on 06/29/2013 8:01:18 AM PDT by .45 Long Colt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: .45 Long Colt

If I’m understanding you, the answer to my question is he cannot.

If that’s true what is the purpose of the sermon?


6 posted on 06/29/2013 1:03:09 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“If that’s true what is the purpose of the sermon?”


Probably because the same God who ordained some to eternal life, and some to reprobation, also ordained that the elect would be gathered through the preaching of the Word.


7 posted on 06/29/2013 2:15:06 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Why so many different sermons? Does the message matter in this purpose?


8 posted on 06/29/2013 2:53:06 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“Why so many different sermons? Does the message matter in this purpose?”


Just because those who are “ordained to eternal life, believe” (Acts 13:48) doesn’t mean that they all come to saving faith in the same exact way. The illustrious Matthew Henry, in his commentary on John, tells the story of a young man who was wonderfully changed upon merely reading the words “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,” despite a lifetime of sin. Paul was converted on the road to Damascus. Those Gentiles in Acts 13:48 heard the Gospel through the particular preaching of the Apostles. How exactly we are brought, and how we are brought, and under what circumstances, are all in the hands of the God who “worketh all things after the counsel of His own will (Eph 1:11).


9 posted on 06/29/2013 3:10:20 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Wouldn’t the elect be the elect no matter what the sermon?


10 posted on 06/29/2013 3:12:56 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“Wouldn’t the elect be the elect no matter what the sermon?”


Certainly!


11 posted on 06/29/2013 3:16:38 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

The sermon doesn’t matter then.


12 posted on 06/29/2013 3:20:45 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“The sermon doesn’t matter then.”


Certainly not, except in how God uses it.


13 posted on 06/29/2013 3:21:46 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

If you don’t post it, wouldn’t God use something else if needed?

The elect are still elect even if you don’t post it, yes?


14 posted on 06/29/2013 3:24:16 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“The elect are still elect even if you don’t post it, yes?”


Certainly, but I must correct you in the usage of this word. Election is merely God’s plan from eternity to save a person (which occurs in time), so in that sense they are always elect. This plan also isn’t simply limited to salvation, but also to “show the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory” (Rom 9:23).
The plan of God is to show His love for us, His hatred of sin, and to declare His glory throughout all the Earth. I think what you’re trying to say is that election implies that Gospel preaching isn’t necessary, but Election merely implies God’s immutable and irresistible plan from eternity to reveal His Son to a person, and accomplish all His other goals, in time.


15 posted on 06/29/2013 3:39:04 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

I’m interested in how one holds the concept of making choices with the concept that all choices are predetermined at the same time. It seems to be a life of cognitive dissonance as well as lacking in meaning.


16 posted on 06/29/2013 3:57:56 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“I’m interested in how one holds the concept of making choices with the concept that all choices are predetermined at the same time. It seems to be a life of cognitive dissonance as well as lacking in meaning.”


This assumes that your idea of “free-will” actually exists. None of the Reformers ever denied that mankind has a “will,” and the scripture does not say we have no will either. But, it certainly isn’t a “free” will, as it is either described as being under bondage to sin, taken in “the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will” (2 Tim 2:26) or held captive in the will of God who “works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure” (Php 2:13). So to even utter the phrase “free will” is ridiculous. It is a mere figment of the imagination, an illusion projected by a corrupt nature that does not know itself. So you say that your life can have no meaning unless you have a free-will that simply doesn’t exist. In that case, you should, perhaps, find a new meaning for your life instead of fables!

The Reformists who fought against the Papal empire did not teach that we are brought to God by compulsion, kicking and screaming, or that we reject God by compulsion, but rather by mere necessity. And by this we mean, as Luther explains it, “for Will, whether divine or human, does what it does, be it good or evil, not by any compulsion but by mere willingness or desire, as it were” (Luther, On the Bondage of the Will, Sec. 10). It is God who has “given us an heart to know Him,” and with this heart we desire to “return unto God with our whole heart” (Jer 24:7). So we are not, by compulsion, made to act, but we act willingly, though this will is given to us by a new nature, which wars with our old one. And while the providence of God is absolute, so that our every step is ordained, yet we make these steps willingly, which in the case of sin is by permission for to teach us, and limited in its results by the will of God, or in the case of good works, worked within us, so that we by necessity should do them.


17 posted on 06/29/2013 4:39:10 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Thought experiment:

Assume, for the purpose of argument, it is possible to demonstrate that you have free will. If it were demonstrated to you that you had free will, would you accept it?


18 posted on 06/29/2013 4:52:28 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“If it were demonstrated to you that you had free will, would you accept it?”


If you wish to do this, to keep it from being merely arguing by assertion, you must first define “what it is, what its parts are, what is contrary to it, connected with it, and like unto it,” as Luther asked of Erasmus. So that we, at least, know what it is you are actually arguing for, and whether what you argue for can exist even in your own universe. I’ll warn you now, not even Erasmus could give a definition that made any sense.

But as to “would you accept it?” That’s like saying, “would you accept that the moon is made of cheese if it could be proved so?” Well, I won’t say I won’t engage with you, but I can’t say I’ll ever be able to believe something I know is wrong.


19 posted on 06/29/2013 5:01:19 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Whether or not it is demonstrable is not the point. It is whether you would accept it or not if it were demonstrated to you.

Assuming it is possible, if it were demonstrated to you that you had free will, would you accept it?


20 posted on 06/29/2013 5:07:03 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“Whether or not it is demonstrable is not the point. It is whether you would accept it or not if it were demonstrated to you.”


As I said, I won’t say I won’t engage with you. Whether I accept anything or not will depend on if you can demonstrate it, don’t you think? Which is so unlikely that I think the act impossible. Don’t be concerned with whether or not I can accept something, be more concerned that what you want me to accept can even be logically defended.


21 posted on 06/29/2013 5:16:23 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Assume it can be. It’s a very simple thought experiment.

If it could be and was, would you accept it? Could you choose one way or the other?


22 posted on 06/29/2013 5:18:15 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Perhaps revising the question more in line with your preferences will make it easier.

If your having free will choice were logically defended, would you accept it?


23 posted on 06/29/2013 5:23:02 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“Assume it can be. It’s a very simple thought experiment.”


For me it’s not even a thought experiment, because I started off with your opinion, and then came to this truth later on through not just rational understanding, but miraculous revelation. It’s an experiment I’ve gone through in real life, received the “demonstration,” and made the choice some time ago. I find it too difficult, even when asked merely to “assume” it for the sake of a hypothetical, to repeat the experiment again.


24 posted on 06/29/2013 5:24:02 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

>>”made the choice some time ago”

What choice did you make and what was the basis or criteria on which you made this choice?


25 posted on 06/29/2013 5:25:33 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“What choice did you make and what was the basis or criteria on which you made this choice?”


The basis was, and is, purely the scripture.


26 posted on 06/29/2013 5:30:01 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Why did you choose scripture as your basis?


27 posted on 06/29/2013 6:03:27 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

2Ti 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


28 posted on 06/29/2013 6:05:08 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

I take that “as because scripture says so.”

But why did you choose scripture as your basis and criteria?


29 posted on 06/29/2013 6:30:33 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“I take that “as because scripture says so.”


You should take it as exactly what it says, scripture being “profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness, so that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works” because it is “inspired” by the Holy Ghost. Seems a pretty good basis for doctrine then for the Christian.


30 posted on 06/29/2013 6:36:17 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

How did you come to decide that Timothy in the example and other writings were truly scripture and truly “inspired” by the Holy Ghost?


31 posted on 06/29/2013 6:38:46 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“How did you come to decide that Timothy in the example and other writings were truly scripture and truly “inspired” by the Holy Ghost?”


Not its historical validity, its coherence of teachings from one book to the next, its sublime principles and high philosophy beyond that of any man-made philosophy, though it has all of these; ultimately the sole deciding factor was the quickening and revelation of the Holy Spirit upon my own soul.

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


32 posted on 06/29/2013 6:45:54 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

So your direct personal experience which you decided to trust.

Not that it matters, can we assume that if it were historical invalid and incoherent you likely would not have gotten to this point?


33 posted on 06/29/2013 6:49:15 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“Not that it matters, can we assume that if it were historical invalid and incoherent you likely would not have gotten to this point?”


I’m not sure what this has to do with your original complaint. However, could the Word of God ever be historically invalid and incoherent? If it was incoherent, it couldn’t possibly be the Word of God, and there would never have been a Holy Spirit for to make me a believer. It seems a blasphemous thing to even consider when we know it isn’t true. But I know that even as the scripture is historically valid and coherent, full of proofs historical and rational to believe, that there are those who would never believe in it, despite how worthy it is to believe, and there are those who will, because:

1Co_12:3 ... no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


34 posted on 06/29/2013 6:55:35 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

This seems a very reasonable thought process and conclusion. Thanks.

Can you say basically what was your thought process in coming to conclude that scripture says you do not have free will?


35 posted on 06/29/2013 6:57:37 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“Can you say basically what was your thought process in coming to conclude that scripture says you do not have free will?”


My thought process is, that since scripture is by inspiration of God, and therefore infallible in teaching, that it cannot contradict itself. If the scripture teaches that one is predestinated to salvation, beyond any reasonable doubt, we cannot ignore it or attempt to negate it. We must understand and believe it, not supposing that scripture can negate itself, or lead itself to confusion, along with the whole of scripture, putting aside all of our emotional objections to the matter. Too many people approach these doctrines with their assumptions, or have been taught incorrectly by pastors trying too hard to conform themselves to the itching ears of their more carnal members.


36 posted on 06/29/2013 7:06:40 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

That seems a logical conclusion as a result of an organized and logical thought process guided by your criteria/basis.

Would you say that your conclusion concerning free will guides or determines your actions? Likely not all of your actions but some actions in whole or in part?


37 posted on 06/29/2013 7:10:32 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“Would you say that your conclusion concerning free will guides or determines your actions?”


Which actions? My “conclusion” was indeed a conclusion, not something I began with and therefore read into the scripture. If you mean “moral actions,” perhaps, then the doctrine of grace impressed upon me with greater urgency then before the need to ‘shrew my faith by my works,’ as this is the purpose of salvation to begin with. Not as a condition to salvation, but as the purpose of your life and eternity given to you by God. It impressed upon me the fact that nothing I have is my own, but is rather given to me so that I may produce fruit, and that my fruit should abide eternally.

Joh_15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.


38 posted on 06/29/2013 7:21:00 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Yes that’s what I meant. It influences, guides or determines action, in whole or part. In this case it seems quite a bit on a deep level:

“…impressed upon me with greater urgency then before the need to ‘shrew my faith by my works,’ … etc. “

I appreciate your patience in this. I think it helps a great deal to have a specific example to refer to when trying to discuss what may be only an abstract term without it.


39 posted on 06/29/2013 7:25:08 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

The purpose of my questions here was to clarify what we are talking about so that differences in terminology are minimized.

I believe what I’ve just read from you is a person explaining how they skillfully used their free will to come to the conclusion that they have no free will.


40 posted on 06/29/2013 7:29:27 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“I believe what I’ve just read from you is a person explaining how they skillfully used their free will to come to the conclusion that they have no free will.”


I kinda figured that that was what you were aiming for, but you never defined “free-will” to begin with, in the way I asked, so therefore you confuse the existence of the “will,” which I never denied, with “free-will,” which is a wholly mythological thing.


41 posted on 06/29/2013 7:33:02 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Free will as defined as what you just illustrated. This is why I wished a specific example to work with.

Examining and evaluating facts and experience, using judgement, making choices determined by a chosen criteria and choosing to act based on these choices and conclusions.

What is your definition of free will?


42 posted on 06/29/2013 7:40:41 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“What is your definition of free will?”


That it’s “free” number one, and it most certainly isn’t free, as I mentioned in my previous post:

“This assumes that your idea of “free-will” actually exists. None of the Reformers ever denied that mankind has a “will,” and the scripture does not say we have no will either. But, it certainly isn’t a “free” will, as it is either described as being under bondage to sin, taken in “the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will” (2 Tim 2:26) or held captive in the will of God who “works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure” (Php 2:13). So to even utter the phrase “free will” is ridiculous. It is a mere figment of the imagination, an illusion projected by a corrupt nature that does not know itself. So you say that your life can have no meaning unless you have a free-will that simply doesn’t exist. In that case, you should, perhaps, find a new meaning for your life instead of fables!”

If you actually had “free” will, then you wouldn’t need the Holy Spirit to believe in Jesus Christ. You wouldn’t be in the bondage of Satan, and you would be able to cease sinning, as it is a ‘free’ choice to make. But, on the contrary, the unregenerate will is so wholly given over to sin, that it is incapable of even believing or even seeking God:

Rom 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. (12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

So therefore you can have a “will,” but it certainly is’t “free” will. It’s a will that acts, under necessity, according to its nature. In the case of the unregenerate, to death and sin. In the case of the regenerate, to believing in Jesus Christ.


43 posted on 06/29/2013 7:45:27 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Sounds like your describing a raging hormonal teenager.

Children - until a certain age - are willful, completely selfish without concern or consciousness of the other.

Is this your view of the non-elect?


44 posted on 06/29/2013 7:54:57 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“Sounds like your describing a raging hormonal teenager.

Children - until a certain age - are willful, completely selfish without concern or consciousness of the other.

Is this your view of the non-elect?”


I didn’t say “non-elect” or “elect,” I said unregenerate and regenerate, as we are not regenerate until the Holy Spirit quickens us, according to the Father’s good will and purpose before the world began.

Eph 2:2-5 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: (3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. (4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, (5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

So to answer your question, is this my view of the unregenerate and the fleshy parts of the regenerate? My answer is: NO! My view is a WHOLE lot worse of humanity.


45 posted on 06/29/2013 7:59:37 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
“the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will” … or held captive in the will of God

This seems to describe a humanity comprised of only demons or angels. Why is this not what we see in reality?

46 posted on 06/29/2013 8:00:39 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

In your view, could you have come to a different conclusion in your reading of scripture than that there is no such thing as free will? Or is that impossible for the regenerate such as yourself?


47 posted on 06/29/2013 8:08:04 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“This seems to describe a humanity comprised of only demons or angels. Why is this not what we see in reality?”


The argument would actually lend itself to conclude that we were all devils if left alone by God, for the scripture says that “all our righteousness are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf; and our inequity, like the wind, hath taken us away.” In Romans 3, “There are none who are good, no, not one. There are none who seek after God,” etc. And in Jeremiah 17, “The heart is deceitful above all thing, and desperately wicked; who can know it?” And in many other places, which make it clear that no man can stand before the throne of God and claim that they are good.

Luk_18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

But in the regenerate, there is a new man who, though he wars with the old man, is nevertheless the redeemed child of God:

2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Rom 7:22-25 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: (23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. (24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

It is this new creature in Christ who is the “angel” you seek, but certainly not one as a result of human action, owing to some internal goodness in a dead and depraved man seeking out, of itself, to love God. He is totally the creation of God, “born again” by the will of the Spirit.


48 posted on 06/29/2013 8:47:02 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Thanks, but I don’t see the explanation for why we don’t see a world comprised only of demons and angels..


49 posted on 06/29/2013 8:48:31 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

“Thanks, but I don’t see the explanation for why we don’t see a world comprised only of demons and angels..”


Only if you’re still fighting the strawman that the Reformists teach that man is ruled by compulsion, rather than necessity owing to their nature. If the regenerate have a new nature, though with an old man still clinging to it, it stands to reason that they are still capable of sin, though their new man walks with God.

Rom 7:22-23 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: (23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

And unless you disbelieve Christ when He says that there is “no one good, save God,” then you certainly cannot argue that mankind is good. And if they are not good, then they must be wholly bad.


50 posted on 06/29/2013 8:58:55 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-67 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson