Skip to comments.Russia is fated to become center of Christian world
Posted on 07/01/2013 6:15:23 PM PDT by bad company
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God wants no one to perish, but all to repent. That includes the Russians, Chinese, ghetto thugs, homos, and anyone else you care to damn.
A mere lip service to certain family values does not make you a Christian.
Then practice what you preach, and recognize that all sinners have the same chance you had to repent.
“God wants no one to perish, but all to repent. That includes the Russians, Chinese, ghetto thugs, homos, and anyone else you care to damn.”
How is this a reply to ANYTHING I wrote? When Putin repents of all those Journalists murdered in his country, his opponents beaten to an inch of their life in dark alleyways, dissidents abroad who are poisoned or shot in their driveways, when he repents of all these sins and converts to Christianity, he would certainly find a friend in me.
You answered your own question.
Wherever he is, he's still waiting.
“You answered your own question.”
So Putin has repented for being a murdering KGB thug? Has he apologized personally to the families he has destroyed by the murder of their fathers and mothers? Got a link?
Care to respond to that directly? Or would you rather continue to make up things to attack me over?
It is not accidental that we said in clear terms despite pressure coming from the West that we do want to protect children from early sexualization and from the propaganda of homosexuality.
Russia should know. The KGB’s American communists followed the Soviet strategy of deconstructing and demoralizing American society by pushing a variety of destructive social agenda items.
They focused on ripping apart our strength - the family and our Christian culture. Pushing homosexuality and pedophilia was one of the destructive action items. No body hates the family man better than a mentally ill dyke.
“I never said Putin did. I only point out what many here have, which is that the Church is growing in Russia (and China),”
I’ve never seen any evidence that the Christian church in Russia is growing. I do know that Putin’s Mentor, Alexandr Dugin, promotes the ROC under the same terms as that Norwegian shooter from awhile back. As a nationalist church to unite Russia, that is, when he isn’t talking about conquering France and renaming it Gaul. That’s exactly why Putin is promoting “religious” laws to give the ROC an exalted status. Not because he is so Christian or because the ROC is so filled with the Spirit. But because of cultural and nationalistic reasons.
The church in China is growing, but it’s not the state controlled ones with Priests and Bishops assigned and ordained by the state.
The idea of Christianity being combined with state-powers, being promoted by state-powers, and aiding and abetting state-powers, is simply repulsive and anti-Christian. For our Kingdom is NOT of this world, but of the world to come.
“Care to respond to that directly? Or would you rather continue to make up things to attack me over?”
Aren’t you the one making things up to attack me over? You had me here supposedly opposing Putin’s repentance that never happened. If many people here believe that Putin is a Christian King opposing the homosexual agenda, these people lack discernment and don’t know what Christ’s Gospel is really about. It’s not a social movement. It’s not a culture. It isn’t about us at all. It is about what Christ did for us on the cross.
You can keep your filthy state sponsored religion, and I’ll stick with the Gospel.
I'm not blind about who and what Putin is, but God has built His Church under worse, as long as the people were willing to follow Him.
Well said ,dear friend.
What the US has become is far the greater evil compared to Russia, and Putin has much more Christian ideals than Obama ever will .
Given a choice,I would not want either, but it does not look good for Obama and the US when looking through the lens of humility and love of neighbor.
The Russian people have more care of others than the spoiled brat youth in this country
“The Russian people have more care of others than the spoiled brat youth in this country”
LOL, I know plenty of Russians, both within an without of that country, who would vehemently disagree. Of course, theirs isn’t spoiled. They’re too poor to be.
I remember during the Georgian war, seeing photos of Russian soldiers burning American flags and saying “You’re next, America!” Meanwhile, lots of photos of decapitated Georgians, their bodies strewn across fields. And all because Russia wanted the oil pipeline. What’s frightening is the idea that they will justify such atrocities against us under the banner of religion, and us needing killing for being so sinful, since the Kingdom of God is centered in Moscow.
You proved my point.
Proverbs 28:6 Better a poor man whose walk is blameless than a rich man whose ways are perverse.
Proverbs 17:5 He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished.
Whats frightening is the idea that they will justify such atrocities against us under the banner of religion
John Calvin and Mohammed built a whole system under this
I have better things to do than argue over such foolish posts like what you posted me
I wish you a peaceful evening!
“I have better things to do than argue over such foolish posts like what you posted me”
I also have better things to do than argue with foolish posts who equate Calvin with Muhammad, but don’t equate Putin with the Statist and murderer that he is. I guess you better get ready and convert to the Russian Orthodox Church. Maybe get yourself into a church over there with a genuine FSB Priest to set you straight on how holy the Russian state is as opposed to the filthy Georgians and anyone else who happens to stand in the way of Russia’s state interests.
This has become the official line from the Kremlin. It is less surprising, given what sits in the Kremlin if you realize that the KGB was always about control and not about ideology. Kremlin is no longer Communist, — in fact it hasn’t been that since about 1960 (the Chinese were first to notice), — and the Kremlin finds the tale of Christian Russia useful.
The truth is, there is a small, very small core of Orthodox believers in Russia; and a vanishingly small amount of Catholics and Protestants. The typical Russian Orthodox is 50% likely to also not believe in God. Don’t laugh, I got statistics. Of those who identify themselves as Orthodox, under 10% visit church on any regular basis. Orthodoxy has become an ethnic attribute, and since the Russians feel irritated by just about any other nation, Orthodoxy becomes very important to them, not as faith but as attribute.
The Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchy) is a branch of government in Russia. The government promotes them and they promote the government. That, too is not necessarily new: MP toasted Stalin as their liberator and benefactor while he was starving and bleeding the country to death. Ther last honest Russian patriarch was Holy Martyr Tikhon, who died in 1925, and even he appears to have been intimidated into a measure of collaboration with the Reds. The Orthodox core would be nourished by the debris left of Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia and various fractions of the dissipated Catacomb Church.
This, in short is not a model of re-Christianization of the West, as much as I would like it to be.
Before anything good comes out of Russia it needs to be de-sovietized, both the nation and the Church. At this point in time, Putin works on re-sovietization and the Church is running interference for him.
I agree, but what about the US?
Would you know it if you saw it?
Thats exactly why Putin is promoting religious laws to give the ROC an exalted status.
As we'll cover next, you insist on framing this around Putin.
Arent you the one making things up to attack me over? You had me here supposedly opposing Putins repentance that never happened.
You're the one who makes this about Putin, and then accusing me of, well, let's review the posts to see who said what.
In response to this snippet from the artcle, "It is not accidental that we said in clear terms despite pressure coming from the West that we do want to protect children from early sexualization and from the propaganda of homosexuality. And we also said that support for foreign adoptions of Russian children is an extremely irrational step. We do not want these children, adopted by perverts, to lose the hope in which many of them were baptised, and to lose a normal life, Fr. Vsevolod said.", I replied in post 6 "If you had told me in 1980 that a man who at the time was a KGB agent would be leading the battle for Christian values in defiance of the US...Unreal."
This was clearly in the context of blocking the homosexual agenda, which I included in that post.
In your reply in post 36, you made this about Putin, going so far as to say "There is no Christian King coming out of Russia. Just a Czar wannabe who has no problem murdering those who get in his way." As if no one else in Russia could serve God in this capacity.
Fair enough. In my reply to you in post 49, I said "I'm not blind about who and what Putin is, but God has built His Church under worse, as long as the people were willing to follow Him." and "Jesus was born in the Roman Empire, and under Herod." I acknowledged that Putin was not a good guy, but also said that God could build His Church in Russia anyway.
Once again, in post 50, you ignored the Russian Christians and made it about Putin, saying "Why got to Putin or the ROC, who are built upon corruption and murder?"
My reply in post 51 was "God wants no one to perish, but all to repent. That includes the Russians, Chinese, ghetto thugs, homos, and anyone else you care to damn."
Ignoring this, you again made it about Putin in post 52, and in every post since.
Since anyone who bothers to read through the distortions in your posts can see what each of us said, care to drop your Putin strawman and reply to what I actually said?
You can keep your filthy state sponsored religion, and Ill stick with the Gospel.
Where in the Gospel are to told to decide who can be used to serve His purpose?i
“”I also have better things to do than argue with foolish posts who equate Calvin with Muhammad””
Smarter people have already figured out those comparisons,DR E
The Great Heresies
By Hilaire Belloc
By the Grace of God the soviets failed before, and if what you post is true then by His grace they'll fail again.
“Where in the Gospel are to told to decide who can be used to serve His purpose?”
You’ve done a lot to document your replies, but your replies are still nonsensical. Of course I brought up Putin. One of the posts mentioned the Kremlin propaganda of the “Christian King,” and since the ROC is an agent of the Kremlin, of course I bring it back to Putin. And since I know there is no real revival going on being led by real Christian believers, of course I care not for all this talk about people being “used” by God. If the Gospel was all about the homoexuals, then maybe you’d have a point. But until someone is there preaching Christ and Him crucified, as opposed to purely cultural and nationalistic messages, I cannot call it Christian. This is policy from Moscow, not Holy people fighting against the eeevils of the West. It’s just evil rebranded under a state sponsored church.
“Smarter people have already figured out those comparisons,DR E”
I am not Dr. E. And I do not find apologies and interference for Moscow to be smart.
Despite horrendous assault on the Christian civilization by the dark forces, America remains the hope for the rest of the world. We have nowhere to run and should expect liberation from no other nation but our own.
Oh, yes, they’ll fail, but after they finally do, Russia will be convalescing for generations. The patient is lucky to be alive now, and no end is in sight.
I don’t have faith that America is hope for Christians.
I know better.
I believe the poorest of the poor and the poorest of all nations is the hope of Christians-where persecution is the greatest
If that should happen, Russia, with its vast territory and resources, would become a magnet for disaffected Westerners and Christians. They would be welcomed by the Russians who will need a large population if they are to resist the pressures of China and the Muslim World.
This is true not only of Russia, but of religious identity almost everywhere. In Northern Ireland, being "Catholic" or "Protestant" had less to do with theology than whether you were loyal to the British crown or not. In the Balkans, the joke was was that a Bosnian was a "Muslim" who never went to Mosque, while a Croat and a Serb were respectively "Catholics" and "Orthodox" who never went to Church. Yet they were willing to murder one another over their supposed "religion."
If religion is to survive in any form, it will do so as part and parcel of an ethnicity and a culture. Taken outside of that context, theology just doesn't mean much to most people.
May God have mercy upon their souls.
Hope is not of knowledge.
However, America remains among few nations where God has a prominent place in the national consciousness. Everywhere else religion is ornamental, or else not of interest at all.
This being said, the True Church is getting more compact everywhere. It seems that the role of nations as families of believers is diminishing for all of us.
Poverty, in the meanwhile, is entering American mental landscape again, and with it humility will come.
These are the contours of hope, but I cannot prove it to you.
I agree. This is why I am a nationalist: not every people is a nation, and to become and to remain a nation there must be a national enterprise of salvation as a common project. Similar as husband and wife in a family are mutually responsible for salvation of their household (Acts 11:14, 16:31), so are true nations centered around common spirituality that leads its best sons to Christ (Revelation 5:9).
Russia was such a nation once; today it is not. France, Ireland, Germany, Spain were highly spiritual nations and perhaps retain some potential. But today I see robust national energy only in the Americas.
On the other hand, there are universalist tendencies in many religions that actively undermine nationalism, because people develop sympathies with members of the same faith among other nations and peoples rather than with their own countrymen. A good example of this are many liberal American Catholics who want to inundate the US with as many Latin American immigrants as possible, and many Evangelicals who want to bring in lots of Third World people as potential converts recruited to their Churches. On the national question, religious organizations in the US have been consistently unreliable.
I truly believe in my heart that the Fall of the United States will bring about the greatest opportunity for Salvation fOR many Christians
US foreign policy has aided the devil for far too long for me to believe God has given GRACE FOR THIS COUNTRY TO BE IN UNION WITH HIM
Salvation fOR should say Salvation of
Mostly Serbs, but you’ll all get the point. I understand we now have gay”marriages” and bring your own snake preachers among our troops. Lucky us!
For example, from your post 58, "You can keep your filthy state sponsored religion, and Ill stick with the Gospel."
Really? According to the Gospel, God wants no one to perish and all to repent, and the Church of that Gospel was able to grow even under Nero's persecution.
But the god you worship is unable to overcome Putin and build a church in Russia, and needs you to tell him/her who he/she's capable of saving. And you're still doing it. "But until someone is there preaching Christ and Him crucified, as opposed to purely cultural and nationalistic messages, I cannot call it Christian." No thank you. I'll stay with the true God who can build a Church in the Roman Empire, Russia, China, or anywhere else where people gather and call His name.
Care to put a time line of events on that?
“Really? According to the Gospel, God wants no one to perish and all to repent, and the Church of that Gospel was able to grow even under Nero’s persecution.”
You aren’t even debating with me. You’re debating someone else and are just quoting me, as if I said something about repentance or whatnot. I never denied any of these things, you just keep asserting them for who knows what reason.
“But the god you worship is unable to overcome Putin and build a church in Russia, and needs you to tell him/her who he/she’s capable of saving.”
Keep in mind you are agreeing with Kremlin Propagandists that Russia will be the center of world Christianity, even though, as the other poster pointed out, Orthodoxy in Russia is more of an attribute (as I have also noticed) than it is an actual faith, with many of the “faithful” unlikely to even believe that there is a God to begin with.
This has nothing to do with God not having power to save His own in Russia. We can say this of any country that doesn’t have some government sponsored religion making the claim. It just has everything to do with a false Nationalistic Gospel being promoted by Putin and the ROC.
So you can keep bothering me about how I’m against the working of God, or repentence, or whatnot, but it has nothing whatever to do with anything I have said. You’re just ranting with self-righteous fury over something I have never disputed.
Nice try. I have answered your points directly, as anyone who still cares to review this thread will see.
Keep in mind you are agreeing with Kremlin Propagandists that Russia will be the center of world Christianity
My original comment on this thread was in response to the Russians protecting their children from the homosexual agenda while the leader of the free world is forcing it on our children.
As for whether I'm agreeing with them about Russia becoming the center of Christianity, I never commented on that, and I won't say it can't happen.
even though, as the other poster pointed out, Orthodoxy in Russia is more of an attribute (as I have also noticed) than it is an actual faith, with many of the faithful unlikely to even believe that there is a God to begin with.
OK, let's go with your premise that many Russian Christians are acting out of tradition rather than faith. What about those who remained faithful even in the Soviet Union when it was illegal. Did they risk prison just over a tradition they didn't really believe in?
Again, the Church grew under the persecution of the Roman Empire. Why not Russia, China, or (hopefully) even a revival here?
“My original comment”
And I wasn’t responding to you. I was responding to the thread and the propaganda of Russia becoming the “center of the Christian world.”
“As for whether I’m agreeing with them about Russia becoming the center of Christianity, I never commented on that, and I won’t say it can’t happen.”
Then we disagree on nothing, since we aren’t even talking about the same thing.
“Again, the Church grew under the persecution of the Roman Empire. Why not Russia, China, or (hopefully) even a revival here?”
Certainly that’s possible in any country, not just Russia, or as is currently happening in China. It’s just that the Kremlin propaganda is not a manifestation of any actual revival, but rather of a policy position by the Kremlin.
Sounds good to me.
I would say the inexact opposite: nationalism is good when Christian, bad otherwise. Indeed, peoples who are not Christian are not really a people: "[you] in time past were not a people: but are now the people of God." (1 Peter 2:10).
Mass replacements of one people with another has nothing to do with Christianity.
You mean, the liberal project in the United States should fall. It must and it will. I speak of American nation; you speak of American government.
No: the movement is in the opposite direction, unfortunately. So long as the price of oil remains high, it may be a long while.
Now more than ever we need Russia. A faith promoting country on the move with a flat tax, and a strong sensible leader.
"What about those (Russian Christians) who remained faithful even in the Soviet Union when it was illegal. Did they risk prison just over a tradition they didn't really believe in?"
Groups like this needs to fall for the US to change
No one is saying that we want to start another Cold War, just that the pretense of the Third Rome was always a stretch, and is ridiculous today.
Yes. The views on abortion are indeed what divides our nation most starkly, and America cannot be renewed unless abortion becomes what it is, an unspeakable horror and a national shame.
Russia under Putin is the most Christian land in the world. May the Lord Jesus protect him and the Russian Orthodox people.
Speak of the devil.
I know better.
Being as a Christian should look to only one place for hope, instead was the revised and extended [below] added;
The "hope" of Christians? Many of those Christians are looking to the U.S. for some hope, despite many of our own present cultural exports contain ungodliness in the mix.
The poor and the persecuted cannot "save" us. Helping them, of course, just puts those who will do so in the gun sights, both figurative and very real, of those doing the persecuting. Sort-of like it can here...but we face figurative gun sights from those who would persecute Christians, more then we do actual gun barrels.
For reason of increasing percentage of loud, noisy, obnoxious sinners, it does seem to me you may be overlooking those set-upon and continually opposed Christians right here in the U.S.
Are those Christians not yet enough persecuted for your liking?
Now for the real question;
Tell me true...just where today, right now do you stand?