Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Lds Temple Haunted? Did Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to leader? [Vanity]
Free Republic [Vanity] ^ | July 1, 2011 | Colofornian

Posted on 07/04/2013 8:54:37 AM PDT by Colofornian

St. George Mormon Temple Haunted? Did the Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to a later Lds 'prophet'?

Without saying his name, Mormon leaders and grassroots Mormons daily reference Wilford Woodruff when they interact with non-Mormons and the media.

How so?

Well, they like to tell others how polygamy is a supposed bygone of another era; how a certain Lds "prophet" in 1890 put the kabosh on it...or, at least, started a mainstream Mormon move toward monogamy.

Yet, there's a little-known episode that this same Wilford Woodruff said that occurred in the 1870s -- before becoming the head "prophet" of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In the last two weeks before he left the St. George, Utah temple, we have at least four accounts that claim that the spirits of the signers of the Declaration of Independence -- with George Washington -- having appeared to Woodruff.

Is the temple haunted? Were these indeed ghosts of the signers?

Could they have been demons in disguise as ghosts?

Or was the one even contemporary Mormons appeal to as the "authoritative" voice of God on polygamy vs. monogamy perhaps given to wild religious fantasies?

Furthermore, does the official Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints play down this occultic episode as being just a small event in the life of Woodruff?

Or are the sources questionable?

The answer to these last two questions is: Not at all. In fact anybody can go to Lds.org and find Lesson 39 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, where they would see a Sunday School lesson plan that actually plays it up and highlights Woodruff's claims...giving credence that contemporary Mormons buy into it! -- The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers

In fact, in the lesson plan detailing the account, Mormon church curricula writers then have their teachers ask the question:

What can we learn from these two stories? (Answers could include that those who are dead are anxious for us to perform ordinances for them and that we should be diligent in our efforts to redeem the dead.)

So the Mormon church actually see such occultic ghostly/demonic encounters as evidential of baptizing dead spirits!

Furthermore, Brigham Young University also includes the account as part of their curricula for incoming freshmen who have taken their "Religious Education Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy)" course. In the BYU version of the account, the comment includes how "those men who laid the foundation of this American Government and signed the Declaration of Independence were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits, not wicked men."

Yet Lds doctrine is that ALL men and ALL church members of the 18th century were "apostates." Joseph Smith claimed that when entities appeared to him -- supposedly early in the 19th century -- that he wasn't to join any of the churches that the founding fathers of our country were part of...plus Smith specifically said that these unnamed entities told him that "all" professors (professing believers) were "corrupt" (see Lds "scripture," Joseph Smith History, Pearl of Great Price, verses 18-20). How could the signers of the Declaration of Independence be both "choice spirits, not wicked" -- and "corrupt?"

Official Mormon doctrine emerged -- a doctrine that remains to this day -- that the historic Christian church went into complete apostasy well before the Founding Fathers came along and remained in apostasy in the 18th century. How can BYU label "apostates" the founding fathers? How can they "play it both ways" -- that the Founding Fathers were both apostates and "choice spirits, not wicked?"

Four accounts of The Haunting of St. George Temple:

1870s (Last two weeks before Woodruff left the temple):

Account #1 (BYU curricula): The following account of Wilford Woodruff helps demonstrate the importance of this work to those who are on the other side of the veil. I am going to bear my testimony to this assembly, if I never do it again in my life, that those men who laid the foundation of this American Government and signed the Declaration of Independence were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits, not wicked men. George Washington and all the men that labored for the purpose were inspired of the Lord. Another thing I am going to say here, because I have a right to say it. Every one of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence with General Washington called upon me, as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple at St. George two consecutive nights, and demanded at my hands that I should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the house of God for them. Men are here, I believe, that know of this—Brothers J. D. T. McAllister, David H. Cannon and James C. Bleak. Brother McAllister baptized me for all these men, and I then told these brethren that it was their duty to go into the Temple and labor until they got endowments for all of them. They did it. Would those spirits have called upon me, as an Elder in Israel, to perform that work if they had not been noble spirits before God? They would not. I bear this testimony because it is true. The spirit of God bore record to myself and the brethren while we were laboring in that way (Lundwall, 1947, p. 87). Source: Religious Education C261 Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy)

Account #2 (personal journal of Chief Record of the St. George temple): Temple and witnessed the appearance of the Spirits of the Signers... .the spirits of the Presidents...And also others, such as Martin Luther and John Wesley...Who came to Wilford Woodruff and demanded that their baptism and endowments be done. Wilford Woodruff was baptized for all of them. While I and Brothers J.D.T. McAllister and David H Cannon (who were witnesses to the request) were endowed for them. These men.. ..laid the foundation of this American Gov., and signed the Declaration of Independence and were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth to perform this work. Martin Luther and John Wesley helped to release the people from religious bondage that held them during the dark ages. They also prepared the peoples hearts so they would be ready to receive the restored gospel when the Lord sent it again to men on the earth.” (Personal journal of James Godson Bleak-Chief Recorder of the St. George Temple) p. 2 of this pdf: Vision of Former Eminent Men in The St. George Temple (By Glen W. Chapman, Jan, 2002)

Account #3 (Journal of Discourses): Every one of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence with General Washington, called upon me as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple at St. George, two consecutive nights, and demanded at my hands that I should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the House of God for them. Men are here, I believe, that know of this, Brother J. D. T. McAllister, David H. Cannon and James S. Bleak. Brother McAllister baptized me for all those men, and then I told these brethren that it was their duty to go into the temple and labor until they had got endowments for all of them. They did it. Would those spirits have called upon me as an elder of Israel, to perform that work, if they had not been noble spirits before God? They would not. JoD, vol. 19, pp. 229-231, Sept. 16, 1877

Account #4 (Official Lds curricula): Explain that for a period of time, President Woodruff served as president of the temple in St. George, Utah. It was in that temple that endowments for the dead were performed for the first time in this dispensation (see Doctrines of Salvation, 2:171). While serving there, President Woodruff was visited by the spirits of many “eminent men” who had died. Invite a class member to share the following account by President Woodruff: “The spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, ‘You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we … remained true to it and were faithful to God.’ These were the signers of the Declaration of Independence [of the United States of America], and they waited on me for two days and two nights. … I straightway went into the baptismal font and called upon Brother McAllister to baptize me for the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and fifty other eminent men, making one hundred in all, including John Wesley, Columbus, and others” (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, sel. G. Homer Durham [1946], 160–61). • What can we learn from these two stories? (Answers could include that those who are dead are anxious for us to perform ordinances for them and that we should be diligent in our efforts to redeem the dead.) ((Lds Sunday School lesson from "Doctrine and Covenants and Church History," "The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers," p. 3)
Source: Lesson 39 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual -- The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers


TOPICS: Other Christian; Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS: ghosts; independence; lds; mormonism; randsconcerntrolls; sectarianturmoil
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-126 next last
[This is a repost of a thread originally posted two years ago]

Since this was published, I discovered the online link for Account #3: Not Ashamed of the Gospel—Thirty Years Progress in the Mountains—The Gospel Unchangeable—Joseph Inspired—President Young's Work—Work of the Twelve—Labors in St. George Temple—Gathering of the Spirits of the Dead Discourse by Elder Wilford Woodruff, delivered in the New Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Sunday Afternoon, September 16, 1877, transcribed by Geo. F. Gibbs on pp223-230 of volume 19 of the Journal of Discourses.

Here is a larger excerpt from this Lds "prophet" -- from Vol. 19, 1877:

...it was a duty that the God of heaven required of him to open up the Gospel to those in the spirit world who had not received it. And there is no greater duty resting upon the Latter-day Saints today than that of building Temples, and officiating therein for the dead as well as the living...We have labored in the St. George Temple since January, and we have done all we could there; and the Lord has stirred up our minds, and many things have been revealed to us concerning the dead. President Young has said to us, and it is verily so, if the dead could they would speak in language loud as ten thousand thunders, calling upon the servants of God to rise up and build Temples, magnify their calling and redeem their dead. This doubtless sounds strange to those present who believe not the faith and doctrine of the Latter-day Saints; but when we get to the spirit world we will find out that all that God has revealed is true. We will find, too, that everything there is reality, and that God has a body, parts and passions, and the erroneous ideas that exist now with regard to him will have passed away. I feel to say little else to the Latter-day Saints wherever and whenever I have the opportunity of speaking to them, than to call upon them to build these Temples now under way, to hurry them up to completion. THE DEAD WILL BE AFTER YOU, THEY WILL SEEK AFTER YOU AS THEY HAVE AFTER US IN ST. GEORGE. THEY CALLED UPON US...two weeks before I left St. George, the spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, "You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we never apostatized from it, but we remained true to it and were faithful to God." These were the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and they waited on me for two days and two nights. I thought it very singular, that notwithstanding so much work had been done, and yet nothing had been done for them. The thought never entered my heart, from the fact, I suppose, that heretofore our minds were reaching after our more immediate friends and relatives. I straightway went into the baptismal font and called upon brother McCallister to baptize me for the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and fifty other eminent men, making one hundred in all, including John Wesley, Columbus, and others; I then baptized him for every President of the United States, except three; and when their cause is just, somebody will do the work for them. I have felt to rejoice exceedingly in this work of redeeming the dead...

1 posted on 07/04/2013 8:54:37 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: All
From the article: Furthermore, Brigham Young University also includes the account as part of their curricula for incoming freshmen who have taken their "Religious Education Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy)" course. In the BYU version of the account, the comment includes how "those men who laid the foundation of this American Government and signed the Declaration of Independence were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were CHOICE SPIRITS, not wicked men."

On June 23, Lds had this special worldwide broadcast to its wards about its new missionary emphasis.

In this two-hour presentation, a pre-recorded clip
-- an interview with a long-time Mormon convert --
--Neill F. Marriott (she converted pre-marriage, pre-11 children after graduating from Southern Methodist University) was conducted...
[For who she is, you can see: General Auxiliaries: Sister Neill F. Marriott]...
Anyway, Mrs. Marriott talked about her 11 children as also being "choice spirits"...

What does the term "choice spirits" mean in Mormon culture...

That "special spirits" who existed in the alleged "pre-existence" came down from another planet and inhabited particular bodies.

2 posted on 07/04/2013 9:05:24 AM PDT by Colofornian (West went South)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Could Mrs. Marriott be referring to "spirit babies" - the idea that ancestor Mormons in their heaven are creating spirit babies that need "tabernacles" or bodies and those on Earth now need to make lots of babies so that these "spirit babies" will have a place to go.

It's been awhile since i read about it, but that's the general idea I got. HTH.
3 posted on 07/04/2013 9:24:46 AM PDT by PrairieDawg (Hey, hey - ho, ho - Chickenpooper's got to go!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; Zakeet; Tennessee Nana; aMorePerfectUnion; Godzilla; fishtank; metmom; ..
In before the personal attacks....

Leave it alone..mormon style.

The Mormon church is preparing to blanket the globe with more missionaries than ever as a surge of young men and women pack their white shirts, ties and knee-length skirts.

More than 29,000 church members are expected to report in coming months, bringing the worldwide total of missionaries proselytizing and performing community service to an all-time high of 85,000 by this fall, new church estimates show.

That's 38 percent more than at any other time in history.

At least one church analyst predicts the total could swell to more than 100,000 next year before it levels out somewhat in the next several years. That would be nearly double the number of missionaries the church had during most of the 2000s.

BUT....FR mormons whine and complain about the presence of a few dozen FReepers who bring the truth about mormonism to light.

4 posted on 07/04/2013 9:27:47 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Thanks, Mitt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

Church leaders “daily reference” this??? Your credibility is, once again, exposed as near-zero.

I am in my 50’s and have been actively involved in the LDS church for a lifetime, living in multiple states, and I have never, ever heard a church leader reference this, even once.

My impression is that you seem to fall into the category of those who lie to deceive because they suppose that others are lying to deceive.


5 posted on 07/04/2013 9:29:09 AM PDT by JustTheTruth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
What does the term "choice spirits" mean in Mormon culture...

....obviously "choice spirits" is defined by mormons to point out the superiority of mormonism over all Christian religions and the "speshulness" of its members.

6 posted on 07/04/2013 9:31:59 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Thanks, Mitt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

Anyone want to feel what ‘perfumed emptiness’ feels like, just visit a Mormon church.

Its a VERY uneasy feeling.

EXACT same feeling when I visited the Masonic Temple in Alexandria.

Something very ‘false’ about those two places.


7 posted on 07/04/2013 9:46:17 AM PDT by Hammerhead
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
What does the term "choice spirits" mean in Mormon culture...


"Choice, as in "it is so choice"

8 posted on 07/04/2013 9:47:12 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
An Open Letter to Mormons who are
sincere and serious about their faith...
 
(but slightly troubled and embarrassed by posts
that raise problems with mormon teachings and
beliefs that cannot be answered)
 
If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums
you will notice a pattern. There’s a group of
Christians who spend a great deal of time posting
from Official Mormon Sources - both the Book of
Mormon as well as Mormon Prophets and Church
materials - real quotes from real mormon materials.
 
You will also notice that many of these Christians
are former Mormons who left Mormonism and came to
know the Biblical Jesus Christ and His Gospel of Grace
- apart from the treadmill of human works.
 
They have a passion to share what they learned with
other Mormons.
 
Of course, they are attacked regularly by a very,
small group of Mormons on FR who have zeal, but no real
knowledge beyond what the Mormon Church has told
them.
 
Why can't these so-called "defenders" provide any:
 
… Objective Facts
… Objective Evidence
… Or Logical support
 
Anything OBJECTIVE that any reasonable person would
see and agree that it lends support the claims of
Mormonism.
 
God is a God of real history. He wove the strands of
human DNA, His Book, the Bible is rooted and grounded
in real places on real maps and is verified through
archeology, geography, history and genetics.
 
If Mormonism is true, why is it based only on subjective
feelings and
why doesn't it have the same kind of objective
support the Bible does
?
 
Has God changed?
 
Is He no longer in control of the world?
 
If they could support the claims of Mormonism with facts,
you know they would. But it never happens. I've even heard
these "defenders" say God hid all evidence to make our
faith greater. Has the God of the universe now become
the Cosmic Easter Bunny? Or is He unchangeable, like the
Bible teaches?
 
*** Why would God provide every kind of objective support
for the Bible's rich history and none for the Book of
Mormon? ***
 
These "defenders" post links over and over again that
“address” things yet never provide an answer that is
buttressed by the ring of truth, echoed by history,
archeology, genetics, geography, etc.
 
You deserve more than feelings and non-answers.
 
After reading both sides on this thread and others,
you may very well be wondering about what you were
taught when you joined the LDS church. You also may
be wondering how to resolve the tension of a faith
that is based entirely on subjective claims, yet
wants to claim the same God who has commanded you
to love Him with "all your mind."
 
You are not alone in this journey.
 
Many have approached us who are Christians asking where
to find out more and some, even, to ask how to come to
know the Biblical Christ and some even how  to gracefully
leave Mormonism and start a new life with Christ.
 
Many here have already set out to finally and joyfully know
the true God and Savior. They understand the terrible choice
of being totally sincere about your faith, but increasingly
concerned that it isn't everything you once believed and hoped for
.

After coming to know the truth, they are on a path that gives them
the rest God promised to His children and the certainty of His
ultimate plan for them.
 
Here are some links to get you started in your quest to know
the Biblical Christ:
http://www.irr.org/mit/default.html
http://www.exmormonsforjesus.org/
http://4mormon.org/ex-mormon.php
http://www.exmormon.org/
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/
In the end though, links may raise more questions and concerns
and sometimes it helps to have someone who has already wrestled
with all these issues already.
 
I invite you to private FReep-mail any of the Christians
on this thread to ask questions about the concerns you have.
 
We always do our best to directly answer your questions with
facts, evidence and logical support.
 
Take a step. I also challenge you to not only pray about these issues,
but go the one step farther and examine them to see if they are
true quotes, true teachings of the LDS church. Are you intellectually
honest enough to do this, or are you satisfied with just feelings
and a lack of facts, evidence and logic? If you are not willing to
examine your faith, is it because of what you might learn? Or are you
indeed intellectually lazy?
 
What do you have to lose at this point? And you have much to
gain. 
 
If something is true, it can withstand any question, no matter
how tough. If it is false, it is better to know while your life
is in front of you.
 
There is peace and rest waiting for you today. Take a step to
find it now.
 
All the Best,
ampu

9 posted on 07/04/2013 9:54:12 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( “The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.” - Tacitus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
The 'spirits appearing to people' thing is in D&C or POGP. When the original temple is fired up, first the prophet Isaiah appears to the leader, and everyone goes hubbahubba to it (Smith? I can't remember. It's been a lifetime since I read it.). Then, further on, it say Isaias appears, and everyone is amazed, except that Isaias is the greek form of Isaiah, so Isaiah actually appeared twice. Maybe he wore a Groucho nose the second time, so nobody would know.

I quit taking Mormonism seriously after that.

10 posted on 07/04/2013 9:57:47 AM PDT by Othniel (No, I don't have a plan. And doesn't that scare you to death?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian; greyfoxx39; colorcountry; ejonesie22; Elsie; Godzilla; Holly_P; MHGinTN; narses; ...

LDS Temple Haunted ...

According to the noted historians Hubert Bancroft and Fawn Brodie, the Saints maintain that their 1836 dedication of the Kirtland, Ohio Mormon Temple featured appearances by "Jesus Christ, Moses, Elijah, Elias, and numerous angels; speaking and singing in tongues, often with translations; prophesying; foot washing; and other spiritual experiences." (See also D&C Sec. 110)

Mrs. Brodie went on to point out that the Saints had made and consumed a large amount of home brew in honor of the occasion, causing a number of them to be bombed out of their skulls.

It has also been well established that LDS leadership has from time to time lived by a different set of rules than those advocated in the Word of Wisdom. For example, Joseph Smith frequented Mossier's Tavern in Nauvoo, before opening a saloon in his mansion there. According to LDS President John Taylor, Joseph also polished off a bottle of wine before he was killed in a blotched jail break. The Tanners have proven that Brigham Young owned a distillery in Utah.

You don't suppose these facts may, in some part, help explain the sightings of ghosts in the St. George Temple?

Just asking ...

11 posted on 07/04/2013 10:38:07 AM PDT by Zakeet (If idiots could fly, Washington would be an airport)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JustTheTruth; Colofornian

I have heard it plenty of times, it is one of the favorite ‘temple stories’. It has often been referenced in conference talks as well as LDS church history manual (official).

https://www.lds.org/manual/print/church-history-in-the-fulness-of-times-student-manual/chapter-thirty-two-brigham-youngs-presidencythe-final-decade?lang=eng

Ezra Taft Benson, “The Faith of our Founding Fathers,” 21 said this...

Shortly after Spencer W. Kimball became president of the Church, we met together in one of out weekly meetings. We spoke of the sacred records that are in the vaults of the various temples of the Church. As I was soon to fill a conference assignment to St. George, President Kimball asked if I would go into the vault at the temple and check the early records. In so doing, I realized the fulfillment of a dream I had had ever since learning of the visit of the Founding Fathers to this sacred place. I saw with my own eyes the records of the work that was done for the Founding Fathers of this great nation, beginning with George Washington. I was deeply moved on that occasion to realize that these great men returned to this promised land by permission of the Lord and had their ordinance work done for them. If they had not been faithful men, if they had not been God-fearing men, would they have come to the elders of Israel to seek their temple blessings? I think not. The Lord raised them up, sanctioned their work, and proclaimed them “wise men.” Moreover, a president of the Church declared them to be the “best spirits the God of heaven could find on the face of the earth,” and testified that they were “choice spirits” and “inspired of the Lord.”

“And there in the St. George temple I saw what I had always hoped and prayed that someday
I would see. Ever since I returned as a humble mi
ssionary and first learned that the Founding
Fathers had appeared in that temple, I wanted to
see the record. And I saw the record . They did
appear to Wilford Woodruff twice and asked why
the work hadn’t been done for them. They had
founded this country and the Constitution of this la
nd, and they had been true to those principles
....
In the archives of the temple, I saw in a book, in bold handwriting names of the Founding
Fathers and others, including Columbus and other
great Americans, for whom the work had been
done in the house of the Lord... .All these appeared
to Wilford Woodruff when he was President
of the St. George Temple. President George Wash
ington was ordained a High Priest at that time.
You will also be interested to know that accord
ing to Wilford Woodruff’s journal, John Wesley,
Benjamin Franklin, and Christopher Columbus we
re also ordained High Priests at the time.”
(TEACHINGS OF EZRA TAFT BENSON
p. 603-4.)

I can give you other references as well.

My impression is that you seem to fall into the category of those who lie to deceive because they they need to make the LDS church seem ‘normal’.


12 posted on 07/04/2013 10:56:14 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian. I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: JustTheTruth; Colofornian

More sources from current LDS manuals - for someone with the screename ‘justthetruth’ you haven’t been telling it.

https://www.lds.org/search?lang=eng&collection=manuals&query=signers&x=0&y=0


13 posted on 07/04/2013 11:02:10 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian. I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet
I had a vision last night here in southern Utah. Noticed the empty vodka bottle this morning so I know stuff happens.

We don't call it a living history museum for no reason.

14 posted on 07/04/2013 11:07:15 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Utah Binger

LOL, have to lock up the Vodka from the ghosts.


15 posted on 07/04/2013 11:16:00 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian. I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Hammerhead
Anyone want to feel what ‘perfumed emptiness’ feels like, just visit a Mormon church. Its a VERY uneasy feeling.

The one time I visited a Mormon church was during a family trip to Salt Lake City, when we took a tour of Temple Square and listened to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. The people were lovely, and we couldn't have had a better time.

16 posted on 07/04/2013 11:58:55 AM PDT by Kip Russell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

The LDS culture sees the division between the living and the dead as a thin and two-way passable veil. It is commonplace for dead relatives to visit and say things to the living(necromancy, talking to dead people, which scripture forbids) in the LDS world.

Cemeteries in the LDS culture are active places, where the living relatives will leave gifts, leave little solar lights and decorations, leave candles, even leave treats, in the thinking that it will please their relatives.

The cemetery, in fact, is one of the most telling places to indicate that indeed, Mormonism is paganism with a Christian veneer.

We watch it every day, as we live in a 90% LDS community, and our front door has faced the cemetery across the street for the last 23 years.


17 posted on 07/04/2013 12:13:49 PM PDT by lurk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: reaganaut

I am still waiting for anything to remotely support the “daily reference” assertion. Crickets chirping on that one?

Also, when in history have devoted followers of God and their beliefs been considered “normal” by the prevailing religious “orthodoxy” of the world in their day?


18 posted on 07/04/2013 12:17:20 PM PDT by JustTheTruth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: JustTheTruth
Church leaders “daily reference” this??? Your credibility is, once again, exposed as near-zero. I am in my 50’s and have been actively involved in the LDS church for a lifetime, living in multiple states, and I have never, ever heard a church leader reference this, even once.

Check your reading skills.

#1...The "daily reference" was to Woodruff himself...not this "temple experience" he had with "the dead."

#2...I lumped grassroots Mormons AND church leaders TOGETHER...didn't "single them out" like you did.

#3...as an IDENTITY GROUP, yes, Mormons DAILY reference (at least indirectly) Woodruff.

Why? How? Because some Mormon somewhere...daily...is talking about the polygamy manifesto of 1890 -- issued by Woodruff. The context is usually some Mormon somewhere -- perhaps some Mormon missionary -- saying that "No, we don't engage in polygamy, anymore...back in 1890...President Woodruff..."

19 posted on 07/04/2013 12:31:27 PM PDT by Colofornian (West went South)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Did the Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to a later Lds 'prophet'?

Well....



 
 
 

The Church Fathers and some modern Christian writers have debated the theological issues raised by this text. The story of King Saul and the Witch of Endor would appear at first sight to affirm that it is possible for humans to summon the spirits of the dead by magic.

Medieval glosses to the Bible suggested that what the witch actually summoned was not the ghost of Samuel, but a demon taking his shape or an illusion crafted by the witch.[9] Martin Luther, who believed that the dead were unconscious, read that it was "the Devil's ghost", whereas John Calvin, who did believe in the immortal soul, read that "it was not the real Samuel, but a spectre."[10]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_of_Endor

 

20 posted on 07/04/2013 12:33:17 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39
BUT....FR mormons whine and complain about the presence of a few dozen FReepers who bring the truth about mormonism to light.

Many non-Mormons complain too.

21 posted on 07/04/2013 12:33:45 PM PDT by Jean S
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39; teppe; District13; restornu
BUT....FR mormons whine and complain about the presence of a few dozen FReepers who bring the truth about mormonism to light.

That is because we are WAY more effective!

22 posted on 07/04/2013 12:34:21 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: JustTheTruth

“I am in my 50’s and have been actively involved in the LDS church for a lifetime, living in multiple states, and I have never, ever heard a church leader reference this, even once.”


I’ve actively involved myself with LDS for just a year or two and have heard it many times.


23 posted on 07/04/2013 12:35:16 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: JustTheTruth
Your credibility is, once again, exposed as near-zero.

Then listen to one whose credibility is above question:

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)


24 posted on 07/04/2013 12:35:30 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: JustTheTruth
My impression is that you seem to fall into the category of those who lie to deceive because they suppose that others are lying to deceive.

Deceptive lies are troubling all right...


The following are the LYING images that MORMONism has produced, KNOWING that they represent something FALSE!!
 
 
   

25 posted on 07/04/2013 12:36:31 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet; All
LDS Temple Haunted ... According to the noted historians Hubert Bancroft and Fawn Brodie, the Saints maintain that their 1836 dedication of the Kirtland, Ohio Mormon Temple featured appearances by "Jesus Christ, Moses, Elijah, Elias, and numerous angels; speaking and singing in tongues, often with translations; prophesying; foot washing; and other spiritual experiences." (See also D&C Sec. 110) Mrs. Brodie went on to point out that the Saints had made and consumed a large amount of home brew in honor of the occasion, causing a number of them to be bombed out of their skulls.

1836: The Haunting of Kirtland Temple:
Temple dedications were often the scenes of such mysterious occurrences. Joseph Smith wrote of "many strange visions" that were seen when the first temple was dedicated at Kirkland, Ohio on 27 March 1836. It was noted that men would run about "under the influence," while others would "speak in a muttering, unnatural voice and their bodies [would] be distorted...."(49) 49. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, 1 April 1842, page 747. Source:

GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism

Many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen

"Soon after the Gospel was established in Kirtland...many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild, enthusiastic notions were entertained; men ran out doors under the influence of this spirit, and some of them got upon the stumps of trees and shouted, and all kinds of extravagances were entered into by them; one man pursued a ball that he said he saw flying in the air, until he came to a precipice, when he jumped into the top of a tree, which saved his life; and many ridiculous things were entered into... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 213-214)

What kinds of "ridiculous things?"

The records of early Mormonism are replete with accounts of activity from the spirit world. According to John Whitmer, who was the official Church Historian in Joseph Smith's time, some converts to the new religion would "act like an Indian in the act of scalping," or would "slide or scoot on the floor with the rapidity of a serpent...."(46) During the ordination ceremony of Harvey Whitlock as a high priest in 1831, he was seen to have "turned as black as Lyman was white," his fingers "were set like claws," and, unable to speak, he went about the room with eyes "as the shape of oval Os...."(47) On another occasion, one man, who weighed over 200 pounds, was thrown through the air by an unseen force, and another "began screaming like a panther...."(48) 46. John Whitmer, John Whitmer's History (Salt Lake City, Utah: Modern Microfilm Company, n.d.), Chapter Six. 47. Max H. Parkin, Conflict at Kirtland: A Study of the Nature and Causes of External and Internal Conflict of the Mormons in Ohio Between 1830 and 1838 (Salt Lake City: Max Parkin, 1966), pages 79-80. 48. Parkin, ibid. Source:

GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism

Now did these "spirits" leave Mormons alone after this jumpstart? Not on your life:

"Soon after the Gospel was established in Kirtland...many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild, enthusiastic notions were entertained; men ran out doors under the influence of this spirit, and some of them got upon the stumps of trees and shouted, and all kinds of extravagances were entered into by them; one man pursued a ball that he said he saw flying in the air, until he came to a precipice, when he jumped into the top of a tree, which saved his life; and many ridiculous things were entered into... (Joseph Smith pp. 213-214)

26 posted on 07/04/2013 12:37:52 PM PDT by Colofornian (West went South)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion
If, however, all you wish to read are faithbuilding items; then you may peruse our lamented PD's list of Approved Mormon Sources:

I miss ol' PD!

HE was about useless when it came to defending his faith; but at LEAST he had a bunch of links that showed interested people where to find the MILK of MORMONism...


Here; in his memory; is The LIST:

http://www.lds.org
http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com


27 posted on 07/04/2013 12:39:01 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: reaganaut

Ghosts... ...or the guests?


28 posted on 07/04/2013 12:40:18 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Kip Russell

Didn’t get very deep into theology; did ya...


29 posted on 07/04/2013 12:40:53 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: JustTheTruth; Greetings_Puny_Humans; All
I am still waiting for anything to remotely support the “daily reference” assertion. Crickets chirping on that one?

So, aside from your lack of basic reading skills...allow me to also explain why I even pointed out that Mormons (both leaders and grassroots Mormons TOGETHER) DAILY REFERENCE Wilford Woodruff himself -- even when they do so indirectly?

I mentioned it to show that Mormons don't deem Wilford Woodruff as simply some obscure NOBODY from yesteryear.

IOW, Mormons today -- BOTH leaders AND grassroots Mormons -- cite Woodruff authoritatively as a SOMEBODY...a Mormon AUTHORITY who exercised the sheer power to change the entire Mormon culture from institutional polygamy to institutional monogamy.

30 posted on 07/04/2013 12:42:20 PM PDT by Colofornian (West went South)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: JustTheTruth
It is too bad, that on this day of celebration of the founding of our Country; True Blue, TR carrying members of Mormonism are NOT eating any fine BBQd ribs from the backyard grill.


 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 89
 
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
 
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
 
  1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
  3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.
  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
  5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
  7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
  8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.
  12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
  14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
  15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
  16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
  19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
  20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.



31 posted on 07/04/2013 12:43:07 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: reaganaut; Utah Binger; All
LOL, have to lock up the Vodka from the ghosts.

Yeah. You just never know about those spirits.

(I've heard it said they like to HANGover AROUND)

32 posted on 07/04/2013 12:43:50 PM PDT by Colofornian (West went South)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Othniel; All

“I can’t remember. It’s been a lifetime since I read it.). Then, further on, it say Isaias appears, and everyone is amazed, except that Isaias is the greek form of Isaiah,”


You know, this is actually a mistake I’ve seen Mormons make in a debate. A Mormon was making some absurd claim (I’ve forgotten the details), and during the process got Isaiah and Esaias confused as two different people. When I pointed out that Esaias is just Isaiah, he wouldn’t believe me. I even showed him proof, and he would not believe me that Isaiah and Esaias were actually the same person. I thought he was just illiterate in the Bible, being a Mormon, but now you make me think that they’re probably taught that there is a Prophet named Isaiah and a Prophet named Esaias who are separate people.


33 posted on 07/04/2013 12:44:32 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

Mormonism is based on feelings, maintained by distortions of history, Scripture and fact, propped up by rituals from Masonism that do not appear in mormonic verses, coerced by fear and ended when The Biblical Lord Jesus Christ intervenes to open the eyes of those who seek truth.

Thank God HE is Faithful!


34 posted on 07/04/2013 12:44:53 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( “The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.” - Tacitus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
IOW, Mormons today -- BOTH leaders AND grassroots Mormons -- cite Woodruff authoritatively as a SOMEBODY...a Mormon AUTHORITY who exercised the sheer power to change the entire Mormon culture from institutional polygamy to institutional monogamy.

So far so good; until a Living Prophet® decides to countermand something that WW taught or believed.

35 posted on 07/04/2013 12:45:28 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Elsie; reaganaut
Ghosts... ...or the guests?

Management...and the lapsed Mormons.

36 posted on 07/04/2013 12:59:43 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Elsie; All
Me: ...a Mormon AUTHORITY who exercised the sheer power to change the entire Mormon culture from institutional polygamy to institutional monogamy.

So far so good; until a Living Prophet® decides to countermand something that WW taught or believed. [Elsie]

True...As Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson said...a "living prophet" trumps the dead ones...hence...Lds show their true colors not only to readily dismissing the Bible by whim of a current "prophet" -- but even their own add-on "scriptures."

That's why when BYU prof - author Bob Millet defines the Lds standard works as a "standard" to measure all doctrine...that's all a bunch of crock & hooey...

Why? Exactly because of what Elz mentions here: The "standard" becomes, in Mormonism, ANYTHING -- and I mean ANYTHING that the current "living Mormon 'prophet'" declares!

Hence...Elz' comment reminds me of a 1960s survey of Mormons about how many would jump back into polygamy if the Mormon "prophet" told them to do it:

"Another survey taken in the 1960s found that not only do contemporary church members overwhelmingly disapprove of polygamy but only two in five said they would enter the principle if commanded by the prophets." [B. Carmon Hardy, Solemn Covenant, University of Illinois Press, p. 339, citing survey published in 1963 by John R. Christiansen, "Contemporary Mormons' Attitudes Toward Polygamous Practices," Journal of Marriage and Family 25 (May 1963): pp. 167-170)].

Now I don't know about you -- but 40% who said "they would enter the principle if commanded by the prophets" in 1963 is pretty high!

Imagine that, everybody!

2 of 5 of your Mormon neighbors would expand their bedrooms in their homes come the edict from the Mormon "prophet"...

Of the other 3 of 5 of your Mormon neighbors, 2 of them are probably "jack Mormons" and don't pay attention much to what the "living prophet" says, anymore...

The other 20% are households ruled by a wife who would put a "No Trespassing" sign on their bedroom door (or additional husbandly bedroom doors in their home)

37 posted on 07/04/2013 1:00:36 PM PDT by Colofornian (West went South)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; Othniel; All
You know, this is actually a mistake I’ve seen Mormons make in a debate. A Mormon was making some absurd claim (I’ve forgotten the details), and during the process got Isaiah and Esaias confused as two different people. When I pointed out that Esaias is just Isaiah, he wouldn’t believe me. I even showed him proof, and he would not believe me that Isaiah and Esaias were actually the same person. I thought he was just illiterate in the Bible, being a Mormon, but now you make me think that they’re probably taught that there is a Prophet named Isaiah and a Prophet named Esaias who are separate people.

Well I know that Joseph Smith didn't know that "Esias" is simply a Greek form of "Elijah" -- and therefore in Doctrine & Covenants mistakenly treats them as two different people.

38 posted on 07/04/2013 1:09:06 PM PDT by Colofornian (West went South)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39; All
....obviously "choice spirits" is defined by mormons to point out the superiority of mormonism over all Christian religions and the "speshulness" of its members.

I read a book by a former Lds "prophet" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., Religious Truths Defined ... 1959). On page 79, he claims that "pre-mortal spirits are graded."

Hence Mormon leaders try to convey that...
...some pre-existence existed (tho we can't remember it);
...some such spirits there were more "valiant" than others;
...these spirits were "graded";
...and then you get heads of Mormon women's auxiliaries (Mrs. Neill Marriott) -- promoted by the very top etchelon of SLC via its worldwide June 23 broadcast...that "choice" spirits existed in this pre-existence...
...and, of course, these best spirits "landed" in Mormondom on earth.

It's a "neat circle" they've invented that reinforces itself.

It conveys: "Hey, we're great because some spirits were greater in the pre-existence. And the Mormon god of the Church of Mormon picked out those greater spirits to be in Mormon families. And that's just the way it is. (Even tho we can't remember ANY of it)"

Mormon elitism at its finest!

39 posted on 07/04/2013 1:24:00 PM PDT by Colofornian (West went South)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

“Well I know that Joseph Smith didn’t know that “Esias” is simply a Greek form of “Elijah” — and therefore in Doctrine & Covenants mistakenly treats them as two different people.”


Now that you mention it, I remember the details now. His mistake (the Mormon I mentioned) wasn’t with Esaias and Isaiah, though I can see him making the same mistake since that’s how it’s spelled in the New Testament (and Smith’s way of doing theology seemed to be rather random). It was with Elias and Elijah. If I remember correctly, his argument was that Joseph Smith was Elijah all along, who was to come before the coming of Jesus Christ. When I replied that this was fulfilled by John the Baptist. He told me that John the Baptist was Elias, a different person. What a poor fellow! But it was an argument I only ever heard once, after many many debates with LDS.


40 posted on 07/04/2013 1:28:25 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Elsie
Didn’t get very deep into theology; did ya...

Well, it's not as if the tour guide started speaking of golden plates and the angel Moroni...

I was simply contrasting my experience with that of the previous poster who gets a "very uneasy feeling" of "perfumed emptiness" when he visits a Mormon church. I didn't feel any different at a Mormon church then when I visited any other church, be it Presbyterian, a synagogue, or the Sistine Chapel.

(although in all fairness, I did find the Sistine Chapel very impressive!)

41 posted on 07/04/2013 2:35:13 PM PDT by Kip Russell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: reaganaut

A lost of Irony with a Mormon choosing that as a screen name...


42 posted on 07/04/2013 2:40:27 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

No such thing as ghosts.

They’re demons. Any apparitions are.


43 posted on 07/04/2013 5:52:50 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JustTheTruth

Really? Huh my mormon family talk about this “event”
It is written about in lds litature, are you sure you’ve never heard this story?


44 posted on 07/04/2013 6:37:13 PM PDT by svcw (Stand or die)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: JustTheTruth

Hahahahaha So a link is provided to official lds source and you apparently reject it.


45 posted on 07/04/2013 6:43:24 PM PDT by svcw (Stand or die)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: JustTheTruth
I am LDS, too. This is just ridiculous nonsensical gobbledygook posted to try to further some silly agendas. Ignore it and get on with our lives trying to make a difference in this upside down world. CTR! Meanwhile, I attended a rally today to protest the NSA. A great Fourth of July event!
46 posted on 07/04/2013 8:26:45 PM PDT by District13 (I miss my country!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: JustTheTruth; svcw; District13; metmom; All
I am in my 50’s and have been actively involved in the LDS church for a lifetime, living in multiple states, and I have never, ever heard a church leader reference this, even once.

SVCW is right.

Here I give a link to Lds.org official curricula (account #4);
+ a link to official BYU curricula (account #1)
+ the Mormon Journal of Discourses...

And yet, the question is: How much other embarrassing historical stuff has your leadership kept from you?

District13 calls this Mormon official curricula stuff about dead spirits appearing to Mormon leaders "ridiculous nonsensical gobbledygook"...and it all really is...unless, of course, it is as Metmom says...demonic agents appearing to Mormon leaders disguised as diseased spirits...THEN we're talkin' 'bout really serious stuff!

47 posted on 07/04/2013 11:37:50 PM PDT by Colofornian (West went South)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: District13; svcw; All
What do you think about this one, Sandy?

Is it true that Avenal, CA is haunted?

48 posted on 07/04/2013 11:40:36 PM PDT by Colofornian (West went South)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

Give it up.

I’d be inclined to recommend that you consider finding an obsession other than straining at every historical gnat you think you can detect through your relentless and incessant searching and fault finding; a pattern of living unlikely to achieve a state of happiness, contentment and peace, IMHO.

Just sayin’

I won’t be looking back at this string, however, because I have a life to live, focused on better and more fulfilling things to do other than to engage in such pointless debate.


49 posted on 07/05/2013 4:26:05 AM PDT by JustTheTruth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Kip Russell

I understand now.


50 posted on 07/05/2013 4:58:43 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-126 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson