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Pope Francis meets with Scioli, urges him to 'fight against wild capitalism'
Buenos Aires Herald ^ | Thursday, July 4, 2013 | none given

Posted on 07/06/2013 12:47:03 PM PDT by Celtic Cross

The new Pope had a meeting today with Buenos Aires governor Daniel Scioli, at the Santa Marta residence in the Vatican City.

“We should fight against wild capitalism and confront social injustice”, expressed the official in a press release.

(Excerpt) Read more at buenosairesherald.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: argentina; buenosaires; capitalism; catholic; danielscioli; popefrancis; romancatholicism

1 posted on 07/06/2013 12:47:03 PM PDT by Celtic Cross
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To: Celtic Cross; RoosterRedux; stfassisi; goodwithagun; deadrock; RetiredTexasVet; plain talk; ...
It appears that Pope Francis is not the one who called for a fight against "wild capitalism," but rather Buenos Aires governor Daniel Scioli.

“We should fight against wild capitalism and confront social injustice”, expressed the official in a press release."

The official, I would presume, is not the pope but the governor. wildly poor journalism run amok. IF anyone has another source confirming who exactly made the statement, I would strongly urge you to post it to this thread to clear this up one way or another.

2 posted on 07/06/2013 12:47:37 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (The brain is the weapon; everything else is just accessories. --FReeper Joe Brower)
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To: Celtic Cross

Why not... socialism is working so well in Argentina.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-05/no-edible-ipads-here-cost-argentina-bread-doubles-wheatflour-prices-frozen


3 posted on 07/06/2013 12:51:05 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: Celtic Cross

WTF is ‘wild capitalism’? I tell ya’, this Pope is turning into a lib whackjob every month.


4 posted on 07/06/2013 12:53:35 PM PDT by max americana (fired liberals in our company after the election, & laughed while they cried (true story))
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To: Celtic Cross

5 posted on 07/06/2013 12:55:17 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Harriet Meiers is looking pretty good right about now.)
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To: max americana

If he actually made the statement — it seems from the article that the governor of BA said it. But I can’t tell because the writing is so terrible.


6 posted on 07/06/2013 12:55:47 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (The brain is the weapon; everything else is just accessories. --FReeper Joe Brower)
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To: Celtic Cross
I think “wild capitalism” is another word for fascism. We are witnessing wild capitalism in the US, where the government supports and promotes green energy companies owned by if friends.
7 posted on 07/06/2013 12:57:07 PM PDT by Cowboy Bob (Democrats: Robbing Peter to buy Paul's vote.)
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To: Celtic Cross

“Pope Francis meets with Scioli, urges him to ‘fight against wild capitalism”

Posted yesterday, same source.


8 posted on 07/06/2013 12:57:21 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: max americana

But who was it who said “fight wild capitalism”? Pope Francis or Daniel Scioli? Surely that matters?


9 posted on 07/06/2013 1:00:02 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (USCCB Delenda Est.)
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To: count-your-change

I know, see comment #2.


10 posted on 07/06/2013 1:00:48 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (The brain is the weapon; everything else is just accessories. --FReeper Joe Brower)
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To: Celtic Cross

I posted on the original thread of my curiosity as to the context of the quote, or even if it was the whole quote. We finally have a new bishop (who seems to be pretty good so far) after ours was transferred to Joliet, Illinois. Bishop Conlon is a commie and we’re glad to be rid of him, so I’m a bit frustrated when it appears that the Pope is making these comments. I’d love to know more about this comment and conversation if anybody has anything to add!


11 posted on 07/06/2013 1:01:28 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: Celtic Cross
Thanx ... I was just re-reading that to see WHOM it was that spoke the words.
12 posted on 07/06/2013 1:11:11 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof, but they're true.)
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To: Celtic Cross

There’s a lot more “social injustice” under Progressivism/Socialim/Communism than under “wild capitalism,” if you consider the democide of a few hundred million people to be “social injustice.”


13 posted on 07/06/2013 1:14:51 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Who could have known that one day professional wrestling would be less fake than professional news?)
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To: Cowboy Bob

I think you’re right...”wild capitalism” is not “capitalism”.

True capitalism is an outgrowth of the Judeo-Christian ethic.

Remember, the forces of evil pervert EVERY good thing...


14 posted on 07/06/2013 1:26:00 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: SoFloFreeper

But the question is — what did the person who made this statement (either the pope or the governor of BA) mean by his statement?


15 posted on 07/06/2013 1:28:28 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (The brain is the weapon; everything else is just accessories. --FReeper Joe Brower)
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To: Celtic Cross

Does Bergoglio affirm the “universal ownership of all goods?”

“Papal Promotion of Collective Ownership and Theft” (By Richard Bennett, former Irish priest)

http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/sorted/01_On_Catholicism/Papal_Economics.pdf

From the link:

“Another Vatican Council II document upholds the same principle of the “universal ownership of all goods” and emphatically teaches, “If one is in extreme necessity, he has the right to procure for himself what he needs out of the riches of others.”

Citation:
“Gaudium et Spes”, Vatican Council II: The Conciliar and Post Conciliar Documents, Para. 69.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651207_gaudium-et-spes_en.html


16 posted on 07/06/2013 1:40:57 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: Celtic Cross

What in the H is “wild capitalism”? Capitalism?

This Pope and his minions are starting to give me the heebee-jeebees.


17 posted on 07/06/2013 1:41:35 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: Cowboy Bob

If so, it is a poor name for fascism.


18 posted on 07/06/2013 2:11:46 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Exactly.


19 posted on 07/06/2013 2:12:06 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: goodwithagun

Post number 7 explains it, “wild capitalism”. There is another term for it, “crony capitalism”.


20 posted on 07/06/2013 2:50:38 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: max americana

max Americana:

Maybe Enron, WorldCom, HealthSouth, The Houston Office of Arthur Andersen looking the other way when auditing Enron because Enron paid significant Fees of various accounting services. Wild Capitalism is people in top levels of Corporations putting their own selfish interest above the good of the Corporation and behaving in Unethical, and in many cases illegal ways to make money and taking entire corporations down destroying thousands of jobs among the ethical folks in said corporations.

Capitalism works when everyone plays by the rules of law and their is no information asymmetry between management, shareholders, bondholders and potential new investors, etc.


21 posted on 07/06/2013 3:34:11 PM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: SoFloFreeper
"Remember, the forces of evil pervert EVERY good thing..."

You're right.

Given the fact that there was a Papal Encyclical against Socialism way back in 1878, that Pope Francis didn't go along with the "Liberation" theology crowd, and that Socialism by definition contradicts several Doctrines of the Church as well as several other Papal Encyclicals, I think it's clear that when a Catholic uses the term "wild capitalism" they're talking about excesses, not all Capitalism or Capitalists in general. They're talking about the sort of capitalism that dope dealers and child pornographers are practicing, Capitalism as practiced by predators of all sorts with no regard for the consequences of their economic actions.

While those may be extreme examples, is it really all that difficult to understand that there are a lot of things done in the name of capitalism that contradict Christian values? NO, it isn't at all difficult to understand, in fact, it's really simple. Saying, "the market made me do it" isn't an acceptable excuse for abusing your fellow man by ignoring the consequences of your actions any more than "class struggle" is.

It's very hard to believe that folks who insist the Holy Spirit guides them individually to an unerring understanding of Scripture can't figure out what "wild capitalism" means in light of Scripture and nearly twenty centuries of Catholic teaching.

Of course, there are dedicated anti-Christ propagandists who "fail to understand" whatever they figure they can use to further their agenda of fostering squabbles among Christian and who don't care about the Holy Spirit to begin with. They're the sort who only care what they can claim it means just like some wolves disguised as sheep within the Church only care what they can claim something means.

Whether playing the role of an anti-Catholic or playing the role of a faithful Catholic, folks who strive to distort fairly obvious meanings into something that fits their agenda are children of the father of lies.

22 posted on 07/06/2013 3:42:51 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: goodwithagun
I’m a bit frustrated when it appears that the Pope is making these comments

This Pope Francis is an economic leftist. Period. Conservative Catholics, here and elsewhere, keep trying to make excuses for his comments - but they aren't fooling anyone. This Pope has a lot of good qualities, but he is a disaster when it comes to economic/fiscal issues. Pope Frances isn't an outright communist or anything that radical (he seems to have distanced himself from liberation theology), but he's a big government, social welfare state supporting liberal. His economic views are fairly typical of South American Jesuits - and that's not a good thing.

23 posted on 07/06/2013 3:47:02 PM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: max americana

Wouldn’t collection plates be fuller in a good economy?


24 posted on 07/06/2013 4:34:15 PM PDT by Catmom
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To: onedoug
Is Buenos Aires governor Daniel Scioli a "minion" of Pope Francis?

It bugs me when people make judgments with scant evidence, wit5h no evidence, or against evidence.

25 posted on 07/06/2013 5:24:00 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("OK, youse guys, pair off by threes." - Yogi Berra)
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To: Longbow1969; goodwithagun; dangus
Longbow, if you're going to make a sweeping assessment like "This Pope Francis is an economic Leftist, period" you're going to have to substantiate it with evidence. I value value evidence, but I don't have time for fact-free arguments. Here is what Pope Francis actually said:

" The unjust distribution of goods persists, creating a situation of social sin that cries out to Heaven and limits the possibilities of a fuller life for so many of our brothers. The challenge to eradicate poverty cannot be truthfully met as long as the poor continue to be dependents of the State. The government and other organizations should instead work to create the social conditions that will promote and protect the rights of the poor and enable them to be the builders of their own future. To those who are now promising to fix all your problems, I say, ‘Go and fix yourself.’ Have a change of heart. Get to confession, before you need it even more! The current crisis will not be improved by magicians from outside the country and nor will [improvement] come from the golden mouth of our politicians, so accustomed to making incredible promises. " Fuller quotes at article here (LINK)

As FReeper dangus said, "Sounds like Ronald Reagan's speech-writers found a new employer, huh?

26 posted on 07/06/2013 5:36:24 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("OK, youse guys, pair off by threes." - Yogi Berra)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Apparently the official is telling what he claims the Pope told him. Whether it's accurate or slanted to promote the official's own position I don't know. Here's an account in an Argentine newspaper: "La reunión duró unos 50 minutos y se desarrolló, según Scioli, en un ambiente de cordialidad y cercanía, y durante la misma el Papa argentino destacó que América Latina ha trabajado y avanzado “mucho” para evitar las consecuencias del “capitalismo salvaje” y las “injusticias sociales”.

Rough translation: The meeting lasted around 50 minutes, and took place, according to Scioli, in an atmosphere of cordiality and intimacy, during which the Argentine Pope emphasized that Latin America had made "much" progress in avoiding the consequencies of "wild capitalism" [I think that means unregulated capitalism] and "social injustices".

27 posted on 07/06/2013 6:49:23 PM PDT by GJones2 (Who said "wild capitalism"?)
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To: Celtic Cross

Oh boy.


28 posted on 07/06/2013 7:51:27 PM PDT by gotribe (Limit The Government's Right To Bear Arms)
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To: Celtic Cross

Rarely if ever does the media report things correctly regarding statements of the Pope.

More than likely this ‘wild capitalism’ means something similar to ‘greed’.

Remember, all Christian teaching agrees this is a sin called: ‘avarice’.


29 posted on 07/06/2013 9:16:41 PM PDT by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (Go Egypt on 0bama)
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To: Celtic Cross

I think one could consider that things like debt slavery and horrible sweatshop conditions are “wild capitalism”. Capitalism is not completely unbridled for good reason— because some people start treating others worse than the machinery, and will do so when they can get away with it. That’s one of the reasons why faith and morality have a roll in the public square, counteracting through culture and the rule of law, the tendency toward cruelty that powerful people can have.

Pope Francis doesn’t like greedy capitalists, but at least he also doesn’t like corrupt governmental leaders, either.


30 posted on 07/06/2013 9:23:14 PM PDT by married21
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To: Celtic Cross

I’m hoping you are correct - not a Catholic, but I really like this guy. Past popes have gotten diverted from the task at hand and made global warming and other off the wall remarks which is not the place of any Church - especially if one believes that God has a plan and it doesn’t say we ruin the earth so we can’t live here any more. The Church should put positive influence on society to hopefully either effect some positive changes, or at the very least reach some new souls for the Kingdom which follows as we get introduced to Eternity vs. the tiny blip we now exist in.


31 posted on 07/07/2013 4:04:57 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: Rashputin

I think you are correct here. Granted, we don’t know all that was said, but I don’t get the sense that there is anything wrong here.

Besides, I’m much more interested in things that the Pope might say with respect to faith and morals, not economics.


32 posted on 07/07/2013 5:27:43 AM PDT by piusv
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To: Celtic Cross

I doubt that it matters who said it, if there were any truth to the word wild capitalism, or if there were any true capitalism of any kind the anti God socialists would not be in control of every thing in the world.


33 posted on 07/07/2013 6:43:09 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Celtic Cross
It appears that Pope Francis is not the one who called for a fight against "wild capitalism," but rather Buenos Aires governor Daniel Scioli.

Ping for later

34 posted on 07/07/2013 8:49:31 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thanks for including me. You’ll notice the tagline I’ve been using, from Pope Francis.

Pope Francis is anti-materialistic. Economic leftists see all problems in strictly materialistic terms; they hate the rich for being wealthy, but because they want the wealth, not because they are anything but purely materialists.


35 posted on 07/07/2013 4:33:48 PM PDT by dangus (Poverty cannot be eradicated as long as the poor remain dependent on the state - Pope Francis)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Longbow1969; goodwithagun; dangus

Americans conflate Capitalism with free markets. China is capitalist, but anything but free. The leftists in America have become Chinese-style Capitalists. Pope Francis is anti-materialist, but also opposed to government dependency.


36 posted on 07/07/2013 4:36:15 PM PDT by dangus (Poverty cannot be eradicated as long as the poor remain dependent on the state - Pope Francis)
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To: dangus

Thanks for this -— a good distinction, leading maybe to some good discussion!


37 posted on 07/07/2013 6:23:04 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ( My short term memory isn't what it used to be. Also, my short term memory isn't what it used to be.)
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