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Lds prophecies: Adam returnin' to Missouri? Plus, y'all recall Oliver Granger, right? [Vanity]
Colofornian | July 7, 2013 | Colofornian

Posted on 07/07/2013 10:37:51 AM PDT by Colofornian

On the day of July 8, 1838 -- 175 years ago tomorrow -- the original "prophet" of the Church of Mormon, Joseph Smith, made up four "revelations" from the Mormon god:

These are recorded in Doctrine & Covenants (numbers 117, 118, 119, & 120). Let's look at some of the verses in these:

117:12: I say unto you, I remember my servant Oliver Granger; behold, verily I say unto him that his name shall be had in sacred remembrance from generation to generation, forever and ever, saith the Lord."

Of course, you all know Oliver Granger, right? ....Uh, right?

Well, surely, you Mormons do. Right? You hold his name as a household sacred byword. Right? Generation after generation? Yes? No?

Apart from this entry, who remembers Oliver Granger? (And why?)

What? As Oliver Granger obscurity continues, a false prophesy by Smith, then? (Apparently so)

***************************************

Earlier in the chapter, Smith returns to talk about "the mountains of Adam-ondi-Ahman and on the plains of Olaha Shinehah, or the land where Adam dwelt..." (v. 8) [In D&C 116, Adam had unveiled less than two months earlier that "Adam shall come to visit his people" in this place; original reference was in D&C 78]

Per Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie: "Adam-ondi-Ahman -- meaning the place or land of God where Adam dwelt -- is at a place called Spring Hill, Davies County, Missouri. This site is named by the Lord 'Adam-ondi-Ahman...'" (The Millennial Messiah, pp. 587-588)

LDS Church "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr. stated that before the Second Coming, Adam will convene another meeting at that place to turn the government of the human family officially to Jesus Christ (Source: Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p. 13)

So...Spring Hill, MO...I know that's on the bluffs of a river. Yet Smith talks about "the mountains" of this area, which is now farmland owned by the Mormon church. What "mountains" rise up there?

Per another Lds "apostle" -- Mark E. Petersen, in his book, Adam: Who is He? -- says on p. 15 that Adam lived in Missouri.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: adam; lds; missouri; mormonism; polemicist; polemics; sectarianturmoil
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Well...it's been 175 years...

Enough to measure a few of Joseph Smith's prophecies, right? Or, just take one: Lds "scripture" -- D&C 117:12:

From the article:

I say unto you, I remember my servant Oliver Granger; behold, verily I say unto him that his name shall be had in sacred remembrance from generation to generation, forever and ever, saith the Lord."

Of course, you all know Oliver Granger, right? ....Uh, right?

Well, surely, you Mormons do. Right? You hold his name as a household sacred byword. Right? Generation after generation? Yes? No?

Apart from this entry, who remembers Oliver Granger? (And why?)

What? As Oliver Granger obscurity continues, a false prophesy by Smith, then? (Apparently so)

***************************************

Earlier in the chapter, Smith returns to talk about "the mountains of Adam-ondi-Ahman and on the plains of Olaha Shinehah, or the land where Adam dwelt..." (v. 8) [In D&C 116, Adam had unveiled less than two months earlier that "Adam shall come to visit his people" in this place; original reference was in D&C 78]

LDS Church "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr. stated that before the Second Coming, Adam will convene another meeting at that place to turn the government of the human family officially to Jesus Christ (Source: Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p. 13)

1 posted on 07/07/2013 10:37:51 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
Well...it's been 175 years... Enough to measure a few of Joseph Smith's prophecies, right?

Ping for later

2 posted on 07/07/2013 10:42:52 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Colofornian

I personally cannot imagine anyone being a “morman” after careful analysis.

The dna evidence is against them, the BOM, refutes archeology, and history is a mean thing. I have read the BOM, the DOC, and much history.

If someone running for president believes in these myths, he will not be elected. That is how Romney couldn’t win.


3 posted on 07/07/2013 10:44:17 AM PDT by bobo1 (the KDE plasma desktop is awesome!)
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To: Colofornian

Ping for July, 2213.


4 posted on 07/07/2013 10:46:59 AM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it. Their minds have been stolen.)
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To: Colofornian

The argument is that since he is in the D&C, then by that alone his name is in sacred remembrance.

I’m serious.


5 posted on 07/07/2013 10:50:53 AM PDT by freedomlover
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To: Colofornian
50 wives....in pastels...


6 posted on 07/07/2013 11:01:13 AM PDT by Dallas59 (Q: The worst president in US history?)
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To: Colofornian; Jim Robinson; All; moder_ator
Would you like to be ‘fair and balanced’ and post the past histories of other churches - like, say, the Catholic Church (especially during the inquisition years, including the infamous “Albigensian Crusade” from which the Pope's infamous line “Kill them all, God will know his own” echoes down the halls of history - the ‘witch burnings’ churches of the 1600’s in America - etc.

http://www.cathar.info/120502_arnaud.htm

Is FR really the place for such prejudiced diatribes? I would hope FR is above such selective hatred?

No?

7 posted on 07/07/2013 11:29:29 AM PDT by maine-iac7 (Christian is as Christian does - by their fruits)
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To: Colofornian; greyfoxx39; colorcountry; ejonesie22; Elsie; Godzilla; Holly_P; MHGinTN; narses; ...

Well ... it's been 175 years ... [long] enough to measure a few of Joseph Smith's prophecies, right?

Yep ... and here are a few of my favorites ...

A financial empire: A banking institution, who like Aaron's rod shall swallow up all other banks … and grow and flourish and spread from the rivers to the ends of the earth, and survive when all others should be laid in ruins. – Zion’s Watchman, March 24, 1838

Joseph’s revelation concerning the Kirtland Safety Society – a bank that failed within two weeks and triggered the recession of 1837. For years, this was the largest financial fraud (and one of the most blatant ever) in U.S. history.

Missouri will be devastated: … I prophesy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left. – February 1835 – History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 182.

And a few years later, Missouri was indeed wasted.

Polygamy ... for ever: For behold, I reveal unto you a new and everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory – Doctrine & Covenants – Section 132

Mormonism’s god required polygamy – after outlawing it in the Book of Mormon and D&C Section 101. And it was indeed everlasting – until the 1890 Manifesto, or the 1906 Second Manifesto, or the 1923 Prohibition, or whenever.

An eternal place of worship:The Nauvoo House [Temple] shall stand for ever and ever. – Doctrine and Covenants 124:56-60

And indeed it did. Until 1848, when, after Brigham tried to unsuccessfully sell the building to the Jesuits, it burned down.

The Second coming of Christ: … go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, or the coming of the lord, which was nigh even fifty-six years should wind up the scene – Joseph Smith – History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 182 – prophesied on February 14, 1835

On the 14th of Feb. 1835, Joseph Smith uaid [said] that God had revealed to him that the coming of Christ would be within 56 years, which added to 1835 shows that before 1891 and the 14th of Feb. the Savior of the world would make his appearance again upon the earth and the winding up scene take place – Journal of Oliver Huntington, Vol. 2, pp. 128,129.

Sure enough, the Second Coming of Christ occurred on Valentine’s Day, 1891.

Moonmen: The inhabitants of the moon are more of a uniform size than the inhabitants of the earth, being six feet in height. They dress very much like the Quaker style and are quite general in style or fashion of dress. They live to be very old; coming generally near a thousand years. This is the description of them as given by Joseph Smith the Seer. – Journal of Oliver B. Huntington, Vol 2, p 166.

It’s not Joseph’s fault NASA missed these people in 1969. They really are still up there. Somewhere. Really.

The throne of God: Abraham saw, by the Urim and Thummim, the huge star Kolob, "that it was nearest to the throne of God" – Abraham 3:2; that Kolob is the first of all of God’s creations and is the greatest (largest in mass) of all the stars – Abraham 3:16; and that it "governs all the stars which belong to the same order as that upon which thou [Abraham] standest [earth]" – Abraham 3:3. The scriptures also establish that God’s throne is in the "midst [center] of all things" – Doctrine and Covenants 88:13.

Somewhere, over the rainbow … in Sector 1328 of the Constellation Cancer, or in the center of the Milky Way Galaxy in the Constellation Sagittarius, or near the Star Sirius in the Constellation Canis Major, or in the center of the Andromeda Galaxy, or …wherever.

Global Warming: Those who are in the north countries... shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence. – Doctrine and Covenants 133:26.

Smith's uncanny prediction of Global Warming resulting from hydrocarbons taken by smiting the rocks has been confirmed by no less of an authority than the Nobel Laureate Al Gore.

Destruction of the US government: Joseph Smith prophesies "by virtue of the holy priesthood... and in the name of the Lord" that if Congress or the United States will not redress the wrongs which the Mormons suffered in Missouri, and grant them protection, "the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted," they shall be "broken up as a government" and there will be nothing left of them. – Joseph Smith – History of the Church 5:394

Obama may yet fulfill this one!

A vain prophet will be thrown down: For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him. – Joseph Smith – Doctrine and Covenants 3:4

Joseph got one right! But for some reason, the Mormon Church skips over this prophesy. Anybody out there know why?

8 posted on 07/07/2013 11:45:51 AM PDT by Zakeet (If idiots could fly, Washington would be an airport)
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To: maine-iac7

People here like to have debates with accurate information. Mormons are great people; but the religion they practice is one that is entirely made up by man.

Mormonism doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

You brought out abuses that were practiced by some Christians in the past. Those abuses do not invalidate Christianity. But rather those abuses show why man needs to find and follow the word of God, so those abuses are not repeated.


9 posted on 07/07/2013 11:46:00 AM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (Just wanted to say I hope you great NSA folks are enjoying my posts here.)
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To: Dallas59

Are those Warren Jeff’s wives?


10 posted on 07/07/2013 11:46:13 AM PDT by Nevadan
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To: Nevadan

Some kind of LDS group.


11 posted on 07/07/2013 11:53:07 AM PDT by Dallas59 (Q: The worst president in US history?)
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To: 1010RD

Here’s your sign, apologist.


12 posted on 07/07/2013 11:58:53 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: maine-iac7
You notice no reference to the mainstream “Christian “ churches that are recognizing the gay rights agenda. Openly gay congregations. All the vitriol is reserved for Mormons!!!
13 posted on 07/07/2013 12:13:29 PM PDT by ontap (***)
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To: ontap

Parade your victimhood somewhere else. If you’re not aware that the Episcopalian embrace of the degeneracy (for instance) has been attacked thoroughly at FR, then you might want to do a little research before whining your victimhood. But you are reinforcing the notion that Mormonism apologists are trained in deception techniques (read, not so subtle lying).


14 posted on 07/07/2013 12:40:34 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN
First off moron I'm not a Mormon....secondly with millions of Muslims beheading Christians you chose to berate Mormons . I suspect cowardice on your part might be the reason....after all not many Mormons are going to cut your throat if you criticize them!!! I don't consider hateful people to be representative of the son of God.
15 posted on 07/07/2013 12:50:24 PM PDT by ontap (***)
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To: ontap
....after all not many Mormons are going to cut your throat if you criticize them!!!

Not any more, anyway. FR Keyword: Blood Atonement

16 posted on 07/07/2013 12:56:51 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Colofornian

I don’t know much about LDS theology. I believe that a lot of their scriptures are challenged by people more educated than me.

But,,, if “by their fruits you shall know them”, then something works for them. I have lived in Utah among them. I have seen the clean homes, parks, retail areas, no graffiti, respectful young people, and especially helpful and respectful clerks in store toward elderly people. I have seen their patriotism and social stability up close. I’m not even talking about their SHTF preparedness.

So what does their religion contribute to this stability and quality of life? If their theology is flawed, what are they doing better than all of the rest of us?


17 posted on 07/07/2013 1:02:51 PM PDT by CPO retired
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To: bobo1
"I personally cannot imagine anyone being a “morman” after careful analysis."

I can't either. It should be clear that Joseph Smith was no prophet.

Moses was confirmed as a prophet by amazing miracles. And Moses laid down the test of a prophet and prophesized about the prophets to come after him. Those prophets themselves were also confirmed by miracles, though none as extensive as Moses. Until Jesus came and Jesus was confirmed by many miracles as well as hundreds of prophecies made by the prophets before him.

The Apostle John prophesied about two prophets during the end time. But no prophet ever mentioned Joseph Smith. A gap so glaring that Joseph Smith actually tried to rewrite the Bible to include himself in the Books of Moses to try to gains some legitimacy.

Where are the miracles confirming Joseph Smith? Instead of confirmation what you see is an abuse of power ala Mohammad style. You see the marrying of many women including relationships expressly forbidden by the Old Testament such as marrying sisters, and marrying both a child and her mother. And to justify this behavior he has to contradict the clear words of Jesus who said their was no marriage in Heaven.

18 posted on 07/07/2013 1:38:28 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: CPO retired
But,,, if “by their fruits you shall know them”, then something works for them. I have lived in Utah among them. I have seen the clean homes, parks, retail areas, no graffiti, respectful young people, and especially helpful and respectful clerks in store toward elderly people. I have seen their patriotism and social stability up close. I’m not even talking about their SHTF preparedness.

You should not take one scripture alone, out of context with the rest of the gospel and use it to confuse the issue and try to prove the righteousness, according to the Bible no less of a cult.

If you are going to use the Bible as a reference point for measuring the correctness of a Theology, use ALL of the bible, not just the part you think will justify your position.
19 posted on 07/07/2013 1:50:52 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: bobo1
I personally cannot imagine anyone being a “morman” after careful analysis.

That's the problem, they don't analyze the history of the Mormon church, I hope it's not because they don't care!
20 posted on 07/07/2013 1:59:05 PM PDT by ForAmerica (Texas Conservative Christian *born again believer in Jesus Christ* Black Man!)
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To: maine-iac7

Or what about Mountain Meadows?


21 posted on 07/07/2013 2:01:06 PM PDT by ForAmerica (Texas Conservative Christian *born again believer in Jesus Christ* Black Man!)
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To: Colofornian

It’s the names in the BoM that slay me! I just discovered the story of the beheading of “Shiz”....priceless!

From where Army cooks derived their messhall classic, “Shiz on a shingle”?

;^)


22 posted on 07/07/2013 2:24:50 PM PDT by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: maine-iac7; Jim Robinson

“Would you like to be ‘fair and balanced’ and post the past histories of other churches - like, say, the Catholic Church (especially during the inquisition years, including the infamous “Albigensian Crusade” from which the Pope’s infamous line “Kill them all, God will know his own” echoes down the halls of history - the ‘witch burnings’ churches of the 1600’s in America - etc.”


What would any of that history have to do with false prophecy from the guy who founded your religion? The scripture is explicit that if a prophecy fails to come to pass, that the man who spoke them is not a Prophet.

Deu_18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

How do you compare people doing bad stuff... to the founder of your religion speaking false prophecy?


23 posted on 07/07/2013 2:25:20 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: ontap

“You notice no reference to the mainstream “Christian “ churches that are recognizing the gay rights agenda. Openly gay congregations. All the vitriol is reserved for Mormons!!!”


What nonsense is that? I see threads ALL THE TIME decrying the gay agenda which has infiltrated many formerly good churches.


24 posted on 07/07/2013 2:26:45 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Alex Murphy

That was a good one and true!


25 posted on 07/07/2013 2:30:07 PM PDT by ForAmerica (Texas Conservative Christian *born again believer in Jesus Christ* Black Man!)
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To: CPO retired
I don’t know much about LDS theology. I believe that a lot of their scriptures are challenged by people more educated than me.

But,,, if “by their fruits you shall know them”, then something works for them. I have lived in Utah among them. I have seen the clean homes, parks, retail areas, no graffiti, respectful young people, and especially helpful and respectful clerks in store toward elderly people. I have seen their patriotism and social stability up close. I’m not even talking about their SHTF preparedness.

So what does their religion contribute to this stability and quality of life? If their theology is flawed, what are they doing better than all of the rest of us?


I'll ask you the same question that I ask them, have you repented for your righteous deeds? Isa. 64:6!
26 posted on 07/07/2013 2:34:30 PM PDT by ForAmerica (Texas Conservative Christian *born again believer in Jesus Christ* Black Man!)
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To: ForAmerica

You are correct!


27 posted on 07/07/2013 2:40:19 PM PDT by bobo1 (the KDE plasma desktop is awesome!)
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To: Colofornian
Adam was the First Redneck. As I understand it, he lived in the Trailer Park of Eden with his wife Chavvah-Mae. They were kicked out for playing Hasil Adkins records at full blast after candle-lighting time.

This is why all the other religions don't believe in him. They're ashamed to have such a character in their woodpile, so they replaced him with a primordial microscopic globule (with impeccable taste, manners, and breeding).

So . . . the Trailer Park of Eden was in Missouri, huh? Never thought about that before (believe it or not). I should be ashamed.

Actually, 'Adam HaRi'shon will be resurrected as one of the Seven Shepherds of Israel. But if nobody else wants to acknowledge him, we'll be glad to have him in the Bible Belt.

28 posted on 07/07/2013 3:03:17 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: bobo1; Colofornian

These mormonism threads were not about Romney before he ever ran, nor are they about Romney after he ran. But all the republican CINOs on FR who got their panties in a wad were convinced it was about Romney. Now where are they? And when will FR wise up about these first class impostors of conservatism?


29 posted on 07/07/2013 3:20:00 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo

Shucks, we were contesting mormanism back in the 80’s.


30 posted on 07/07/2013 3:39:04 PM PDT by bobo1 (the KDE plasma desktop is awesome!)
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To: maine-iac7

Don’t deal in hatred. Facts are my friend, however.


31 posted on 07/07/2013 3:40:36 PM PDT by bobo1 (the KDE plasma desktop is awesome!)
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To: Kevmo
These mormonism threads were not about Romney before he ever ran, nor are they about Romney after he ran. But all the republican CINOs on FR who got their panties in a wad were convinced it was about Romney. Now where are they?

LOL good point!

32 posted on 07/07/2013 4:27:01 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: maine-iac7

How exactly is pointing out fact for general consideration the same as witch burning.

Hyperbole much?

Fact Joe Smith is no more a “prophet” than I’m a Pope, ergo anything found via his “vision” is deserving of serious scrutiny. Souls are at stake.

The real hatred would be to do nothing. If my neighbors house is burning down I will point it out.


33 posted on 07/07/2013 4:31:57 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ontap
Some of us can multitask. A lost soul is a lost soul regardless of the method of delivery to the after life.

If you would like to point out some Muslims proselytizing and working around FR please do...

34 posted on 07/07/2013 4:34:31 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: MHGinTN

You called in the stunt Mormon...


35 posted on 07/07/2013 4:35:27 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ontap

You need to get out more...


36 posted on 07/07/2013 4:36:11 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22

False is his sign. I didn’t want him to miss his sign.


37 posted on 07/07/2013 5:56:14 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: ejonesie22

I’ve been out and about for 66 years and have a lot more to concern myself with than Mormons. They’re free to believe what they want as are you and me!!! As Christians we are task to bring people in to the fold and insults and self righteousness does nothing to further that goal!!


38 posted on 07/07/2013 6:02:58 PM PDT by ontap (***)
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To: Alex Murphy

Again I say: ... when will FR wise up about these first class impostors of conservatism?

CINOs have taken over FR.


39 posted on 07/07/2013 6:35:05 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Colofornian

“15 Therefore let no man despise my servant Oliver Granger, but let the blessings of my people be on him forever and ever.”

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I have been lax in my attention to Oliver Granger, a great man.

Regarding Adam Ondi Ahman, how can you say a prophesy is not true just because it hasn’t happened yet?


40 posted on 07/07/2013 7:23:43 PM PDT by District13 (I miss my country!)
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To: ontap

Perhaps you are not a Mormon, but you have one of the characteristics so often displayed by the Mormonism apologists who work Freerepublic: you make false assertions/specious accusations. You’re just the sort to defend them. I don’t think congratulations are in order.


41 posted on 07/07/2013 7:39:12 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: SoConPubbie

I’m not trying to “prove” something. That was merely a quote that fit what I saw there. I don’t buy into much of their doctrines and dogma. I am only trying to find out what part, if any, their religion plays in their social and economic success. Why do they have so much success, patriotism, family integrity and stability? If not their religion, what then? Let’s learn what it is for ALL our benefit. Would we not all gain something from it?


42 posted on 07/07/2013 7:59:21 PM PDT by CPO retired
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To: ForAmerica

I’m sorry, I don’t understand the question “have you repented for your righteous deeds”, especially in the context of the question I posed. Is that the answer to my question?

I was just trying to learn something about what works for them, and if their religion had anything to do with it.


43 posted on 07/07/2013 8:04:45 PM PDT by CPO retired
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To: ontap
Where are the insults?

Everyone is free to believe what they want, however Christians are tasked with contending for and defending the Faith. We are also tasked to look out for our fellow man and lead them away from evil that disguises itself as good and we are to call out false teachers.

All of these things are Biblical, its all there.

As far as “concern levels” sure there maybe more important things, indeed there are for me, but I don’t “score and ignore”. I do not want to sit there and have to tell the Almighty when asked why I did not take an opportunity when I had the time to save a soul “I had better things to do...”

And if goals are important know this, there have been several LDS members who have escaped the cult and found the True Christ right here through these informational threads on FR. A worthy goal indeed...

44 posted on 07/07/2013 8:09:44 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: District13

Easy, the man who said it isn’t a prophet. Simple as that...


45 posted on 07/07/2013 8:21:21 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: CPO retired
Why do they have so much success, patriotism, family integrity and stability? If not their religion, what then? Let’s learn what it is for ALL our benefit. Would we not all gain something from it?

I don't need to learn anything from Mormonism, I already have the Book of Life and the Lord as my Savior. In that same book he quite clearly stated that he would send his Holy Spirit to teach me all thing I need to know.

If I am living according to his rules, according to his Love, why do I need to waste my time with the teachings of a Cult?
46 posted on 07/07/2013 10:04:45 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: CPO retired; SoConPubbie; All
I have lived in Utah among them. I have seen the clean homes, parks, retail areas, no graffiti, respectful young people, and especially helpful and respectful clerks in store toward elderly people. I have seen their patriotism and social stability up close.

Social stability? Take a closer look @ what you describe as "social stability"...and remember that Utah is 60% Lds:

If you go to this post I did a while back, you can see all the original sources for what is below: Sociology of Utah

I provided links to first two headlines below...plus several others [wherever you see "source headline"]:
* Two Studies Find Depression Widespread in Utah
* Utah leads the nation in rates of depression
* And referenced where Utah has the most anti-depressant use, especially in women: Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use. Some point to the pressures of Mormonism, especially for women, to explain the surprising findings. [Source urls: http://www.usu.edu/psycho101/lectures/chp2methods/study.html http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/03/eveningnews/main510918.shtml ]

Other related depression and suicide Utah anecdotes:
* ”Utah, which a 2007 report said had the country's highest rate of nonmedical painkiller abuse.” Source headline: Utah has new prescription for painkiller problem [Original link...click on first link above for linkage to actual article]
And depression is not only a “female” issue in Utah:
* At least at one time, Utah lead the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24: As of 5 years ago: Utah leads the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24...Utah also has the 11th highest suicide rate — 14.3 deaths per 100,000 people — in the nation over all age groups, according to the most recent data from the American Association of Suicidology.” Source headline: Deadly taboo: Youth suicide an epidemic that many in Utah prefer to ignore [Original link -- click on first link above for linkage to actual article]
* ”Utah has the country's highest suicide rate for males between the ages of 14 and 25. That grim statistic is given a name and a troubled family in Carol Lynn Pearson's impassioned ‘Facing East,’ now at the International City Theatre in Long Beach." Source url: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2285528/posts
* ”For more than 10 years, 15- to 34-year-old males in Utah have had suicide rates markedly higher than those seen nationally. In fact, in the early to mid-1990s, suicide was the number one cause of death among 25- to 44-year-old men in the state and the second-leading cause of death among men aged 15 to 24. Source url: http://www.adherents.com/largecom/lds_LowSuicideRate.html

Now, this article actually says being active Lds "helps" in comparing rates. But this and another study I saw actually says when you compare the suicide rates for active Lds, inactive or less-active Lds, and non-Lds, the middle category is by far the highest: I

In addition, per this article –the risk of suicide among males aged 15 to 19 was three times higher among the less active church members than among their active peers, but the rate among the active youth was comparable to the national suicide rate.

So...this article not only says suicide risk is 3x higher among less active Lds than active Lds (among 15-19 yo), but that the suicide rate for active Lds 15-19 yo is no different than the national suicide rate!!!

One point that can be drawn from the above is that Mormonism is no barrier to the suicide rate for teens, and in fact, jeopardizes more teens (the less active ones)!

*******************************

From a 2012 article: ...the gayest city in the U.S. is Salt Lake City, Utah, according to The Advocate, the gay and lesbian newsmagazine...The Advocate used different measures to establish “per capita queerness” — including a city’s number of teams entered in the Gay Softball World Series, gay bookstores, openly gay elected officials and semifinalists in the International Mr. Leather Contest...

Source:

Also:
* Utah leads the nation in # of porn subscriptions per capita, porn consumption among the general internet user population and dial-up users. Source 1, and Red Light States: Who Buys Online Adult Entertainment?, Benjamin Edelman (Journal of Economic Perspectives—Volume 23, Number 1—Winter 2009—Pages 209–220). Utah also lead the nation in porn busts. FBI in Utah Lead Nation in Porn Busts.

Also, Utah:
Sexual misconduct pervasive problem among teachers (KSL.com, Oct. 25, 2009)

Quote from this KSL article: SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- State education officials say sexual misconduct by teachers is the No. 1 reason Utah educators are forced to surrender their licenses. Records shows Utah has nearly 20,000 licensed educators. Since 1992, the State Board of Education has suspended or revoked 313 teacher licenses -- 208 of them for sexual misconduct. That number excludes 10 cases still being investigated by the Utah Professional Practices Advisory Commission. The behaviors range from inappropriate touching and downloading pornography on a school computer to full-blown molestation...In 2005, a survey by The Associated Press ranked Utah 16th in the nation for teacher sex offenses based on disciplinary records from 2001 to 2005 in 50 states and the District of Columbia. At that time, 52.7 percent of Utah teachers who lost their licenses surrendered them for sexual misconduct -- twice the national rate, the AP found.
Sexual misconduct persistent in Utah schools (Oct. 25, 2009)
Utah's sexual assault rate outpaces U.S. average (April 6, 2010)

Utah Sexual assault realities:

* A few years ago, KSL reported that there's a reported rape in Utah less than 9.5 hours apart (see http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=14136899)-- that's up just from 2008 when it was just under a rape per 10 hours...http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/CIU%202008%20book%200810.pdf, p. 6

* Per the Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification (see also Utah Department of Health), the 2008 Utah rape rate was 63.7 per 100,000 females vs. U.S. average of 57.4. For entire crime report, see:
http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/CIU%202008%20book%200810.pdf

* BTW, 2008 wasn't some “new surge”: Since 1991, Utah’s rape rate has consistently inched higher than the national rate. By 2002, Utah ranked 14th in the nation for rapes.
[Source url: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600125585,00.html] -- and inched to 13th by 2004...http://www.utahfoundation.org/reports/?page_id=290)

* Why has Utah as of the years since 2000, consistently has ranked between 13 & 18 re: rape rate?

* Why as of 6 years ago, was Utah #8 in the nation for its sex offender rate per Nation Master.com?

Utah: "...officials are already struggling to house and treat the sex offenders who make up 30 percent of the state's prison population — well above the national average of 12 percent." Source: Tougher laws keep sex offenders behind bars

**************************

In just the last several years, authorities have tracked BILLIONS in white collar fraud committed by Mormons... [for more on that next post]

47 posted on 07/07/2013 10:45:34 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: CPO retired; SoConPubbie; All
I have lived in Utah among them. I have seen the clean homes, parks, retail areas, no graffiti, respectful young people, and especially helpful and respectful clerks in store toward elderly people. I have seen their patriotism and social stability up close.

Social stability? Take a closer look @ what you describe as "social stability"...and remember that Utah is 60% Lds:

Let's further look @ financial fraud just only going back to 2009

Lds members have fleeced over 1 & 1/2 $BILLION from fellow Mormons the past few years alone! Guess what? They initially didn't regret "doing business" with them, either!!!
(2010 Source puts it at over $1.4 billion...and MORE has been uncovered since then!) : Mormons Now Losing Billions to Affinity Fraud

Can you fill me in any other religious sect that has less than 2% of the overall population (1.7%) -- that has launched at least $1.4 billion worth of fraud schemes vs. fellow sect members the past two or three years?

If you only have time to click on one article link below...read this one: JOHN L. SMITH: Thieves in the temple: How 'affinity fraud' hurts LDS church members
Source: Las Vegas Review-Journal, Sept. 12, 2010 Be sure to read the comments of FBI special agent Cameron Saxey (who is Lds)...the article mentions how the Utah jurisdictional Securities Fraud Task Force was working on 100+ cases...meaning that $1.4 billion total doesn't tell it all!

The sad individual accounts [Indeed: Pray for the victims, most Lds]:

* All in the Mormon Family Mortgage Fraud [Re: Idaho fraud]
Source: Conservative Babylon.com, June 27, 2012

* Episode Detail: The Mormon Madoff - American Greed: Scams, Scoundrels and Scandals
Source: TV Guide.com re: series American Greed: Scams, Scoundrels, and Scandals, June 20, 2012

* Former LDS bishop gets jail, probation for massive fraud
Source: Provo Herald, June 7, 2012

* LDS Bishop Pleads Guilty To Fraud
Source: Kutv.com, June 7, 2012

* Utah investors caught up in alleged $170M fraud: SEC says 2 men committed fraud as they raised $170M to build Caribbean resorts, and that 250 of the 1,700 alleged victims are from Utah
Source: Salt Lake Tribune, May 31, 2012

* Beware of affinity fraud ‘predators’ who exploit trust, LDS spokesman warns
Source: Fraud College.org, April 2, 2012

* Former LDS bishop charged with fraud, pleads not guilty
Connecticut Criminal Defense Blog, March 29, 2012

* Former Mormon Bishop In Trumbull Charged With Investor Fraud
Source: Hartford Courant, March 27, 2012

* The LDS Church Issues a Strong Position on Affinity Fraud
Source: Utah Securities Fraud.com, March 7, 2012

* Affinity Fraud Called a Destructive Crime at Conference
Source: Lds.org, Feb. 20, 2012

* Church Representative to Address Fraud College [From the official Lds Web site]
Source: Lds.org, Feb. 15, 2012

* Affinity Fraud statement
Source: Official Mormon Newsroom.org, Undated (Early 2012)

* Father, son used Mormon connections to commit $220M Ponzi scheme (Utah case)
Source: Mormon church-owned KSL.com, Dec. 16, 2011

* Former LDS bishop cons elderly man out of life savings, police say
Source: Provo Daily Herald, Oct. 19, 2011

* Tag archives @Utahsecuritiesfraud.com: LDS Church

* Provo councilman Steve Turley charged with felonies [LDS High Council Member]
Source: Provo Herald, July 27, 2011

* Feds arrest St. George business man, philanthropist for mail fraud
Source: Mormon-church owned KSL.com, June 11, 2011

* Former LDS leader charged in fraud against Ute football coach, others
Source: Salt Lake Tribune, June 8, 2011

* Suspected Mormon Con Artist Pleading Guilty to $78M Scam
Source: Streetsweeper.org, May 31, 2011

* Mormon Madoff? Source: Financial Fraud Law.com, May 27, 2011

* A Fraud Played Out on Family and Friends
Source: New York Times, May 26, 2011

* St. George investor ordered to jail [ex-Lds bishop]
Source: MidUtahRadio.com, April 15, 2011

* Using trust to steal (Utah affinity fraud)
Source: Ogden (UT) Standard Examiner, Feb. 3, 2011

* JOHN L. SMITH: Thieves in the temple: How 'affinity fraud' hurts LDS church members
Source: Las Vegas Review-Journal, Sept. 12, 2010

* Local political gadfly arrested for exploiting elderly woman
Source: Provo Daily Herald, May 4, 2010

* Preying on the faithful: Though Mormons often victims, LDS church skips fraud-prevention event
Source: Salt Lake Tribune, May 2, 2010

* Kaneohe swindler is sentenced
Source: Honolulu Star-Bulletin, April 6, 2010

* Investors with troubled firm have Mormon ties
Source: Austin American Statesman, Jan. 16, 2010

* Man Who Defrauded Fellow Church Goer Pleads Guilty
Source: www.connect2utah.com (KUTV) Jan. 7, 2010

* Lindon Man Accused of Trying to Kill Witnesses to Alleged Scam
Source: MidUtahRadio.com, Nov. 19, 2009

* KSL 5 News investigates affinity fraud
Source: KSL.com Nov. 9, 2009

* Mormon victims are caught up in $50M scam to sell gold bullion
Salt Lake Tribune, Sept. 18, 2009

* LDS Church returned $200K in Southwick Tithing
Source: AP, Sept. 14, 2009

* Merriman's church donations may be tained [Momon Ponzi schemer's tithe monies ill-gotten?]
Source: Denver Post, April 24, 2009

* Man Who Defrauded Fellow Church Goer Pleads Guilty
Source: Fox News, April 8, 2009

* Calif. Man Charged with $40 million Ponzi scheme
Source: AP, March 20, 2009

The bottom line here is that you would expect a church that has 2% of the nation's population to have about 2% of affinity fraud cases -- even if they were as criminal as the atheists and agnostics! [You would expect them to have less than 2% if there was a true higher moral standard at operation here]. You don't expect cases involving $one and a half BILLION!

48 posted on 07/07/2013 10:47:29 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: bobo1
I personally cannot imagine anyone being a “morman” after careful analysis.

Hell!

A superficial glance ought to be enough!

49 posted on 07/08/2013 3:57:57 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: bobo1
I personally cannot imagine anyone being a “morman” after careful analysis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5evKY5n0GM

50 posted on 07/08/2013 3:59:39 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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