Skip to comments.5 Things You Donít Know about the Our Father [Ecumenical]
Posted on 07/10/2013 2:00:52 PM PDT by Salvation
Stephen Beale on July 9, 2013 ·
It’s a prayer faithful Catholics say at least once a week at Mass, if not several times daily. The words are well-known and well-worn in our mind, but there is a lot more to the Our Father than at first meets the eye.
Here are five things you did (or may) not know about this, the most central of all Christian prayers:
1. Echoes Jewish prayer: There’s an ancient prayer that beings with these words: May His great Name grow exalted and sanctified in the world that He created as He willed. May He give reign to His kingship in your lifetimes and in your days. … Sound familiar? It’s strikingly similar to the Our Father, but this is from a Jewish prayer called the Kaddish, which predates the time of Jesus. This prayer, which is often said at funerals and during mourning periods, expresses longing for the establishment of God’s kingdom on earth and is a “sanctification of God’s name,” according to one Jewish source. The word Kaddish is linked to the Hebrew word qadhosh, meaning holy. The connection between the Kaddish and the Our Father shows is yet another example of how the entirety of the Old Testaments—its commandments and prophecies, its sorrows and yearnings—were fulfilled in Jesus and the new kingdom He established through His ministry.
2. Fulfills Old Testament prophecy: Addressing God as ‘Our Father’ marks a radical change in our relationship with God. While God is described as ‘Father’ just 15 times in the Old Testament, Jesus describes him as such about 165 times in the gospels, according to Baker’s Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology. In most of those 15 Old Testament references, the ‘Our’ is not used with ‘Father.’ The two words appear together just twice in Isaiah 63:16 and 64:8. The first of these verses anticipates the first line of the Our Father: Lord, art our father, our redeemer, from everlasting is thy name. (In fact, ‘Our Father’ is repeated earlier in the same verse.) In the next chapter we read: And now, O Lord, thou art our father, and we are clay: and thou art our maker, and we all are the works of thy hands (Douay-Rheims). Although the specific phrase ‘Our Father’ is not in it, in Jeremiah 3:19 God rues faithlessness of the Israelites, who were supposed to regard Him as a Father. But later, in chapter 31:8-9, God predicts that His people will come back and call Him ‘Father’:
Look! I will bring them back from the land of the north; I will gather them from the ends of the earth, the blind and the lame in their midst, pregnant women, together with those in labor—an immense throng—they shall return. With weeping they shall come, but with compassion I will guide them; I will lead them to streams of water, on a level road, without stumbling. For I am a father to Israel. … (New American Bible, Rev. Ed.)
Truly in the Our Father this prophecy has finally come to fulfillment. By becoming ‘partakers of Christ’—through baptism and the Eucharist—we share in His sonship and can therefore address God as ‘Father.’ The trinitarian intimacy that was shared between the Father and Jesus is now opened to us.
3. The kingdom is Christ: There are many ways to read the petition Thy kingdom come. Many believers rightly sense these words ask God to spread His kingdom on earth and also within our hearts—something we know will not be completed until the end times. But kingdom has an even more fundamental meaning than all this. Several Church Fathers identified the kingdom of God directly with the person of Jesus Christ, using term autobasileia—or “self-kingdom.” (Basileia is the Greek word for kingdom.) “Jesus himself is the Kingdom; the Kingdom is not a thing, it is not a geographical dominion like worldly kingdoms. It is a person; it is he,” Pope Benedict XVI writes in Jesus of Nazareth. Put simply, when we pray Thy kingdom come we are praying for the coming of Christ—now and in the end times.
4. Super-substantial bread: You wouldn’t know it from the English text, but smack dab in the center of the Our Father is one of the greatest Eucharistic references in the Bible. What reads in English as daily is the Greek word epiousios, a combination of epi-, defined as upon or fitting, and ousia, meaning being or substance. The word daily is valid translation, but the Church, at least since Jerome, has kept in mind an alternative translation: ‘super-substantial.’ (In fact, that’s how Matthew 6:11 reads in the Douay-Rheims.) Now what else could ‘super-substantial’ bread be but the Eucharist itself—bread whose substance has been ‘transubstantiated’ into Christ? So how on earth did some translators get day? That comes from focusing on epi- as fitting. In that sense, epiousios refers to whatever is ‘fitting’ or ‘sufficient for our substance,’ according to Theophylact, a Greek father. Still, this word cries out for seeing a deeper meaning. Other than the Our Father, epiousios does not occur anywhere in ancient Greek, ousia itself is a loaded word, and had the writer meant simply day, he would said so using the normal Greek term for it, kath hemeran. This is why the Church has stuck to its guns on the Eucharistic interpretation. (See the catechism and Jesus of Nazareth.)
5. Don’t test God: In the petition, lead us not into temptation, the word translated as temptation could also be rendered as test. This makes sense: temptation certainly ‘tests’ our faith—our commitment to leading holy lives that honor God. It also highlights another way of understanding the petition, according to Anglican scholar N.T. Wright. He connects it with the Old Testament accounts of Israel ‘testing’ God. In Exodus 17:7, for example, the Israelites gripe about not having any water, which Wright interprets as a demand that God prove His presence among them. It is to this episode that Deuteronomy 6:16 refers when it states, You shall not put the LORD, your God, to the test (New American Bible, Rev. Ed.). This attempt to ‘test God’ betrays a fundamental lack of faith and love, Benedict writes:
The arrogance that would make God an object and impose our laboratory conditions upon him is incapable of finding him. For it already implies that we deny God as God by placing ourselves above him, by discarding the whole dimension of love, of interior listening; by no longer acknowledging as real anything but what we can experimentally test and grasp. (Jesus of Nazareth, 37).
Unlike the Israelites, Jesus refused to ‘test’ God when tempted to do so in the desert. In rebuking the devil, Jesus quotes from Deuteronomy. In 1 Corinthians 10:9, St. Paul urges us to do the same: Let us not test Christ as some of them did. So, while temptation can cover a multitude of sins, a specific one is the temptation to put God to the test. So, in this petition, among other things, we are asking God to preserve within us the supernatural virtues of faith and love.
Our Father Ping!
Thank you, Salvation. I love the Our Father.
I especially like #5 because God would never lead us into temptation (old words), but he does “test” us.
Much better translation “Do not put us to the final test.”
“But deliver us from the evil one.”
The words “evil one” also used to be in this prayer. Much more powerful.
It’s a perfect prayer.
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The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Four:Lord, Teach Us To Pray, Fifth Petition: Forgive Us Our Trespasses As We Forgive Those Who Trespass Against Us
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Four: Lord, Teach Us To Pray, Sixth Petition: Lead Us Not into Temptation"
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Four: Lord, Teach Us To Pray, Seventh Petition: Deliver Us from Evil. Amen
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The problematic word is epiousion. The difficulty is that the word seems to exist nowhere else in ancient Greek and that no one really knows what it means.
Because it refers to the Eucharist? Yes, I am aware.
Remember that Ecumenical threads are non-argumentative. Check the Religion Moderator’s homepage.
That's generally the verbiage I use in my private prayers....
The post I linked to is on the web site of the Archdioceses of Washington and the author is a Msgr.
I referenced it because seemed interesting in the context of the discussion of the meaning of the Lord’s Prayer.
That would work too.
Many of the points refer directly to events in the life of Israel during his wildereness wanderings after the Exodus.
Quite fitting for a prayer imparted by the new Moses.
Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a liar" Proverbs 30:6.
There you go again...Your pope is adding to the words of scripture to change the words of God into his own private interpretation...
Jesus himself is the Kingdom; the Kingdom is not a thing, it is not a geographical dominion like worldly kingdoms. It is a person; it is he, Pope Benedict XVI writes in Jesus of Nazareth. Put simply, when we pray Thy kingdom come we are praying for the coming of Christnow and in the end times.
I don't know where your pope got that but he certainly didn't get it from God...Of course Kingdom is a place with the King as it's head...If God wanted you to think he meant King instead of Kingdom, he would have said so...
Jesus is referred to the King over 20 times in the book of Matthew alone...Jesus is never referred to as a Kingdom...
4. Super-substantial bread: You wouldnt know it from the English text, but smack dab in the center of the Our Father is one of the greatest Eucharistic references in the Bible. What reads in English as daily is the Greek word epiousios, a combination of epi-, defined as upon or fitting, and ousia, meaning being or substance. The word daily is valid translation, but the Church, at least since Jerome, has kept in mind an alternative translation: super-substantial. (In fact, thats how Matthew 6:11 reads in the Douay-Rheims.) Now what else could super-substantial bread be but the Eucharist itselfbread whose substance has been transubstantiated into Christ?
So daily is a good translation according to your pope but it just doesn't fit your religion's theology... your religion chose an alternative translation??? Nope...They ignored the words of God and and made something up to fit your religon's theology...
So how on earth did some translators get day? That comes from focusing on epi- as fitting. In that sense, epiousios refers to whatever is fitting or sufficient for our substance,
How??? They believed God...
Perhaps from the same as G1966; to-morrow's; but more probably from G1909 and a derivative of the present participle feminine of G1510; for subsistence, that is, needful: - daily.
It is 'needful' substance, thus; daily subsistance...Regular bread...
according to Theophylact, a Greek father. Still, this word cries out for seeing a deeper meaning
Sure, if you want to ignore God...
I like everything about this article on the Lord's Prayer but the above. It is true that the Greek word translated as "daily" in English was a word used ONLY in Matthew 6:11 and Luke 11:3 in this prayer, I don't agree that its connotation MUST necessarily be the way Catholicism has used it. From the source http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1967&t=KJV, we learn that this word means the "bread of our necessity" or "the bread that suffices for each day". Also, in context, it speaks of the nourishment which is ready at hand and suffices - food sufficing from one day to the next. Christ's hearers are bidden to ask of God, in order that they may themselves be relieved of anxiety for the morrow.
The impression I get from this prayer Jesus spoke - and I don't believe that this SPECIFIC prayer must be repeated verbatim - is given to us as He said, "Pray in this manner...." Our prayer life with our Heavenly Father should be all about an intimate communion with Him where our hearts are laid bare before Him in repentance, in gratitude and in love.
Thanks, remember that Ecumenical threads are not for argumentation or antagonism.
I wasn't “arguing” nor “antagonizing”, only voicing my own thoughts about the subject of the thread. I have my suspicions, though, that this thread is simply another “stealth” post to proselytize for Roman Catholicism especially concerning the “Eucharist” interpretation the author includes. There is a certain history operating here on this forum. Some people could see that as "antagonistic".
That's what I said, pointing out that your pope is wrong in suggesting the Kingdom is Jesus...
“The Kingdom of Heaven is within you ...”
A very profound saying, and something to ponder.
A very profound saying, and something to ponder.
The Kingdom of 'God' is within you...
And there is a very profound difference...