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What ex-gay men can teach us about marriage
World Magazine ^ | 07/10/2013 | Sam A. Andreades

Posted on 07/10/2013 2:55:05 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

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1 posted on 07/10/2013 2:55:05 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
I'm going to read thismore carefully and attentively in a minute, but right now I must say I find the author's meaning is made ambiguous by his use of the word "gender" instead of "sex."

Gender is a matter of grammar, an in the present rhetorial setting it seems to mean a sense of "style" as masculine or feminine. I think this is irrelevant. A rather mannish woman could join a rather feminine man in the Holy Sacrament of Matrimony and have a perfectly valid and God-pleasing marriage.

She likes to bale hay? He like to make lace? No problem. Her hair is straight and short, he's got a headful of curls? No problem.

As long as they're a man and a woman, and what they do in bed includes the procreative marriage act. That's it.

"Gender" shades, slides and shape-shifts. "Sex" is a physiological fact. Marriage is defined by the two sexes, a permanent reality.

2 posted on 07/10/2013 3:30:38 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (On my honor.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
A variety of disciplines now understand achieving emotional closeness to be the prime determiner of a happy marriage.

NO kidding....

I sure hope they didn't use a research grant to figure that one out.

3 posted on 07/10/2013 3:37:01 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: metmom
Yeah. It's like "to really hear your spouse, you have to listen."

Tagline.

5 posted on 07/10/2013 3:41:33 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("You can observe a lot just by watchin'." - Yogi Berra)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I had the same initial reaction, as I really detest too-”meaningful” language; however, I have to say that when I read the entire article, I was very impressed with the author’s evenhanded treatment of the topic. I think his research brought out some really important, but very deeply buried, insights.


6 posted on 07/10/2013 3:46:55 PM PDT by jagusafr (the American Trinity (Liberty, In G0D We Trust, E Pluribus Unum))
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To: SeekAndFind

The sermon at my church last sunday involved the interview of an ex-gay christian. It was eye opening.

http://www.svtrinity.tv/Trinity_Worship_Ministry/Teaching/Entries/2013/7/7_Dirty_Little_Secrets__I_Cannot_Change.html


7 posted on 07/10/2013 3:49:26 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: jagusafr
There may well be a true affective complementarity between males and females which can be generalized across cultures, but I'm not sure what it would be.

Nor am I sure that affective gender differences overwhelm individual temperaments. For instance: a particular emotionally spontaneous, expressive man may be more emotive than a particular reserved or stoical woman.

I am uncomfortable with calling that genderqueer or gender-variant or gender-anything. It's a matter of individual temperament and, often, culture.

8 posted on 07/10/2013 4:05:10 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (My short term memory isn't what it used to be. Also, my short term memory isn't what it used to be.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

While generalizations can be made about people, they cannot be put in a box.

If people were more willing to accept others as they are, without excusing sin in their lives, life would be so much easier.

There’s a difference between character qualities and personality and making bad life choices. character differences make the world go round. Bad choices and the (usually) associated consequences I have little time or sympathy for.


9 posted on 07/10/2013 4:23:42 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: Rodamala
Give it more time.

I'm sure you'll get over it.

Not sure about the poor goat, though.

11 posted on 07/10/2013 5:26:01 PM PDT by x
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To: SeekAndFind

bkmk


12 posted on 07/10/2013 5:30:28 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Agreed. We do such a disservice when we, e.g., label guys who like show tunes as “light in the loafers”. Heck, I sing along with Barry Manilow at the top of my lungs! Emotion and sensitivity don’t make one a homosexual.


13 posted on 07/10/2013 7:00:14 PM PDT by jagusafr (the American Trinity (Liberty, In G0D We Trust, E Pluribus Unum))
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To: x

that’s one of my most favorite jokes.


14 posted on 07/10/2013 7:38:31 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: SeekAndFind

Thanks so much for posting this article. I’ll be passing it on to some people.


15 posted on 07/10/2013 9:10:57 PM PDT by married21
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Placemark for pingout. I just read a little bit (will read tomorrow) but I am so with you on the wrong use of the word “gender”.


16 posted on 07/10/2013 9:16:33 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah; Mrs. Don-o; metmom

I thought this was very interesting. I agree with everyone that using “gender” when “sex” was needed is an error. I got the impression that the experiences of the men quoted by the author, while quite sincere, are also very particular: the experiences of those individual men and the individual women they married.

While certain personality traits were described as distinctly “feminine,” would another observer have seen the same woman as simply a decent human being? Metmom is right on in saying that too much of human variety is ascribed to “gender” or excluded by “gender,” and too little space is given for simply humanity and virtuous character.


17 posted on 07/11/2013 3:15:27 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("The human project is all about babies! Culture is all about babies!" ~ Cdl. Dolan)
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To: jagusafr
Thanks for owning up to the Manilow part :o)---

.. but I'm with you. These days, paradoxically, the supposedly "don't-stereotype-me" gender activists are actyally erecting and enforcing huge new stereotype templates, so that everybody's got a rigid niche in the alphabet-soup LGBTQQI-BDSM-LSD-STD-AIDS luncy, and every bit of individuality you enjoy is labeled genderqueer.

Now I'm gonna go out and check out my new tool I got from eBay: a combination hatchet-hammer-crowbar-nail-puller. Much better for me than a cosmetics set!!!

18 posted on 07/11/2013 3:16:20 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (When I grow up, I'm gonna settle down, chew honeycomb & drive a tractor, grow things in the ground.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Is it a FUBAR?!? I’ve been coveting one of those! Have a great day, Mrs. Don-o.


19 posted on 07/11/2013 5:01:36 AM PDT by jagusafr (the American Trinity (Liberty, In G0D We Trust, E Pluribus Unum))
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To: jagusafr
It's an "antique" (by which they mean just o-o-o-l-d, nicked and rusty) combination tool, which, if made today, would be called a FuBar.

I'm shining it up! I love it, love it, love it! Now I don't have to pull nails out with my --- er --- nails.

:o)

Never WAS ladylike, durn it!

20 posted on 07/11/2013 5:32:12 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (When I grow up, I'm gonna settle down, chew honeycomb & drive a tractor, grow things in the ground.)
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