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Jehovah Witnesses dispel myths, discuss religion at Lyndhurst Kingdom Hall
North Jersey.com ^ | July 11, 2013 | KELLY NICHOLAIDES

Posted on 07/11/2013 7:52:18 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

Jehovah Witnesses have long been frowned upon regarding their approach. Their mission is the study of the Bible to gain enlightenment and to spread the word of the Bible or the "good news." They also teach of a Armageddon, which they claim is nearer than most think.

The religion is fairly new compared to others and is based on Bible teachings of Charles Taze Russell who formed a Bible study group in 1870 and later founded the Bible Student movement comprised of "witnesses." It is based on intense study of their own version of the Bible called the New World Translation and evangelism or spreading the "good word." Jehovah Witnesses teach that the present day human existence is about to be terminated with the direct intervention of God, who will use "Jesus to fully establish his heavenly government over earth, destroying existing human governments and non-Witnesses, creating a cleansed society of true worshippers." They see it as their mission to warn as many people as possible in the remaining time before Armageddon. All members of the religion are expected to take an active part in preaching and spreading the "good news" through the dissemination of The Watchtower publication. Witnesses refer to all their beliefs collectively as "the Truth".

The religion is simplistic; it's Christianity stripped down to its core, minus the crosses, icons, saints and elaborate rituals. "It was Christianity kind of reborn," says elder Howard Carroll, a Lyndhurst resident. "A lot of churches were teaching things that weren't necessarily in the Bible."

The followers, which are anything but cult-like, come from all walks of life and transgress many cultures. The Watchtower is published monthly in 209 languages. Locally, followers get together in Lyndhurst at their hall on Stuyvesant Avenue on Thursdays and Sundays for "meetings." The hall caters to local Portuguese and Spanish speaking, as well as English, Jehovah Witnesses.

"We're very normal people with professions such as lawyers and doctors," says Carroll, an art appraiser. "Some people feel we're fanatics or nuts or in cults because of our zeal when they see us on the streets passing out pamphlets, but we're just trying to be like early Christians. Our people are encouraged to be tactful, loving and kind. If someone says they're not interested, that's okay. We respect that and move on."

The door-to-door days of "witnessing" has evolved to sometimes making cold calls and inviting people to weekly meetings. The all-volunteer organization has 8 million followers worldwide, 1 million in the United States. Most came from various denominations of people who were searching for answers that were written in a much clearer way than in other Christian faiths' Bible versions, Carroll notes.

Raised as a Presbyterian, Carroll notes that Jehovah Witnesses strictly follow Jesus Christ's teachings and the way he lived. Witnesses believe in a possibility of a personal relationship with God; and that God is kind and merciful, and would not eternally "torture" people. Although witnesses believe in Satan as a fallen angel and God's biggest adversary, they do not believe he lives in hell.

"This puts us at odds with other religions because many take the popular stance to go along with the crowd. We stick to principles as far as morality and real family values," Carroll says. "We stand neutral as early Christians did as far as participating in wars, for example. All of us learned to be ministers and teachers of the Bible. In that sense, many countries exempt ministers with regard to military service if they take a conscientious objection stand."

In his late teens, Carroll explored various religions. "I found that compared to all religions, Jehovah Witnesses were closest to Bible teaching. I was impressed with fact that it is non-commercial, and everyone is on the same level, completely integrated," Carroll explains, noting that many in his group include former Muslims, Jews and various Christian denominations.

Carroll spent two years in a ministry in Honduras as part of a teaching ministry. Back in northern New Jersey, meeting halls include Wood-Ridge, Lyndhurst, Passaic, Paterson and Nutley. During a recent Thursday night meeting, witnesses and elders discussed scripture, provided role play examples and more for their members.

"When we go door to door, we have to be selective. Don't talk to a woman about politics, or a man on how to raise children," joked Carlstadt resident and elder Julio Ramu.

Ramu became a Jehovah Witness when he was a teenager in the 1940s. "I remember my dad coming back from the navy during World War I. He was disillusioned and he picked up this book and said 'this sounds like the truth,'" Ramu, who was raised Episcopalian, recalls.

After Ramu volunteered in the ministry's Brooklyn headquarters for seven years, he got married, moved to New Jersey and worked as a welder. "I used to do door to door witnessing a lot. People were rude, sometimes indifferent, sometimes manifested interest. I probably helped 10 people to become Jehovah Witnesses, and two became elders," Ramu reflects.

The organization features elders, ministerial servants, and an anointed class.

Doors slamming and people shutting their blinds are common for ministerial servants. "I walk away and shake the dust off my shoes," says Margarita Barbieri, a Clifton resident and former Catholic who converted in 1985.

Zella Coley, 78, notes that the group never seeks to force anyone to change their viewpoints. "Jehovah wants a willing heart," Coley explains. "A lot of people think we're people chasers. They see us coming and close the doors. But we don't want unwilling hearts."

Basic differences between Jehovah Witnesses and other Christian sects are as follows: Christians believe God is a trinity—the father, son and the Holy Spirit, whereas Jehovah Witnesses believe they are separate entities, with God being the creator. They pray to Jehovah (God). There is no such place as a literal burning Hell. The notion of Heaven immediately after death is not an option, until the second coming of Christ. Additionally, unlike churches, one would not find crosses, icons and rituals at Jehovah Witness meeting halls where the goal is simple: to learn and educate others.

Critics love to point to Biblical contradictions, whether they exist in the King James version of the Bible or the Jehovah Witnesses', New World Translation.

"When you study the Bible, and its apparent inconsistencies, you may find one scripture to contradict another, but the third or fourth scripture will explain that contradiction," Carroll says.

The New World Translation is similar to King James, but with different flavors of meaning, and with simpler language. "I rate it as a superior literal translation, taken from Hebrew and Greek translations," Carroll says. "We don't take liberties with translations. Some Bibles are amplified."

One of the original key translations from Hebrew and Greek is the translated name "Jehovah" used for God. From Hebrew into Greek, the translation restored the name of God to what it originally was, as cited in a Psalm 83-18.

"The word 'God' isn't a name. It's a title," Carroll stresses.

The Kingdom Halls where the Jehovah Witnesses study is simple, with no crosses or hierarchy of church leaders, and instead looks more like a school. "We feel a restoration back to early Christianity," Carroll says, noting that like Paul the Apostle, all those who teach should volunteer. "We learn with the goal of being teachers of the Bible, not just stocking up knowledge but learning how to teach, which we do at service meetings."

Like the early teachings of the Bible, Jehovah's Witnesses focus on obeying or knowing: "You can't separate the two. If you know Jehovah, you want to obey Him. You gain happiness by serving."


TOPICS: Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: jehovahswitnesses
Basic differences between Jehovah Witnesses and other Christian sects are as follows: Christians believe God is a trinity—the father, son and the Holy Spirit, whereas Jehovah Witnesses believe they are separate entities, with God being the creator. They pray to Jehovah (God). There is no such place as a literal burning Hell. The notion of Heaven immediately after death is not an option, until the second coming of Christ. Additionally, unlike churches, one would not find crosses, icons and rituals at Jehovah Witness meeting halls where the goal is simple: to learn and educate others.

Critics love to point to Biblical contradictions, whether they exist in the King James version of the Bible or the Jehovah Witnesses', New World Translation. "When you study the Bible, and its apparent inconsistencies, you may find one scripture to contradict another, but the third or fourth scripture will explain that contradiction," Carroll says. The New World Translation is similar to King James, but with different flavors of meaning, and with simpler language. "I rate it as a superior literal translation, taken from Hebrew and Greek translations," Carroll says. "We don't take liberties with translations. Some Bibles are amplified."

1 posted on 07/11/2013 7:52:18 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy
"Christians believe God is a trinity—the father, son and the Holy Spirit, whereas Jehovah Witnesses believe they are separate entities"

/calmly stated/ Not strictly true for two reasons. First, as I (non Jehovah Witness) see it, they believe in the divine mission of Christ and therefore have to be called "Christian", even if they have beliefs that differ from the mainstream or my own belief set. Second, not all Christians follow the Creed adopted by the Catholic Church in the 4th century.

2 posted on 07/11/2013 8:05:45 AM PDT by Pecos (If more sane people carried guns, fewer crazies would get off a second shot.)
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To: Alex Murphy; count-your-change

Alex, you can ping cyc to discuss whether this is true about his Jehovah’s Witnesses


3 posted on 07/11/2013 8:06:28 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Alex Murphy; Pecos

Sorry Pecos, but a Christian is one who believes that Jesus Christ is Lord, God and Savior. Jehovah’s W’s don’t believe that


4 posted on 07/11/2013 8:07:56 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Alex Murphy

We had some JW’s stop by once. I had my guns out on the kitchen table cleaning them. They never stopped by again. Not sure why.


5 posted on 07/11/2013 8:08:12 AM PDT by fulltlt
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To: Cronos

The JWs have given the “time of the end” warning and when it doesn’t happen, they simply change the date. They claim that it will happen as soon as 144,000 get to heaven, so when the end doesn’t come they say that apparently some of those that they thought were anointed ones didn’t make it. Before 1975, many quit their jobs, didn’t finish school, didn’t have children, sold their homes, etc., because they were told that Armageddon was coming.
They would rather die and let their children die than have a blood transfusion.
They say they only welcome the willing, but if one of their children decide that they don’t want to be a JW, they disfellowship them, and no family members can have anything to do with that person.
“Crisis of Conscience” by a former VP of the org. is a good read.
It is a cult.


6 posted on 07/11/2013 8:22:05 AM PDT by Rusty0604
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To: Alex Murphy
"I walk away and shake the dust off my shoes," says Margarita Barbieri, a Clifton resident and former Catholic who converted in 1985.

Isn't this what Jesus told his disciples to do after leaving towns that wouldn't hear the word? Didn't he also say it would be worse for those towns than Sodom and Gomorrah when judgement day arrives?

7 posted on 07/11/2013 8:22:53 AM PDT by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Alex Murphy
Sad, isn't it?

How did the simple message, spoken by what appeared to be a plain and simple man, His Word, His Body, His Church, be transformed into all of these different branches, denominations, systems and rituals, all so complex and each proud enough of itself to call itself the only way, the right way?

How He must be wounded to be Crucified by us, again and again. How His divided Church is weakened before the determined efforts of Satan and how each soul thus lost tears His Heart again and again.

8 posted on 07/11/2013 8:25:31 AM PDT by GBA (Our obamanation: Romans 1:18-32)
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To: Pecos

Pecos,

The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a false prophet. It is a group that denies orthodox, historical Christian doctrine:

They emphatically deny the Divinity of Christ (Second Person of the Trinity), His bodily resurrection, salvation by grace through faith in Christ, and the Personhood/Godhood of the Holy Spirit being the most egregious errors among many.

Pecos, I know you have been thoroughly indoctrinated by the Watchtower to not listen to anyone outside your group. They’ve told you that the New World Translation is a scholarly, accurate translation of Greek and Hebrew. But, that is NOT true. Don’t take my word for it - a little research into this translation will expose its pernicious fallacies.

I know it probably pointless to discuss these things with you, Pecos, as you WILL NOT listen (at least at this point). I know the Watchtower trains you well to know what you believe and why. The problem is it is all twisted history and doctrine. It’s like trying to unravel a knotted up ball of yarn.

Anyone reading this please understand. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are NOT an orthodox Christian group. This does not mean they are not nice people or an excuse to be mean or rude to them, but their doctrines go against nearly every major historical Christian doctrine. Research them and you will see what I mean.

A good book on the subject is “Kingdom of the Cults” by Walter Martin (now deceased) and there is a wonderful website of many of his speeches and the subject:

http://www.waltermartin.com/whatsnew.html

There are other fine books and Christian apologetic websites on Jehovah’s Witnesses out there as well.

Again, I’m not attacking Pecos as a person. He may well be a very nice guy. I’m sure he is absolutely genuine and sincere in his belief, but sincerity is no guarantee of truth.

Beware of the doctrinal statements this man is making. Your soul depends on it.


9 posted on 07/11/2013 8:27:26 AM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: Alex Murphy
One of the things Jehovah Witness's do is they build their own churches. The members do the labor, no money is borrowed against the building... (or this was the case over 50 years ago) when I talked and studied a bit with one of the members.

They honor no day above another, they do not believe in transfusions, there are a few other differences. They are dedicated believers, and they follow the Bible's instructions to the best they are able. They did not talk a lot about sins. The are excellent citizens. I do not remember if they go to war. I suspect they are conscientious observers. They are sincere.

10 posted on 07/11/2013 8:28:19 AM PDT by geologist ("If you love me, keep my commands" .... John 14 :15)
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To: Rusty0604

Have you ever heard about the underground city that the JoHos built for themselves in preparation for the 1972 iteration of the apocalypse?

It’s located outside of Georgetown Ontario, and is underneath their Canadian headquarters.


11 posted on 07/11/2013 8:30:18 AM PDT by Kriggerel ("All great truths are hard and bitter, but lies... are sweeter than wild honey" (Ragnar Redbeard))
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To: Alex Murphy; Pecos

Sorry Alex, I should have addressed this to both you and Pecos.

The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a false prophet. It is a group that denies orthodox, historical Christian doctrine:

They emphatically deny the Divinity of Christ (Second Person of the Trinity), His bodily resurrection, salvation by grace through faith in Christ, and the Personhood/Godhood of the Holy Spirit being the most egregious errors among many.

Pecos, I know you have been thoroughly indoctrinated by the Watchtower to not listen to anyone outside your group. They’ve told you that the New World Translation is a scholarly, accurate translation of Greek and Hebrew. But, that is NOT true. Don’t take my word for it - a little research into this translation will expose its pernicious fallacies.

I know it probably pointless to discuss these things with you, Pecos, as you WILL NOT listen (at least at this point). I know the Watchtower trains you well to know what you believe and why. The problem is it is all twisted history and doctrine. It’s like trying to unravel a knotted up ball of yarn.

Anyone reading this please understand. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are NOT an orthodox Christian group. This does not mean they are not nice people or an excuse to be mean or rude to them, but their doctrines go against nearly every major historical Christian doctrine. Research them and you will see what I mean.

A good book on the subject is “Kingdom of the Cults” by Walter Martin (now deceased) and there is a wonderful website of many of his speeches on the subject:

http://www.waltermartin.com/whatsnew.html

There are other fine books and Christian apologetic websites on Jehovah’s Witnesses out there as well.

Again, I’m not attacking Pecos as a person. He may well be a very nice guy. I’m sure he is absolutely genuine and sincere in his belief, but sincerity is no guarantee of truth.

Beware of the doctrinal statements this man is making. Your soul depends on it.

P.S. The Watchtowr, Bible and Tract Society (i.e. Jehovah’s Witnesses) is anything BUT simple. A little research into them and their history will demonstrate that as well.


12 posted on 07/11/2013 8:32:55 AM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: Kriggerel
Have you ever heard about the underground city that the JoHos built for themselves in preparation for the 1972 iteration of the apocalypse? It’s located outside of Georgetown Ontario, and is underneath their Canadian headquarters.

I know about the 1972 date, but I've never heard of this "underground city" - do you have any information you can post about it?

13 posted on 07/11/2013 8:35:39 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("...Someone handed the keys to the Forum to the OPC and its sympathizers...")
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To: Kriggerel

No, haven’t heard or forgot about it. I spent many years trying to forget that cult to which I was not willingly brought into.


14 posted on 07/11/2013 8:35:47 AM PDT by Rusty0604
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To: Alex Murphy

I’ve not been able to find much of anything about it online. However, I live about a half hour drive from Georgetown, and I’ve been hearing all the locals talk about it for years, including a number, who claim to have been part of the construction/excavation crew in the late sixties-early seventies.

I’ve also seen the property from ground level on numerous occasions. Sixty five acres of immaculately mowed lawns and pancake-flat grounds smack in the middle of hilly country, and with hills on every side of the property. The only ground level buildings to be seen are what looks like a barn, and a secondary building not much bigger than a farmhouse. Not exactly all that impressive for buildings that supposedly house the Canadian headquarters of Watchtower.

By comparison, The Seventh Day Adventists have their Canadian headquarters in Oshawa Ontario, and they easily have four times the above-ground building and office space that Watchtower does.

Make of all of that what you will.


15 posted on 07/11/2013 8:48:59 AM PDT by Kriggerel ("All great truths are hard and bitter, but lies... are sweeter than wild honey" (Ragnar Redbeard))
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To: rusty schucklefurd

“Crisis of Conscience” is a great book written by a disfellowshiped VP that shows how they are a false prophet.


16 posted on 07/11/2013 8:52:29 AM PDT by Rusty0604
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To: geologist

re: “One of the things Jehovah Witness’s do is they build their own churches. The members do the labor, no money is borrowed against the building... (or this was the case over 50 years ago) when I talked and studied a bit with one of the members.”

Yes, this is still the case.

re: “They honor no day above another”

You are correct. They do not celebrate any holidays nor even their own birthdays thinking it is idolatry.

re: “they do not believe in transfusions, there are a few other differences.”

Yes, there are actually QUITE a few differences. The biggest being that they do not believe in the One Triune God, they deny that Jesus is God the Son, equal to the Father and Spirit. They basically are polytheists because they believe that Jehovah is God and Father (the big God), and Jesus is god/divine, a little “god” or “deity”. Two separate gods.

re: “They are dedicated believers”

Absolutely true. But, remember, sincerity and dedication to a belief is not a guarantee that they are believing the truth. Just that they are dedicated.

re: “and they follow the Bible’s instructions to the best they are able.”

Well, they follow the instructions given from the Watchtower which TELLS them what to believe regarding the Bible. They are not allowed to study the Bible without the Watchtower helps. The Watchtower warns their members NOT to study God’s Word on their own.

re: “The are excellent citizens.”

The ones I have met are indeed nice people, however they do not hold no regard or allegiance to any government, including the founding principles of the United States. They hold no allegiance to our Constitution and refuse to recite the Pledge because they believe our flag is an idol.

re: “I do not remember if they go to war. I suspect they are conscientious observers.”

They are total pacifists.

re: “They are sincere.”

True, but again, sincerity is not an absolute sign of being correct/right. You can sincerely wrong as well as sincerely right. Find out what their doctrines are and contrast it with what the Bible actually teaches - not from their literature, but just on your own or with a trusted friend from outside their group. Check out what they say and see if it matches what the Scriptures teach.


17 posted on 07/11/2013 8:52:37 AM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: Rusty0604

re: ““Crisis of Conscience” is a great book written by a disfellowshiped VP that shows how they are a false prophet.”

Thanks, Rusty0604, I will check that one out.


18 posted on 07/11/2013 8:53:36 AM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: Alex Murphy

When I was a child and asked how Jehovah was going to kill every person in the world that wasn’t a JW without killing a JW standing right next to him, I was told to have faith in Him because he can do anything.
These people, if they did build an underground shelter, s/h/b/ admonished for lack of faith. And they better have plenty of supplies, because it’s been 100 years since their first date for Armageddon was 1914. (which was changed after further enlightenment)


19 posted on 07/11/2013 8:58:45 AM PDT by Rusty0604
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To: rusty schucklefurd
Just so happens that Michael Voris of ChurchMilitant.tv has a video today on the subject of the Trinity. He sort of takes a soft jab at Cardinal Dolan for his comments to a Muslim group that was highly reported.

Take a look here.

20 posted on 07/11/2013 9:00:32 AM PDT by mc5cents (Pray for America)
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To: geologist

“The are excellent citizens.”

They are lousy citizens. They refuse to serve their country.


21 posted on 07/11/2013 9:35:28 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Alex Murphy
Much of what is THOUGHT to be taught in the Bible is not but is in fact the traditions of men used as a litmus test for Christianity.

THE defining characteristic of Jesus’ disciples was not a belief in a triune god.

22 posted on 07/11/2013 9:40:02 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: count-your-change
Much of what is THOUGHT to be taught in the Bible is not but is in fact the traditions of men used as a litmus test for Christianity.

Except when you can find it in the Bible.

23 posted on 07/11/2013 9:45:31 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("...Someone handed the keys to the Forum to the OPC and its sympathizers...")
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To: Lx

sn’t this what Jesus told his disciples to do after leaving towns that wouldn’t hear the word?


Yes but Jesus sent out the messengers to take the news to people that Jesus himself was going to be in that particular ares so that people who were interested in what he had to say could gather at the house the messengers found they would be welcome.

They were not to go from door to door but were to stay where they were welcomed.

They were setting up houses where people could come and listen to Jesus, the people in each particular area would do the advertising.


24 posted on 07/11/2013 9:49:59 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Rusty0604

“The JWs have given the “time of the end” warning and when it doesn’t happen, they simply change the date.”


Rusty you got that right! JWs are either brainwashed drones or 100% pure liars.

In 1975, I worked for a company that had 4 JWs (one was 1/2 owner), and all these glazed eyed JWs kept telling us that the earth was going to end in 1975 and only the JWs would survive. The 1/2 owner JW even built a bigger house for his other JWs relatives to come to at the end of time. (still makes no sense).

So, obviously 1975 comes and goes with no end of the world and every single one of these liars completely denied they had said any such thing. No excuses just a 100% denial that they had said it. It was exactly like talking to any Saul Alinsky lying liberal as they had no problem lying to your face.

If that is what they want to believe, as long as they aren’t beheading people like the hate cult of Islam, fine but they can keep their lying preaching to themselves.


25 posted on 07/11/2013 9:54:59 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam! 969)
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To: Alex Murphy

They believe Christ returned to Earth and established His “Invisible Kingdom” in 1914. I would imagine things would be going a lot better than they are if Christ ruled the earth instead of Satan. They’ve predicted the “End” six times and once built a home for Abraham. Oh, Charles Taze Russell was heavy into the Masons and is buried under a pyramid.
They are most definitely a cult. Go on Youtube and see the heartbreak of disfellowshipped ex-Witnesses, most who’ve lost their families.


26 posted on 07/11/2013 9:56:22 AM PDT by Chaparral79
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To: Alex Murphy

Like being punished in a burning hell?


27 posted on 07/11/2013 10:07:52 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: count-your-change
Like being punished in a burning hell?

I'm sure it would be helpful if you could post some threads, providing apologetics for these beliefs. Or if you'd like, I can do so for you.

28 posted on 07/11/2013 10:11:15 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("...Someone handed the keys to the Forum to the OPC and its sympathizers...")
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To: Alex Murphy

A well-researched, even-handed examination of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, titled Jehovah’s Witnesses – Are They Really?”, is available for free download at:

http://sgdpress.com/Jehovah_s_Witnesses.html

Major sections of this publication are:

The Jehovah’s Witnesses Organization Was Admittedly Based upon Enforced Acceptance of The Teachings of False Prophets

Jehovah’s Witnesses Have and Have Always Had an Unscriptural “Key” To Understanding The Bible

Jehovah’s Witnesses Do Not Honor Jesus As They Honor The Father

Jehovah’s Witnesses Propagate Teachings Which Contradict Plain Bible Teaching


29 posted on 07/11/2013 10:23:00 AM PDT by FNU LNU (Nothing runs like a Deere, nothing smells like a john)
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To: ravenwolf

The quote is Mathew 10:1-42 from the KJ version. It doesn’t say Jesus will physically be there, it says as the Apostles have received him (Jesus), so the people should receive the Apostles.
It says that the Apostles are supposed to enquire who in it (the town) is worthy and they should go to that house.

Math 10:13-14 make it clear that if they don’t find the house and its inhabitants worthy, then the peace the Apostles let ‘come upon it whne they first entered’ should return back to the disciples and then they should shake the dust from their boots.

Now, Mathew 10:11 says that after Jesus is done instructing the Apostles, ‘...he departed to thence to teach and to preach in their cities. He uses the their form of there but he doesn’t mention who he is talking about. It is possible he is talking about his Disciples and the places they visit or he’s talking in general terms of all the places he will enter.

This is what I love about the Bible, it is written simply so us humans can attempt to understand it but it is not written at a second grade level or we would never get anything out of it. He also doesn’t write it at a PhD level either, can you imagine Genesis saying, God first created the top quark and then all the smaller elements (atoms) and then created molecules and DNA and continued on, no one would have understood it then or even now.
It’s not a hard book to read, (besides the fact that it points daggers at your heart in almost every chapter and if we didn’t have Jesus, we would be in a bad place).

I prefer the King James version as I like the way it’s written, what other version would have this quote about Lazarus lying in his tomb, “He Stinketh” too funny.


30 posted on 07/11/2013 10:23:36 AM PDT by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Alex Murphy
I used to go to the kingdom hall and have also talked with the J W,s a lot, nice people but following a money making organization. They bash the KJV for using the word God instead of Jehovah, yet God is in the new world translation many times. I don,t know if they bring a Bible with them when they come to your house or not but all i have saw is the little guide book that they can look up any answer which will supposedly prove their point. Never mind the fact that it is probably not on the same issue. The J.W,s say that the body and soul are the same thing, yet the new world translation says Mat 10 28 And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Ge‧hen′na. Maybe that is why they have never brought their Bible into my house, if the body and soul were the same thing the soul would be killed if the body was killed. I believe the ( supposedly )new world translation is not a translation at all but only a paraphrase from the KJV, just like the living Bible and most likely a bunch of others, and for the express purpose of selling books. I do agree with the J W, s on some things, such as Christmas and Easter, i believe they were incorporated into Christianity from the Pagans. I see Christmas as nothing but a fraud. After having said my thoughts on the matter i think there is only one that is going to judge, and that is God.
31 posted on 07/11/2013 10:45:01 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Lx

The quote is Mathew 10:1-42 from the KJ version. It doesn’t say Jesus will physically be there, it says as the Apostles have received him (Jesus), so the people should receive the Apostles.


I can not say that i disagree with you but I was not referring to Mat, i was using Luke 10.

1
After these things the LORD appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, where he himself would come.

7
And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.


I believe that is the scripture the Jehovah’s use or at least the one pointed out to me.

It tells them not to go from house to house but they will point out that Paul went from house to house.

Paul obviously went from Church house to Church house.

At any rate i see the J.W s as Christians even though i do not agree with them on many things.


32 posted on 07/11/2013 11:18:31 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Wurlitzer

I could and have thought of writing a book about the damage their prophecies have done to its members and their families, having lived through it. I never talk about this to anyone and here I am posting it for the world to see, but maybe if I can help anyone with my story it’s worth it.


33 posted on 07/11/2013 12:50:49 PM PDT by Rusty0604
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To: GBA
How did the simple message, spoken by what appeared to be a plain and simple man, His Word, His Body, His Church, be transformed into all of these different branches, denominations, systems and rituals, all so complex and each proud enough of itself to call itself the only way, the right way?

Easy...They added to or took away from the scriptures to create their own view...They invented traditions that even while they are condemned by God, have been given preeminence over God's written words...

The wisdom that can come only from God is replaced by human philosophy (man's wisdom)...

34 posted on 07/11/2013 4:20:29 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: geologist

All fine things to be, and yet totally worthless in attaining salvation.

Salvation is by faith in Christ because no one, not one single person, no matter how admirable they look on the outside to others, is capable of earning their salvation or paying the debt they owe for their sins.


35 posted on 07/11/2013 6:26:18 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Iscool
I agree. I think this is interesting:

"My Church is reigning in confusion;” – Do Not Judge
"Vassula, it should never be up to you to accuse them, learn to say instead: “let the Lord be Judge and correct them;”

36 posted on 07/11/2013 6:42:45 PM PDT by GBA (Our obamanation: Romans 1:18-32)
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To: Rusty0604; count-your-change; MarkBsnr
They say they only welcome the willing, but if one of their children decide that they don’t want to be a JW, they disfellowship them, and no family members can have anything to do with that person. “Crisis of Conscience” by a former VP of the org. is a good read. It is a cult.

That is correct

37 posted on 07/11/2013 9:11:34 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: GBA
I agree. I think this is interesting:

The link you posted is the very claptrap I was referring to...

38 posted on 07/12/2013 5:25:19 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool

I think you have judged too soon, and might be speaking with authority without having experience.


39 posted on 07/12/2013 5:29:11 AM PDT by GBA (Our obamanation: Romans 1:18-32)
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To: metmom
I agree. My point is there are many religions that are not Christian and of course we respect and do not denigrate them on a regular basis. I personally am not in agreement with the Mormons. Just like Islam they had an encounter with the LORD through an angel. It is not good to confuse the world with all these mixed messages and getting incorrect ideas into Christianity. Look at the many many denominations of Christianity.
40 posted on 07/12/2013 8:02:45 AM PDT by geologist ("If you love me, keep my commands" .... John 14 :15)
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To: vladimir998

Good point.


41 posted on 07/12/2013 8:03:59 AM PDT by geologist ("If you love me, keep my commands" .... John 14 :15)
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To: Alex Murphy

Anyone who wants to know whether the JWs’ New World Translation legitimately translates passages historically used as the basis for the doctrine of the Trinity, go onto ebay and pick up a copy of the Watchtower’s own “Kingdom Interlinear.” They don’t tend to use it these days because it clearly demonstrates how they’ve abused the Greek to craft their theology.


42 posted on 07/12/2013 8:08:57 AM PDT by william clark (Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: william clark

And, incidentally, they also believe that Christ is Michael the Archangel, and they deny Christ’s bodily resurrection (thereby making him a liar when he said “Destroy THIS temple and I will raise it...”)


43 posted on 07/12/2013 8:14:24 AM PDT by william clark (Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: rusty schucklefurd; All

Walter Martin was a great exposer of “Christian” cults.

I used to listen to a radio program daily where he sometimes was a guest.

One time he told a story of JWs coming to his door, and they mentioned John Chapter 1, where they claim it says that Jesus is A God, not God in the trinity Biblical understanding.

He looked at them and said do you mean this? And proceeded to quote the scripture in the original Greek, then explained to them that there was no “a” as they claim.

He said they just left...

It is a well known fact among true Christians that have studied JWs that they didn’t have Greek scholors (such as Martin) when they (mis)translated their erroneous bible.


44 posted on 07/12/2013 12:54:13 PM PDT by Syncro ("So?" - -Andrew Breitbart --The King of All Media RIP Feb 1, 1969 – Mar 1, 2012)
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