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Was the shape of the menorah in the Holy Temple...round or straight branched?
Chabad.org ^ | 7/14/13 | Rabbi Mendel Kaplan

Posted on 07/16/2013 7:09:03 PM PDT by Phinneous

A video class regarding the shape of the Menorah (candelabra) used in the Holy Temple in Jerusalem.


TOPICS: History; Judaism; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: menorah; temple; torah
In short---it was straight.

Enjoy!

1 posted on 07/16/2013 7:09:03 PM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous

I think Reform holds that it was Electric...


2 posted on 07/16/2013 7:11:03 PM PDT by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Obama: the bearded lady of Muslim Brotherhood))
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To: Hardraade

OOL (Oy-vey Out Loud)


3 posted on 07/16/2013 7:13:57 PM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous

I don’t remember.


4 posted on 07/16/2013 7:14:58 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

From where would you forget?


5 posted on 07/16/2013 7:16:37 PM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous

I have a miniature copy of it and it’s straight.


6 posted on 07/16/2013 7:18:31 PM PDT by Marcella ((Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.))
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To: Phinneous

Well its been so long since I was there.


7 posted on 07/16/2013 7:19:16 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

....I don’t have to speak, and she defends me...


8 posted on 07/16/2013 7:21:38 PM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous

From the Arch of Titus in Rome depicting spoils from the Temple in Jerusalem.

Coin from the Maccabean era.

9 posted on 07/16/2013 7:28:20 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Phinneous
Square. All right angles.

We can't have it be cooked (round), can we?

; )

10 posted on 07/16/2013 7:29:26 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Phinneous

Another view of the Menorah's shape.

11 posted on 07/16/2013 7:34:02 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

Gotta hear the class.... You post the classic counter examples, of course. Even later version of ArtScroll chumashim picture straight branches.


12 posted on 07/16/2013 7:34:30 PM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous

hehe

I’ve heard the class many times.


13 posted on 07/16/2013 7:36:02 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Phinneous
I was just looking at a picture of the Arch of Titus in Rome that was made to commemorate his destruction of Jerusalem. The relief in the arch shows it as curved/or rounded. Don't know if it is accurate, but I believe the arch was made not too long after the attack.
14 posted on 07/16/2013 8:20:26 PM PDT by parmamenian
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To: Phinneous

The Menorah picture from the Temple Institute web page. The Menorah is made from one solid piece of gold.
http://www.templeinstitute.org/vessels_gallery_11.htm


15 posted on 07/16/2013 9:10:41 PM PDT by anchorclankor (From the main part of Missouri)
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To: parmamenian; jjotto
The relief in the arch shows it as curved/or rounded. Don't know if it is accurate, but I believe the arch was made not too long after the attack.

The menorah depicted on the Arch of Titus is not the original of which the article speaks. It was made during the Second Temple Period under the direction of Herod, the original having been fabricated with three distinct legs as opposed to the tiered base you see in the Arch upon which are a number of pagan symbols. The orthodox don't like it a bit.

There is popular art from that period found repeatedly in Israel that depicts the latter three-legged form (thought by some to be a symbol of protest against Roman occupation).

16 posted on 07/16/2013 9:14:13 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party, advancing indentured constituency for 150 years.)
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To: parmamenian

That is the crux of the class...


17 posted on 07/16/2013 9:26:02 PM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Carry_Okie

The menorah on the Arch looks like the menorah on the Maccabean coins, which far predate Herod’s Second Temple.


18 posted on 07/17/2013 8:43:07 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto
The menorah on the Arch looks like the menorah on the Maccabean coins, which far predate Herod’s Second Temple.

Having reviewed a fair bit of the literature on the topic, I will concede the point about straight v. rounded arms. It would seem that those holding for straight arms are in concurrence with Rashi and Maimonides. Yet the Hasmonian coins of which you speak are not undisputed, particularly as regards the base, the consensus about which is that it is Hasmonian. The key problem of that depicted on the Arch of Titus is that it sports pagan iconography, such as the dragon and eagle, which are definitely characteristic of Roman iconography. There are also pottery shards and mosaics from that time depicting the menorah with three legs.

From one particularly thorough source:

If one looks closely at the base of the Menora, one discovers the matter is even more horrific. The panels on the base include: the picture of two eagles (the symbol of Rome), and a dragon with a tail of a fish! The dragon was one of the idols of Greek mythology, worshiped during Roman rule. The Mishna in Avoda Zara states that, "if one finds vessels and upon them are the picture of a dragon... they must be thrown into the Dead Sea." They must be destroyed because one is forbidden to derive any benefit from as an idol. In fact, an exact duplication of panel, both the picture of the dragon as well as the border motif, is found in a Roman Temple in Turkey.

The majority of discussions I saw cited the base as a Herodian creation intended to curry favor with his Roman overlords. The notable lack of the menorah on coins after that time and the third century return to a three-legged image in concurrence with the Gemara on the topic suggest a similar conclusion.

19 posted on 07/20/2013 6:58:18 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (Islam offers choices: convert, submit, or die.)
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To: Carry_Okie

You are correct about the base of the menorah on Hashmonaim coins. It is indeed different from the base depicted on the Herodian menorah even though the curve of the branches seems similar.

I do tend to lean toward the Chabad view, though I can see that the counter argument might be correct in the end.


20 posted on 07/21/2013 2:57:57 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Carry_Okie

Oh, by the way, I don’t think it is a coincidence that the base of the menorah that is the official symbol of the State of Israel uses the square block Herodian/Roman design: Jews are not yet sovereign in the Land of Israel.


21 posted on 07/21/2013 3:14:06 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto
Oh, by the way, I don’t think it is a coincidence that the base of the menorah that is the official symbol of the State of Israel uses the square block Herodian/Roman design: Jews are not yet sovereign in the Land of Israel.

We're on the same page there. It's a typical Sabbatean in-your-face piece of flim-flam, just like the Israeli Supreme Court Building the Rothschilds built.

22 posted on 07/21/2013 3:36:47 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (Islam offers choices: convert, submit, or die.)
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