Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Sorry, retweeting the pope won't get you out of hell
CNN ^ | 7/17/2013 | Rev. James Martin, SJ

Posted on 07/18/2013 4:39:44 AM PDT by markomalley

Here were the tantalizingly weird headlines: “Follow pope online, get to heaven sooner - Facebook likes don't count.” “Cut your time in purgatory by following pope on Twitter.” And, worst of all, from Slate: “Pope now offering indulgences in exchange for Twitter followers.”

Similar headlines popped up on more than 190 news sources on Wednesday.

Ha ha. Is the Catholic Church offering time off in hell– or purgatory, depending on the website - just for checking your Twitter feed every few hours? Is the church really that dumb? And here I thought Pope Francis was cool, or as Esquire recently termed him, “awesome.”

This is (another) case of how the media misunderstands and misreports a story from “The Vatican.”

Here’s how it seemed to have happened.

On June 24, the Apostolic Penitentiary (the Vatican office that deals with matters concerning sin,) issued a document that said the faithful who attend the upcoming World Youth Day in Brazil would receive a “plenary indulgence” for their efforts during pilgrimage.

That’s a traditional Catholic term for the full remission of the “temporal punishment” in the afterlife due to sin. The theological idea is that by doing good works on earth, or by engaging in pious practices like a pilgrimage, you can help “work off” some of the temporal punishments that may await you after death.

(Excerpt) Read more at religion.blogs.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: indulgence; purgatory
Two points:

Purgatory:

1 Cor 3:9-16 For we are God' s coadjutors: you are God' s husbandry; you are God' s building. According to the grace of God that is given to me, as a wise architect, I have laid the foundation; and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: Every man' s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man' s work, of what sort it is. If any man' s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man' s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

Relying upon the MSM:

We make a very serious mistake if we rely on media like the New York Times, Newsweek, CNN, or MSNBC for reliable news about religion. These news media simply don’t provide trustworthy information about religious faith—and sometimes they can’t provide it, either because of limited resources or because of their own editorial prejudices. These are secular operations focused on making a profit. They have very little sympathy for the Catholic faith, and quite a lot of aggressive skepticism toward any religious community that claims to preach and teach God’s truth.

Archbishop Charles J Chaput, World Youth Day, 2011

Thankfully, CNN decided, rather belatedly, to provide the accurate answer after publishing the ridiculousness.

And, for what it's worth, Here is the actual decree from the Apostolic Penitentiary

1 posted on 07/18/2013 4:39:44 AM PDT by markomalley
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: markomalley

Bless you, dear!


2 posted on 07/18/2013 4:42:16 AM PDT by Tax-chick (No pun intended, no punishment ... If I offended you, you needed it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

Dang, I’ve been up all night retweeting...


3 posted on 07/18/2013 5:22:02 AM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

The passage has nothing to do with “Purgatory”


4 posted on 07/18/2013 5:55:48 AM PDT by I want the USA back (If I Pi$$ed off just one liberal today my mission has been accomplished.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mlizzy

;-)


5 posted on 07/18/2013 6:07:04 AM PDT by Tax-chick (No pun intended, no punishment ... If I offended you, you needed it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: I want the USA back
The passage has nothing to do with “Purgatory”.

You omitted the caveat, "in my unlearned opinion"

"And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16

6 posted on 07/18/2013 6:07:05 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Electorate data confirms Resolute Conservative voted for Soetoro)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

The silence from the usual suspects is deafening.


7 posted on 07/18/2013 6:07:52 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Electorate data confirms Resolute Conservative voted for Soetoro)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

Thanks for the info. But it’s a moot point if there is no purgatory where suffering can be “worked off” by doing good works now.

“That’s a traditional Catholic term for the full remission of the “temporal punishment” in the afterlife due to sin. The theological idea is that by doing good works on earth, or by engaging in pious practices like a pilgrimage, you can help “work off” some of the temporal punishments that may await you after death.”


8 posted on 07/18/2013 6:20:03 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: I want the USA back

This smells like a disinformation campaign intended to discredit Pope Francis and make all us Catholics out here look like raving nutballs.


9 posted on 07/18/2013 6:24:37 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3044475/posts

Here it is again, this time from CBS, such a knowledgeable source ...


10 posted on 07/18/2013 6:27:39 AM PDT by Tax-chick (No pun intended, no punishment ... If I offended you, you needed it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: A.A. Cunningham

The truth does not need a caveat.
If you were blind you would have no sin, but because you say ‘I see’ your sin remains.

‘wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.’

You deserve your destruction.


11 posted on 07/18/2013 7:23:47 AM PDT by Duke of Milan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: markomalley
Sorry, retweeting the pope won't get you out of hell

So based on the title, Catholics are (still) going to Hell?

12 posted on 07/18/2013 7:27:03 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Duke of Milan

Your particular judgment is going to be a very unpleasant experience. You had better be prepared.


13 posted on 07/18/2013 8:14:07 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Electorate data confirms Resolute Conservative voted for Soetoro)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: A.A. Cunningham; Duke of Milan; Mrs. Don-o
Your particular judgment is going to be a very unpleasant experience. You had better be prepared.

Last month, I was told that Catholics "canonize, but do not demonize". I wish Catholics would get their stories straight!

14 posted on 07/18/2013 8:20:01 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

CNN, isn’t that the network that used to be owned by that bigot Ted Turner who openly mocked employees with black crosses on their forehead?


15 posted on 07/18/2013 8:25:11 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: I want the USA back
"The passage has nothing to do with “Purgatory”

It has to do with a man whose "works" were kind of a mixed bag, but who - in the Day of the Lord -- is purified of the worthless stuff, which is burnt; he himself is saved, but only as through fire.

There is reference to judgment, and purification, and fire, and the soul being saved, but only after going through this purifying fire.

Am I understanding you correctly?

16 posted on 07/18/2013 8:27:45 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Lord, give me a discerning spirit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy

Did the title say Catholics were going to hell?


17 posted on 07/18/2013 8:29:15 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Lord, give me a discerning spirit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!

Galatians 2:19-21

You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

Galatians 3:1-3

I ask this honestly—why is the plain teaching of Scripture that the work of Christ on the cross seemingly ignored or distorted? I don’t understand the connection between these indulgences and the grace offered through Jesus Christ. To me, this is a clear indication that the believer carries NO PENALTY of sin. Period. As Martin Luther would say, I would betray my conscience if I believed anything otherwise.


18 posted on 07/18/2013 8:42:17 AM PDT by Arkansas Toothpick
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy; Duke of Milan; A.A. Cunningham
It is forbidden to presume knowledge about things that are, by nature, unknowable to us, like the subjective state of another's soul.

It is permitted, and sometimes a great act of charity and justice, to tell somebody the truth about the morally obectionable nature of their observable acts (what they've said or done.)

Ow. I can see us all elbow to elbow making a lurid flambeau, clutching to our bosoms that stinking, smouldering straw.

19 posted on 07/18/2013 8:44:17 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("I said, Pray (Pray!) Ah yeah, we pray! (Pray!) We got to pray just to make it today." MC Hammer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o
Did the title say Catholics were going to hell?

That's what the sentence says. Catholics can't "get out of" something unless they're already in it.

20 posted on 07/18/2013 8:45:22 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy
Are you familiar with this sort of usage?

I think most of us understand how this works.
21 posted on 07/18/2013 9:07:56 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("I said, Pray (Pray!) Ah yeah, we pray! (Pray!) We got to pray just to make it today." MC Hammer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o
Are you familiar with this sort of usage? ... I think most of us understand how this works.

"I saved my dog from choking to death on a chicken bone last week."
"Wow - you're a hero! How'd you do that?"
"I didn't give him any chicken bones."

22 posted on 07/18/2013 9:54:25 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy
YOU UNDERSTAND THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION!!

I KNEW A CALVINIST COULD DO THAT.` ` ` ` I JUST KNEW IT!!!!

Man, this turned into an exciting day for me.

23 posted on 07/18/2013 10:03:46 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("I said, Pray (Pray!) Ah yeah, we pray! (Pray!) We got to pray just to make it today." MC Hammer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

If you’re in hell, as the slightly askew headline could be understood, how would you “retweet”? Although I’m sure there must be iPods and Smartphones in Hell, because they certainly make my life seem like it ...


24 posted on 07/18/2013 10:10:45 AM PDT by Tax-chick (No pun intended, no punishment ... If I offended you, you needed it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o
YOU UNDERSTAND THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION!! I KNEW A CALVINIST COULD DO THAT.` ` ` ` I JUST KNEW IT!!!!

Uhhh....erm...OK. So...ahem....Mary was sinless because her parents didn't feed her any chicken bones?

25 posted on 07/18/2013 10:38:27 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick
If you’re in hell, as the slightly askew headline could be understood, how would you “retweet”? Although I’m sure there must be iPods and Smartphones in Hell, because they certainly make my life seem like it ...

In Hell, all the Apple products are older models with cracked screens, batteries that won't hold a charge, and no extended service plans.

26 posted on 07/18/2013 10:40:31 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy

... and you're capable of the apt metaphor, too. (Still beaming at you.)

If you understand the symbol of "chicken bones" (mutatis mutandis) as a type or figure of something your parents might pass on to you that would cause you inevitably to choke, sicken and die; and then, understand the Sovereign Lord (imagined as a celestial Colonel Saunders) (who knew what was going to happen from before the foundation of the world) set things up so this li'l baby would NOT get the chicken bones...

...and so the li'l baby grows up to say "My spirit rejoices in God (metaphorically, Colonel Saunders) my Savior, because He who is Mighty has done great things for me..."

You see, she has a Savior who saved her from choking on chicken bones, by making sure she didn't get any of the chicken bones in the first place.

You'll have to work out the proper Calvinist schema about Hot Wings, Extra Crispy, Cole Slaw and Biscuits on your own. I feel sure they're somewhere in the five Books of Moses...

Check Genesis under "Original Recipe".


27 posted on 07/18/2013 11:03:27 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Finger-lickin good.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: A.A. Cunningham; Duke of Milan

"Your particular judgment is going to be a very unpleasant experience. You had better be prepared."

Geez, you guys. Do you have to share pillow talk and swap spit in public?

Get a room.

28 posted on 07/18/2013 11:35:18 AM PDT by BlueDragon (pssst. Elvis never left the building. pass it on...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy

But like Timex watches, they take a licking and keep on ticking? Wait a minute, not like a Colonel Sanders uh, er "licking".

To many metaphors flying around. Must_pray_to_immaculate_ (blood eating chicken heart?) for deliverance?

Just because I understand the various versions of chicken heart stories, doesn't mean I believe the red pulsating clearance light on top of the water tower is one of them.

29 posted on 07/18/2013 11:43:32 AM PDT by BlueDragon (pssst. Elvis never left the building. pass it on...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: BlueDragon
To many metaphors flying around. Must_pray_to_immaculate_ (blood eating chicken heart?) for deliverance?

KFC may be serving up Boneless Marys, but Chik Fil-A has them beat:
NUGGET OF JESUS [Sacred Heart of Jesus appears as a Chik-Fil-A Chicken Nugget]

A peculiar item has been spotted on eBay, a chicken nugget in the shape of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. The Sacred Heart for many Catholics represents Jesus’ love for humanity. It is often used to symbolize the love and admiration that one has for Christ.

The heart shaped piece of processed chicken was discovered by the daughter of a nurse in a Chick-Fil-A nugget pack. The mother, who ironically works in the Cardiac division of an Iowa City hospital has put the item up for auction on eBay in order to help pay off her student loan debt. There is no documentation with the nugget to prove its origin, not even a receipt of purchase, but the seller insures all interested parties that it is in fact made of chicken and purchased from Chick-Fil-A. However, it is hard to believe that the seller can actually know that it is made from chicken.


30 posted on 07/18/2013 12:03:01 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy
oh good gravy. I should have known you would have had a related link all ready to go. lol

Maybe we can get 'em started on the meme that we are BOTH "mods" (sans vespa scooters) and we are one and the same person, too. As we are both us (I mean just me myself and I) also several other people around here, including some of the FRoman Catholics who are such [expletives deleted] they make that "church" look bad.

We are I am sneaky that way.

31 posted on 07/18/2013 12:41:27 PM PDT by BlueDragon (ability to delete portions of my own comments --proves I'm a Mod. woops. did I say that out loud?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: A.A. Cunningham

That passage has nothing to do with purgatory, in my very learned opinion.


32 posted on 07/18/2013 2:42:47 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o; All

“It has to do with a man whose “works” were kind of a mixed bag, but who - in the Day of the Lord — is purified of the worthless stuff, which is burnt; he himself is saved, but only as through fire.”


A rather depraved sort of conclusion, since it supposes that a man is able to add to the work of God in meriting heaven, when salvation is by grace without the working of the law.

Rom_11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

How does it follow then, that after death you can merit heaven after going through suffering, as if your suffering can merit heaven for you because the suffering of Christ was imperfect?

As to this particular passage, it says nothing about the man being burned at all, which in your fantasy is the case. It is his work which is burned, and so we can understand this of his false notions, the hay and stubble he built upon a truly good foundation, which will be exposed and removed in the great day, “yet so as by fire,” with great difficulty, as if saved from a burning house.


33 posted on 07/18/2013 2:54:45 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
#7
34 posted on 07/18/2013 2:59:12 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("See something, say something.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

“#7”

... and your point?


35 posted on 07/18/2013 3:03:06 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

That’s what I mean.


36 posted on 07/18/2013 3:03:37 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("See something, say something.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

There’s nothing in that link, my own post even from another thread, that even discusses anything even near to purgatory.


37 posted on 07/18/2013 3:06:34 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

Why doesnt the Pope hand out plenary indulgences out to every Catholic once a week?


38 posted on 07/18/2013 7:23:05 PM PDT by bkaycee (John 3:16)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

“What to do? What to do?” (V.I.Lenin)


39 posted on 07/18/2013 7:24:29 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bkaycee

I guess you’d have to ask him, wouldn’t you?


40 posted on 07/19/2013 5:14:45 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("See something, say something.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: BlueDragon

You’ll probably be surprised by this, but I agree. Attacks like that from either side is wrong.


41 posted on 07/19/2013 2:59:43 PM PDT by piusv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson