Skip to comments.Pope Francis distinguishes between homosexual orientation, gay lobby
Posted on 07/29/2013 8:51:24 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Pope Francis has said that he does not judge homosexuals, including homosexual priests. If they accept the Lord and have good will, who am I to judge them? the Pope said.
The Pope added that a homosexual orientation is not the problem. He called for charitable treatment of homosexuals, saying that they should not be marginalized.
The Popes remarks-- made during a long and candid exchange with reporters who accompanied him on his return flight to Rome after a visit to Brazil for World Youth Daywere widely interpreted by reporters as an acceptance of homosexuals in the Catholic priesthood. But in fact the Popes comments were addressed to different questions.
The Pope had been answering questions from reporters on two sensitive topics: the reported existence of a gay lobby at the Vatican, and reports that the newly appointed prelate of the Vatican bank, Msgr. Battista Ricca, had been involved in past homosexual scandals.
The Pope said that although there have been many reports about a gay lobby, there is no clearly identifiable group. He joked that he had never seen it on a Vatican ID card. In that context, the Pope said that it is important to distinguish between a homosexual orientation and active participation in a lobby within the Vatican. The problem isnt the orientation, he said. The problem is having a lobby.
Regarding Msgr. Ricca, the Pope disclosed that he had conducted an investigation into charges of misconduct, and there was nothing. He went on to say that it is dangerous to probe into the past sins of others. People can sin, repent, and accept Gods forgiveness, the Pope said. The Lord both forgives and forgets. We dont have the right not to forget.
Thus the Pope did not address the issue of whether homosexuals should be ordained to the priesthood. He did not contradict the existing Vatican policy, set forth in a 2005 instruction from the Congregation for Catholic Education, stipulating that men with homosexual tendencies should not be ordained.
Nor did the Pope dismiss concerns about a "gay lobby" at the Vatican. On the contrary Pope Francis acknowledged-- as he has in the past-- that the existence of a lobby is a problem to be addressed.
If only the “orientation” is present, and not the behavior or the self-advertising, then there is nothing to be observed, judged, or objected to.
By the phrase — “If they accept the Lord and have good will”, he probably means those with same sex attractions who nevertheless, accept the admonition that ACTING on this attraction is against the Lord’s will.
If such a person asks the Lord to give him strength to overcome this temptation, he is acting out of “good will.”
Let's say that I know a fellow church member that is attracted to the same sex. He has asked for forgiveness and does not act out his inclinations. Still, I hate him and tell him he's a terrible person. I may even go so far as shunning him and wishing he would get out of the church. Who would be in the wrong?
Then perhps YOU can tell us what the Pope is advocating?
Wow. Were you in my Bible Class yesterday? We covered that exact same passage in a very good class on tolerance and I was also just thinking how applicable that passage is in opposition to what the Pope is saying and doing.
Uh huh. Burn them all at the stake!
RE: The Bible contradicts what the Pope is advocating.
Can you give us more details other than quoting from Leviticus ( because I think Francis agrees with Leviticus ).
It doesn’t matter, the Pope said and meant whatever the major media outlets reported he meant in their headlines. And obviously he is the Pope, the head priest of the rider of the beast-pagan idolater edifice of non-bible believing Babylonian mystery religionists and user of the word ‘gay.’
Obviously the Catholic Church is ready to embrace the homo-agenda immediately and ‘gay marriage’ soon. But of course they will first inevitably accept things like female clergy, birth control within marriage, and divorce and remarriage like every one of those wacko Christian groups that have accepted ‘gay marriage’ so far.
The divorce and remarriage thing is a good first step for the Church. Otherwise the gays won’t be able to get remarried after they get divorced, I mean who ever heard of a Christian group accepting ‘gay marriage’ with no possibility of gay divorce and remarriage?! The very idea.
Then perhps YOU can tell us what the Pope is advocating?
Why should I? All I am called to do is to contrast the deeds and actions of anyone with the standards of the Bible.
Its very simple. And when we do that - we let the Bible do the judging.
RE: If only the orientation is present, and not the behavior or the self-advertising, then there is nothing to be observed, judged, or objected to.
I think you’ve summarized what I think Francis is saying very well.
RE: All I am called to do is to contrast the deeds and actions of anyone with the standards of the Bible.
Well, there you go, this Pope agrees with you then. I don’t think he advocates the deed or actions that are opposed to the standards of the Bible.
The Pope talked himself into a circle. He should have just plainly said “God hates the sin, not the sinner”
Can you give us more details ....
Again with someone who thinks I could explain why the Pope is advocating things in conflict with the Bible?
Ask the Pope. Not me.
The Pope talked himself into a circle. He should have just plainly said God hates the sin, not the sinner
there we have it.
overly complex answers are not needed unless one is fearful that one’s words will offend.
the pope is not without...P.C.
RE: Ask the Pope. Not me.
I don’t have to ask him. I ASSUME that this is his position since this has been the teaching of their church.
Someone above said it correctly ( I cut and paste his post ):
Homosexual tendencies are not a sin - its the homosexual act that the Roman Catholic church has issue with.
Priests are supposed to be celibate anyway - so maintaining their celibacy in the face of their homo/hetero sexual inclinations IS THE RULE.
“Given, this, if we ban priests with gay orientation, why shouldnt we ban priests with straight orientations? after all, both are subject to temptations, albeit different types.”
“I dont think ....”
Is that all you do is post what you do and do not think?
I don’t care what you think. I don’t care what the Pope thinks. I’m making things very simple here. And I repeat my simple message:
The Bible is clear and the Bible is the standard for how we live and act.
So when you or I or even the Pope thinks something in conflict with fundamental Biblical standards... WHO CARES?
RE: Homosexual tendencies are not a sin - its the homosexual act that the RC church has issue with.
In short — Love the sinner, hate the sin.
Amen. The Lord has spoken.
RE: The Bible is clear and the Bible is the standard for how we live and act.
Well this begs the question -— where in the Pope’s statement did he imply that the Bible ISN’T the standard, or that he disagrees with it?