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Pope Francis distinguishes between homosexual orientation, gay lobby
Catholic Culture ^ | 07/29/2013

Posted on 07/29/2013 8:51:24 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

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1 posted on 07/29/2013 8:51:24 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

SOURCE: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/495314/20130729/pope-francis-gay-homosexual-brazil-marriage-church.htm

Pope Francis said repentant gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.

Despite the softer approach towards gay priests, Francis sided with Benedict’s hard line over gay marriage.

Even before being elected in March, Francis had spoken out strongly against gay marriage, denouncing it in 2010 as “an attempt to destroy God’s plan”.

Earlier this month, Francis and Benedict penned an unprecedented joint encyclical restating the Catholic Church’s position on marriage, saying it should be a “stable union of man and woman.”

“The church has a clear stance on the subject and it was important to speak positively in Brazil,” Francis told journalists who asked him why the issue of homosexuality wasn’t raised during his trip to Rio.


2 posted on 07/29/2013 8:52:43 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Pope Francis also spoke very bluntly and directly about the issues of gay marriage and abortion, affirming that both were in direct opposition to biblical teachings. When pushed on the issues he simply said, “You know perfectly the position of the Church.”

Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/pope-francis-will-not-judge-priests-for-sexual-orientation-reaffirms-catholic-stance-on-homosexuality-women-abortion-and-sin-101064/#34LrTVVV9bVRv11e.99


3 posted on 07/29/2013 8:54:40 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

SOURCE: http://www.christianpost.com/news/pope-francis-will-not-judge-priests-for-sexual-orientation-reaffirms-catholic-stance-on-homosexuality-women-abortion-and-sin-101064/

The Roman Catholic leader was also asked about the role of women in the Church. On that issue the pope said that women should be given a bigger role to play, however, specifically on the ordination of women in the Catholic Church, he affirmed that the “door is closed” on that issue.


4 posted on 07/29/2013 8:55:56 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

“He went on to say that it is “dangerous” to probe into the past sins of others. People can sin, repent, and accept God’s forgiveness, the Pope said. “The Lord both forgives and forgets. We don’t have the right not to forget.” “

Is this thinking why the child molesting has gone on so long within the Catholic Church.

A priest does 100 Hail Marys , asks for forgiveness, and then is sent to another parish to molest again??

Can’t wait to hear how long the Church knew about the Transvestite Priest
http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/22/meth-priest-suspended-for-transvestite-rectory-sex/

He had been a secretary to Egan who covered up a lot of abuse


5 posted on 07/29/2013 9:02:26 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: SeekAndFind

He doesn’t have a problem with gay priests? Really?

His opinion is not in line with the Bible.


6 posted on 07/29/2013 9:03:16 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: kingpins10

I think he distinguishes between those with a gay orientation who nevertheless are able to practice self-control and those who don’t practice self-control.

He believes (I think), that gay or straight, priests are all subject to sexual temptations ( same or opposite sex). It depends on how one controls the temptation.


7 posted on 07/29/2013 9:06:08 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Are you making excuses for him? Lol

Homosexuality is a sin and an abomination to The Lord. He is who we will all answer to, not a pope.


8 posted on 07/29/2013 9:07:32 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: kingpins10

I’m not making excuses for him, just clarifying what I think he means.

I don’t believe Pope Francis is saying Homosexuality ( as in the ACT of homosexuality ) is not sin.

Francis is saying that everyone is tempted, some towards the same sex, and some towards the opposite sex.

You can be tempted but you should NOT give in to the temptation.


9 posted on 07/29/2013 9:10:48 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: kingpins10
His opinion is not in line with the Bible.

The Froman Catholic response to this is basically "Go sit in the corner and color. We are Rome, we are 100% correct in all we do!"

10 posted on 07/29/2013 9:12:57 AM PDT by Gamecock (Member: NAACAC)
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To: SeekAndFind

Based on his words, he sees nothing wrong with a homosexual priest.


11 posted on 07/29/2013 9:14:05 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: SeekAndFind

Sexual Temptation is covered under the Seven Deadly Sins and you can’t procreate man to man.


12 posted on 07/29/2013 9:14:21 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: kingpins10

RE: Based on his words, he sees nothing wrong with a homosexual priest.

Yes, that’s what I gather also.

His reasoning seems to be this — if you say there is a danger of sexual abuse from homosexual priests, then the same danger exists for heterosexual priests as well.

Given, this, if we ban priests with gay orientation, why shouldn’t we ban priests with straight orientations? after all, both are subject to temptations, albeit different types.

So, his emphasis is not on the orientation, but on self-control in light of temptation.


13 posted on 07/29/2013 9:20:17 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: kingpins10

I thnk he has a oroblem with anyone having sex outside of marriage, and marriage is still defined as between a man and a woman in the Cathloc church.

I agree wizth him. It’s kind of like alcoholics. The problem isn’t that they are alcoholics. The problem is when they start drinking.


14 posted on 07/29/2013 9:25:46 AM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: SeekAndFind

The devil is busy, his time is short.


15 posted on 07/29/2013 9:29:17 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray/Penance. Isa 5:18-21,10:1-3 "Tempus faciendi, Domine, dissipaverunt legem tuam")
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To: SeekAndFind
Given, this, if we ban priests with gay orientation, why shouldn’t we ban priests with straight orientations? after all, both are subject to temptations, albeit different types.

Holy Cow. (Religious forum - so I'll keep this clean.

Did you really just say this? (Repeated for emphasis)

Given, this, if we ban priests with gay orientation, why shouldn’t we ban priests with straight orientations? after all, both are subject to temptations, albeit different types.

FRiend, you really ought not to post things like this. You are doing your side a great deal of harm.

Seriously.

16 posted on 07/29/2013 9:30:13 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: kingpins10

Homosexual tendencies are not a sin - it’s the homosexual act that the RC church has issue with.

Priests are supposed to be celibate anyway - so maintaining their celibacy in the face of their homo/hetero sexual inclinations is the rule.


17 posted on 07/29/2013 9:30:48 AM PDT by avkillick
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To: Responsibility2nd

RE: FRiend, you really ought not to post things like this. You are doing your side a great deal of harm.

Look, I am not ENDORSING this view, I am simply articulating what I believe Francis thinks.

Now, if you seriously believe there’s something wrong with that argument, stop focusing on ME. Attack the argument.


18 posted on 07/29/2013 9:32:31 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind; All
“If they accept the Lord and have good will, who am I to judge them?” the Pope said.

It's not clear to me how the Pope is defining homosexuality.

And I respectfully disagree with the Pope about judging people. Chewing out a Corinthian church for tolerating incest in 1 Corinthians 5, Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 that church members are to judge other members, not those outside the church.

19 posted on 07/29/2013 9:39:02 AM PDT by Amendment10
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To: SeekAndFind

I,I,I....

Sorry. Hard not to focus on you when all you post about is “what I think he thinks.”

“Attack the Argument”? Easy. The Bible contradicts what the Pope is advocating.

End. Of. Argument.


20 posted on 07/29/2013 9:42:48 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: SeekAndFind

If only the “orientation” is present, and not the behavior or the self-advertising, then there is nothing to be observed, judged, or objected to.


21 posted on 07/29/2013 9:43:06 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: Amendment10

By the phrase — “If they accept the Lord and have good will”, he probably means those with same sex attractions who nevertheless, accept the admonition that ACTING on this attraction is against the Lord’s will.

If such a person asks the Lord to give him strength to overcome this temptation, he is acting out of “good will.”


22 posted on 07/29/2013 9:44:49 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: avkillick
Exactly. We all have sinful inclinations which are not in themselves, sins. It's the committing the sin that's wrong. Very simple.

Let's say that I know a fellow church member that is attracted to the same sex. He has asked for forgiveness and does not act out his inclinations. Still, I hate him and tell him he's a terrible person. I may even go so far as shunning him and wishing he would get out of the church. Who would be in the wrong?

23 posted on 07/29/2013 9:44:56 AM PDT by grimalkin (The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man. -G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Oh Good!

Then perhps YOU can tell us what the Pope is advocating?


24 posted on 07/29/2013 9:45:06 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: Amendment10

Wow. Were you in my Bible Class yesterday? We covered that exact same passage in a very good class on tolerance and I was also just thinking how applicable that passage is in opposition to what the Pope is saying and doing.

Great point.


25 posted on 07/29/2013 9:45:26 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Uh huh. Burn them all at the stake!


26 posted on 07/29/2013 9:46:12 AM PDT by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: Responsibility2nd

RE: The Bible contradicts what the Pope is advocating.

Can you give us more details other than quoting from Leviticus ( because I think Francis agrees with Leviticus ).


27 posted on 07/29/2013 9:46:24 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

It doesn’t matter, the Pope said and meant whatever the major media outlets reported he meant in their headlines. And obviously he is the Pope, the head priest of the rider of the beast-pagan idolater edifice of non-bible believing Babylonian mystery religionists and user of the word ‘gay.’

Obviously the Catholic Church is ready to embrace the homo-agenda immediately and ‘gay marriage’ soon. But of course they will first inevitably accept things like female clergy, birth control within marriage, and divorce and remarriage like every one of those wacko Christian groups that have accepted ‘gay marriage’ so far.

The divorce and remarriage thing is a good first step for the Church. Otherwise the gays won’t be able to get remarried after they get divorced, I mean who ever heard of a Christian group accepting ‘gay marriage’ with no possibility of gay divorce and remarriage?! The very idea.

Obviously.

Freegards


28 posted on 07/29/2013 9:47:02 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: G Larry

Then perhps YOU can tell us what the Pope is advocating?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Why should I? All I am called to do is to contrast the deeds and actions of anyone with the standards of the Bible.

Its very simple. And when we do that - we let the Bible do the judging.


29 posted on 07/29/2013 9:47:48 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: G Larry

RE: If only the “orientation” is present, and not the behavior or the self-advertising, then there is nothing to be observed, judged, or objected to.

I think you’ve summarized what I think Francis is saying very well.


30 posted on 07/29/2013 9:48:07 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: Responsibility2nd

RE: All I am called to do is to contrast the deeds and actions of anyone with the standards of the Bible.

Well, there you go, this Pope agrees with you then. I don’t think he advocates the deed or actions that are opposed to the standards of the Bible.


31 posted on 07/29/2013 9:49:33 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

The Pope talked himself into a circle. He should have just plainly said “God hates the sin, not the sinner”


32 posted on 07/29/2013 9:50:53 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: SeekAndFind

Can you give us more details ....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Again with someone who thinks I could explain why the Pope is advocating things in conflict with the Bible?

Ask the Pope. Not me.


33 posted on 07/29/2013 9:52:04 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: GeronL

Survey Sez:

The Pope talked himself into a circle. He should have just plainly said “God hates the sin, not the sinner”

there we have it.

overly complex answers are not needed unless one is fearful that one’s words will offend.

the pope is not without...P.C.


34 posted on 07/29/2013 9:53:30 AM PDT by MeshugeMikey (Macabre Crumpet of Caucasian Ethnicity)
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To: Responsibility2nd

RE: Ask the Pope. Not me.

I don’t have to ask him. I ASSUME that this is his position since this has been the teaching of their church.

Someone above said it correctly ( I cut and paste his post ):

Homosexual tendencies are not a sin - it’s the homosexual act that the Roman Catholic church has issue with.

Priests are supposed to be celibate anyway - so maintaining their celibacy in the face of their homo/hetero sexual inclinations IS THE RULE.


35 posted on 07/29/2013 9:55:22 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

“Given, this, if we ban priests with gay orientation, why shouldn’t we ban priests with straight orientations? after all, both are subject to temptations, albeit different types.”

Seriously? Wow.


36 posted on 07/29/2013 9:57:07 AM PDT by kingpins10
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To: SeekAndFind

“I don’t think ....”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Is that all you do is post what you do and do not think?

I don’t care what you think. I don’t care what the Pope thinks. I’m making things very simple here. And I repeat my simple message:

The Bible is clear and the Bible is the standard for how we live and act.

So when you or I or even the Pope thinks something in conflict with fundamental Biblical standards... WHO CARES?


37 posted on 07/29/2013 9:57:16 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: avkillick

RE: Homosexual tendencies are not a sin - it’s the homosexual act that the RC church has issue with.

In short — Love the sinner, hate the sin.


38 posted on 07/29/2013 9:57:32 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: kingpins10

Amen. The Lord has spoken.


39 posted on 07/29/2013 9:58:13 AM PDT by Viennacon
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To: Responsibility2nd

RE: The Bible is clear and the Bible is the standard for how we live and act.

Well this begs the question -— where in the Pope’s statement did he imply that the Bible ISN’T the standard, or that he disagrees with it?


40 posted on 07/29/2013 9:58:43 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind; All
If such a person asks the Lord to give him strength to overcome this temptation, he is acting out of “good will.”

I hope that's what he means.

41 posted on 07/29/2013 9:59:38 AM PDT by Amendment10
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To: Responsibility2nd
"The Bible is clear and the Bible is the standard for how we live and act."

The Bible also says we should kill witches and not eat bacon. I take it you follow those instructions too?

42 posted on 07/29/2013 10:04:02 AM PDT by mlo
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To: kingpins10

That’s what the pope said, God judges.

Like I tell those who act up in parishes, I can’t sleep with Manny, Moe and Jack and neither can you. We all can have lustful thoughts, but not act on them.

As Christ said, it was said not to commit adultery, he said don’t even look at another with lust.

Or check yourself and keep away from occasions of sin.

If i’m in treatment for being a coke addict, I wouldn’t go to a party with friends who do drugs, or associate with those who do. A lot of addicts slip up by thinking they have everything in control. They may think so, but that’s an old trick of the devil... making you think you’re in control, when God is. After, he presses the rewind button re: stop struggling, you’ll never kick this or that sin; Where God presses you to get on your knees and repent.

I’m not having it. I don’t coddle or go along to get along with their lifestyle... I let them know, if they still want to make that choice on the way to hell, they can’t say they weren’t told. I lost a lot of acquaintances over this, oh well. Some admit they have no control over themselves. If I can stay celibate, so can they. All I can do is pray for them and speak on it. The rest is the Lord’s.

re: AP reporter

But seriously, between you, I and other posters. I tweeted her to ask if she was on the plane, had the transcript/all Q and A and/or video. No answer as of yet.

She had a Miami Herald link up, which is odd. Now she is the AP reporter from Italy.

I went to the main AP feed, and the version is slightly different and the way it’s written doesn’t make sense.

He’s real upset over the embezzling Monsignor in one version, but okay with this? Doesn’t wash. I knew those that get AP feeds tend to switch the words around to their liking (which I don’t get).

Check it out.

MH version:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/29/v-fullstory/3528751/pope-says-he-wont-judge-gay-priests.html

AP site version/

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_VATICAN_POPE?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-29-11-17-17


43 posted on 07/29/2013 10:04:27 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray/Penance. Isa 5:18-21,10:1-3 "Tempus faciendi, Domine, dissipaverunt legem tuam")
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To: SeekAndFind

Off topic: Did you see this?

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/07/morsi-supporters-firebomb-coptic-churches-in-egypt/


44 posted on 07/29/2013 10:05:08 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray/Penance. Isa 5:18-21,10:1-3 "Tempus faciendi, Domine, dissipaverunt legem tuam")
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To: Responsibility2nd; All
Were you in my Bible Class yesterday?

We evidently listen to the same Holy Spirit.

45 posted on 07/29/2013 10:06:13 AM PDT by Amendment10
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To: mlo; Responsibility2nd
The Bible also says we should kill witches and not eat bacon. I take it you follow those instructions too?

The commands God gave to Ancient Israel are normally divided into three kinds: moral, civil and ceremonial. This question and this question have more information. This one, and any of the others invoking the death penalty, certainly fall into the 'civil' category. The state of Israel (loosely speaking) would have the authority to impose the death penalty for a variety of offences, as many states do now.

Christians are no longer expected to obey "the law", which includes this kind of law, though most would say that they are expected to follow the 'moral laws', of which this is not one. That's not to say that 'witchcraft' is now OK,and God approves of it, but the authority to punish with a specific penalty doesn't apply to Christians in these times.

Because 'the state' is given power to punish an offence that does not give a random mob of people the right to harass someone.


46 posted on 07/29/2013 10:12:22 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: Ransomed

?


47 posted on 07/29/2013 10:13:06 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray/Penance. Isa 5:18-21,10:1-3 "Tempus faciendi, Domine, dissipaverunt legem tuam")
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To: Responsibility2nd

“Why should I?”

Because YOU are the one declaring his “advocacy” wrong.

If only the “orientation” is present, and not the behavior or the self-advertising, then there is nothing to be observed, judged, or objected to.


48 posted on 07/29/2013 10:14:15 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: RummyChick

I just watched a documentary re: Meth in America (I think it was on topdocumentaryfilms.com).

I had no idea how horrible it was. It destroys people in record time.

There was a couple with four kids and the dad talked about how he was raised in the church and he wanted he and his wife to get clean, leave that place and get back in church.

What a terrible struggle.
Many on that program called it evil, of the devil, etc..

The background re: history of meth was interesting. From a Japanese scientist then picked up by a German one. They also stated it was given to kamikazes and Nazis (I have no clue if that’s true). It also was used in asthma inhalers.
Yikes.

When I was stationed on the West Coast it was coming into vogue. I’m sure they use it here in the city, but you never hear about it except in the burbs for some reason. Not even among the bikers in the Village.

Thanks for that story, I knew nothing about it.


49 posted on 07/29/2013 10:26:29 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray/Penance. Isa 5:18-21,10:1-3 "Tempus faciendi, Domine, dissipaverunt legem tuam")
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To: SeekAndFind

I think you are correct in your interpretation of the pope’s words.
Unfortunately, I think that was the prevailing argument during the period of pedophilic priestly repentance and recidivism.
A person of good will can believe and advance that argument, but I’m afraid history shows us the result.


50 posted on 07/29/2013 10:38:52 AM PDT by conejo99
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