Skip to comments.Pope Francis distinguishes between homosexual orientation, gay lobby
Posted on 07/29/2013 8:51:24 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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I saw his sentencing was set for June 25th... I can’t find anything on it.
What I don’t get is, how could he OWN a sex toy and drug paraphernalia shop? And to launder the drug money... he had to be using as well.
BTW, I was told by someone (who was the head of one of the centers they sent priests to for treatment, because I wanted to know why as well), that the church, especially after the summer of love and Vatican II, went to ‘psychiatrists’ and social work types that deal with these situations from the outside world for help. So of course you can guess what their recommendations were. Big mistake. That’s like going to Timothy Leary to help me get my kid off drugs back then.
There were rarely priests who were also psychiatrists.
I’m going to find out what happened re: sentencing. Will let you know.
I have to pray for him; The Lord takes oaths seriously and I wouldn’t want to be there when he stands before him.
I don't recall bring up mobs. I doubt very much that even most Christians would be in favor of executing people for witchcraft. We don't take that kind of thing seriously any more, and we do like our bacon.
Those were only two examples. Others can be pulled out that are just as silly in a modern context. If we don't take some biblical injunctions seriously any longer why should we take others that come out of the same pages?
Does the Bible condemn homosexuality? No doubt about it, the Old Testament is very clear. But the Old Testament is just clearly not the guide to life today, even for devout Christians.
Everyone here should please remember how sloppy and shallow the media generally is on matters of religion and faith. What language was he speaking in? Did they get the words correct? I’ve seen some mentions of “homosexuality” and the “Bible” here, but PRECISION is required on this matter. The homosexual orientation is NOT sinful. Homosexual acts are sinful. An alcoholic’s desire to drink isn’t sinful. But if he does drink and acts out, a discussion of sin comes in. I admit that I wait for some clarification of the Pope’s words because church discipline says only mature men with self-control are to be admitted to the priesthood. If it turns out that the media’s translation and interpretation of the Pope’s words is sloppy and incorrect, don’t be surprised.
RE: Does the Bible condemn homosexuality? No doubt about it, the Old Testament is very clear. But the Old Testament is just clearly not the guide to life today, even for devout Christians.
1) The apostle Paul reiterates the condemnation in Romans Chapter 1.
2) Homosexuality is a MORAL behavior, therefore, condemnation against the act is not rescinded in the New Testament.
3) The homosexual act has been condemned as sinful by the church from the first century onwards.
I didn’t say anything about the church’s opinion, nor the specific rationale used to justify thier conclusions.
The point is that people pick and choose which biblical convictions they accept. We don’t get our morality from the Bible, we accept the parts of the Bible that agree with our morality. It’s not just homosexuality and withcraft and food laws.
"All I am called to do is to contrast the deeds and actions of anyone with the standards of the Bible."
In keeping with that point of view, let's compare that view itself to what Christ said:
Matthew 5:38 You have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.
Matthew 5:39 But I say to you not to resist evil :
but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other :
Matthew 5:40 And if a man will contend with thee in judgment, and take away thy coat, let go thy cloak also unto him.
Matthew 5:41 And whosoever will force thee one mile, go with him other two.
Matthew 5:42 Give to him that asketh of thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not away.
People can reach any conclusion they like but personally I consider Jesus Christ to be the final authority. Of course, there are a lot of people who people pick and choose to make it easy on themselves and some even throw out portions they don't like. To each his own, as they say, but I always remember the part of working out my Salvation with fear and trembling instead of trying to slide past what I don't like.
Christ, Matthew, and the Pope, are of one accord on this:
If only the temptation is present, and not the behavior or the self-advertising, then there is nothing to be observed, judged, or objected to.
Having the temptation in front of you is neither a deed or an action.
For context, you may benefit from the full quote:
“But I would like to add one more thing: I see that very often in the Church, there is a tendency to seek out sins committed in youth, and make them public.
I am not speaking about crimes: the abuse of minors is a crime.
But if a layperson, or a priest, or a nun, has sinned, the Lord forgives and forgets. And this is important the Lord forgets. We do not have the right to not forget.
St. Peter committed one of the most serious sins, apostasy, and yet they made him Pope.
Much is written about the gay lobby but I haven’t found gay identity cards in the Vatican, although they say they exist.
I think that when we encounter a gay person, we must distinguish the fact of being gay from that of forming part of a lobby, as not all lobbies are good. That is the problem.
But if a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?
I also wonder how many of the folks who don't understand believe they're sinning when they watch the soft porn in the sports they love and in the movies they watch numerous times.
Once someone yields to the temptation, it's a sin. The heart of the problem is, though, that ordaining someone who admits to constantly being tempted in a way that leads to pedophilia is putting them in the very position they would find most difficult to resist. It's almost exclusively male queers who molest children.
That's why such folks shouldn't be ordained to begin with any more than celibate heterosexual males should be ordained then placed in the role of chaplains at strip joints and live sex shows.
I have read the entire quote. I have no argument with what the Pope had to say.