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Pope Francis distinguishes between homosexual orientation, gay lobby
Catholic Culture ^ | 07/29/2013

Posted on 07/29/2013 8:51:24 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

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To: SeekAndFind; All
If such a person asks the Lord to give him strength to overcome this temptation, he is acting out of “good will.”

I hope that's what he means.

41 posted on 07/29/2013 9:59:38 AM PDT by Amendment10
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To: Responsibility2nd
"The Bible is clear and the Bible is the standard for how we live and act."

The Bible also says we should kill witches and not eat bacon. I take it you follow those instructions too?

42 posted on 07/29/2013 10:04:02 AM PDT by mlo
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To: kingpins10

That’s what the pope said, God judges.

Like I tell those who act up in parishes, I can’t sleep with Manny, Moe and Jack and neither can you. We all can have lustful thoughts, but not act on them.

As Christ said, it was said not to commit adultery, he said don’t even look at another with lust.

Or check yourself and keep away from occasions of sin.

If i’m in treatment for being a coke addict, I wouldn’t go to a party with friends who do drugs, or associate with those who do. A lot of addicts slip up by thinking they have everything in control. They may think so, but that’s an old trick of the devil... making you think you’re in control, when God is. After, he presses the rewind button re: stop struggling, you’ll never kick this or that sin; Where God presses you to get on your knees and repent.

I’m not having it. I don’t coddle or go along to get along with their lifestyle... I let them know, if they still want to make that choice on the way to hell, they can’t say they weren’t told. I lost a lot of acquaintances over this, oh well. Some admit they have no control over themselves. If I can stay celibate, so can they. All I can do is pray for them and speak on it. The rest is the Lord’s.

re: AP reporter

But seriously, between you, I and other posters. I tweeted her to ask if she was on the plane, had the transcript/all Q and A and/or video. No answer as of yet.

She had a Miami Herald link up, which is odd. Now she is the AP reporter from Italy.

I went to the main AP feed, and the version is slightly different and the way it’s written doesn’t make sense.

He’s real upset over the embezzling Monsignor in one version, but okay with this? Doesn’t wash. I knew those that get AP feeds tend to switch the words around to their liking (which I don’t get).

Check it out.

MH version:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/29/v-fullstory/3528751/pope-says-he-wont-judge-gay-priests.html

AP site version/

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_VATICAN_POPE?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-29-11-17-17


43 posted on 07/29/2013 10:04:27 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray/Penance. Isa 5:18-21,10:1-3 "Tempus faciendi, Domine, dissipaverunt legem tuam")
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To: SeekAndFind

Off topic: Did you see this?

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/07/morsi-supporters-firebomb-coptic-churches-in-egypt/


44 posted on 07/29/2013 10:05:08 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray/Penance. Isa 5:18-21,10:1-3 "Tempus faciendi, Domine, dissipaverunt legem tuam")
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To: Responsibility2nd; All
Were you in my Bible Class yesterday?

We evidently listen to the same Holy Spirit.

45 posted on 07/29/2013 10:06:13 AM PDT by Amendment10
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To: mlo; Responsibility2nd
The Bible also says we should kill witches and not eat bacon. I take it you follow those instructions too?

The commands God gave to Ancient Israel are normally divided into three kinds: moral, civil and ceremonial. This question and this question have more information. This one, and any of the others invoking the death penalty, certainly fall into the 'civil' category. The state of Israel (loosely speaking) would have the authority to impose the death penalty for a variety of offences, as many states do now.

Christians are no longer expected to obey "the law", which includes this kind of law, though most would say that they are expected to follow the 'moral laws', of which this is not one. That's not to say that 'witchcraft' is now OK,and God approves of it, but the authority to punish with a specific penalty doesn't apply to Christians in these times.

Because 'the state' is given power to punish an offence that does not give a random mob of people the right to harass someone.


46 posted on 07/29/2013 10:12:22 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: Ransomed

?


47 posted on 07/29/2013 10:13:06 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray/Penance. Isa 5:18-21,10:1-3 "Tempus faciendi, Domine, dissipaverunt legem tuam")
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To: Responsibility2nd

“Why should I?”

Because YOU are the one declaring his “advocacy” wrong.

If only the “orientation” is present, and not the behavior or the self-advertising, then there is nothing to be observed, judged, or objected to.


48 posted on 07/29/2013 10:14:15 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: RummyChick

I just watched a documentary re: Meth in America (I think it was on topdocumentaryfilms.com).

I had no idea how horrible it was. It destroys people in record time.

There was a couple with four kids and the dad talked about how he was raised in the church and he wanted he and his wife to get clean, leave that place and get back in church.

What a terrible struggle.
Many on that program called it evil, of the devil, etc..

The background re: history of meth was interesting. From a Japanese scientist then picked up by a German one. They also stated it was given to kamikazes and Nazis (I have no clue if that’s true). It also was used in asthma inhalers.
Yikes.

When I was stationed on the West Coast it was coming into vogue. I’m sure they use it here in the city, but you never hear about it except in the burbs for some reason. Not even among the bikers in the Village.

Thanks for that story, I knew nothing about it.


49 posted on 07/29/2013 10:26:29 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray/Penance. Isa 5:18-21,10:1-3 "Tempus faciendi, Domine, dissipaverunt legem tuam")
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To: SeekAndFind

I think you are correct in your interpretation of the pope’s words.
Unfortunately, I think that was the prevailing argument during the period of pedophilic priestly repentance and recidivism.
A person of good will can believe and advance that argument, but I’m afraid history shows us the result.


50 posted on 07/29/2013 10:38:52 AM PDT by conejo99
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To: RummyChick

I saw his sentencing was set for June 25th... I can’t find anything on it.

What I don’t get is, how could he OWN a sex toy and drug paraphernalia shop? And to launder the drug money... he had to be using as well.

BTW, I was told by someone (who was the head of one of the centers they sent priests to for treatment, because I wanted to know why as well), that the church, especially after the summer of love and Vatican II, went to ‘psychiatrists’ and social work types that deal with these situations from the outside world for help. So of course you can guess what their recommendations were. Big mistake. That’s like going to Timothy Leary to help me get my kid off drugs back then.

There were rarely priests who were also psychiatrists.

I’m going to find out what happened re: sentencing. Will let you know.

I have to pray for him; The Lord takes oaths seriously and I wouldn’t want to be there when he stands before him.


51 posted on 07/29/2013 10:47:46 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray/Penance. Isa 5:18-21,10:1-3 "Tempus faciendi, Domine, dissipaverunt legem tuam")
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To: SeekAndFind
"Because 'the state' is given power to punish an offence that does not give a random mob of people the right to harass someone."

I don't recall bring up mobs. I doubt very much that even most Christians would be in favor of executing people for witchcraft. We don't take that kind of thing seriously any more, and we do like our bacon.

Those were only two examples. Others can be pulled out that are just as silly in a modern context. If we don't take some biblical injunctions seriously any longer why should we take others that come out of the same pages?

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality? No doubt about it, the Old Testament is very clear. But the Old Testament is just clearly not the guide to life today, even for devout Christians.

52 posted on 07/29/2013 10:49:52 AM PDT by mlo
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To: SeekAndFind

Everyone here should please remember how sloppy and shallow the media generally is on matters of religion and faith. What language was he speaking in? Did they get the words correct? I’ve seen some mentions of “homosexuality” and the “Bible” here, but PRECISION is required on this matter. The homosexual orientation is NOT sinful. Homosexual acts are sinful. An alcoholic’s desire to drink isn’t sinful. But if he does drink and acts out, a discussion of sin comes in. I admit that I wait for some clarification of the Pope’s words because church discipline says only mature men with self-control are to be admitted to the priesthood. If it turns out that the media’s translation and interpretation of the Pope’s words is sloppy and incorrect, don’t be surprised.


53 posted on 07/29/2013 11:17:38 AM PDT by MDLION ("Trust in the Lord with all your heart" -Proverbs 3:5)
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To: mlo

RE: Does the Bible condemn homosexuality? No doubt about it, the Old Testament is very clear. But the Old Testament is just clearly not the guide to life today, even for devout Christians.

1) The apostle Paul reiterates the condemnation in Romans Chapter 1.

2) Homosexuality is a MORAL behavior, therefore, condemnation against the act is not rescinded in the New Testament.

3) The homosexual act has been condemned as sinful by the church from the first century onwards.


54 posted on 07/29/2013 11:38:10 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

I didn’t say anything about the church’s opinion, nor the specific rationale used to justify thier conclusions.

The point is that people pick and choose which biblical convictions they accept. We don’t get our morality from the Bible, we accept the parts of the Bible that agree with our morality. It’s not just homosexuality and withcraft and food laws.


55 posted on 07/29/2013 2:30:55 PM PDT by mlo
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To: Responsibility2nd; G Larry
"All I am called to do is to contrast the deeds and actions of anyone with the standards of the Bible."

In keeping with that point of view, let's compare that view itself to what Christ said:

Matthew 5:38 You have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.
Matthew 5:39 But I say to you not to resist evil :
but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other :
Matthew 5:40 And if a man will contend with thee in judgment, and take away thy coat, let go thy cloak also unto him.
Matthew 5:41 And whosoever will force thee one mile, go with him other two.
Matthew 5:42 Give to him that asketh of thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not away.

People can reach any conclusion they like but personally I consider Jesus Christ to be the final authority. Of course, there are a lot of people who people pick and choose to make it easy on themselves and some even throw out portions they don't like. To each his own, as they say, but I always remember the part of working out my Salvation with fear and trembling instead of trying to slide past what I don't like.

56 posted on 07/30/2013 12:25:50 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

Christ, Matthew, and the Pope, are of one accord on this:

If only the temptation is present, and not the behavior or the self-advertising, then there is nothing to be observed, judged, or objected to.

Having the temptation in front of you is neither a deed or an action.


57 posted on 07/30/2013 12:33:01 PM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: Rashputin

For context, you may benefit from the full quote:

“But I would like to add one more thing: I see that very often in the Church, there is a tendency to seek out sins committed in youth, and make them public.

I am not speaking about crimes: the abuse of minors is a crime.

But if a layperson, or a priest, or a nun, has sinned, the Lord forgives and forgets. And this is important – the Lord forgets. We do not have the right to not forget.

… St. Peter committed one of the most serious sins, apostasy, and yet they made him Pope.

Much is written about the gay lobby … but I haven’t found gay identity cards in the Vatican, although they say they exist.

I think that when we encounter a gay person, we must distinguish the fact of being gay from that of forming part of a lobby, as not all lobbies are good. That is the problem.

But if a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?”


58 posted on 07/30/2013 12:49:47 PM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: G Larry
I understand that and agree.

I also wonder how many of the folks who don't understand believe they're sinning when they watch the soft porn in the sports they love and in the movies they watch numerous times.

Once someone yields to the temptation, it's a sin. The heart of the problem is, though, that ordaining someone who admits to constantly being tempted in a way that leads to pedophilia is putting them in the very position they would find most difficult to resist. It's almost exclusively male queers who molest children.

That's why such folks shouldn't be ordained to begin with any more than celibate heterosexual males should be ordained then placed in the role of chaplains at strip joints and live sex shows.

59 posted on 07/30/2013 12:56:00 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: G Larry

I have read the entire quote. I have no argument with what the Pope had to say.


60 posted on 07/30/2013 12:57:46 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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