Pope Francis: The end of ‘fortress Catholicism’?

The Washington Post ^ | August 1, 2013 | John Gehring

[ebb tide]

Something unexpected and extraordinary is happening in the Catholic Church. Pope Francis is rescuing the faith from those who hunker down in gilded cathedrals and wield doctrine like a sword. The edifice of fortress Catholicism – in which progressive Catholics, gay Catholics, Catholic women and others who love the church but often feel marginalized by the hierarchy – is starting to crumble.

[lastchance]

Someone is in for a shock when he learns the Pope is still Catholic.

[Old Yeller]

If you are a Catholic, your duty is to study, understand and obey the Pope. He is your teacher, you are his student.

Wow! Catholics should study the Bible, and let God's word instruct you. But then you wouldn't remain Catholic for long if you did.

[MDLION]

“Some have falsely accused gay priests of causing the clergy sexual abuse crisis.”

79% of the victims in the United States were boys between the ages of 11-16. There’s no homosexual component to such behavior? Virtually all the priest-abusers, if not all were either homosexual or bi-sexual at the least. Most people of the homosexual orientation don’t abuse children but one study found that 25% of them admitted without revealing their identities that they were involved with minors under 18.

“Pope Francis clearly rejects that ugly slander.”

How tiresome it has already become how liberals interpret Francis through a liberal prism. Rarely do they actually quote him, they only interpret what he supposedly really means. Where are these people when Francis’ daily homilies do nothing but preach orthodoxy and give specific examples of sins and faults we need to overcome?

[Jeff Chandler]

you have ZERO authority to challenge the Pope on something you don't like.

I have every authority to challenge the Pope on issues which lie outside the Magisterium of the Church.

Where on earth did you get the idea that every word that comes out of the pope's mouth is infallible teaching? That's an error more common to non-Catholics. But who am I to judge?

[Jeff Chandler]

How tiresome it has already become how liberals interpret Francis through a liberal prism.

It is common on FreeRepublic to use the Leftist media as a reliable source when what they say furthers a Freeper's agenda or sets his hair on fire.

That being said, the Holy Father could use some training in dealing with the press. He's like a bull in a china shop, bless his heart.

[Alas Babylon!]

Um... I’m sorry, but do you know the catechism?

The reason I asked, is it spells out that what ebb tide says is particularly true:

A. Homosexuals are NOT allowed to be priests, and that by practicing homosexual sex they are sinning, and that unless they confess their sins and pay penance—which includes no more homosexual sex, they are no longer Catholics.

B. Islam is not preached against in the catechism, but the catechism states that ONLY through Jesus does any human gain salvation period. So yeah, it we may be asked to respect Islamics, we KNOW that Islam is not—and never will be—the Way. The only Way is through Jesus Christ (hold on to your hat) Our (Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox) Lord.

Those two points are straight from the catechism, which spells out Catholic doctrine.

Catholic doctrine is set by a cooperation or overlap of Bible, Apostolic teaching, and Papal authority.

All 3 must be in agreement.

To make a Doctrinal change which contradicts Scripture and Apostolic teaching (called “Holy Tradition” with a capital “T”) the Pope would essentially have to single handedly re-write portions of the bible AND history.

I believe he is guided by the Holy Spirit, like many true Christian leaders are today. Therefore, he will not even attempt to make such a change. You belief may differ, but that is mine, fully stated.

[Alas Babylon!]

From Peggy Fletcher Stack, of the Salt Lake Tribune:

What a pope can – and can’t — change

If a pope is infallible, why can’t he do anything he wants — like do away with priestly celibacy?

Pope John Paul II, for example, altered the long-standing rule for electing a new pontiff from a two-thirds majority vote to a simple majority. Then Pope Benedict XVI changed it back.

But the presumption of a free-wheeling Holy Father misunderstands both infallibility and the office of the papacy.

"There are theological and logistical limits on the changes [the pope] can make," writes Ann Rodgers of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. "He can’t create new doctrine out of thin air."

Popes are "servants of the church’s settled tradition," papal biographer George Weigel, senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center in Washington, D.C., told Rodgers, "not the tradition’s masters."

The pope can govern the church, and even overhaul the Vatican, Rodgers writes, but he "must answer to its doctrine as a [U.S.] president answers to the Constitution."

As to the pope’s infallibility, it is widely presumed to mean any statement or position he takes. Not so, Rodgers explains.

"In order to make an infallible declaration, a pope must clearly address the worldwide church from the throne of Peter, saying that he is defining a matter of faith or morals that every Catholic is required to assent to," the award-winning journalist writes. "The doctrine at stake must already have strong roots in tradition, have wide support from bishops and the faithful, and be compatible with Scripture."

So far, there have been only two such declarations, both involving the Virgin Mary. The first, issued in 1870, declared that Jesus’ mother was a product of "Immaculate Conception," meaning that she was conceived without original sin. The second, made in 1950, referred to the "Assumption of Mary," that she was taken into heaven rather than lying in a grave.

If the pope reversed traditional teachings on, say, women’s ordination, Rodgers’ sources say, "the bishops and faithful of the world would realize he had fallen into heresy and disregard him."

Peggy Fletcher Stack

[Alas Babylon!]

The pope can govern the church, and even overhaul the Vatican, Rodgers writes, but he "must answer to its doctrine as a [U.S.] president answers to the Constitution."

I'll be the first to say, given that line above, and then reflecting on Obama, that perhaps I shouldn't have used it in my previous post! So let me amend it:

The pope can govern the church, and even overhaul the Vatican, Rodgers writes, but he "must answer to its doctrine as a Republican [U.S.] president answers to the Constitution."

[Bigg Red]

...starting to crumble.

&&&
Oh, these clowns only wish, as they continue to peddle their lies about the Church.

[Bigg Red]

...the Holy Father could use some training in dealing with the press.

&&
Amen to that. Apparently, he does not realize that they are just lying in wait, ready to pounce and distort everything he says.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Talisker: "If you are a Catholic, your duty is to study, understand and obey the Pope. He is your teacher, you are his student."

I dispute this statement. The Pope does of course have the vocation to teach, govern, and sanctify as principal pastor; but so do we all, thanks to our Baptism, and according to our state in life.

However the Pope is not to be thought some sort of all-purpose oracle or master guru. His prudential judgments are not necessarily better than those of other people of similar training and experience; his grip on church administration, discipline and guidance may be very good or poor, depending on his particular talent or lack thereof; and his is in no way an innovator, but rather more a conservator of the faith which has been handed down from the Apostles.

It is good to have a filial loyalty to a good pastor, and our Popes --- in my lifetime --- have been good ones, but not perfect.

Our Savior is Jesus Christ our Lord. The Pope is servus servorum, not dominus dominorum.

[WVKayaker]

1) Catholics are Christians. They are, in fact, THE Christians.

Amy body that follows a man-inspried religion belongs to a cult, not to God! Christians are any people that follow God's Word and seek His face. You can post all your catechism-based drivel but it does not meet the test of FAITH in Christ. Yours is faith in men, singularly a man proclaimed to speak for God, but who is indeed just as fallible as any other man/woman.

Yours is the world's largest cult.

From Dictionary.com:

cult [kuhlt]
noun

1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

idol worship:
noun
the worship of idols; the worship of images that are not God

[FR_addict]

If you are a Catholic, your duty is to study, understand and obey the Pope. He is your teacher, you are his student.

Not all the Popes have been good people. It is okay to disagree with them.

Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.[1]
Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.
Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who “sold” the Papacy
Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy
Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.[2]
Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.[3]
Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors’ reserves on a single ceremony[4]
Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

[Jeff Chandler]

whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.[

I hate it when that happens.

[353FMG]

Catechism of the Catholic Church = Catholic doctrine.

Basta.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Amy body...”

Ah, the government school education is showing.

“...that follows a man-inspried religion belongs to a cult, not to God! Christians are any people that follow God’s Word and seek His face.”

That’s us. We follow His Word - we wrote it in fact under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit - and we seek His face.

“You can post all your catechism-based drivel but it does not meet the test of FAITH in Christ.”

I posted a verse from the Bible that showed St. Paul knew he was a role model. I guess you consider the Bible drivel.

“Yours is faith in men, singularly a man proclaimed to speak for God, but who is indeed just as fallible as any other man/woman.”

No, my faith is in Christ and He sent the Holy Spirit to guide the Church. Your sect latter day, recent, and man-made. It was not founded by Christ.

“Yours is the world’s largest cult.”

No, but the apparent desperation in that silly accusation shows you have no chance of even appearing to know anything.

Also, we don’t worship Mary. She isn’t God. To be a false idol, we would have to worship her as God. We don’t worship her, and we know God is the Trinity.

You have failed. You will continue to do so.

And remember, St. Paul says he’s a role model. You denied scripture.

[RobbyS]

In other words, someone who like those liberal priests who sneered when the Catholic Catechism was published twenty years ago.

[vladimir998]

You can disagree with the pope on some matters. What you can’t do is ignore him on faith and morals.

[WVKayaker]

You wrote:
“Amy body...”
Ah, the government school education is showing.

Typical of somebody with nothing to say. You claim a superiority based on a typographical error. You also claim not to worship Mary. Both of those statements are based on faith in RC's catechism teachings.

You also revert to atypical claims of following Christ, yet you pray to Mary, do you not? Veneration is worship!

Paul's letter to the Corinthians continues:

1 Cor :16 Therefore I urge you to imitate me. 17 For this reason I have sent to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church....

Not quite the way you represent it! But, again, that is atypical...

[MDLION]

The bad Popes strengthen my faith. They show that even if a pope’s personal life is reprehensible, the Lord still won’t allow him to formally teach an error in faith and morals. My faith is also strengthened by Pope Paul VI going against most of the world and probably a majority of Christendom with Humanae Vitae in 1968. Sadly, “a majority” of Christians is now most Christians.