Does The Orthodox Presbyterian Church use the Crucifix?

The Orthodox Presbyterian Church ^

[Gamecock]

Question:

Does the OPC use the crucifix in the church? If not, are they opposed to it?

Answer:

Thank you for your question. The answer is, so far as I know, the crucifix is not used in OPC churches, and here is why:

1.The Second Commandment (Ex. 20:4-6 and Deut. 5:8-10) forbids any picture or image of God, and that would include the Son of God, even as man. At any rate we do not know what Jesus looked like as there is no physical description of him.

2.The crucifix will always end up being an object of worship—regarded as holy. History teaches as much. The bronze serpent Moses made became an object of worship and was not destroyed till King Hezekiah did it (Numbers 21:9; 2 Kings 18:1-5). Roman Catholics have worshipped it, kissed it and held it to have mystical powers.

3.Christ did not remain on the Cross. In the Roman Church Christ is said to be resacrificed each time the Mass is celebrated. This is heresy; he died once for all—Hebrews 9:25-28.

We in the OPC have learned not to trust our idolatry prone hearts not to do the same as others have in the past. Hence, no crucifixes are used. So, yes, we are opposed to it.

[SkyDancer]

In the Protestant churches I’ve been in the Crucifix is empty signifying the risen Christ.

[Campion]

In the Roman Church Christ is said to be resacrificed each time the Mass is celebrated. This is heresy

No, it's a lie.

[Steve_Seattle]

"No, it's a lie."

I'm not sure if you mean that the poster's characterization of the Catholic belief is a lie, or that the belief itself is a lie. I was raised a Catholic in the 50s and 60s, and the phrase "the holy sacrifice of the Mass" was common, so - IN SOME SENSE - the Church believes that the sacrifice of Jesus is recreated during the Mass.

[Owl558]

“No, it’s a lie.”

Protestants bearing false witness against Catholics?? How can that be?? /s

[Owl558]

“...the Church believes that the sacrifice of Jesus is recreated during the Mass.”

At the last supper Jesus uses the bread and wine to represent his body and blood. He then tells us to, “Do this in memory of me.” That is what the Church is celebrating.

[hosepipe]

No, it’s a lie.

---

Of course it isn’t a lie.. the wafer(missa) is said to become Jesus at mass.. You’re eating Jesus (not symbolically)..

Course many/most protestants worship “the Bible” as an idol as well..
Much of christianity has DEVOLVED into idolatry..
I know... they deny it.. but I believe my lying eyes(ears)..

Most I know don’t want to think too deeply about any of this..
I don’t blame them either..

[Steve_Seattle]

"At the last supper Jesus uses the bread and wine to represent his body and blood. He then tells us to, “Do this in memory of me.” That is what the Church is celebrating."

The Church believes that the Eucharist is more than a symbolic memorial, but that something supernatural occurs during the consecration of the communion wafer - what is called "transubstantiation." And the Mass has traditionally been described as a sacrifice, although I am rusty on the theological technicalities behind the belief.

[ArrogantBustard]

I have long wondered where to find this horrible "Roman Church" many protestants apparently love to hate. It sure has a bizarre set of beliefs ... but does it really exist? I have never found any group or institution that actually professes the beliefs these protestants impute to the "Roman Church".

[Campion]

Not “recreated” and not “resacrificed,” but “re-presented”; made present (to us) again, not done over again. Huge difference.

[agere_contra]

I believe it would be closer to say that Christ's sacrifice is 'made present'.

English doesn't really have a word for it - the theological word is 'Anamnesis'.

The important point is that we do not repeat Christ's sacrifice - rather, we enter into or re-encounter Christ's single sacrifice.

Perhaps it will help to think of it this way: during the Mass the time and space that separates us from The Last Supper, the Crucifixion and the Resurrection is no more. We are truly present at Christ's gift of Himself.

[Alex Murphy]

We in the OPC have learned not to trust our idolatry prone hearts not to do the same as others have in the past. Hence, no crucifixes are used. So, yes, we are opposed to it.

Always good to read this again. Thanks for posting it, GC!

[Steve_Seattle]

"I have long wondered where to find this horrible "Roman Church" many protestants apparently love to hate. It sure has a bizarre set of beliefs ... but does it really exist? I have never found any group or institution that actually professes the beliefs these protestants impute to the "Roman Church"."

I don't know which specific beliefs you are referring to, but - in the context of this thread - the Church does believe that the communion wafer and wine are transformed into the literal body and blood of Christ, although it is said that the "accidental" (visible) characteristics of the elements remain unchanged and it is only - so to speak - the "essence" which is transformed. This is called "transubstantiation." And the Church does teach that the Mass is in some sense a sacrifice. I say these things not because I am a rabid Protestant but because I was raised a Catholic and was taught those beliefs over a period of many years.

[hosepipe]

Not “recreated” and not “resacrificed,” but “re-presented”; made present (to us) again, not done over again. Huge difference.

---

Hmmmm interesting take... NAh! its the same thing.. Re-packaged..

[Steve_Seattle]

I personally think the Church went off-track when it tried to say more than that the bread and wine were “blessed” or “consecrated” or even “divinized,” and that the literal “body and blood” language creates more problems than it solves. “This is my body” and “this is my blood” seem to have related but differing symbolic meanings, “body” perhaps representing his divine life and “blood” his sacrificial act. After all, blood is a constituent of the body, not something separate from it.

[ArrogantBustard]

The assertion in question is:

"In the Roman Church Christ is said to be resacrificed each time the Mass is celebrated. "

Again, I know of no organization, group or entity which teaches this. Seriously. Words mean things.

[Steve_Seattle]

"Hmmmm interesting take... NAh! its the same thing.. Re-packaged.."

I have to agree with you that the shift in language cannot hide the fact that there is a claim that the sacrifice is somehow re-enacted during the Mass. The Church is adamant that the Mass is not just a mere memorial, but rather a mystical (unsympathetic critics would say magical) event.

[GipperCT]

Aren’t the terms “Presbyterian” and “Orthodox” a contradiction in terms?

[livius]

It’s all the same sacrifice. You are thinking in terms of time, the Christian Faith thinks in terms of eternity.

I’ve never understood what Protestants have against the Crucifix.

[agere_contra]

I won’t be able to come back to this thread (I’m running a meeting in a minute).

The Church insists that the bread and wine of the mass are literally the Body and Blood of Christ.

Christ’s words at the Last Supper “This is My Body ...” and earlier in His ministry “He who eats My Flesh and Drinks My Blood ...” make it abundantly clear what is meant.

You may remember that passage about “This is a hard saying, and who can bear it?”. Many of Christ’s disciples balked at Christ speaking of his disciples eating and drinking His Body and Blood. But Christ did not change nor modify His speech.

The Eucharist is not symbolic. It absolutely IS the real Body and Blood of Christ, under the forms of Bread and Wine.

When I finally understood this tremendous fact as an adult: I returned to the Church.

Hope this is helpful.