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Pope Francis is unsettling – and dividing – the Catholic right
Religion News Service ^ | Aug 6, 2013 | David Gibson

Posted on 08/07/2013 2:13:17 PM PDT by haffast

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1 posted on 08/07/2013 2:13:18 PM PDT by haffast
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To: haffast

Wrong. They are unsettling and dividing themselves, which they have a legal right to do.


2 posted on 08/07/2013 2:14:19 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Ask me about the Weiner Wager. Support Free Republic!)
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To: haffast

IMO, some on the Catholic Right are obsessed (and I choose that word quite purposefully....obsessed) with relatively insignificant issues (precise times at which we must kneel during Mass, saying “one in being” or “consubstantial”, etc.)

And since whatever is THEIR particular issue, it is obviously the MOST IMPORTANT one from their point of view.

Pope Francis on the other hand is trying to deal, broad brush, with the MOST IMPORTANT issues facing the Church as quickly as possible. The fallout from Pedophile Priest cases, millions of abortions worldwide every year, governments forcing the Church to pay for things that violate it’s core teaching, the rapid falling away of young people, etc.

And I’m with him as we’re at Defcon 1, and frankly I’m a bit disturbed at all the time and energy that went into decisions like “consubstantial”.


3 posted on 08/07/2013 2:28:55 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: haffast

bookmark


4 posted on 08/07/2013 2:33:30 PM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: haffast
PSSST FRANK....'who are you to judge'?

HUH?

You're the guy we PUT IN THERE to judge..

We rely on your JUDGEMENT FOR OUR TEACHING....you get PAID TO JUDGE...' what the hey...

If we needed somebody who is in no position to judge....

We'd put in POPE _________________________(fill in the blank freepers)
5 posted on 08/07/2013 2:33:32 PM PDT by jimsin
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To: haffast

Francis will work unceasingly to put the final nails in the coffin of Christ’s Church on earth.

For the time being the modernists have won. Unfortunately the victors haven’t considered the hereafter.

For the rest of us, who are interested, keep the faith and Father Lasance’s Roman Missal close to your heart. Say your prayers and keep away from the Novus Ordo airplane hangars.


6 posted on 08/07/2013 2:43:43 PM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: haffast
For more than three decades, the Vatican of Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI operated on a version of the conservative maxim, “No enemies to the right.”

The Society of St. Pius X says hi.

7 posted on 08/07/2013 2:46:19 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: IbJensen

“While left-wing theologians were silenced and liberal-to-moderate bishops were shunted aside in favor of hard-liners”

What a liberal rag this website is!!!!!


8 posted on 08/07/2013 2:47:51 PM PDT by If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Back in 1014 the western Church added one word to that very prayer and it caused a schism that still exists to this day. So it is probably appropriate to use due caution.


9 posted on 08/07/2013 2:48:11 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

You’d be better off attending a Jehovah’s Witness meeting than going to a Novus Ordo Modernist imitation mass.

You’re eager to flush 1,500 years of tenets, rubrics and worshipful ceremony down the toilet. Christ’s Church on earth was not to be a mockery of the religion originally headed by Peter.

Satan is involved in the details here of the evolution of the Roman Catholic church into a contorted caricature of Jesus’ legacy.


10 posted on 08/07/2013 2:49:32 PM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: If You Want It Fixed - Fix It

There are liberals who lurk here.

It’s unfortunate that so many apologists for the decimation of the Roman Catholic Church are among them.


11 posted on 08/07/2013 2:50:46 PM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: IbJensen

Are you saying that the Novus Ordo is not a valid Mass? I don’t believe that’s how the Vatican views it, although the Vatican would prefer the Latin Mass completely.


12 posted on 08/07/2013 2:51:01 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

con = with
substantial - substance

Very simple and it goes with the Latin.


13 posted on 08/07/2013 2:53:51 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

If the Vatican would prefer returning to the Tridentine Mass then why hasn’t it be reinstated by any of the popes following the folly of Vatican II?

Jesus is not pleased with what the successors of Peter have done to his legacy left on earth.


14 posted on 08/07/2013 2:55:33 PM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: haffast

I must have missed it..........when did Ross Douthat become conservative? The author is guilty of the same wishful thinking he imputes to conservatives.


15 posted on 08/07/2013 2:57:52 PM PDT by STJPII
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To: Buckeye McFrog

IMO, some on the Catholic Right are obsessed (and I choose that word quite purposefully....obsessed) with relatively insignificant issues (precise times at which we must kneel during Mass, saying “one in being” or “consubstantial”, etc.)

Ya, like abortion and marriage. They should support open borders, higher taxes etc.


16 posted on 08/07/2013 2:59:34 PM PDT by STJPII
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To: Buckeye McFrog

IMO, some on the Catholic Right are obsessed (and I choose that word quite purposefully....obsessed) with relatively insignificant issues (precise times at which we must kneel during Mass, saying “one in being” or “consubstantial”, etc.)

Ya, like abortion and marriage. They should support open borders, higher taxes etc.


17 posted on 08/07/2013 2:59:48 PM PDT by STJPII
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To: IbJensen
Jesus is not pleased with what the successors of Peter have done to his legacy left on earth.

Really? You think you're Jesus now?

18 posted on 08/07/2013 3:00:50 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
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To: IbJensen

SSPX?


19 posted on 08/07/2013 3:13:14 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: haffast
Is Francis : "Petrus Romanus" ?

20 posted on 08/07/2013 3:18:11 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: IbJensen

You need to talk to the U. S. Bishops.

Vatican II never changed the preference for the Latin Mass.


21 posted on 08/07/2013 3:18:56 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: IbJensen

“Jesus is not pleased with what the successors of Peter have done to his legacy left on earth.”

Please. My Roman friends here have assured me the Church is totally infallible - never makes mistakes.
Everything therefore is under control.


22 posted on 08/07/2013 4:07:07 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws - Tacituss)
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To: IbJensen

Yu may have answered this question before and I missed it somehow, but are you a sedevacantist?


23 posted on 08/07/2013 5:14:46 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: If You Want It Fixed - Fix It; IbJensen
David Gibson's professional affiliations are the AOL Political blog and Commonweal.

That may explain his particular set of distortions.

24 posted on 08/07/2013 5:18:20 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: IbJensen

I’m afraid you’re correct. Pope Francis strikes me as the type of person who has all the love in the world for the poor, the sick and the disadvantaged, but has nothing left but contempt and chastisement for the rest of humanity who does not fall into those categories. Supposedly he rejects liberation theology and maybe he does in its Marxist “doctrines” but he sure can’t seem to escape the social justice memes. Mother Teresa was not that way. She ministered to the poorest of the poor and those who were poor in spirit.


25 posted on 08/07/2013 5:24:24 PM PDT by JPX2011
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To: Mrs. Don-o
David Gibson - Biography

"DAVID GIBSON is an award-winning religion journalist, author, filmmaker, and a convert to Catholicism. He came by all those vocations by accident, or Providence, during a longer-than-expected sojourn in Rome in the 1980s."

"Gibson began his journalistic career as a walk-on sports editor and columnist at The International Courier, a small daily in Rome serving Italy's English-language community. He then found a job as a newscaster and writer across the Tiber at the English Programme at Vatican Radio, an entity he describes as a cross between NPR and Armed Forces Radio for the pope. The Jesuits who ran the radio were charitable enough to hire Gibson even though he had no radio background, could not pronounce the name "Karol Wojtyla," and wasn't Catholic. Time and experience overcame all those challenges, and Gibson went on to cover dozens of John Paul II's overseas trips, including papal visits to Africa, Europe, Latin America and the United States."

Read more:
http://dgibson.com/biography.html

Gibson on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/David-Gibson/e/B001HML5TK/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_7?qid=1375922074&sr=1-7

26 posted on 08/07/2013 5:58:37 PM PDT by haffast (Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. -Abe Lincoln)
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To: haffast
As I read through the comments of others, I can readily understand the disappointment with the present pope. I would like to point out a few things that might show the forest - that is, a view from above the trees to bring some hope into the present. First of all, I believe many if not most of you will recall the vision of Pope Leo XIII in 1884, who was knocked to the floor of the Vatican after saying Mass. If you DON'T know about it, then briefly, he saw a vision of the devil speaking to God. In it, the devil said that he could destroy the Church if given the time (the 20th Century) and the power. The Lord said, you have the time and the power. After this time, the Pope understood that the power of Satan would be broken. From this vision came the prayer to St. Michael, said after all the low Masses until around 1962. You can research this on your own for a more complete explanation. The bottom line here, to me anyways, is that with each passing day, we are further removed from the 20th century, and the devil's power is on the wane whether it is apparent to us or not. I would also like to point out that Fatima, Garabandal (which has not been approved OR condemned) and Akita all point to a dramatic change being brought about by God in the very near future. My few paragraphs here cannot possibly explain what all was included here, but your own research, including testimonies on Youtube, can fill in the admittedly large gaps. Finally, Pope Francis to his credit HAS encouraged the recitation of the Rosary, and on this point I'd like to make a recommendation to all Catholics or others of good will who do or would say the Rosary. It has to do with the Idea, in military terms, of a force multiplier. If you become enrolled in The Confraternity of the Most Holy Rosary, as advocated by St. Louis de Montfort, your rosaries will be joined with those all the other members, living or deceased. As St. Louis points out, by the law of community prayer, if an individual says a Rosary, it is but one Rosary. However, if joined with a group, each member receives the benefits of prayer as there are members in the group. It's an exponential power, meaning if two prayer together, each receives the the benefit of two rosaries, and four TOTAL are presented before the throne. If ten, then each receives 10 individually, while the group has sent on 100 Rosaries. The bottom line is, if you are registered in the Confraternity, for Each Rosary you pray, you give MILLIONS and receive the BENEFITS from MILLIONS of Rosaries each time you pray. Even if you are a lurker from another denomination, you understand the principle of “where two or three are gathered in My name”, so that group prayer and praise is much, much more efficacious than one individual's. As Catholics, we have the awesome gift, and perhaps a duty, to take advantage of this awesome power of praying the Most Holy Rosary as members of the Confraternity. In this way, we light a candle, and many candles at that, instead of cursing the darkness. "My people are destroyed from a lack of knowledge." Hosea 4:6 Vade retro satana! Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, thy kingdom come!
27 posted on 08/07/2013 6:02:58 PM PDT by stisidore
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To: If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
“While left-wing theologians were silenced and liberal-to-moderate bishops were shunted aside in favor of hard-liners.”

It was the Washington compost....

28 posted on 08/07/2013 6:07:01 PM PDT by unread
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To: haffast
I appreciate this list --- a much more accurate set of credentials than I gave for Gibson. I just jotted off what I knew best --- not a good idea for me to be so hasty.

Thank you for correcting my "jot".

29 posted on 08/07/2013 6:23:47 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Si.

You did ask but forgot.


30 posted on 08/07/2013 6:45:40 PM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: D-fendr

Nein.


31 posted on 08/07/2013 6:46:23 PM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: Sirius Lee

Get serious, Sirius.


32 posted on 08/07/2013 6:46:54 PM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: Salvation

I am saying that the Novus Ordo is not a valid mass.


33 posted on 08/07/2013 6:47:33 PM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: IbJensen; Chode

“ou’d be better off attending a Jehovah’s Witness meeting than going to a Novus Ordo Modernist imitation mass.”

Are you kidding me? You’d be better off attending any protestant service than attending anything other than a good old fashion Latin Mass!!


34 posted on 08/07/2013 7:22:13 PM PDT by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: IbJensen

Why do you say that?


35 posted on 08/07/2013 8:51:17 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: haffast

LOL!

I’m still waiting for Francis to sell the Vatican at auction, and give the money to the poor, as was originally intended by Yeshua.


36 posted on 08/07/2013 8:57:16 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: IbJensen

Protestant?


37 posted on 08/07/2013 10:59:29 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

Roman Catholic.


38 posted on 08/08/2013 5:04:33 AM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: Morgana

Attending a Tridentine Mass is the only way to worship God.


39 posted on 08/08/2013 5:09:45 AM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: IbJensen

The Greeks, no doubt, will be amused to learn of your opinion.


40 posted on 08/08/2013 5:16:23 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: haffast

I think some of the things the Pope has said that appear to be promoting “social justice” has raised the hackles on the backs of some necks. That term is often used to promote communist/socialist ideas, so it makes many people very uncomfortable.


41 posted on 08/08/2013 9:16:18 AM PDT by MEGoody (You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: haffast

When was a Catholic ever to the right?


42 posted on 08/08/2013 9:19:12 AM PDT by Safetgiver ( Islam makes barbarism look genteel.)
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To: Safetgiver

When posing on FR or out of step with the Bishop of Rome and the USCCB.


43 posted on 08/08/2013 11:01:42 AM PDT by haffast (Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. -Abe Lincoln)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
--- not a good idea for me to be so hasty.

I've been hasty once or twice. ;)

44 posted on 08/08/2013 11:04:39 AM PDT by haffast (Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. -Abe Lincoln)
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To: stisidore
I've read in a book several times that the power of Satan (the fear of death) was defeated by Jesus on the Cross. That event preceded the vision of Pope Leo XIII by about 1,850 years .

Apostasy and tribulation will grow as in birth pangs until Jesus returns. This world is in a state of decay and is dying.

Was Mary crucified for you?

45 posted on 08/08/2013 11:19:40 AM PDT by haffast (Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. -Abe Lincoln)
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To: Tax-chick

It certainly is easier to point fingers at the traditionalists. If the focus remains on how they brought this on themselves, then no one will have to pay attention to the train wreck that has been and continues to be Vatican II.


46 posted on 08/08/2013 3:24:53 PM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv

One of the basic premises of relationship dynamics is that the person who is upset about something “owns” the problem. If “the Catholic right,” as the headline puts it, are “unsettled and divided,” then they own the problem.

Those who are not upset, unsettled, or divided - which presumably includes Pope Francis - simply do not have this problem at all.


47 posted on 08/08/2013 3:29:37 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Ask me about the Weiner Wager. Support Free Republic!)
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To: Tax-chick

Actually, the headline states that the Pope is unsettling and dividing the Catholic Right. Hence, he is the cause (according to the headline you are referring to) and the unsettled Catholic Right is the effect.

Now if you want to argue whether they have a right to take issue with him, that’s another story. But again, most here, for the most part, think the Catholic Right (aka the trads) are the ones with the problem...so I know how that discussion will end up.

Personally, I’m tired of the focus on this Pope. I think this division has been going on since Vatican II and THAT is the real problem.


48 posted on 08/08/2013 4:15:14 PM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv
the headline states that the Pope is unsettling and dividing the Catholic Right

Yes, but that's just a way of saying things. It's like saying, "My husband made me angry." No, he didn't. He said or did something, and I became angry. He is not responsible for my anger, and the Pope is not responsible for anyone's unsettledness or division.

I think this division has been going on since Vatican II and THAT is the real problem.

I blame the Civil War. We should have been allowed to secede peaceably.

49 posted on 08/08/2013 4:18:20 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Ask me about the Weiner Wager. Support Free Republic!)
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To: Tax-chick
Yes, but that's just a way of saying things. It's like saying, "My husband made me angry." No, he didn't. He said or did something, and I became angry. He is not responsible for my anger, and the Pope is not responsible for anyone's unsettledness or division.

Really? If my husband cheats and I become angry, he is not responsible for my anger? He is completely blameless? C.mon now.

50 posted on 08/08/2013 4:31:39 PM PDT by piusv
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