Posted on 08/11/2013 2:07:24 PM PDT by ReformationFan
Give Rachel Held Evans credit. She was able to generate a lot of discussion with her post, “Why millennials are leaving the church.” Evans’s contradictory article, however, is merely another polemic against the conservative evangelicalism she’s been battling for years. The solution to winning back? Churches just need to follow her lead and go liberal!
(Excerpt) Read more at clashdaily.com ...
It ain’t going to work.
Plus, around half those yutes actually will “grow up” at some point
I’m 32.
I too, wrote my first essay with a pencil and paper. I remember having to edit my papers and rewrite them in pen. Neatly. I was 14 before my family owned a computer and it was a 486.
It wasn’t until I was 16 that I first had an email account, but I could only check it at school because my family didn’t have internet at home. I had my first computer when I went away to university at 18. It wasn’t till I was 25 that I had internet at home.
I learned to drive when I was 16 and had a full (not a learner account), learned to shoot and hunt at 14, learned to fish at 10. Learned to light a fire with a match at 12 and to camp and survive at -20 when I was 14.
I’m of the exact same age and generation as this ‘lady’ here.
What do I think about Church? I became a Christian when I was 19. I converted to the Catholic church when I was 24. Why? Because I wanted a church that supported traditional marriage, and the prolife movement. I left evangelical christianity because I believed that Christ had appointed St. Peter as the head of the Church and that the Roman Catholic church truly was the church founded by Jesus Christ.
Going Liberal means going brainless.
Big problem with that is no one will get to Heaven by accident.
And to make the church more “relevant”, just go apostate. So how has that been working out for you, ECUSA?
The Church’s Magic Bullet for Keeping Millennials
What(Which) church?....
There are people who simply have no use for the moral and the spiritual. Many of these are young people who know nothing but self indulgence and take no responsibility for their actions.
Watering down the beauty and the truth of Christianity will not appeal to these people. It will only create an institution that is of no benefit to sincere people of faith.
I don’t think the spirit of the church is based upon popularity.
“If theological liberalism is such a “guarantee” of church “success”, why are the usual suspects(the ELCA, the PCUSA, the UCC, the Episcopagans, etc.) struggling to keep their doors open? “
Exactly. Growth trends show that Bible-believing, Christ-centered churches are growing, while the loosey goosey, anything goes churches are dying.
Yes, the entire book of James.Salutation
1 James, a servant[a] of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion:
Greetings.
Faith and Wisdom
2 My brothers and sisters,[b] whenever you face trials of any kind, consider it nothing but joy, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces endurance; 4 and let endurance have its full effect, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking in nothing.
5 If any of you is lacking in wisdom, ask God, who gives to all generously and ungrudgingly, and it will be given you. 6 But ask in faith, never doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind; 7, 8 for the doubter, being double-minded and unstable in every way, must not expect to receive anything from the Lord.
Poverty and Riches
9 Let the believer[c] who is lowly boast in being raised up, 10 and the rich in being brought low, because the rich will disappear like a flower in the field. 11 For the sun rises with its scorching heat and withers the field; its flower falls, and its beauty perishes. It is the same way with the rich; in the midst of a busy life, they will wither away.
Trial and Temptation
12 Blessed is anyone who endures temptation. Such a one has stood the test and will receive the crown of life that the Lord[d] has promised to those who love him. 13 No one, when tempted, should say, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil and he himself tempts no one. 14 But one is tempted by one’s own desire, being lured and enticed by it; 15 then, when that desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and that sin, when it is fully grown, gives birth to death. 16 Do not be deceived, my beloved.[e]
17 Every generous act of giving, with every perfect gift, is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.[f] 18 In fulfillment of his own purpose he gave us birth by the word of truth, so that we would become a kind of first fruits of his creatures.
Hearing and Doing the Word
19 You must understand this, my beloved:[g] let everyone be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger; 20 for your anger does not produce God’s righteousness. 21 Therefore rid yourselves of all sordidness and rank growth of wickedness, and welcome with meekness the implanted word that has the power to save your souls.
22 But be doers of the word, and not merely hearers who deceive themselves. 23 For if any are hearers of the word and not doers, they are like those who look at themselves[h] in a mirror; 24 for they look at themselves and, on going away, immediately forget what they were like. 25 But those who look into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and persevere, being not hearers who forget but doers who act—they will be blessed in their doing.
26 If any think they are religious, and do not bridle their tongues but deceive their hearts, their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
Warning against Partiality
2 My brothers and sisters,[i] do you with your acts of favoritism really believe in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ?[j] 2 For if a person with gold rings and in fine clothes comes into your assembly, and if a poor person in dirty clothes also comes in, 3 and if you take notice of the one wearing the fine clothes and say, “Have a seat here, please,” while to the one who is poor you say, “Stand there,” or, “Sit at my feet,”[k] 4 have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts? 5 Listen, my beloved brothers and sisters.[l] Has not God chosen the poor in the world to be rich in faith and to be heirs of the kingdom that he has promised to those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who oppress you? Is it not they who drag you into court? 7 Is it not they who blaspheme the excellent name that was invoked over you?
8 You do well if you really fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 9 But if you show partiality, you commit sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. 11 For the one who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery but if you murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment will be without mercy to anyone who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
Faith without Works Is Dead
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters,[m] if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. 20 Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is barren? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was brought to completion by the works. 23 Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another road? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead.
Taming the Tongue
3 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers and sisters,[n] for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. 2 For all of us make many mistakes. Anyone who makes no mistakes in speaking is perfect, able to keep the whole body in check with a bridle. 3 If we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we guide their whole bodies. 4 Or look at ships: though they are so large that it takes strong winds to drive them, yet they are guided by a very small rudder wherever the will of the pilot directs. 5 So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great exploits.
How great a forest is set ablaze by a small fire! 6 And the tongue is a fire. The tongue is placed among our members as a world of iniquity; it stains the whole body, sets on fire the cycle of nature,[o] and is itself set on fire by hell.[p] 7 For every species of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by the human species, 8 but no one can tame the tongue—a restless evil, full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse those who are made in the likeness of God. 10 From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers and sisters,[q] this ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and brackish water? 12 Can a fig tree, my brothers and sisters,[r] yield olives, or a grapevine figs? No more can salt water yield fresh.
Two Kinds of Wisdom
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Show by your good life that your works are done with gentleness born of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not be boastful and false to the truth. 15 Such wisdom does not come down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, devilish. 16 For where there is envy and selfish ambition, there will also be disorder and wickedness of every kind. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without a trace of partiality or hypocrisy. 18 And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace for[s] those who make peace.
Friendship with the World
4 Those conflicts and disputes among you, where do they come from? Do they not come from your cravings that are at war within you? 2 You want something and do not have it; so you commit murder. And you covet[t] something and cannot obtain it; so you engage in disputes and conflicts. You do not have, because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, in order to spend what you get on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. 5 Or do you suppose that it is for nothing that the scripture says, “God[u] yearns jealously for the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”? 6 But he gives all the more grace; therefore it says,
“God opposes the proud,
but gives grace to the humble.”7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy into dejection. 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.
Warning against Judging Another
11 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers and sisters.[v] Whoever speaks evil against another or judges another, speaks evil against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is one lawgiver and judge who is able to save and to destroy. So who, then, are you to judge your neighbor?
Boasting about Tomorrow
13 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a town and spend a year there, doing business and making money.” 14 Yet you do not even know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15 Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wishes, we will live and do this or that.” 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogance; all such boasting is evil. 17 Anyone, then, who knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, commits sin.
Warning to Rich Oppressors
5 Come now, you rich people, weep and wail for the miseries that are coming to you. 2 Your riches have rotted, and your clothes are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you, and it will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure[w] for the last days. 4 Listen! The wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. 5 You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned and murdered the righteous one, who does not resist you.
Patience in Suffering
7 Be patient, therefore, beloved,[x] until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious crop from the earth, being patient with it until it receives the early and the late rains. 8 You also must be patient. Strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.[y] 9 Beloved,[z] do not grumble against one another, so that you may not be judged. See, the Judge is standing at the doors! 10 As an example of suffering and patience, beloved,[aa] take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11 Indeed we call blessed those who showed endurance. You have heard of the endurance of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, how the Lord is compassionate and merciful.
12 Above all, my beloved,[ab] do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or by any other oath, but let your “Yes” be yes and your “No” be no, so that you may not fall under condemnation.
The Prayer of Faith
13 Are any among you suffering? They should pray. Are any cheerful? They should sing songs of praise. 14 Are any among you sick? They should call for the elders of the church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 The prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise them up; and anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective. 17 Elijah was a human being like us, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain and the earth yielded its harvest.
19 My brothers and sisters,[ac] if anyone among you wanders from the truth and is brought back by another, 20 you should know that whoever brings back a sinner from wandering will save the sinner’s[ad] soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
Footnotes:
- James 1:1 Gk slave
- James 1:2 Gk brothers
- James 1:9 Gk brother
- James 1:12 Gk he; other ancient authorities read God
- James 1:16 Gk my beloved brothers
- James 1:17 Other ancient authorities read variation due to a shadow of turning
- James 1:19 Gk my beloved brothers
- James 1:23 Gk at the face of his birth
- James 2:1 Gk My brothers
- James 2:1 Or hold the faith of our glorious Lord Jesus Christ without acts of favoritism
- James 2:3 Gk Sit under my footstool
- James 2:5 Gk brothers
- James 2:14 Gk brothers
- James 3:1 Gk brothers
- James 3:6 Or wheel of birth
- James 3:6 Gk Gehenna
- James 3:10 Gk My brothers
- James 3:12 Gk my brothers
- James 3:18 Or by
- James 4:2 Or you murder and you covet
- James 4:5 Gk He
- James 4:11 Gk brothers
- James 5:3 Or will eat your flesh, since you have stored up fire
- James 5:7 Gk brothers
- James 5:8 Or is at hand
- James 5:9 Gk Brothers
- James 5:10 Gk brothers
- James 5:12 Gk brothers
- James 5:19 Gk My brothers
- James 5:20 Gk his
The stupidity of this is that if you go around visiting churches, you will find that the more Bible-centered it is (i.e., not liberal), the younger the members and attenders. The Episcopalians and other mainliners now are basically made up of elderly people on life support and their paid caretakers that take them to church.
The truth is that going liberal is slow suicide for a church.
And the reasons are obvious. People go to church to find what is greater then them, to experience a transcendental faith that time does not erode. To find moral absolutes so that people can known when they are righteous and when they are sinning.
People do not go to church to be told how wonderful they are, how they are the center of the universe, that morality is relative, that what pleases in the moment is virtuous, no matter who gets hurt, and that right and wrong, good and evil, truth and lies, are all equal.
At 9:00 am Mass, half the people there were in their 20s and 30s with three or four kids each. Wonderful parish.
Going liberal = certain death for the church that adopts it.
We’re slow learners.
Well, look @ that...the GoP all that not long ago was about 35% of the registered voter split...
Now it's in the 20s percentile...WITH a MORE liberal GoP RINO leadership.
RINO spin
Go scriptural, and let God worry about the crowds, or lack thereof.
“The truth is that going liberal is slow suicide for a church.
“And the reasons are obvious. People go to church to find what is greater then them, to experience a transcendental faith that time does not erode. To find moral absolutes so that people can known when they are righteous and when they are sinning.
“People do not go to church to be told how wonderful they are, how they are the center of the universe, that morality is relative, that what pleases in the moment is virtuous, no matter who gets hurt, and that right and wrong, good and evil, truth and lies, are all equal.”
Well stated.
Agreed. In the end, it’s His church and He will take care of how many are in it.
Agreed but the desire to be popular is a staple of youth. Hopefully, people mature and grow out of this by the time their high school graduations come along but many sadly do not.
Indeed. “We just need candidates who are even more liberal than McCain and Romney and we’ll win!!!!”/sarc
Because they’re not churches or truth, they’re churches of comfort. You can find that at the bottom of a bottle in most bars.
The only thing that’s going to get this new generation back in church is to suffer. They live so lavishly, they’re so spoiled by technology and government education subsidies, they’re blind to the life beyond moment to moment. If this country suffers an economic collapse, I suspect more young people will come to God.
“People do not go to church to be told how wonderful they are, how they are the center of the universe, that morality is relative, that what pleases in the moment is virtuous, no matter who gets hurt, and that right and wrong, good and evil, truth and lies, are all equal.”
The religion you’ve just described is called Progressivism.
“The only thing that’s going to get this new generation back in church is to suffer. They live so lavishly, they’re so spoiled by technology and government education subsidies, they’re blind to the life beyond moment to moment. If this country suffers an economic collapse, I suspect more young people will come to God.”
It probably will take some kind of disaster for repentance to occur.
The truth is that young people WANT to be challenged, but challenged to accept the call of the Lord to “follow HIM”.
It is those churches that preach a faith that looks at things from God’s eyes. Liberal churches just do not get it.
I sense though, it will take once they come into adulthood, and come into the REAL WORLD that is then they will come to faith in the Lord. This is not just when one suffers but when one has to make important decisions, career, or even if one is going to stay single and serve the Lord or to get married.
The church needs to concern itself more with getting souls into heaven and less with getting butts into seats.
As long as you start first by believing in God.
Post of the day.
And apparently it’s the invention of millenials. /sarc.
Thank goodness we have boomers to engineer the economic collapse so that young folks can suffer! Brilliant.
Often it takes being in the REAL WORLD when the young people realize it is NOT about them.
You do not even to have a major economic collaspe to experience suffering.
Losing someone that you love, health issues, economic issues, etc., can come not only to those who are in the boomer generation, such as myself, though I am towards its tail end, but to anybody of any age.
Anyone who’s looked at the numbers objectively is staring at approaching economic depression.
We could have taken the pain 4 years ago, but chose not to do so (as that would have impacted boomers adversely). So we’ve chosen to continue taking on more debt and spending.
The states are actually mostly ok right now - save california and Illinois. But Federal debt has ballooned from 40 percent debt to GDP under Bush to around 110 percent and climbing.
Essentially boomers have chosen economic pain to be paid sometime in the future, and have squandered most of the gains they inherited. It’s not a complete disaster - yet. But we are getting there.
“The churches should go liberal”.
Well I just lost my lunch.
Hmmm. The funny thing about “going liberal” among Catholics like myself: they tried it, and it doesn’t work. Meanwhile, traditional liturgies and Latin Mass among the younger Catholics is what’s really catching on among Catholics that practice regularly.
People flock to liberalism in church to feel “welcome” but from my experience, in the longer term it’s not really taken all that seriously and they eventually lose interest. Many adherents to “liberal” Christianity often move on to “spiritual but not religious” and in general become spritually lazy and stop regular attendance. Not much of a formula for a thriving church.
Liberalism isn’t the answer. Authenticity is.
‘People flock to liberalism in church to feel “welcome” but from my experience, in the longer term it’s not really taken all that seriously and they eventually lose interest. Many adherents to “liberal” Christianity often move on to “spiritual but not religious” and in general become spritually lazy and stop regular attendance. Not much of a formula for a thriving church.’
In addition, why would these folks have a motivation to tithe and donate to a liberal “church” when they’ve already got liberalism for free?
Read this.
Just how much more "liberal" can the crowd who love Brokeback Church and the other mega-churches get?
I guess "Christian Porn" and "Fellowship Hookers" are next and maybe that'll be liberal enough.
I a sorely tempted to link to this article on Facebook. I attend a United Methodist Church in Occupied Virginia (the D.C. suburbs).
I always go back to something that Paul wrote to the Corinthians about how the wisdom of God is foolishness to the world.
The empirical evidence is unambiguous in that being theologically liberal doesn't help attendance. And the "reality-based" community won't look at the darned numbers.
Yet there has been a number of boomers who have gone into the tea party because they see this danger as well.
“I guess “Christian Porn” and “Fellowship Hookers” are next and maybe that’ll be liberal enough.”
Good one but alas you are too late, it’s happened.
“Christian Porn”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr0UpQXYkGs
I need a bath in isotope soap after watching that!!
“Fellowship Hookers”
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hyles/sin.htm
If you don’t remember that one, there was always Jim Bakker and his secretary.
I remember Jim & Tammy and the hundreds of people in this area who couldn't live without their show and at least a monthly trip to their Happy Land.
It looks like the Church of Go Along to Get Along has finally settled a rut known as the path of least resistance.
As long as people get fed a little of what they want to hear along with their propaganda they're completely happy with watching everything fall apart.
****SNICKER****SNICKER****SNICKER*****
To their credit I recall people who went to their “Happy Land” and would tell how nice it was to vacation at a Christian park where there was no beer or other vice. Now recall this is in the 1980’s before what goes on today.
I remember the show being on the air and never saw the big deal on it. Even at my young age I knew something was wrong because I don’t remember Jim Bakker ever reading from the Bible, or telling Bible stories. I would at least expect that from a show that calls itself “Christian”.
If your church is not preaching salvation through belief in Jesus Christ as God’s only Son, the Rapture, the bowl and tribulation judgements and the rise of the anti-christ you are in the WRONG church.
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