Posted on 08/13/2013 4:42:02 AM PDT by NYer
“As measured by demography, liberal Christianity is a clear failure.”
A few quick thoughts:
1) The success of Christianity is never measured by demography. The Sovereign Lord does as He pleases and always accomplishes His purposes. All that the Father intended to save from the foundation of the earth will come to Christ and be saved. Large and ever-growing numbers impress men, but they mean nothing. Christ builds His church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. Men scheme to grow churches, but Paul explained that one man plants a seed, another man waters it, but it is God who gives the increase. The sovereign God is pleased to use the means of foolish men, and for that we should be thankful not prideful. He should get all credit and glory when a church grows with true believers who have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. We cannot control the Spirit. We have no idea who will or will not be saved.
“And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?” (Daniel 4:35)
“But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”
(Psalm 115:3)
“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” (John 6:37)
From John 3:
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
2) Liberal Christianity was never biblical Christianity. Let it die!
“Schuller displayed similar impatience with younger priests. When an audience member lamented that younger priests were “more official and hierarchical,” Schuller said that for the last 20 to 30 years seminarians have been “interested in the First Vatican Council Church” and that such views represent a “real clash between two visions of Church,” since Schuller sees himself and his confreres as championing Vatican II. The only hope Schuller offered his distressed interlocutor was that younger priests will “gather some experience in life and faith,” the unspoken assumption being that experience will lead ineluctably to holding the same opinions Schuller has. Schuller repeated this theme in Los Angeles, warning his audience there that “The church is more and more led by relatively young priests of these movements, who nobody knows really.”
All really good signs, sounds scared and frustrated that the younger priests don’t seem to be meeting the standards of grey-haired old liberals.
FReegards, thanks for all the pings on FR
Remember that these “younger priests” that this priest speaks of in question are the legecies of Blessed John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI Emeritus, and in the future, Pope Francis.
“2) Liberal Christianity was never biblical Christianity. Let it die!”
That is what is happening now. What we are seeing is not only a Christian faith which is not only is going back to its Biblical roots, but shows that it is much more conservative.
Needless to say, most of what Schuller advocates is contrary to the New Testament and authoritative Church teaching
In fact the Church itself has been doing that for hundreds of years, they have opened the door for anti Christs or unbelievers to do just what this nut is doing.
If one man can add to or take away from the scriptures then why not another?
It is one of the truly wonderful paradoxes of Scripture, that it does not teach the doctrine of "sola Scriptura" --- which is, itself, an unBiblical doctrine of men.
Re: women and married priests.
Like the society Schuller wants the Church to mirror, it won’t stop there. And what is intended to be an island of calm and steadiness in a chaotic world becomes the chaos it was intended to offset.
Apparently you don’t believe that, as Jesus said, “When He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth” (John 16:13) — a Scripture which logically entails the development of doctrine.
Or is it what the Pope says?
Any thing contrary to what the scriptures say is not the truth, regardless of who says it.
Amen to that.
What is truth?
Matthew 16:18-19
BTW, why do you trust the scripture that you have today and how did that come about?
And what do you think they did before the NT letters circulated?
Paul spoke of a rock following the Jews through the Sinai in 1 Cor. and Jannes and Jambres opposing Moses in 2 Tim.... do you think they jumped down his throat because they couldn’t find it? Gee Paul, how did you know the magicians names? We’re leaving because we can’t find it.
Would you also tell the Lord that making wine in ceremonial jars (really big deal) at Cana and telling a man to pick up his mat and walk after a healing was out of line and he lacked authority, because it was against scripture?
The Oral tradition has always been around longer than the written.
Would you say to Jesus, I need to see it in scripture you’re the son of God; Yeah I see your miracles and you talk the talk but is it written down... and can you prove they’re talking about you?
As John said, if everything was written down the world couldn’t hold the books.
Too late. When the Catholic Church adopted liberal Protestant Biblical criticism it boarded the liberal Protestant train. And now any hesitation to kiss the ring of historical criticism is met with accusations of (of all things) Protestantism.
What is truth?
The gospel of Jesus is the truth.
The resurrection Of Jesus was witnessed by the 12 Apostles, and they did write it down or had it wrote down, Their word is good enough for me.
What is truth?
That is the first sentence i heard an atheist say about 50 years ago when he was attempting to prove Jesus as no more than a man.
That was his mistake because it was part of the reason a few years later i started reading the bible to prove his point, it did not work out that way.
And No, i do not believe you are an atheist, i am just saying that even though i was not a believer at that time it did bring my thoughts to the Gospel of Christ.
Matthew 16:18-19
Is this going to prove that the Pope is the vicar of Christ and that he took over from peter? if so then it would have to be proven by Gospel which did not get into the scriptures, very handy.
As for the other questions you are asking me, i recognize Jesus as lord so why would i question him on anything he did?
Paul? i do wonder at times if i rightly understand every thing he says but he seems to be excepted by the Apostle Peter, other wise i don,t know if i could except him or not.
Huh? Where did you get that idea?
Listening to opinions from someone who is anti-Christ, anti-Christian, and who claims that Christians are all ignorant suckers who have fallen for a scam based a fraud named Jesus Christ commenting on Christianity is like listening to Himmler’s opinions about Jews.
He is bitter over certain interpretations/explanations of Genesis 1-11 and Joshua 10 that some Catholics believe are the true and correct opinions.
The Gospels came from the Catholic Church. Not the other way around. There were Christians before the Bible ever existed.
End of story. That’s Catholic Christians, not PROTESTants.
Need a little definition of terms here, you just previously said:
It is one of the truly wonderful paradoxes of Scripture, that it does not teach the doctrine of "sola Scriptura" --- which is, itself, an unBiblical doctrine of men.
But, when Ravenwolf stated what is the real meaning behind sola Scriptura - that anything contrary to what the Scriptures say is not the truth - you gave an AMEN. What IS the definition of sola Scriptura then? Nobody says that ONLY the Bible can be used to understand the tenets of the Christian faith, just that as, for example, Cyril of Jerusalem states:
"For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell thee these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning, but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures." - Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures, 4:17)
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