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Pope Francis on 10 Reasons Why People Reject the Church
brandonvogt ^ | August 16, 2013 | Brandon Vogt

Posted on 08/17/2013 2:06:44 AM PDT by NYer

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To: JCBreckenridge
To us, it’s a requirement that we go.

Muslims MUST pray 5 times a day - facing Mecca.

101 posted on 08/17/2013 5:18:51 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: exPBRrat

#8 This indoctrination starts early nowadays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diYlHI8Ghkg


102 posted on 08/17/2013 5:20:35 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
...hold to the traditions which you were taught...

Golly!

I guess what we need to know is: Just what traditions WERE taught - at the time this verse was written.

Seems like there are a LOT of verses that mention things WRITTEN DOWN...



NIV Matthew 2:5
"In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:

NIV Matthew 4:1-11
1. Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
2. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
3. The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
4. Jesus answered, "It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "
5. Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
6. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "`He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
7. Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "
8. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10. Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "
11. Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

NIV Matthew 11:10
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

NIV Matthew 21:13
"It is written," he said to them, "`My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a `den of robbers.' "

NIV Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him.

NIV Matthew 26:31
Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'

NIV Mark 7:6-7
6. He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "`These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
7. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'

NIV Mark 9:11-13
11. And they asked him, "Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
12. Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?
13. But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him."

NIV Mark 11:17
And as he taught them, he said, "Is it not written: "`My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations' ? But you have made it `a den of robbers.' "

NIV Mark 14:27
"You will all fall away," Jesus told them, "for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.'

NIV Luke 1:1-4
1. Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us,
2. just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
3. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
4. so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

NIV Luke 4:17-19
17. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18. "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
19. to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

NIV Luke 7:27
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

NIV Luke 10:26
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

NIV Luke 18:31-33
31. Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.
32. He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him.
33. On the third day he will rise again."

NIV Luke 20:17-18
17. Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written: "`The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone ' ?
18. Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."

NIV Luke 21:22
For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

NIV Luke 22:37
It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

NIV Luke 24:44-47
44. He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
45. Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47. and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

NIV John 2:17
His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."
 
NIV John 6:31
Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: `He gave them bread from heaven to eat.' "

NIV John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: `They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

NIV John 12:14-16
14. Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,
15. "Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."
16. At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him.

NIV John 15:25
But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: `They hated me without reason.'

NIV John 20:30-31
30. Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
31. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

NIV Acts 1:20
"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms, "`May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, "`May another take his place of leadership.'

NIV Acts 7:42
But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets: "`Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?

NIV Acts 13:29
When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb.

NIV Acts 13:32-33
32. "We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers
33. he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: "`You are my Son; today I have become your Father. '

NIV Acts 15:15-18
15. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16. "`After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,
17. that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things'
18. that have been known for ages.

NIV Acts 23:5
Paul replied, "Brothers, I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written: `Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people.' "

NIV Acts 24:14
However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

NIV Romans 1:17
For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

NIV Romans 2:24
As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

NIV Romans 3:4
Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."

NIV Romans 3:10-12
10. As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
11. there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
12. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

NIV Romans 4:17
As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.

NIV Romans 4:23-24
23. The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone,
24. but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

NIV Romans 8:36
As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

NIV Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

NIV Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

NIV Romans 10:15
And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

NIV Romans 11:7-10
7. What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
8. as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."
9. And David says: "May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10. May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever."

NIV Romans 11:26-27
26. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

NIV Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

NIV Romans 14:11
It is written: "`As surely as I live,' says the Lord, `every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"

NIV Romans 15:3-4
3. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

NIV Romans 15:7-12
7. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
8. For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs
9. so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: "Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to your name."
10. Again, it says, "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people."
11. And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and sing praises to him, all you peoples."
12. And again, Isaiah says, "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; the Gentiles will hope in him."

NIV Romans 15:21
Rather, as it is written: "Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand."

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:19
For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:31
Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

NIV 1 Corinthians 2:9
However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" --

NIV 1 Corinthians 3:19-20
19. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness" ;
20. and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."

NIV 1 Corinthians 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

NIV 1 Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned?

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:7
Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:11
These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

NIV 1 Corinthians 14:21
In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:54
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

NIV 2 Corinthians 1:13-14
13. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that,
14. as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.

NIV 2 Corinthians 4:13-14
13. it is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,
14. because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence.

NIV 2 Corinthians 8:15
as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."

NIV Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

NIV Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

NIV Galatians 4:22
For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.

NIV Galatians 4:27
For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband."

NIV Hebrews 10:7
Then I said, `Here I am-- it is written about me in the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God.'"

NIV 1 Peter 1:15-16
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."

NIV 2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

NIV 1 John 2:12-14
12. I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
13. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father.
14. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

103 posted on 08/17/2013 5:24:15 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Prov3456
(PS: I'm a Methodist.)


Oh?


I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said, "Stop! Don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
 
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
He said, "Like what?"
 
I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"
He said, "Religious."
 
I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?"
He said, "Christian."
 
I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
He said, "Protestant."
 
I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
He said, "Baptist!"
 
I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of GOD or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
He said, "Baptist Church of GOD!"
 
I said, "Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of GOD, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of GOD?"
He said,"Reformed Baptist Church of GOD!"
 
I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1915?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1915!"
 
I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.
-- Emo Phillips

104 posted on 08/17/2013 5:26:26 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Salvation
Christ founded the Catholic Church and is the head of the Catholic Church. Were you unaware of that?

I've heard this claim before...


 
Is Peter the 'rock'?
 


NIV Matthew 4:18-19
 18.  As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen.
 19.  "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
 
NIV Matthew 8:14
  When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever.
 
NIV Matthew 10:1-2
 1.  He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil  spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
 2.  These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
 
NIV Matthew 14:28-31
 28.  "Lord, if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to come to you on the water."
 29.  "Come," he said.   Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
 30.  But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!"
 31.  Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"
 
NIV Matthew 15:13-16
 13.  He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
 14.  Leave them; they are blind guides.  If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
 15.  Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."
 16.  "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
 

As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE the following verses came along.....


NIV Matthew 16:13-18
 13.  When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
 14.  They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
 15.  "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
 16.  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."
 17.  Jesus replied, "
Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
 18.  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades  will not overcome it.
 19.  I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
   and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
 
NIV Luke 6:48
   He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.
 
NIV Romans 9:33
  As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 
 
 
NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
 4.  As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him--
 5.  you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
 6.  For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 7.  Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, "
 8.  and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.


But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS???

 

NIV Genesis 49:24-25
 24.  But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,
 25.  because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty,  who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb.
 
NIV Numbers 20:8
   "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink."
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
  He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
   Jeshurun  grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
  You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
 30.  How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up?
 31.  For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede.
 
NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
  "There is no one holy  like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
 2.  He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
 3.  my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn  of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me.
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
  For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
  "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior!
 
NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
 3.  The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,
 4.  he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.'
 
NIV Psalms 18:2
  The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn  of my salvation, my stronghold.
 
NIV Psalms 18:31
   For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
 
NIV Psalms 18:46
  The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!
 
NIV Psalms 19:14
   May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
 
NIV Psalms 28:1
   To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.
 
NIV Psalms 31:2-3
 2.  Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me.
 3.  Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.
 
NIV Psalms 42:9
   I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"
 
NIV Psalms 62:2
   He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.
 
NIV Psalms 62:6
   He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.
 
NIV Psalms 62:7
   My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.
 
NIV Psalms 71:3
   Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.
 
NIV Psalms 78:35
   They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.
 
NIV Psalms 89:26
   He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.'
 
NIV Psalms 92:14-15
 14.  They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green,
 15.  proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him."
 
NIV Psalms 95:1
   Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
 
NIV Psalms 144:1
   Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
 
NIV Isaiah 17:10
   You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.
 
NIV Isaiah 26:4
   Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.
 
NIV Isaiah 30:29
 And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.
 
NIV Isaiah 44:8
   Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." 
 
NIV Habakkuk 1:12
   O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

.....No other rock.............
 
And now you know the Biblical position!


105 posted on 08/17/2013 5:29:05 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: GBA
...the rock of Peter...

Is bogus.

106 posted on 08/17/2013 5:29:55 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: usconservative

James 5:14-16

...the elders...


107 posted on 08/17/2013 5:31:08 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: usconservative

Ah!

Thoroughly trained!


108 posted on 08/17/2013 5:32:09 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Why does that matter?

It matters to get you off on a tangent...

109 posted on 08/17/2013 5:34:00 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JCBreckenridge
Which he then establishes upon St. Peter, as is recorded in the Book of Matthew.

Where; exactly?

110 posted on 08/17/2013 5:34:51 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JCBreckenridge
...he said he founded the Church on Peter?

Sorry; but Jesus said no such thing.

The RCC says it.

111 posted on 08/17/2013 5:36:13 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

You believe Catholics are the same as Muslims?


112 posted on 08/17/2013 5:36:44 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
You can believe whatever you choose to believe.

Nope...

You WILL believe whatever you've been TAUGHT to believe.

113 posted on 08/17/2013 5:37:09 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

“Jesus said no such thing.”

The book of Matthew claims that Jesus did in fact state that he was going to build his Church on Peter. Your argument isn’t with me - your argument is between you and the book of Matthew.

Given the dispute, I’m going to side with Matthew, over you.


114 posted on 08/17/2013 5:38:02 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: Salvation
You got ahold of some misinformation in my opinion.

This claim seems a bit vague.

I would like to KNOW just what YOU THINK is misinformation that is being presented.

115 posted on 08/17/2013 5:38:34 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JCBreckenridge
The Book of Matthew says he did.

You may actually want to READ this book.

116 posted on 08/17/2013 5:39:20 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

“That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church”

Matthew 16:17, as preached by your beloved King James.

The word of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.


117 posted on 08/17/2013 5:39:34 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: Elsie

I advise you to do the same.

Apparently you are unfamiliar enough to require a citation.


118 posted on 08/17/2013 5:40:32 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: Salvation
Read your Bible.

Where; exactly, should I read it?

CAn you point me to a tract or something easier to understand than the BIBLE?

119 posted on 08/17/2013 5:40:36 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Revolting cat!

Catty remarks again?


120 posted on 08/17/2013 5:41:43 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Then how do you reconcile your assertion which is contrary to what the Book of Matthew claims?

Either you are right and the Book of Matthew is wrong or you are wrong and the Book of Matthew is correct.


121 posted on 08/17/2013 5:41:52 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: JCBreckenridge

Do I know that one group follows what their leaders tell them to do and that the other group does what their leaders have told them to do?


122 posted on 08/17/2013 5:45:02 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JCBreckenridge
The book of Matthew claims that Jesus did in fact state that he was going to build his Church on Peter.

No; it does not.


Given the dispute, I’m going to side with Matthew, over you.

GOOD!

That's all I'm wanting you to do.

123 posted on 08/17/2013 5:46:08 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: All

124 posted on 08/17/2013 5:47:28 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: JCBreckenridge
“That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church”

See what you get when you LEAVE OUT what the 'rock' is!


Matthew 16:16
Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

125 posted on 08/17/2013 5:48:04 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Again I was not talking with you. Please stop stalking me.


126 posted on 08/17/2013 5:49:07 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: JCBreckenridge
I advise you to do the same.

I actually POSTED it; so OTHERS can make up their OWN mind; instead of slavishly following what their 'church' has taught them.

127 posted on 08/17/2013 5:49:40 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JCBreckenridge
Only TWO choices?

HMMMmmm...

128 posted on 08/17/2013 5:50:08 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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Comment #129 Removed by Moderator

To: Elsie

“Simon Peter answered, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ “

Please tell me, what does the term, ‘petroglyph’, mean?


130 posted on 08/17/2013 5:55:04 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: Elsie

“That’s all I’m wanting you to do.”

Then why do you continue to teach error?


131 posted on 08/17/2013 5:56:06 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: Elsie

“Do I know that one group follows what their leaders tell them to do and that the other group does what their leaders have told them to do?”

Do you believe that obedience is a Christian virtue?


132 posted on 08/17/2013 5:56:45 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: Elsie

Still trying to find converts to that Utah version of... whatever?


133 posted on 08/17/2013 6:04:33 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Salvation
"Christ founded the Catholic Church on the apostles on Easter Day. Read your Bible. He also ordained all of the apostles as the first Bishops that day."

When did Christ found the Orthodox Church?

134 posted on 08/17/2013 6:08:04 PM PDT by bkaycee (John 3:16)
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To: JCBreckenridge

“Then how do you reconcile your assertion which is contrary to what the Book of Matthew claims?”

It doesn’t

“Either you are right and the Book of Matthew is wrong or you are wrong and the Book of Matthew is correct.”

Matthew is correct. You are wrong.


135 posted on 08/17/2013 6:13:55 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws - Tacituss)
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To: Revolting cat!; Elsie; All

“Still trying to find converts to that Utah version of... whatever?”


Are you accusing Elsie of being a Mormon, which is a religious cult I’ve seen you defend by quoting Aleister Crowley, a Satanist?

Are you still trying to win converts to the Catholic religion by quoting atheists and leaders of the Satanic movement?


136 posted on 08/17/2013 6:18:04 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Who’s talking to you, Alien?


137 posted on 08/17/2013 6:21:29 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Revolting cat!; All

Awww, don’t say that like my opinion doesn’t count. You don’t want to seem INTOLERANT, do ya?

“Intolerance is evidence of impotence.”
Aleister Crowley

81 posted on 6/9/2013 2:37:23 PM by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)


138 posted on 08/17/2013 6:27:29 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

You are confusing me for someone else on your planet Crouch-Bakker. Looking for enemies? Buzz off!


139 posted on 08/17/2013 6:30:59 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Elsie

Hey, Elsie.

Arrogant haughtiness is the general condition of man, sadly. It’s a humanity problem. To say it’s just, or even chiefly, a Catholic problem is to be, well, arrogantly haughty.

It is wonderful that Christ forgives us for that if we believe. Some sins we may not even know we need to confess, and the Holy Spirit is very aware and there is an interesting passage in the scripture that says the Holy Spirit makes intercession FOR us... with groanings deeper than words. We just ask God forgive us of our sins... the Holy Spirit takes care of listing them out for us until the point we are clearly aware then the Lord presses us to confess them from our awareness. No self flagellation offering needed. Jesus took the flagellation.

I’ve gotten flak from both Roman Catholic and Protestant sides for my theological assertions. But I’m just following the ministry of Jesus Christ without bias, “believing all things.” I just get it strongly in my soul that BOTH the Roman Catholics AND the Protestants AND the Orthodox have some things right... and that they have some things wrong... and that Jesus is the very firm cornerstone at every earthly separated (but heavenly joined) segment of His church. The Protestant earthly segment of the church did not form out of thin air. It formed out of the witness of the early church, which had Peter as the formal human cornerstone... so I’m not sweating the Peter issue here. If we Protestants had to have a pope... Peter’s our pope.

Anyhow, blessings to everyone. I’ve had one huge ordeal of a life. God did it for an excellent reason.


140 posted on 08/17/2013 6:40:37 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

“Matthew is correct. You are wrong.”

Matthew states that the Church was founded on St. Peter.

“Blessed are you Simon bar Jonah, for it was revealed to you not by me, but by the Father in heaven.”


141 posted on 08/17/2013 6:41:33 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: HiTech RedNeck

“The Protestant earthly segment of the church did not form out of thin air. It formed out of the witness of the early church”

1500 years after the apostles? Luther was a Catholic priest.


142 posted on 08/17/2013 6:43:50 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: NYer

You offer an article by Thomas Madden? hahahahahahahaha. Try that with someone who doesn’t know he’s a professor from a Jesuit university.

I have put together a nice collection of historic texts dealing with the atrocities of Rome and I’m hunting for more, so I don’t want or need any Jesuit truth. Rome can try to rewrite history, but she spilled too much blood of too many martyrs over too many centuries for her sins to be erased. But it doesn’t really matter what I know because its The Lord Jesus Christ with whom Rome must contend when He returns in judgment.


143 posted on 08/17/2013 6:45:02 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: JCBreckenridge
You see yourself as an individual going at it alone with Christ. We see ourselves as a community.

It has to be one on one for a personal relationship...As Christians, the Holy Spirit indwells individual bodies...

It is odd that non Catholics care about the Catholic church.

I care nothing for the Catholic Church...It is individuals who I care about...Those individuals who don't have a one on one personal relationship with the Savior; those individuals who are told not to worry about a personal relationship...

It is impossible to be a Christian by association...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

It is very personal...This indwelling of the Holy Spirit is an individual thing...There's no 'group' to it...That person in line in front of you who just ate the Eucharist may not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within him/them...It's very personal and you'd better be sure...

144 posted on 08/17/2013 6:47:42 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: JCBreckenridge

Luther was one, indeed. Luther also picked up the bible, that witness. To the Lord to whom a thousand years is as a day, it’s like day before yesterday. Anyhow the point is we don’t trust in Luther. We trust in what Luther, and Calvin, and Zwingli, and millions? if not billions, of others did, that witness. Brought to us courtesy of the bible.


145 posted on 08/17/2013 6:51:07 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Iscool

Let me straddle the fence very firmly. It is individual AND community. Individual puts you in the church. Community of believers helps you keep going forward “towards the goal to win the prize in Christ Jesus.” But the power all comes from Christ.


146 posted on 08/17/2013 6:52:42 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

“Brought to us courtesy of the bible.”

What if I told you that the bible was in existence a thousand years prior to Luther?


147 posted on 08/17/2013 6:53:47 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: JCBreckenridge

I’d respond hallelujah.


148 posted on 08/17/2013 6:55:29 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: .45 Long Colt

“Rome can try to rewrite history, but she spilled too much blood of too many martyrs over too many centuries for her sins to be erased.”

What are your thoughts on the 40 martyrs?


149 posted on 08/17/2013 6:57:00 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: Iscool

“I care nothing for the Catholic Church”

Then why do you stand outside with the nose pressed up against the glass?


150 posted on 08/17/2013 6:58:26 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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