Skip to comments.Pope Francis on 10 Reasons Why People Reject the Church
Posted on 08/17/2013 2:06:44 AM PDT by NYer
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“Learning the Scriptures is a daily, lifetime discipline that progresses as you mature. It cannot be outsourced.”
Discipline implies that there are teachers who have the authority to correct you in your understanding.
“In any case, you were convinced based on limited knowledge”
Again, one would not choose a duty unless one believed that the cause was just. I did freely choose the Catholic church. Arguing that my choice was ‘not free’, ‘uniformed’, isn’t going to convince anyone.
It’s a terrible argument. Once again - you are assuming that ‘only those who make the same decision as you are informed’.
Luther killed them, with a sword, knife how?
We remember how Anabaptist Christians knew suffering and persecution, and we remember how some of our most honored Reformation leaders defended this persecution in the name of faithfulness,
“Discipline implies that there are teachers who have the authority to correct you in your understanding.”
We are commanded to study to show ourselves approved. We are commanded to love God with our “whole mind”. Outsourcing this is not Biblical.
“Again, one would not choose a duty unless one believed that the cause was just. I did freely choose the Catholic church. Arguing that my choice was not free, uniformed, isnt going to convince anyone.”
No one I see claimed you were not free or were uninformed. I clearly said you now have no choice but to toe the line unless you are willing to leave.
“Its a terrible argument. Once again - you are assuming that only those who make the same decision as you are informed.”
No. I assume being fully informed has no practical value to you now that you made your free choice. You must believe whatever they teach you, or switch to Democrat :-)
You said, Luther killed 40 and provide zero proof.
Just WHICH reply contains that assertion?
I, for one, am not questioning your freedom to choose; but am VERY interested in the information you looked at before COMING to this decision.
And, not ONLY the information, but how you analyzed, and dismissed, any contrary information.
Problem is, doctrine does not save so the Catholic church cannot have *saving truths*. There is no such thing as *the faith*. That's putting faith in their faith, not faith in Jesus. Only Jesus saves, not a church, not *correct doctrine*, not sacraments, not adherence to the catechism or creeds.
To repent, believe, and confess is all we need and those cannot even really be separated for someone who truly believes.
I see your supporting evidence from the CCC was never acknowledged.
Can you say *Inquisition*?
I dont see how
protestants Catholics can justify killing other protestants in any circumstances. Does Jesus say, kill innocents because other people kill you?
And yet we still see Catholics calling for a return to the Inquisition.
Link to the *Hall of Amazing FRoman Catholic Quotes*
“Catholics calling for a return to the Inquisition.”
“I, for one, am not questioning your freedom to choose; but am VERY interested in the information you looked at before COMING to this decision.
And, not ONLY the information, but how you analyzed, and dismissed, any contrary information.”
Well, let’s see. It wasn’t a short term process. It took about 2-3 years or so. I was quite ignorant of Rome and as I did my research I realized that much of what I believed the Catholic church taught - was a distortion and incorrect.
I started from the same place as Menno Simons and the issues that justified breaking away from Rome.
You can find it here.
You might be shocked at what his justifications were and the hows and the whys. The gap is really not all that much between Menno Simons and the Catholic church. Much has been made of the difference - as I examined further, I realized that at Trent - the Catholic church had taken Luther’s words at face value. Rather than actually speaking to the anabaptists - they relied on Luther’s calumny and that it colored greatly the Catholic understanding of anabaptists.
In short - not only was Luther responsible for hanging and persecution of his fellow brothers and sisters, he was responsible for calumny.
The other part - is that I saw that I had been lied to by many folks I trusted about what the Catholic church believed. So I endeavoured to start from the beginning. What did the Church teach and why - what does the catechism say, and why? Why does the Catholic church state. I made a list - rather long, of the doctrinal issues between me and the Catholic church. And I went through them one by one. That winter I receieved Mere Christianity, and tore that book apart.
I went to RCIA for one year just to find out more about the catholic church. That summer, after the classes, I received Scott hahn’s Rome Sweet Home. Scott Hahn was able to explain to me much of Catholic doctrine in a way that made sense. It all fits together.
The last hurdle ended up being the very first one - rebaptism. I went to RCIA the next year and worked on that one issue exclusively. I prayed for guidance and God helped show me what I had read but never understood. The Nicene Creed states - “one baptism for the forgiveness of sins”. Rebaptism denies this doctrine - in asserting that baptism itself can be invalid.
Simon’s argument rests or falls on silence- nowhere does it say that rebaptism is permitted.
While, I, OTOH, believe much of what the RCC teaches!
It's all them things they tend to DO that really have NO solid biblical base that bothers me!
“It’s all them things they tend to DO that really have NO solid biblical base that bothers me!”
Right, things like sola fidae, sola scriptura, believers’ baptism, women’s ordination etc. Plenty of doctrines that are found no where in scripture.
sounds about right.