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1 posted on 08/17/2013 2:06:44 AM PDT by NYer
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Ping!


2 posted on 08/17/2013 2:07:10 AM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: NYer

I am nominally a Crazy Evangelical but I find myself to be a universal Christian, who recognizes the work of Jesus Christ in both Roman Catholic and Protestant/Evangelical communions.

Here’s what’s wrong, with all due respect, dear Roman Catholics.

You aren’t getting that personal salvational relationship with Jesus Christ, except as an afterthought. The church looms so big in your picture that Jesus Christ is made to look small, as if He can’t stick around without the Roman Catholic church’s constant help.

I don’t intend to delve into doctrines, but if you just make room for Jesus Christ to directly act towards your souls as you receive Him with gladness, you WILL see victory! That’s why God raised up the Protestants; He knew you had forgotten about that even though it’s spelled out in the Bible.

No, dear Roman Catholics, the Protestants don’t have everything right. But neither do you. Christ is being very forbearing here and forgiving the obstacles. But He does want to get at you directly. Try to be less full of yourselves and Christ will come in.

He did it for me and I am a Crazy Evangelical.


3 posted on 08/17/2013 2:24:05 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: NYer

It seems to me that the Pope’s strategy is to merely talk about how dead and boring Roman Catholicism seems to people. And then he offers, as if it were a solution, a new emphasis on the poor or vague notions of love, as if Catholicism is just one gigantic charity or teddy bear dedicated to social renewal, since the “old” message of an individual’s spiritual renewal isn’t meaningful any longer.

But such appeals as what color of shoes the Pope chooses to wear now only tickles the ears of self-righteous people who think that caring for the poor makes them justified, when really they are spiritually poor, and naked, and dead in their sins. The draw here isn’t on the need of salvation, but on the need to be a Catholic for social reasons. Contrast this with the Apostles who constantly preached Christ and Him crucified, not amongst people who merely thought it wasn’t meaningful to their life anymore, but to people who wanted them dead for saying it.


4 posted on 08/17/2013 2:38:02 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: NYer
I think people reject the Church because they do not make "daily" use of Her Sacraments, so they are unable to benefit from Christ's powerful (and full) Love. Who has left Catholicism who attends daily Mass, frequent Confession, and visits the Blessed Sacrament (Eucharistic Adoration) often as well? Probably very few...
6 posted on 08/17/2013 2:56:38 AM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: NYer

#8 This indoctrination starts early nowadays.


9 posted on 08/17/2013 3:23:29 AM PDT by exPBRrat
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To: NYer
Which of these reasons do you see as most significant?

#11 - The Church didn't frog-march what they knew to be pedophile priests into the waiting arms of Police and State Prosecutors so that they could be tried for sexually molesting young boys and young women. Rather, the Church chose to hide these child molesting pedophile priests by moving them from parish to parish, without so much as thinking about the victims of these heinous crimes.

That's why. It's hard to assign legitimacy to a Church that fails to protect the youngest and most vulnerable, while protecting pedophile priests.

As for the ten problems listed, IMO every church whether Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Lutheran, etc.. has those problems at one time or another. It's all in how that Church chooses to deal with the problems that keep them relevant (or not.) It's those Church's that change the message that ultimately end up losing. The message doesn't change, the message changes us.

One last comment: I was born, raised, reached communion and confirmation, and was married to my wife of 27 years in the Catholic Church. There are some incredibly good Priests and lay folks within the Church who IMO do God's work. It is a shame that #11 as I stated above continues to hang over the Church. That however is the Church's fault for not embracing the victims, and rather embracing the criminals within for so long.

11 posted on 08/17/2013 4:12:25 AM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: NYer
11. You only have to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved. (Romans 10:13)

Matthew 15: 2-6

_______________________________________________

12. Never slavishly put tradition above God's Word.

"2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied,“And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’[a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[b] 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.

15 posted on 08/17/2013 4:43:11 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: NYer

Ain’t just the Catholic Church.

Most of the ‘modern’ churches are a buncha wimps. They can’t or won’t defend themselves from attcks by: gummint, ‘society’, IRS, Muzzies, the “educational establishment”............

Anybody hear ONE LITTLE PEEP concerning the attacks/murders/kidnappings of Christ ians the WORLD OVER???

Howsabout the burning/destruction of churches damn dear EVERYWHERE (NOT just in the ME).

Time for some pushback—Beecher’s Bibles (if you know your history) and jen-you-wine Christian Soldiers. Well, where the hell is it?


16 posted on 08/17/2013 4:45:25 AM PDT by Flintlock ("The redcoats are coming" -- TO SEIZE OUR GUNS!!--Paul Revere)
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To: NYer

These reasons are wimpy reasons. These reasons do not really touch on the real issue.

The Catholic Church has not made it clear that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church since Vatican II. It is too busy running around making nice-nice with false religions sending the implicit message that you don’t need to be Catholic.

Yes, the Church teaches that others “can” be saved through the mercy of God (but not through other religions). The surest way if one keeps oneself in a state of grace is through the Catholic Church.

I know there are many on this site who believe otherwise and I’m not interested in arguing this doctrine. I’m only pointing out that the VII Church has not been sending the signal that the Catholic Church is the ONE true church for 50 years.

There are consequences for that.


18 posted on 08/17/2013 5:01:23 AM PDT by piusv
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To: NYer; All
With all due respect, I did not read it as Catholic OR non-Catholic.

One line in the Apostle's Creed says, I believe in the holy catholic church. The word "catholic" is not capitalized because it means the Christian church universal, not a particular denomination.

IMO, Pope Francis' words are relevant to ALL Christians and ALL churches everywhere. The church and the Gospel of Jesus Christ must become more relevant in people's lives. That's how we make believers, and that's how we'll turn our nation around and back to the Lord.

(PS: I'm a Methodist.)

22 posted on 08/17/2013 5:58:25 AM PDT by Prov3456
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To: NYer

As I see it, many do know know how to love God and our neighbors as Jesus told us.

The Church has not effectively lived this message.

We are all sinners, yet there is a selfishness that inhibits us from recognizing our sins and accepting God’s Love and the happiness that comes with our relationship with God.


28 posted on 08/17/2013 6:44:14 AM PDT by ADSUM
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To: NYer

Sounds like the similar list of reasons why the Republican party needs to ‘change’ in order to garner more supporters.


31 posted on 08/17/2013 7:19:52 AM PDT by joethedrummer
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To: All
Pope Francis offered ten specific reasons:
1. The Church no longer offers anything meaningful or important.
2. The Church appears too weak.
3. The Church appears too distant from their needs.
4. The Church appears too poor to respond to their concerns.
5. The Church appears too cold.
6. The Church appears too caught up with itself.
7. The Church appears to be a prisoner of its own rigid formulas.
8. The world seems to have made the Church a relic of the past.
9. The Church appears unfit to answer the world's new questions.
10. The Church speaks to people in their infancy but not when they come of age.

Note what doesn't appear in the list. The Catholic Church uses Jesus Christ and the Bible as afterthoughts.

39 posted on 08/17/2013 8:30:21 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Thus, my opponent's argument falls.")
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To: NYer

To me, only number eight of these is true that the world has relegated the Church as useless.


40 posted on 08/17/2013 8:30:43 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer
When I think of "The Church", I don't think of the Church Jesus built upon the rock of Peter, however He meant that. I think of a rigid, dogmatic, highly structured and ritualistic institution that I am not welcome in until I learn all of the rituals, and even then, I'll be on probation as an outsider, not really belonging. Probably says more about me, than the Catholic church, but that's my honest answer.

When I think of the Protestants, I think of an anything goes sort of place, except there'll be no talk of Jesus' Mother Mary except at Christmas, or spiritual miracles such as Mary appearing to many around the world, or even Jesus, for that matter. They're more open to anyone and some even open to any lifestyle, but not so open to the various reported spiritual manifestations around the world, or modern prophecies or warnings.

When I think of the orthodox, I really don't know much about them, but they seem more ritualistic like the Catholics than the Protestants. I have heard that they observe the correct date for Easter.

As I watch the various factions shooting poison arrows at each other from their positions of superiority, I've come to feel somewhat blessed to have not been born into a religious family. I've not had much indoctrination of faith to overcome while looking everywhere to find my own answers.

As a friend used to say of the world's religions: "They all have a piece of the Truth."

I recently read the book "Shocked by the Bible" and have wondered what else we have wrong.

In the messages recorded in "True Life in God" Jesus speaks about putting His Body back together after we have ripped His Body apart.

He has His Work to do! We rebellious humans are going to fight Him and not let Him put His Church back together.

Apparently, He has a surprise for us that will make many see things His way who don't now. He hasn't stopped loving each of us, not even for a microsecond. (Just don't make Dad put His Judge hat on.)

45 posted on 08/17/2013 8:48:03 AM PDT by GBA (Our obamanation: Romans 1:18-32)
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To: NYer

I think he is spot on about not only the Roman denomination, but every Church of every kind.


51 posted on 08/17/2013 9:13:55 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws - Tacituss)
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To: NYer

Strange, but I don’t see “Church doesn’t actually believe anything and is just about raising money” in that list. Let’s be honest, for most people the Church looks like just another professional panhandling organization. Every week the priest goes up and tells jokes and the people sing self-promoting and self-celebrating songs which are banal and pointless, and then everybody walks up for a cracker. (That is, after all, the impression one would get from the way Communion is treated by all, including priests and bishops.) The holiest and most important part of the Mass these days is the offertory, when the real god Money is honored. The priest will also actually get a bit worked up when giving a rousing homily about how people don’t give enough money and the church is having a hard time paying the bills. After all, how can they continue doing the hard work of begging for more money if they can’t get enough money to keep the building air conditioned? Who would give money in those conditions?

Sorry, but if the Church wants to inspire people to believe then it first has to act like it believes. The Eucharist will never be seen as holy unless it is treated like it is holy in the liturgy and by those who represent the Church most, i.e. priests, bishops and popes. It is not about “rigid formulas” or being “a relic of the past” but the opposite. The more “relevant” the Church becomes the less meaningful it actually will be, and, frankly, this pope is very relevant. Worship requires reverence and a continual focus on God. If we are going to say that we think God is present in the substance of the Eucharist, but then act just like we do when we eat at Shoney’s when in His presence, then what does that mean? Either we don’t think His presence means much, or that He Himself doesn’t mean much, or we don’t really believe what we say. That converts nobody, and brings nobody to God, and that is the modern Church. Relevance, when it comes to faith and worship, is irrelevant.


65 posted on 08/17/2013 10:27:36 AM PDT by cothrige
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To: NYer

I find it interesting that the Emmaus experience is mentioned as an example of people who “leave the church.” These were disciples of Jesus, confused by the turn of events and heading home. Jesus, hidden from the them, joins their journey and asks about their conversation (of course he knew exactly what they were discussing). The disciples told the stranger about Jesus, the crucifixion, and the reports from the women of seeing him alive. It was at this point the stranger takes them on a journey through the Scriptures, explaining God’s plan and purpose for sending Jesus. This continued until they reached their destination, where they begged the stranger to stay with them. After breaking bread with them, the disciples recognized that it was Jesus. And they both confessed,

“Weren’t our hearts ablaze within us while He was talking with us on the road and explaining the Scriptures to us?” Luke 24:32 (HCSB)

Jesus was teaching the Word. When you spend time in the Word (with Jesus), you will experience the same thing. When you are in a church where an anointed minister is teaching the Word, you will experience the same thing. Preach the Word boldly, and you will see results. The Word is Alive and Truth. You diminish the Word at your own peril. The churches that are spiritually alive, growing, and changing lives, are the ones that are teaching the Word.

At various times in my life I have had the pleasure of visiting a multitude of churches and denominations. I have met Born Again, Spirit-filled believers in all groups. And I have noticed what a difference a Spirit-filled teacher can make. However, even if you are in a dead church, you have no excuse. God will pour water on a thirsty ground (Isaiah 44:3). If your Bible collects dust on the nightstand, you will not grow spiritually. If your church teaches social justice, or good works, you will become malnourished spiritually. You need fresh Manna, fresh Revelation and Wisdom for every day.

Jesus stands at the door and knocks. He does not kick the door in. Let him in, making him Savior and Lord individually, and for the church family.


70 posted on 08/17/2013 12:29:23 PM PDT by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: NYer

I’m going with #3


75 posted on 08/17/2013 2:04:56 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: NYer
Which of these reasons do you see as most significant?

?

Why CHOOSE???


However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?

Luke 18:8

96 posted on 08/17/2013 5:13:25 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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