Skip to comments.Baptist pastor open to same-sex unions
Posted on 08/27/2013 7:17:07 PM PDT by wonkowasright
An Alabama Baptist pastor says she is reconsidering her previous policy of not performing marriage-like commitment services for same-sex couples.
Sarah Shelton, pastor of Baptist Church of the Covenant in Birmingham, Ala., since 2002, said in her Sunday morning sermon Aug. 25 that until now when asked to officiate at same-sex unions she would refer gay and lesbian couples to one of the 30-plus other ordained clergy in the church.
(Excerpt) Read more at abpnews.com ...
As far as I had to read.
Makes me consider going back to the Independent Fundamentalist Baptists.
Didn’t the SBC practically ignore the homosexual invasion of the Boy Scouts? If they fold on this issue, they’ll be biting dust before the weekend. People want the TRUTH. Not lies.
The SBC does not monitor member churches. It only knows what it is told by the member churches.
Feel free to report this information to the local association, whatever it is. I live in Arizona, not Alabama. IIRC, an SBC member church will need to object to this church seating any delegates at the next convention in order for anything to be done.
Meanwhile, the SBC position on women in the ministry and homosexuality is pretty clear:
“While Scripture teaches that a woman’s role is not identical to that of men in every respect, and that pastoral leadership is assigned to men, it also teaches that women are equal in value to men.”
“We affirm God’s plan for marriage and sexual intimacy one man, and one woman, for life. Homosexuality is not a “valid alternative lifestyle.” The Bible condemns it as sin.”
“Baptist Church of the Covenants affiliations include the Alliance of Baptists, Cooperative Baptist Fellowship and Alabama Baptist Convention. The Alliance supports full inclusion of church members regardless of sexual orientation. The Atlanta-based CBF does not hire openly gay staff or missionaries but leaves matters like ordination or same-sex marriage up to the local church.”
I never left (no condemnation on my part, just stating a fact).
Even that might not be the answer. There are many Independent Fundamentalist Baptists churches that have female Pastors and accept homosexual marriages.
Anyone can be ordained (online and through liberal ministries), start a church and call it a Baptist congregation. Outside the SBC, there is no governing body to control who can call themselves Baptists and open a Baptist church. So, care must be taken in church selection.
Sad, sad world we live in.
Yup. Me too.
Pastor and she don’t belong.
Our local Baptist church is involved with “Royal Amabassadors”. NOT BSA.
An Alabama Baptist pastor says she
As far as I had to read.
More evidence that the Apostle Paul was correct-
Liberal Baptists: abortions are OK, women pastors are OK, denying the infallibility of Scripture is OK, homosexuality is OK but infant baptism is wrong? :? I cannot wrap my head around that perspective.
and yet the Apostle Phillip had 4 DAUGHTERS which were Prophetess which means that they PREACHED.
This particular so called Baptist Precher needs to study the Bible, homosexuality is a stench in the nostrils of God.
And some of y’all here, where women are concerned need to as well.
No, just means they prophesied, which is to foretell or predict upcoming events.
Yep. That is the source of the problem right there.
When a woman is put into the pulpit that is UNBIBLICAL and should cause believers to flee a church.
Female pastor. ‘Nuff said.
“and yet the Apostle Phillip had 4 DAUGHTERS which were Prophetess which means that they PREACHED.”
As long as they were not in authority over men, then their preaching was in accordance with Scripture.
It also has the meaning of discerning God’s word and being able to impart it correctly to others. My asterisks around the pertinent sentence. This is one of my gifts of the Spirit, but has long been in disuse.
Although the “prophet” often foretold the future, “he was more a `forth-teller’ than , a `foreteller.’”(2)
******Summarizing, Charles Hodge suggests, “To prophesy, in Scripture, is accordingly, to speak under divine inspiration; not merely to predict future events, but to deliver, as the organ of the Holy Ghost, the messages of God to men, whether in the form of doctrine, exhortation, consolation, or prediction.”*******
(3) We can gain some insight into the role of the New Testament prophet by examining his Old Testament counterpart. The essential meaning of the word “prophet” readily is seen in Exodus 4:16; God told Moses that Aaron would be his “spokesman . . . a mouth.” As a prophet, Aaron was a “mouth” for the reluctant Moses. A prophet of God would then be a mouth of God. Homer Hailey suggests that when God raised up a prophet, “He would put His words in the prophet’s mouth and that the prophet would speak them in His name (Deut. 18:9-22).”(4)
Interesting discussion, would love to continue, but the meds are kicking in and I will be going to bed soon.
1 Cor ch 14 vs 14-15.
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
I actually attended a fellowship event at this church back around 2004-05. I left the Episcopal Church in NOV 2003, after being a member for 48 years, when it consecrated the homosexual Diocese of New Hampshire bishop Gene Robinson. My future wife was a member of the Disciples of Christ/The Christian Church which was how I ended up at the Baptist Church of the Covenant this evening. This fellowship meeting was between BCoC, DoC, and the UCC. The female pastor (1st red flag) led the fellowship. It was made very clear that they were totally inclusive of homosexuals (2nd red flag). Then I came to learn that the BCoC and the UCC were in communion (3rd red flag). Of course so are the UCC and the DoC.
My shadow did not darken that dooryard again, and I began doing more research on Christian denomonations. We also left the DoC and joined a Lutheran-Missouri Synod parish.
5 Didnt the SBC practically ignore the homosexual invasion of the Boy Scouts? If they fold on this issue, theyll be biting dust before the weekend. People want the TRUTH. Not lies.
No, the SBC led the fight out in front of all of Christendom against the BSA passing the new membership standard to allow open homosexual youth into the BSA. The SBC at its annual convention in Houston, TX, passed a resolution on 6/12/2013 (about 3 weeks after the BSA passed its new membership standard) expressing its "opposition to and disappointment in" the membership policy of the BSA but affirming the freedom of local churches to determine their own relationships with the national Scouting organization.
The SBC denomination is about 6th in size of the leading denominatiions which charter BSA units. So, while it was right to take its position, the progressives in the BSA National Executive Board knew that the SBC did not have the influence to sway other denominatiions. Many SBC churches have already dropped their units. More will do so by 1/01/2014 when the new BSA membership standard officially takes effect.
It doesn’t mean they were pastors.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
“She” is all I need to know.
I think you mean 1 Corinthians 14: 34-35.
In Baptist churches, women are allowed to preach and teach the bible and have ministries over other women and children but are not allowed to act as pastors in authority over men and the church body as a whole. That role is the pastor and is reserved for men. But that is also not to say that women cannot be called upon to address the church body at times.
Pastor is a role reserved for men. Preacher is a role that can be held by women.
And since this is a thread regarding a Baptist pastor (not preacher), I will reference Dr. Charles Stanley, Pastor of the First Baptist Church of Atlanta, GA.
If more explanation is needed, then I will be happy to reference the notes from my Life Application Bible.
For instance, the notes re: 1 Corinthians 14: 34-35 state:
Does this mean that women should not speak in church services today? It is clear from 11:5 that women can pray and prophesy in the church, apparently in public meetings. It is also clear in chapters 12-14 that women have spiritual gifts, and they are encouraged to exercise them in the body of Christ.
In the Corinthian culture, women were not allowed to confront men in public. Apparently some of the women who had become Christians thought their Christian freedom gave them the right to speak up in public worship and question the men. This was causing division in the church. In addition, women of that day did not receive formal religious education as did the men. Women may have been raising questions in the worship service which could have more easily been answered at home without disrupting the church service. To promote unity, Paul was asking the women not to flaunt their Christian freedom during the worship service. The purpose of Paul’s words here was to promote unity, not to teach about women’s role in the church.
And notes from 1 Timothy 2: 9-15 say, To understand these verses, we must understand the situation in which Paul and Timothy worked. In first-century Jewish culture, women were not allowed to study. When Paul said women should learn quietly and humbly, he was offering them new opportunities. Paul did not want the Ephesian women to teach because they didn’t yet have enough knowledge or experience. The Ephesian church had a particular problem with false teachers. Evidently the women were especially susceptible to their teaching (2 Timothy 3:1-9), because they did not yet have enough biblical knowledge to see thru the false claims. In addition, some of the women were flaunting their new-found Christian freedom by wearing inappropriate clothing (2:9-10). Paul was telling Timothy not to put anyone (in this case, women) into positions of leadership who were not yet mature in the faith (see 5:22). The same principle applies to churches today.
Wish I had meds for sleep myself and then I would not be up in the middle of the night writing my replies here.
I stopped at..... “her”...?
Remember that anyone can call themselves a Baptist, there is no legal authority.
SBC churches are all independent agents but these types of member churches should be expelled.
I believe the only “authority” in a church should be God, no one in the church is above anyone else.
I don’t believe in woman pastors and never will. Have no problem with them spreading the word but will never attend a church with a female pastor. Things like this are why!
1 Corinthians 11:3, But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
God has made the following order: Himself, Jesus, man, and then woman. Each mutually submitting to the one in authority above them. And by submission I do not mean subservient. I mean mutual cooperation as in both the man and woman using their individual spiritual gifts to cooperate and bring unity to the home and the church.
From the notes of my bible, The principle behind Paul’s words is submission, which is a key element in the smooth functioning of any business, government, or family. God ordained submission in certain relationships to prevent chaos. It is essential to understand that submission is not surrender, withdrawal, or apathy. It does not mean inferiority, because God created all people in His image and all have equal value. Submission is mutual commitment and cooperation.
Thus God calls for submission among equals. He did not make the man superior; he made a way for a husband and wife to work together. Jesus Christ, although equal with God the Father, submitted to Him to carry out the plan for salvation. Likewise, although equal to man under God, the wife should submit to her husband for the sake of her marriage and their family. Submission between equals is submission by choice, not by force.
The woman in the OP’s article is obviously not in authority or submission to anyone other than herself, political correctness, and Satan.
Here are some of the verses listed under Women in the Master Index of my Life Application Study Bible.
Equality with men in creation, Genesis 1:27
Have different roles but same goals as men, Genesis 2:18-24
Gift of prophecy given to, Acts 21:9
Had important roles in early church, Romans 16:1-2
Equality with men, 1 Corinthians 11:3
Can they speak in church services today?, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Should they be allowed to teach in the church?, 1 Timothy 2:12
Why they were a target for false teachers, 1 Timothy 2:9-15; 2 Timothy 3:6-7
Haven’t yet met a woman “pastor” who is a Christian.
Thanks for that very precise analysis.
You are welcome. If you followed my link to the VA stuff in late 2012, with its link to the Texas Baptists you can see there is something larger happening thats being quietly ignored.
Having positions voted that are not enforced is the same as not having positions.
I’m no longer a baptist for other reasons but watch this with dismay as I want the baptists to stay strong on the social issues.
“An Alabama Baptist pastor says “she”” “SHE” huh, “Houston, WE HAVE A PROBLEM”!
You're right of course.
I'm not sure how that happened, but it was probably due the late hour (or early hour, depending on the time zone) here in the East and I'm not a "night person". It was almost 2AM EDT when I wrote that post and I was still up only because what few little grey cells I still have at age 76 were only semi-functional due to having been repeatedly assaulted by excessive doses of caffeine.
However, although I hold the opinions of Dr. Stanley in high regard, I still maintain that the epistles that Paul wrote to the churches of his day by inspiration of the Holy Spirit (as do both Dr. Stanley and no doubt yourself as well) and that the instructions he gave to the churches of his day in his letters were and still are applicable to the Church as the whole body of believers from those of Paul's day and time until Christ returns bodily to rule as King of all the earth.
Over the span of the Christian portion of my lifetime (60+ years) I have learned by experience that arguments between fellow Christians concerning interpretation of scripture seldom change any minds, but they can and often do alienate brothers and sisters in Christ and that's not a good thing. Having said all that, I won't I won't try to argue the point regarding women speaking in the church. Thanks for correcting my mistake, I pray that you will have a blessed day.
Thanks for the reply, epow.
I am a night person so that’s probably why I caught it.
My only comment re: what you wrote is that one must take those verses in context and it’s clear by others in the same chapter that women had a role to play in the church and therefore needed careful instruction before they could participate. It’s as clear as day to me, but as you said we can agree to disagree.
That said, this woman in the OP’s post is CLEARLY not in authority to God or anyone but herself. She is way off the beaten track. I think we can agree on that.