Posted on 08/31/2013 3:38:44 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
Full interview (roughly one hour) with former Roman Catholic priests Richard Bennett (website: http://www.BEREANBEACON.ORG) & Bartholomew Brewer, Ph.D, author of "Pilgrimage from Rome - A Testimony" (website: http://www.MTC.COM) and former nun Rocio Zwirner give glory to God for their exodus from the Roman Catholic Church & into the glorious grace of the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ. (Description from youtube)
Good for you. Mine still looks like she is in her 20s, because she IS. -:)
So when Catholics say they profess the Nicene Creed we are to realize they really don’t?
“You are - apparently - digging your hole deeper by cutting and pasting from more websites without admitting you used a banned one.”
I don’t even remember there even being a hole about such a thing. I think this is more a manifestation of your desperation just talking to talk.
“just before you punched Brewer in the face.”
I think you want to punch Brewer in the face, but I am not so sure it has anything to do with him chatting with any high school girls from a story he himself offered from his life. I’m pretty sure it has more to do with him not being Catholic anymore, and so you want us all to imagine him there groping her and planning to commit statutory rape.
“There’s no way Brewer could go through all of THOSE MONTHS of ministry training for the SDA and only discover sometime afterward what they really teach about E. G. White when it is plain from their publically accessible literature at the time.”
How do you know the SDA always tells its members that White’s words are allegedly equal to scripture? There are plenty of people in that “denomination” who are not privy to every single claim their Prophetess has made. Same thing with the Mormons. Same thing with the Catholics. Ask a Catholic today whether or not their religion always taught freedom of religion, and they probably wouldn’t be aware that they have Popes as recently as the 19th century damning the entire concept.
Isn’t that just an assumption on your part on what he had or had not heard? And you have no evidence that he was lying at all, except that you desire that he is a liar? It’s not like anyone was confronting him about it either. You’re literally using his own testimony about his life, his premature entrance into the SDA, his dabbling with the Charismatics for a little while, and then his eventual leaving as he grew in knowledge.
It’s my duty to inform you that you seem more desperate than sure about anything you say.
So, what else do you have against Brewer? Your first two attempts have been pretty lame.
“Since his statement was not part of the ordinary magisterium and it wasn’t an ex cathedra pronouncement I really don’t care what he said.”
So much for the “Successor of Peter,” eh?
Your catechism says
“841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330
The plan of salvation includes those who acknowledge the creator, in the first place... Muslims.
Just so you know, there is no plan of salvation outside of Christianity.
This also doesn’t change the fact that you’re wrong about Christianity, the Pope and his tongue kissing of a Koran, and Brewer.
“So when Catholics say they profess the Nicene Creed we are to realize they really don’t?”
Your questions makes no sense. The Nicene Creed’s doctrines are all professed by Catholics.
Why would I bother reading or hearing about people who have no perseverance in the faith? If they cannot be faithful, what benefit, to me, can come from following their unfaithfulness?
“Why would I bother reading or hearing about people who have no perseverance in the faith? If they cannot be faithful, what benefit, to me, can come from following their unfaithfulness?”
To encourage you to be unfaithful to the Roman Catholic Church, of course. What truth is there in a religion that denies that perseverance is the gift of God, and not from your own native merit? Such a religion has certainly lost all claims to being the church of God, much like the Jews who gloried in their succession lost it at their apostasy.
“All our good merits are only wrought in us by grace, and -when God crowns our merits, he crowns nothing but his own gifts. (Augustine, Letter 194)
“Have just men, then, no merits? Certainly they have, because they are righteous. But they were not made righteous by merits. For they are made righteous when they are justified, but as the apostle says, they are justified freely by his grace.” (Ibid)
“I assert, therefore, that the perseverance by which we persevere in Christ even to the end is the gift of God; and I call that the end by which is finished that life wherein alone there is peril of falling.” (Augustine, On the Perseverance of the Saints)
“But of such as these [the Elect] none perishes, because of all that the Father has given Him, He will lose none. John 6:39 Whoever, therefore, is of these does not perish at all; nor was any who perishes ever of these. For which reason it is said, They went out from among us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would certainly have continued with us. John 2:19”. (Augustine, Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints)
“For who makes thee to differ, and what has thou that thou hast not received?” (1 Cor. iv. 7). Our merits therefore do not cause us to differ, but grace. For if it be merit, it is a debt; and if it be a debt, it is not gratuitous; and if it be not gratuitous, it is not grace. (Augustine, Sermon 293)
“I don’t even remember there even being a hole about such a thing. I think this is more a manifestation of your desperation just talking to talk.”
Okay, let’s see: Post the website from which you got the long Brewer quote.
“I think you want to punch Brewer in the face, but I am not so sure it has anything to do with him chatting with any high school girls from a story he himself offered from his life.”
Chatting? He said they “stole” time alone. He said he “interpreted” their “affection” as “love”. And you get “chatting” out of that?
“I’m pretty sure it has more to do with him not being Catholic anymore, and so you want us all to imagine him there groping her and planning to commit statutory rape.”
I don’t care what you imagine about Brewer. Imagine whatever you like, but there’s no way, they were just “chatting” if he thought they were in love. Apparently you’re already imagining quite a bit.
“How do you know the SDA always tells its members that White’s words are allegedly equal to scripture?”
How do you know they don’t? Have you ever read their old literature from the 50s and 60s? I read some. It’s there. And do you think you could be an SDA minister and not know that?
“There are plenty of people in that “denomination” who are not privy to every single claim their Prophetess has made.”
And how many ministers of the SDA would not know one of the foundational beliefs of that denomination? Think before you answer.
“Same thing with the Mormons.”
No. You will not find the equivalent of a pastor in Mormonism (and I realize there is no direct equivalent) who does not know that the LDS teaches the writings of Joseph Smith are scripture.
“Same thing with the Catholics. Ask a Catholic today whether or not their religion always taught freedom of religion, and they probably wouldn’t be aware that they have Popes as recently as the 19th century damning the entire concept.”
The question to ask would be this: Are both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition authoritative in the Church. And every priest (the equivalent of a minister) would know the answer is yes.
If you’re going to make analogies, make them correctly. I realize many public schools stink, but these are basic skills.
“It’s my duty to inform you that you seem more desperate than sure about anything you say.”
Okay, post the source of the original quote - the long passage - from Brewer that you posted. When you don’t do it, and I think it’s obvious you won’t, I think we’ll see something.
“So, what else do you have against Brewer? Your first two attempts have been pretty lame.”
No, I have been absolutely correct all along. What is pretty lame is how you won’t post the source of the original quote - the long passage - from Brewer that you posted. Care to explain that? Are you desperately looking for an actual copy of the book?
I was unaware there were any members of the Know Nothing Party still alive much less posting threads on the Free Republic.
“So much for the “Successor of Peter,” eh?”
No.
“Your catechism says
.... these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
Right. PROFESS. The second statement is in relation to the first and is conditional in relation to it.
“Just so you know, there is no plan of salvation outside of Christianity.”
So, you’re saying the Jews never existed? They are outside of Christianity.
“This also doesn’t change the fact that you’re wrong about Christianity, the Pope and his tongue kissing of a Koran, and Brewer.”
I’m not wrong about Christianity, the Pope, or Brewer.
But you apparently aren’t going to post the source of the original quote - the long passage - from Brewer that you posted. Care to explain that? Are you desperately looking for an actual copy of the book?
The usual reason - sin, and the desires thereto. Sad, very sad.
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
Amen.
“To encourage you to be unfaithful to the Roman Catholic Church, of course.”
There ya go. Apostacy personified. Very sad.
“Chatting? He said they “stole” time alone. He said he “interpreted” their “affection” as “love”. And you get “chatting” out of that?”
Wow, your desperation is palpable. There is no indication of any physical intimacy between them, or even any indication that he planned to break his vow of chastity. That’s just what you wished happened since you hate Brewer.
“And how many ministers of the SDA would not know one of the foundational beliefs of that denomination? Think before you answer.”
Apparently lots. Think before you ask me stupid questions.
“There are a myriad of reasons for why people leave the SDA Church, but in recent years, one reason has begun to stand out above all others: Knowledge. With easy access to the Internet, Adventist members have at their fingertips a wealth of knowledge about the teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Thanks to former SDA ministers such as Elder Dale Ratzlaff, Elder Sydney Cleveland, Elder Walter Rea, Dr. Desmond Ford, and many others, a wealth of knowledge regarding the fallacies of Seventh-day Adventism is now available to anyone willing to take the time and effort to study their religion.
Adventists are often sucked into the SDA Church through cleverly disguised and advertised evangelistic campaigns held in a public locations with no mention that the meetings are organized by Seventh-day Adventists. The multimedia presentations are designed to appeal to the senses and the emotions. End-time prophecies are presented in such a way as to arouse alarm and fear. Participants are bombarded with proof texts and one-sided arguments until they are convinced of the necessity of joining God’s “one and only true remnant” church: Seventh-day Adventism.
Later, after the rush of excitement fades, these new Adventists start asking questions. It is not long before it dawns on many of these new arrivals that all may not be exactly as they had been told. Cracks begin to appear in the once-thought-to-be ironclad presentations of SDA Bible prophecy. They start asking questions, and instead of getting answers, they find that their questions are getting dodged. They soon discover there is a large and growing segment of Adventists who do not believe in Ellen White, or the peculiar SDA views of Bible prophecy. And yet, these are often the very reason the new arrivals joined the SDA Church! It is not long before they discover there are different factions in the SDA Church, each with their own idea of “truth”. As they begin examining the SDA doctrines more closely, they soon discover that there is a BIG difference between Bible Truth and SDA truth. More and more, Adventists are now “studying their way out” of Adventism.”
http://www.nonsda.org/sda_losing_members.shtml
“Okay, post the source of the original quote - the long passage - from Brewer that you posted. When you don’t do it, and I think it’s obvious you won’t, I think we’ll see something.”
I copied and pasted it from Brewer’s website. I think all you’ll see staring back at you is your own desperation.
“So, you’re saying the Jews never existed? They are outside of Christianity.”
Jews today are still in their sins outside of Christianity. As are Muslims. There is no “plan of salvation” that includes separate religions.
Of course it does. You made the claim that the RCC say that Muslims only “profess” to serve the same God. Did you not mean by that that the RCC does not believe that they do? So it simply follows that you believe the simply “professing” something does not mean it’s true. Therefore, it follows that if Catholics “profess” the Nicene Creed it is not necessarily so.
“I copied and pasted it from Brewer’s website. I think all you’ll see staring back at you is your own desperation.”
Great. Post the link please.
As does the RCC claim that Muslims “profess” the same God as they do.
# 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]
“There is no “plan of salvation” that includes separate religions.”
So Jesus - the Savior - was not raised as a Jew?
“As does the RCC claim that Muslims “profess” the same God as they do.”
Are you saying that Muslims do not “profess to hold the faith of Abraham”?
Nothing that you posted about the SDA suggested that there were ORDAINED SDA MINISTERS decades ago who did not know EG White’s standing in the SDA.
Seriously, you keep trying this misdirection thing where you post one thing as if it was another. Remember, Brewer was an SDA MINISTER and he made a specific claim. Nothing you posted dealt with that claim nor was it about decades ago.
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