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Francis: War is Always a Defeat for Humanity (100,000+ attend Vatican vigil)
Vatican Radio ^ | September 7, 2013

Posted on 09/07/2013 2:27:28 PM PDT by NYer


People attend a prayer calling for peace in Syria leaded by Pope Francis in Saint Peter's square at the Vatican September 7, 2013. Pope Francis has invited people of all faiths to join a day of fasting and prayer to call for an end to the conflict in Syria on Saturday. REUTERS/Tony Gentile


Vatican City, 7 September 2013 (VIS) – More than a hundred thousand people gathered in St- Peter's Square this evening in response to Pope Francis' appeal during last Sunday's Angelus in which he convoked for today, 7 September, a day of fasting and prayer for peace, in the light of the dramatic circumstances which have engulfed Syria. Since then, this initiative has been welcomed and applauded not only by Catholics and other Christian confessions, but also by those belonging to other religions, from Buddhists to Jews and Muslims, and even those who do not belong to any religion. This week has seen extensive mobilisation on the part of parishes and associations, Caritas and the Community of St. Egidio, prayer groups and religious orders such as the Descalced Carmelites of the Holy Land, mayors and presidents of autonomous regions, organisations for peace, co-operation and development, unions, and so on. Many prominent figures have joined in with the initiative, such as the architect Renzo Piano, the president of the European Parliament Martin Schulz and the Grand Mufti of Syria, spiritual leader of the Sunnis, who invoked peace this afternoon in the Ummayad Mosque, Damascus, with the nation's religious leaders. A prayer for peace was raised this afternoon in Catholic churches around the world, from Australia to Egypt.

The Square was crowded with people since the morning; among them there were many who wished to confess, from 5.45 onwards, to one of the fifty priests in the Constantine Wing and below the colonnade; Francis wanted confessors to be present on this day as “true peace is born of the human heart reconciled with God and with one's brothers”. At 18.30, the words uttered by the Pope last Sunday were repeated as an introduction to the Vigil which began at 7 p.m. with a greeting from the Pope and the singing of the “Veni Creator”, followed by the enthroning of the image of the Virgin as “Salus Populi Romani”, carried by four Swiss Guards.

The Pope began by praying the Rosary; each mystery was accompanied by the reading of a poem by St. Therese of Lisieux about the child Jesus, and at the end he invoked Maria: “Queen of Peace, pray for us”. He then pronounced the following homily:

'And God saw that it was good'. The biblical account of the beginning of the history of the world and of humanity speaks to us of a God who looks at creation, in a sense contemplating it, and declares: 'it is good'. This, dear brothers and sisters, allows us to enter into God’s heart and, precisely from within him, to receive his message. We can ask ourselves: what does this message mean? What does it say to me, to you, to all of us?

It says to us simply that this, our world, in the heart and mind of God, is the 'house of harmony and peace', and that it is the space in which everyone is able to find their proper place and feel 'at home', because it is 'good'. All of creation forms a harmonious and good unity, but above all humanity, made in the image and likeness of God, is one family, in which relationships are marked by a true fraternity not only in words: the other person is a brother or sister to love, and our relationship with God, who is love, fidelity and goodness, mirrors every human relationship and brings harmony to the whole of creation. God’s world is a world where everyone feels responsible for the other, for the good of the other. This evening, in reflection, fasting and prayer, each of us deep down should ask ourselves: Is this really the world that I desire? Is this really the world that we all carry in our hearts? Is the world that we want really a world of harmony and peace, in ourselves, in our relations with others, in families, in cities, in and between nations? And does not true freedom mean choosing ways in this world that lead to the good of all and are guided by love?

But then we wonder: Is this the world in which we are living? Creation retains its beauty which fills us with awe and it remains a good work. But there is also 'violence, division, disagreement, war'. This occurs when man, the summit of creation, stops contemplating beauty and goodness, and withdraws into his own selfishness.

When man thinks only of himself, of his own interests and places himself in the centre, when he permits himself to be captivated by the idols of dominion and power, when he puts himself in God’s place, then all relationships are broken and everything is ruined; then the door opens to violence, indifference, and conflict. This is precisely what the passage in the Book of Genesis seeks to teach us in the story of the Fall: man enters into conflict with himself, he realizes that he is naked and he hides himself because he is afraid, he is afraid of God’s glance; he accuses the woman, she who is flesh of his flesh; he breaks harmony with creation, he begins to raise his hand against his brother to kill him. Can we say that from harmony he passes to 'disharmony'? Can we say this: that from harmony he passes to 'disharmony'? No, there is no such thing as 'disharmony'; there is either harmony or we fall into chaos, where there is violence, argument, conflict, fear.

It is exactly in this chaos that God asks man’s conscience: “Where is Abel your brother?” and Cain responds: 'I do not know; am I my brother’s keeper?'. We too are asked this question, it would be good for us to ask ourselves as well: Am I really my brother’s keeper? Yes, you are your brother’s keeper! To be human means to care for one another! But when harmony is broken, a metamorphosis occurs: the brother who is to be cared for and loved becomes an adversary to fight, to kill. What violence occurs at that moment, how many conflicts, how many wars have marked our history! We need only look at the suffering of so many brothers and sisters. This is not a question of coincidence, but the truth: we bring about the rebirth of Cain in every act of violence and in every war. All of us! And even today we continue this history of conflict between brothers, even today we raise our hands against our brother. Even today, we let ourselves be guided by idols, by selfishness, by our own interests, and this attitude persists. We have perfected our weapons, our conscience has fallen asleep, and we have sharpened our ideas to justify ourselves. As if it were normal, we continue to sow destruction, pain, death! Violence and war lead only to death, they speak of death! Violence and war are the language of death!

After the chaos of the Flood, when it stopped raining, a rainbow appeared and the dove returned with an olive branch. I think also of the olive tree which representatives of various religions planted in Plaza de Mayo, in Buenos Aires, in 2000, asking that there be no more chaos, asking that there be no more war, asking for peace.

And at this point I ask myself: Is it possible to walk the path of pace? Can we get out of this spiral of sorrow and death? Can we learn once again to walk and live in the ways of peace? Invoking the help of God, under the maternal gaze of the Salus Populi Romani, Queen of Peace, I say: Yes, it is possible for everyone! From every corner of the world tonight, I would like to hear us cry out: Yes, it is possible for everyone! Or even better, I would like for each one of us, from the least to the greatest, including those called to govern nations, to respond: Yes, we want it! My Christian faith urges me to look to the Cross. How I wish that all men and women of good will would look to the Cross if only for a moment! There, we can see God’s reply: violence is not answered with violence, death is not answered with the language of death. In the silence of the Cross, the uproar of weapons ceases and the language of reconciliation, forgiveness, dialogue, and peace is spoken. This evening, I ask the Lord that we Christians, and our brothers and sisters of other religions, and every man and woman of good will, cry out forcefully: violence and war are never the way to peace! Let everyone be moved to look into the depths of his or her conscience and listen to that word which says: Leave behind the self-interest that hardens your heart, overcome the indifference that makes your heart insensitive towards others, conquer your deadly reasoning, and open yourself to dialogue and reconciliation. Look upon your brother’s sorrow – I think of the children, look upon these - look upon your brother's sorrow, and do not add to it, stay your hand, rebuild the harmony that has been shattered; and all this not by conflict but by encounter! May the noise of weapons cease! War always marks the failure of peace, it is always a defeat for humanity. Let the words of Pope Paul VI resound again: 'No more one against the other, no more, never! ... war never again, never again war!'. 'Peace expresses itself only in peace, a peace which is not separate from the demands of justice but which is fostered by personal sacrifice, clemency, mercy and love'. Forgiveness, dialogue, reconciliation – these are the words of peace, in beloved Syria, in the Middle East, in all the world! Let us pray for reconciliation and peace, let us work for reconciliation and peace, and let us all become, in every place, men and women of reconciliation and peace! Amen”.

Following the Pope's words, a moment of silence was observed during the preparation of the altar for the exposition of the Holy Sacrament. The adoration was accompanied by a biblical reading on the theme of peace, followed by the Pope's prayer on this subject and a responsorial invocation as a plea for peace. At the end of each of those moments, five pairs of people, representing Syria, Egypt, the Holy Land, the United States and Russia, placed incense in the censer to the right of the altar. This offering was accompanied by a series of invocations on the common theme of peace, including: “Lord of life, bring to us your peace, to where the fate of nations is decided” and “Stop, with your creative power, all violence against human life”.

The adoration was followed by the reading - “in the longest form planned for the celebration of a vigil” - of the Gospel of St. John. Then, from around 10.15 to 10.40 p.m., there was a long period of silence for personal prayer.

At the conclusion of the ceremony, Pope Francis imparted his Eucharistic blessing to those present. Today, the Pope wrote to his nine million followers on Twitter, “Pray for peace”.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ministry/Outreach; Prayer
KEYWORDS: pope; syria
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1 posted on 09/07/2013 2:27:28 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 09/07/2013 2:27:53 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: NYer

3 posted on 09/07/2013 2:29:25 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

**Francis wanted confessors to be present on this day as “true peace is born of the human heart reconciled with God and with one’s brothers”.**

Imagine if that could happen on FR — true peace.


4 posted on 09/07/2013 2:31:01 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ebb tide
The Square was crowded with people since the morning; among them there were many who wished to confess, from 5.45 onwards, to one of the fifty priests in the Constantine Wing and below the colonnade; Francis wanted confessors to be present on this day as “true peace is born of the human heart reconciled with God and with one's brothers”

Do you have a problem with the Sacrament of Confession, as well?

5 posted on 09/07/2013 2:54:19 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: NYer
join a day of fasting

Crowd like that, food vendors would have made out quite well.

Pope Fail.

6 posted on 09/07/2013 2:54:33 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: NYer

Always? Really? The great final war will be waged by none other than God himself along with his Saints. Will Francis condemn God then?


7 posted on 09/07/2013 3:03:09 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: NYer

8 posted on 09/07/2013 3:08:02 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I aim to raise a million plus for Gov. Palin. What'll you do?.)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: fwdude
Always? Really? The great final war will be waged by none other than God himself along with his Saints. Will Francis condemn God then?

You no can fool me. There ain't no such thing as no Sanity Clause.


10 posted on 09/07/2013 3:08:21 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

11 posted on 09/07/2013 3:13:04 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: fwdude

There are some details that could be quibbled over. It will not be the saints who are asking for this war.

Syria is a mess of two groups of horrible sinners at one another’s throats with no clear virtuous cause favoring one side or the other. Trying to take sides there is just foolish. Obama should have given that hornets’ nest a wide berth and in principle still could.


12 posted on 09/07/2013 3:13:58 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: NYer

Hate to be the one who breaks it to you, but your Pope is very wrong. War often solves severe problems, and God has used it for His purposes many times. The Pope is apparently neither a student of history nor scripture...


13 posted on 09/07/2013 3:13:59 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Mr Rogers
Hate to be the one who breaks it to you, but your Pope is very wrong. War often solves severe problems, and God has used it for His purposes many times.

Please cite one New Testament verse that supports war.

The Pope is apparently neither a student of history nor scripture...

This statement is supported by ???

14 posted on 09/07/2013 3:28:07 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer

13 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. 2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished. 3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you. 4 The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. 5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience.

Just as government has police, it also must protect its citizens with an Army. And this was said of a Roman soldier:

“10 In Caesarea there lived a Roman army officer named Cornelius, who was a captain of the Italian Regiment. 2 He was a devout, God-fearing man, as was everyone in his household. He gave generously to the poor and prayed regularly to God.”

I also find it interesting that you want to limit things to the New Testament. Is the Old Testament not the Word of God? Was King David not a man after God’s heart?

To pretend God calls us to run around shouting “Peace! Peace!” is to ignore the scriptures and the role God requires government to play. And history shows many examples of when war did wonderful things - like free Europe from the Nazis, kept South Korea free, liberated Iraq, ended slavery in the USA, etc.


16 posted on 09/07/2013 3:37:14 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Mr Rogers
I also find it interesting that you want to limit things to the New Testament. Is the Old Testament not the Word of God?

So you are saying the New Testament is NOT the Word of God?

17 posted on 09/07/2013 3:38:53 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: NYer

World peace is a lovely sentiment, but we live in a world of fallen human beings. There are evildoers in this world, and they must be opposed. Just because we’re “nice” doesn’t mean they will be “nice” back. Sadly, the people who need to hear it most are deaf to the Holy Father’s bids for peace. We can pray but that is not enough.


18 posted on 09/07/2013 3:44:31 PM PDT by informavoracious (We're being "punished" with Stanley Ann's baby. Obamacare: shovel-ready healthcare.)
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To: Mr Rogers

Even in the Old Testament war was a last resort. In the new testament it was almost unheard of, and if it did happen it was because there was no other way to resolve the issue at hand. Jesus was called the Prince of Peace, not the Prince
of War.

The only people that benefit from war is the Military/Industrial Complex war profiteers.

“WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small “inside” group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes”. ~ Major General Smedley Butler, US Marines


19 posted on 09/07/2013 3:47:11 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: Mr Rogers
Hate to be the one who breaks it to you, but your Pope is very wrong. War often solves severe problems, and God has used it for His purposes many times. The Pope is apparently neither a student of history nor scripture...

You're talking about the Church that developed the "Just War Theory" over the course of millenia, beginning with St. Augustine, 1700 years ago.

Regardless, there is a painfully obvious sense in which war, regardless of its justifiability, always represents a loss for humanity. Does this really require explanation?

20 posted on 09/07/2013 3:48:00 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I understand why he made the statement he did, but I agree there might be a time or two that War was a win for humanity.


21 posted on 09/07/2013 3:49:27 PM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: RoosterRedux
the Pope is pimping the Vatican blog.

He'd better NOT!

22 posted on 09/07/2013 3:49:53 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: NYer

No. In fact, I cited the New Testament.

The New Testament does not require soldiers to quit their work, nor does it suggest governments cannot arm men to do violence against bad people. In fact, you cannot have a country without the willingness to defend that country, which in turn requires an acceptance of war.

I’ve been in war, as was my Dad (who was killed in his third), and as were my son, oldest daughter, son-in-law and the husbands of both of my nieces. War is not pretty. But war is vastly better than living under Islam, as expressed by the muslims in Afghanistan, or Egypt, or other hard-core muslim countries. If I ever had any doubt, my tour in Afghanistan would have cured them. Perhaps the Pope would like to go preach in the towns of Afghanistan.

And perhaps the Pope ought to look at the Swiss Guard...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard#Pontifical_Swiss_Guard


23 posted on 09/07/2013 3:51:29 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: NKP_Vet

“The only people that benefit from war is the Military/Industrial Complex war profiteers.”

Nope. I benefit, every day, as do you.


24 posted on 09/07/2013 3:53:09 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Mr Rogers
Nope. I benefit, every day, as do you.

What recent wars do you think we still benefit from?

25 posted on 09/07/2013 3:53:49 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Every actor who played a main role as a German officer/NCO on that show was Jewish, did you know that? Luftwaffe Colonel Klink, Major (actually Sturmbannführer und Kriminalrat) Hochstetter, Wehrmacht General der Infantrie Burkhalter and Sergeant of the Guard Schultz were all portrayed by Jewish men. Weird, huh?


26 posted on 09/07/2013 3:56:55 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I aim to raise a million plus for Gov. Palin. What'll you do?.)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

“Regardless, there is a painfully obvious sense in which war, regardless of its justifiability, always represents a loss for humanity. Does this really require explanation?”

Only in the sense that cutting out a cancer results in a loss to the body.

He will send a signal to distant nations far away
and whistle to those at the ends of the earth.
They will come racing toward Jerusalem.

They will not get tired or stumble.
They will not stop for rest or sleep.
Not a belt will be loose,
not a sandal strap broken.

Their arrows will be sharp
and their bows ready for battle.
Sparks will fly from their horses’ hooves,
and the wheels of their chariots will spin like a whirlwind.

They will roar like lions,
like the strongest of lions.
Growling, they will pounce on their victims and carry them off,
and no one will be there to rescue them.

They will roar over their victims on that day of destruction
like the roaring of the sea.
If someone looks across the land,
only darkness and distress will be seen;
even the light will be darkened by clouds.


27 posted on 09/07/2013 3:57:55 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: humblegunner

LOL!


28 posted on 09/07/2013 3:58:06 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I aim to raise a million plus for Gov. Palin. What'll you do?.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Robert Clary was also a Holocaust survivor who was liberated from Buchenwald.


29 posted on 09/07/2013 3:59:36 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Hard to believe that Leon Askin (General Burkhalter) made it to 98.


30 posted on 09/07/2013 4:00:21 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, WW2. And don’t forget the Cold War, which took a lot of effort and sometimes went hot.

Iraq was hugely worth it. We killed terrorists by the tens of thousands there so we could be safe here - and it worked.


31 posted on 09/07/2013 4:07:40 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Mr Rogers

The majority of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis, not Iraqis. They got their funding from Saudi Arabia, not Iraq.


32 posted on 09/07/2013 4:17:24 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

I know. That has nothing to do with the effectiveness of our war in Iraq, where we killed a lot of Saudi extremists. We also had been in a state of unresolved war with Iraq for years. I spent much of the 90s flying over Iraq, and was shot at many times.

Killing extremists in the ME beats waiting for the cops to try to deal with them one by one in the USA.


33 posted on 09/07/2013 4:22:07 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Mr Rogers

The jury is still out as to whether or not life for people in Iraq will be any better than before.....I doubt the Christians there are much better off.

I still say Iran was the big winner in the end.


34 posted on 09/07/2013 4:23:59 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

The actors who played the four major German roles—Werner Klemperer (Klink),[16] John Banner (Schultz), Leon Askin (Burkhalter), and Howard Caine (Hochstetter)—were Jewish. Furthermore, Klemperer, Banner, Askin, and Robert Clary (LeBeau) were Jews who had fled the Nazis during World War II. Clary says in the recorded commentary on the DVD version of episode “Art for Hogan’s Sake” that he spent three years in a concentration camp, that his parents and other family members were killed there, and that he has an identity tattoo from the camp on his arm (”A-5714”). Likewise John Banner had been held in a (pre-war) concentration camp and his family was killed during the war. Leon Askin was also in a pre-war French internment camp and his parents were killed at Treblinka. Howard Caine (Hochstetter), who was also Jewish (his birth name was Cohen), was American, and Jewish actors Harold Gould and Harold J. Stone played German generals.

As a teenager, Werner Klemperer (Klink) (son of the conductor Otto Klemperer) fled Hitler’s Germany with his family in 1933. During the show’s production, he insisted that Hogan always win over his Nazi captors or else he would not take the part of Klink. He defended his playing a Luftwaffe Officer by claiming, “I am an actor. If I can play Richard III, I can play a Nazi.” Banner attempted to sum up the paradox of his role by saying, “Who can play Nazis better than us Jews?” Ironically, although Klemperer, Banner, Caine, Gould, and Askin play stereotypical World War II Germans, all had actually served in the U.S. Armed Forces during World War II — Banner[17] and Askin in the U.S. Army Air Corps, Caine in the U.S. Navy, Gould with the U.S. Army, and Klemperer in a U.S. Army Entertainment Unit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogan’s_Heroes


35 posted on 09/07/2013 4:26:41 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I aim to raise a million plus for Gov. Palin. What'll you do?.)
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To: NYer

St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle.

36 posted on 09/07/2013 5:00:26 PM PDT by bunkerhill7 (("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.))
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To: Mr Rogers
The New Testament does not require soldiers to quit their work, nor does it suggest governments cannot arm men to do violence against bad people. In fact, you cannot have a country without the willingness to defend that country, which in turn requires an acceptance of war.

I am not questioning self defense. I asked you to show me where our Lord preaches this. Can you cite a tract from Matthew, Mark, Luke or John? In response to the question about the first of the commandments, Jesus says: "The first is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." I am no peacenik but I can't find anything in the gospels where our Lord justifies killing others.

But war is vastly better than living under Islam, as expressed by the muslims in Afghanistan, or Egypt, or other hard-core muslim countries.

Christians and Muslims have peacefully co-existed in countries like Lebanon and Egypt, for centuries. The problems are created by outsiders. That seems to be the case since the US intervened to remove benevolent dictators. In so doing, a more rabid element, like the Muslim Brotherhood,, moved in to take power. IMO, Obama is a shill in Syria, performing the same task.

Perhaps the Pope would like to go preach in the towns of Afghanistan.

Last September, Pope Benedict visited Lebanon. Even the Muslims came out to greet him.


37 posted on 09/07/2013 5:05:50 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: NYer

winning a war you didn’t start, is.


38 posted on 09/07/2013 5:20:39 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: NYer

I did not read the complete article, but any Pope commenting on War always makes me think of
Pope Pius XII, born Eugenio Maria Giuseppe Giovanni Pacelli

who made so little effort to stop the rise of Fascism in Italy and Nazism in Germany. Taking a Neutral position on the war, in effect say both sides were in the wrong.


39 posted on 09/07/2013 5:23:22 PM PDT by Bidimus1
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To: NYer

“I am no peacenik but I can’t find anything in the gospels where our Lord justifies killing others.”

So now you’ve thrown out both the Old Testament, and the non-Gospel New Testament. And I thought Catholics accused Protestants of having too small a Bible!

Governments act to defend their people. That is why we have cops - to defend those citizens who cannot defend themselves. That is why we have the military - to defend us from forces no individual can protect themselves from.

And contrary to what your Pope says, wars often do bring peace. Peace thru strength, backed by the will to use force if need be. Europe has known peace since WW2 as a result of war. South Korea has had peace & freedom because of war. We have greatly minimized terrorist attacks in the US by killing large numbers overseas.

“I asked you to show me where our Lord preaches this.”

And I cited God’s Word. It is a pity you think God’s word is limited to the red print in some New Testaments...and give more weight to Pope Francis than the Apostle Paul.


40 posted on 09/07/2013 5:26:31 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: humblegunner

Can you believe the mods pulled my comment?


41 posted on 09/07/2013 5:41:03 PM PDT by RoosterRedux
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To: Bidimus1
Your comment shows you have very little knowledge of what actually happened during World War II.You need to read up before you embarrass yourself to those who know the truth and the facts.

You may be content with your misunderstandings but it is wrong for you to present error as fact to others who might believe your mistatements and that is what you are doing. Look up a playwright with the first name of Rolf who wrote a play called “The Deputy”,many years after the war ended. That is when the lies began and truth was untethered from reality.

42 posted on 09/07/2013 5:52:49 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: NYer; Mr Rogers

“So you are saying the New Testament is NOT the Word of God?”


Why do Catholics on FR always resort to these absurd little comments instead of actually responding to what is said to them? Where did he say that the New Testament isn’t the word of God? And didn’t Roger provide you with the verses you wanted? Why didn’t you comment on that? And why didn’t you respond when he asked you why you wanted to limit the word of God to the New Testament?

Please, be rational.


43 posted on 09/07/2013 6:35:11 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: NKP_Vet

“Even in the Old Testament war was a last resort.”


For some reason I can’t think of any example in the Old Testament where war was the “last resort.” I seem to remember, perhaps, the Jews not fulfilling the command to kill certain peoples like they were supposed to, and being punished for it later.

“The only people that benefit from war is the Military/Industrial Complex war profiteers.”


Sounds like something out of DUh. So what’s your nick over there?


44 posted on 09/07/2013 6:41:00 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; NYer

>> “Why do Catholics on FR always resort to these absurd little comments instead of actually responding to what is said to them?” <<

The answer to that question should be self-evident.


45 posted on 09/07/2013 6:41:48 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: NYer; Heart-Rest; HoosierDammit; red irish; fastrock; NorthernCrunchyCon; UMCRevMom@aol.com; ...

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called children of God.

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called children of God.

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called children of God.


46 posted on 09/07/2013 6:43:34 PM PDT by narses
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

47 posted on 09/07/2013 6:44:14 PM PDT by narses
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To: editor-surveyor

48 posted on 09/07/2013 6:44:29 PM PDT by narses
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To: fwdude; NYer

>> “ The great final war will be waged by none other than God himself along with his Saints. Will Francis condemn God then?” <<

.
Bet on it! He will be gnashing his teeth, along with most of his followers.


49 posted on 09/07/2013 6:44:30 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Bidimus1

50 posted on 09/07/2013 6:44:55 PM PDT by narses
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