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Changing Faiths at the Crystal Cathedral
The Los Angeles Times ^ | 9/13/13 | Rick Rojas

Posted on 09/13/2013 8:33:37 AM PDT by marshmallow

Once the symbol of a congregation founded by Robert Schuller, the cathedral is now part of a church with rites and traditions that span centuries.

Towering like the Emerald City, the cathedral formerly known as Crystal sits at what might be Orange County's nucleus, a trinity of confluencing freeways, the Angels and Ducks stadium and a glimpse of a sacred place of a different kind — Disneyland

From that gleaming sanctuary, evangelist Robert Schuller delivered sermons that were beamed to television sets around the world. His ministry became synonymous with the megachurch, designed so the light and the breeze could stream through, a grand replica of his humble beginnings preaching on the roof of an Orange drive-in's snack shop.

The Crystal Cathedral was to Schuller what Graceland was to Elvis. Now it has been bought by the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange, which has long coveted having a cathedral that sat at the center of its vast footprint of 1.2 million Catholics.

The name has already been changed to the Christ Cathedral. But the work of liturgical consultants, priests and architects to transform a temple so closely identified as a symbol of Schuller's sunny, uniquely Southern Californian theology into one that conforms to the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church has just begun.

"The exterior will always be the Crystal Cathedral, at least for a while," said Duncan Stroik, a professor of architecture at Notre Dame and editor of the publication Sacred Architecture Journal. "Catholic on the inside, but kind of Protestant on the outside."

Those who have taken on the project recognize that their assignment is a intimidating one, but they also have faith:

They can turn the Crystal Cathedral into the Christ Cathedral.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Worship
KEYWORDS: crystalcathedral; megachurch; orangecounty; robertschuller; ybpdln
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1 posted on 09/13/2013 8:33:37 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

It kind of disturbs me that they would want a building this ostentatious while at the same time preaching humility to the flock.


2 posted on 09/13/2013 8:35:39 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: All
The Crystal Cathedral was to Schuller what Graceland was to Elvis. Now it has been bought by the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange, which has long coveted having a cathedral that sat at the center of its vast footprint of 1.2 million Catholics. The name has already been changed to the Christ Cathedral. But the work of liturgical consultants, priests and architects to transform a temple so closely identified as a symbol of Schuller's sunny, uniquely Southern Californian theology into one that conforms to the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church has just begun.

It'll always look like Elvis' Graceland, IMO. No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney.

3 posted on 09/13/2013 8:37:24 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: marshmallow

Pictures from the article:

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5231e097/turbine/la-me-crystal-cathedral-pictures-011/980

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5231e0a1/turbine/la-me-crystal-cathedral-pictures-008/600

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5231e0b9/turbine/la-me-crystal-cathedral-pictures-001/600

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5231e08c/turbine/la-me-crystal-cathedral-pictures-014/600


4 posted on 09/13/2013 8:40:22 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: marshmallow

It might be fun to see Catholic descriptions of the Crystal Cathedral before the Catholic denomination bought it.

It sounds like a mega church.


5 posted on 09/13/2013 8:43:32 AM PDT by ansel12 ( Libertarians, the left's social agenda with conservatism's economics, which is impossible of course)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
They were in need of a cathedral for the diocese. I don't know how the cost of building one compares to the cost of acquiring this one.

I don't like it personally. It looks like it was transported from Krypton. Which, I suppose, is better than the Prison Nouveau cathedral down Interstate 5

6 posted on 09/13/2013 8:44:39 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Don't blame me for McCain.)
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To: RhoTheta; Orgiveme

Ping.


7 posted on 09/13/2013 8:45:15 AM PDT by Egon (Apparently, Jimmy Carter DOES need a third term.)
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To: marshmallow

Are they still going to have the camels and donkeys in there at Christmas???


8 posted on 09/13/2013 8:45:37 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: marshmallow

It is an incredible building.

(I have always wondered how they keep those windows clean, I can’t even figure out to clean my sliders)


9 posted on 09/13/2013 8:47:54 AM PDT by svcw (We do not fear death, as much as we fear no one will remember us.)
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To: Alex Murphy

The Catholics should have purchased some land and built their own facility, to their own tastes.


10 posted on 09/13/2013 8:49:18 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Buckeye McFrog

I read once that churches centuries ago were built like this (or other magnificent building) as a representation of heaven.
Pictures and tapestries were used to teach Bible as most people were unable to read.
Do not know if that’s correct, it does make sense though


11 posted on 09/13/2013 8:50:39 AM PDT by svcw (We do not fear death, as much as we fear no one will remember us.)
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To: marshmallow

Maybe it made some kind of economic sense. Cheaper than building a new cathedral from scratch? But it’s an ugly looking building. It joins the ranks of some other really ugly-looking modernist cathedrals in California.

A cathedral should be beautiful, and it should focus the congregation’s attention on the altar and the Mass. It still looks like what it was, a Mega Church built and run by boastful pastors who went a little too far and couldn’t pull it off.


12 posted on 09/13/2013 8:50:42 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Jeff Chandler

“They were in need of a cathedral for the diocese. “

Not if they followed the Bible... no cathedrals appear. Not in Apostolic teaching. Not in history until hundreds of years later.


13 posted on 09/13/2013 8:51:27 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws - Tacituss)
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To: Salvation

Thanks, very interesting perspectives


14 posted on 09/13/2013 8:51:38 AM PDT by svcw (We do not fear death, as much as we fear no one will remember us.)
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To: marshmallow

what happened to Robert Schuller ?


15 posted on 09/13/2013 8:52:14 AM PDT by Mr. K (Lies, Damned Lies, Statistics, and then Democrat Talking Points.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Creative architecture and the Catholic Liturgy do not go well together, I’ve found.

First noticed that in modern churches built with an “in the round” design. The spoke-and-wheel aisle layout makes getting down for Communion quite an adventure. Not to mention trying to navigate those aisles with a casket on a gurney.


16 posted on 09/13/2013 8:52:31 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: marshmallow

I don’t think this is “changing faiths”. Everybody believes in Christ’s message who worshipped/worships at the Crystal/Christ Cathedral. Since Pope John XXIII, Catholics have been taught that following another faith does not preclude your entrance to Heaven. We Catholics just believe that we have better guideposts, that’s all.

This is a beautiful building, and I can see how it can be adapted into a Catholic cathedral. I just pray they have the donations to cover the cost of window washers. (And I hope that they introduce some judiciously positioned stained glass too.)


17 posted on 09/13/2013 8:53:29 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: svcw

The modern day Vatican is truly a beautiful example of architecture, filled with many of the world’s great art treasures.

Unfortunately financed through the heresy of selling indulgences. As a Catholic I am sort of torn between the beauty and mortified by the use of resources that could have been used to do so much more for His work.


18 posted on 09/13/2013 8:55:46 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Planned self-destruction.....erasing of everything “medieval” so they can reframe “Truth”-—twist it to mean whatever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Qhtj_jmNvDs#t=411


19 posted on 09/13/2013 8:59:57 AM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
"It kind of disturbs me that they would want a building this ostentatious while at the same time preaching humility to the flock."

Schuller was never about the Gospel. He was a protege of Norman Vincent Peale and the Power of Positive Thinking, a cult almost as kooky as Rome. So, it just went from one circus to another.

20 posted on 09/13/2013 9:04:09 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: Cicero
It joins the ranks of some other really ugly-looking modernist cathedrals in California.

The ugliest is the Our Lady of the Angels cathedral in Los Angeles.

However, last year, the Our Savior Church, a beautiful Catholic house of worship built in the Italian Romanesque style, opened a block north of USC.


21 posted on 09/13/2013 9:04:15 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Dutchboy88
Schuller was never about the Gospel. He was a protege of Norman Vincent Peale and the Power of Positive Thinking, a cult almost as kooky as Rome. So, it just went from one circus to another.

Thank you!

22 posted on 09/13/2013 9:06:29 AM PDT by Badabing Badablonde (New to the internet? CLICK HERE)
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To: Fiji Hill

My parents’ church is currently undergoing renovations. The Masses have been moved to a very plain cinder block auditorium in the interim. Many have commented that this seems to have brought the Mass closer to the people. Whether it’s fewer distractions or a more intimate setting, hard to say.


23 posted on 09/13/2013 9:06:50 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Mr. K
What happened to Robert Schuller ?

He retired and turned his church over to his children--"the Kids" as his unhappy parishioners called them--and they ran it into the ground. Schuller, now in his nineties, has recently been diagnosed with cancer.

24 posted on 09/13/2013 9:08:23 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Buckeye McFrog
First noticed that in modern churches built with an “in the round” design. The spoke-and-wheel aisle layout makes getting down for Communion quite an adventure. Not to mention trying to navigate those aisles with a casket on a gurney.

A) What are you doing with a casket in your pew?
2) Isn't it a little late for the occupant to receive Communion?

25 posted on 09/13/2013 9:14:03 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: Fiji Hill

Yes, that is a nice church. I think the new San Francisco cathedral offers some competition to the one in LA.


26 posted on 09/13/2013 9:15:58 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

I do not know what “selling indulgences” means.

The Vatican is breath taking, in its beauty and history.
I had the opportunity to see it two years ago, unfortunately I went on a tour.....next time I will go by myself and take my time (if I get the chance that is).


27 posted on 09/13/2013 9:16:10 AM PDT by svcw (We do not fear death, as much as we fear no one will remember us.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Not if they followed the Bible... no cathedrals appear. Not in Apostolic teaching. Not in history until hundreds of years later.

No dictionaries either, I see.

28 posted on 09/13/2013 9:17:21 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Don't blame me for McCain.)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

What?? Bishop Vann is preaching humility now? Tell me about it.


29 posted on 09/13/2013 9:19:22 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (My kin are given to such phrases as, 'Let's face it.' - Flannery O'Connor)
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To: Alex Murphy; Buckeye McFrog
Alex: read for details. Buckeye was not speaking of a casket in the "pew," he was speaking of a casket in the "aisle." The casket --- with the mortal remains of the deceased parishioner --- would be there for the Funeral Mass and the final blessings.

I don't have a clear idea of what the layout of a "church in the round" is like, but maybe there's no real main aisle, just a bunch of spokes, and thus an awkwardness of how you move from "back to front" when half of the seating is way over on the other side of the altar.

I'd imagine there's a problem with the Veneration of the Cross on Good Friday, too. Come to think of it, it would make any kind of procession a little unfocused.

I'm all for ad orientem.

30 posted on 09/13/2013 9:32:20 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (My kin are given to such phrases as, 'Let's face it.' - Flannery O'Connor)
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To: Cicero

There were some great articles about this a couple years ago. The Catholic Church saved a bundle by buying this property and the land rather than building a new facility.

What is interesting about this building is how Schuler insisted on an all glass building despite the earthquake building codes. I don’t think there could be another approved there. I remember when he built it growing up.


31 posted on 09/13/2013 9:45:41 AM PDT by Average Al
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To: Alex Murphy
Graceland, hah! I tend to agree with you on that. It's --- to my mind --- gaudy without being sacred.

But the line between glory and gaudy may be a perpetual dispute. I really LIKE the Sagrada Familia Basilica in Barcelona:

I'm touched by the fact that even though the Catalan revolutionaries attacked and damaged it in 1936, they couldn't bring themselves to utterly trash and obliterate it. (They were bloody-handed anarchists, but, thank God, not a bunch of puritan wahhabis.)

32 posted on 09/13/2013 9:47:08 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (My kin are given to such phrases as, 'Let's face it.' - Flannery O'Connor)
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To: Dutchboy88

almost verbatim from Douthats book : Bad Religion


33 posted on 09/13/2013 10:07:51 AM PDT by RBStealth
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Not if they followed the Bible... no cathedrals appear. Not in Apostolic teaching.

No church buildings of any kind appear in the Bible. When are you getting rid of yours?

34 posted on 09/13/2013 10:31:37 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: marshmallow; DocRock; del4hope; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; jude24; Ottofire; fishtank; ..
Tis what happens when a church is run on the charisma of one man. He steps down and it fritters away.

______________________________________________

The YBPDLNPL is generally published infrequently, but based on the exploits of the megachurch pastors posts can spike for a period of time. If you would like on or off of this list please FReepmail me.


35 posted on 09/13/2013 10:35:51 AM PDT by Gamecock (Many Atheists take the stand: "There is no God AND I hate Him.")
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To: RBStealth
"almost verbatim from Douthats book : Bad Religion"

Never heard of it, but I'll have to check it out now. Thanks.

36 posted on 09/13/2013 10:36:58 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
"Not if they followed the Bible... no cathedrals appear. Not in Apostolic teaching. Not in history until hundreds of years later."

From what I see, you did not get a legitimate response to your very important observation. The cathedral problem is indicative of how far this organization wandered away from Apostolic teaching.

37 posted on 09/13/2013 10:44:28 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: Mr. K
what happened to Robert Schuller ?

According to the archives of the YBPDLN, it seems that he is ill: Daughter: Televangelist Schuller has cancer

He is having financial issues: Crystal Cathedral's Robert A. Schuller 'Short Sells' Calif. Home to Avoid Foreclosure.

And apparently his wife is hungry: Crystal Cathedral's Rev. Robert Schuller Requests Meals for Wife, Congregation Outraged

38 posted on 09/13/2013 10:45:53 AM PDT by Gamecock (Many Atheists take the stand: "There is no God AND I hate Him.")
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To: Buckeye McFrog
***It kind of disturbs me that they would want a building this ostentatious****

It was designed to take some architectural award the year it was built. It lost to the small THORNCROWN CHAPEL in Eureka Springs, AR.

39 posted on 09/13/2013 10:49:47 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Mr. K
Oh, and his granddaughter thinks Christian women should dress like pole dancers: Robert Schuller’s Granddaughter Publishes Kinky Book


40 posted on 09/13/2013 10:52:10 AM PDT by Gamecock (Many Atheists take the stand: "There is no God AND I hate Him.")
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To: svcw

I thought so too, but they wouldn’t post to the thread as img src


41 posted on 09/13/2013 10:56:42 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: savagesusie

Good video.


42 posted on 09/13/2013 11:05:14 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Indulgences are no longer sold. That is an old thing, and has been corrected.


43 posted on 09/13/2013 11:07:57 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: marshmallow

I don’t care about the building as long as they teach Salvation comes from Jesus Christ alone. I’ve seen no comments about the pope’s statement here in the last few days. If true, we are in the last days. I figured his alleged statement would be the buzz for days. Was he misquoted? If not, the Church is in deep trouble. Will the laity defend this? I’m just crushed.


44 posted on 09/13/2013 11:43:01 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: svcw

Medieval churches were indeed constructed so that stained glass windows were as large & elaborate as possible with their depictions of the supernatural, the saints, and heavenly vistas.

The innovation lay in the external buttressing of the walls to allow for these huge windows.


45 posted on 09/13/2013 12:07:12 PM PDT by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Not if they followed the Bible... no cathedrals appear. Not in Apostolic teaching. Not in history until hundreds of years later.

There's no Bible in the Bible, either.

When Paul and Barnabas became involved in a dispute about circumsion with some folk from Judea, they couldn't say ..."what does it say in the Bible?" There was no New Testament. It didn't exist.

Instead, Paul and Barnabas returned to Jerusalem and consulted with the "apostles and ancients."

Imagine that.....a church with no New Testament! I wonder what they used for preaching?

So just remember.....when your preacher stands up and asks you to turn to a particular passage in Romans, just rmember that's not Biblical because that's not how Paul and Barnabas preached.

46 posted on 09/13/2013 12:32:26 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: Dutchboy88
The cathedral problem is indicative of how far this organization wandered away from Apostolic teaching.

Imagine trying to have a sermon on the mount...

Draft EIS, permits, parking, porta potties, etc.

You want to feed the crowd what? Loaves and fishes? Are these being handled by state licensed caterers? The Health Department needs to inspect the facilities, WHAT!!!??? Baskets! Are you nuts?

Just stay calm, buddy, you're who? ('Louie, better call for backup, we've got a live one here.')

Unfortunately, in our wonderfully (/sarc) civilized world, things have been a tad overcomplicated, by popular demand.

It helps to have a building.

47 posted on 09/13/2013 12:44:06 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Campion

“No church buildings of any kind appear in the Bible. When are you getting rid of yours?”

Don’t have one


48 posted on 09/13/2013 1:43:43 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws - Tacituss)
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To: marshmallow

“There’s no Bible in the Bible, either.”

You miss that “Scriptures” are in the Scriptures.

“When Paul and Barnabas became involved in a dispute about circumsion with some folk from Judea, they couldn’t say ...”what does it say in the Bible?” There was no New Testament. It didn’t exist.”

And you have that excuse today???

“Instead, Paul and Barnabas returned to Jerusalem and consulted with the “apostles and ancients.”

Ah, yes. They were alive.

“Imagine that.....a church with no New Testament! I wonder what they used for preaching?”

Hebrew Scriptures that were able to make wise to salvation.

“So just remember.....when your preacher stands up and asks you to turn to a particular passage in Romans, just rmember that’s not Biblical because that’s not how Paul and Barnabas preached.”

Actually, the Scriptures WERE read aloud in gatherings in cities.

You have work to do.


49 posted on 09/13/2013 1:46:04 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws - Tacituss)
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To: Smokin' Joe
"Just stay calm, buddy, you're who? ('Louie, better call for backup, we've got a live one here.')

Unfortunately, in our wonderfully (/sarc) civilized world, things have been a tad overcomplicated, by popular demand.

It helps to have a building."

Okay, that is funny. But, whether a building is necessary is still not cleared up. The gatherings of believers in the first century were in homes (Prisc & Aquila Rom. 16:5), in caves, in graveyards, in market places (Acts 17:22), by river banks (Acts 16:13). When did we get the order to sanitize the assembling together?

50 posted on 09/13/2013 2:33:36 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
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