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Is Atheism a Belief or a Lack of Belief?
Catholic Answers ^ | September 4, 2013 | Trent Horn

Posted on 09/15/2013 12:19:55 PM PDT by NYer

When asked to prove atheism is true, many atheists say that they don’t have to prove anything. They say atheism is not “belief there is no God” but merely “no belief in a God.” Atheism is defined in this context as a “lack of belief” in God, and if Catholics can’t prove God exists, then a person is justified in being an atheist. But the problem with defining atheism as simply “the lack of belief in God” is that there are already another group of people who fall under that definition: agnostics.

The "I Don't Know's"

Agnosticism (from the Greek word for knowledge, gnosis) is the position that a person cannot know if God exists. A strong agnostic is someone like skeptic Michael Shermer, who claims that no one is able to know if God exists. He writes, “I once saw a bumper sticker that read “Militant agnostic: I don’t know and you don’t either.” This is my position on God’s existence: I don’t know and you don’t either.”[i]

A weak agnostic merely claims that while he doesn’t know if God exists, it is possible that someone else may know. Agnosticism and weak atheism are very similar in that both groups claim to be “without belief in God.”[ii] Pope Benedict XVI spoke sympathetically of such people in a 2011 address:

In addition to the two phenomena of religion and anti-religion, a further basic orientation is found in the growing world of agnosticism: people to whom the gift of faith has not been given, but who are nevertheless on the lookout for truth, searching for God. Such people do not simply assert: ‘There is no God.’ They suffer from his absence and yet are inwardly making their way towards him, inasmuch as they seek truth and goodness. They are ‘pilgrims of truth, pilgrims of peace.’

A Difference Without a Distinction

Because agnosticism seems more open-minded than atheism, many atheists are more apt to describe themselves like agnostics, who likewise have “no belief in a God,” even though they call themselves “atheist.” They say that an atheist is just a person who lacks a belief in God but is open to being proven wrong. But saying you lack a belief in God no more answers the question, “Does God exist?” than saying you lack a belief in aliens answers the question, “Do aliens exist?”

This is just agnosticism under a different name.

For example, can we say agnosticism is true? We can’t, because agnostics make no claims about the world; they just describe how they feel about a fact in the world (the existence of God). Likewise, if atheists want us to believe that atheism is true, then they must make a claim about the world and show that what they lack a belief in—God—does not exist.

Belief on Trial

An illustration might help explain the burden of proof both sides share. In a murder trial the prosecution must show beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the murder. But if the prosecution isn’t able to make its case, then the defendant is found “not guilty.” Notice the defendant isn’t found “innocent.”

For all we know, he could have committed the crime, but we just can’t prove it. Certain kinds of evidence, like an air-tight alibi, can show the defendant is innocent. But it is the responsibility of the defense to present that evidence.

Likewise, even if the theist isn’t able to make his case that God exists that doesn’t show God does not exist and therefore that atheism is true. As atheists Austin Dacey and Lewis Vaughn write, “What if these arguments purporting to establish that God exists are failures? That is, what if they offer no justification for theistic belief? Must we then conclude that God does not exist? No. Lack of supporting reasons or evidence for a proposition does not show that the proposition is false.”[iii]

If he wants to demonstrate that atheism is true, an atheist would have to provide additional evidence that there is no God just as a defense attorney would have to provide further evidence to show his client is innocent as opposed to being just “not guilty.” He can’t simply say the arguments for the existence of God are failures and then rest his case.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Skeptics/Seekers; Theology
KEYWORDS: atheism
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1 posted on 09/15/2013 12:19:55 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 09/15/2013 12:20:15 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: NYer
Communist states imposing state atheism tells me all I need to know. All atheistic cop-out arguments fall flat against the backdrop of such a bloody history.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

— Psalm 14:1 and 53:1

3 posted on 09/15/2013 12:23:56 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: NYer
Atheism == Communism.
Communism == Liberalism.
Liberalism == DemonRATS.

The DemonRATS booed God. They are servants of Satan (or Allah) but I repeat myself.

4 posted on 09/15/2013 12:24:07 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: NYer
It is, by definition, a religious belief despite their semantics. It should not be given preference over other religious beliefs.
5 posted on 09/15/2013 12:34:43 PM PDT by Washi (She was Hannah Montana when Bush was president. Thanks a lot Barack Obama! :))
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To: NYer

If you believe in nothing you’ll fall for anything.


6 posted on 09/15/2013 12:37:10 PM PDT by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux)
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To: NYer
This lifelong atheist has gradually made a transition from negative atheism to positive.

By the bye, before I proceed a single word further, please let me state I'm an atheist by belief or faith. My beliefs are neither more nor less provable than the Jew's, Christian's, Hindu's, or anyone else's. Ultimately, it's all a matter of belief.

I started out at the ripe old age of about three, if you can believe such a strange thing, believing there is no God. That's an essentially negative belief. Well into my forties, while hanging out with a decidedly religious friend, I began to shift toward actively or positively disbelieving in all things "spiritual;" concurrently, I gradually turned much less argumentive and much more tolerant.

All that said™, if you think I'm embarrassed by the behavior of many of my fellow atheists in America today, you're entirely correct. All too many are leftist extremists of the most morally and intellectually immature kind. I'm much more the Ayn Rand kind of atheist.

7 posted on 09/15/2013 12:37:35 PM PDT by Standing Wolf (No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.)
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To: NYer
While I have held the position of "weak" atheism for quite a while, of late I find myself leaning towards ignosticism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

Ignosticism is the view that a coherent definition of a given religious term or theological concept must be presented before the question of the existence or nature of said term can be meaningfully discussed. Furthermore, if that definition is unfalsifiable, the ignostic takes the theological noncognitivist position that the question of the existence or nature referred to by the term, for the given definition, is meaningless.

Some philosophers have seen ignosticism as a variation of agnosticism or atheism, while others have considered it to be distinct.

8 posted on 09/15/2013 12:40:36 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: NYer

Atheism is now a religion in my opinion.


9 posted on 09/15/2013 12:41:01 PM PDT by blastbaby
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To: re_nortex
Atheism == Communism. <

I understand what you're getting at, and connection between state imposed atheism and totalitarian leftism is well known.

But don't forget -- Ayn Rand was an atheist, and she was certainly no communist.

10 posted on 09/15/2013 12:44:30 PM PDT by Maceman (Just say "NO" to tyranny.)
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To: Maceman
But don't forget -- Ayn Rand was an atheist, and she was certainly no communist.

Indeed, she was the opposite of a communist, if anything.

11 posted on 09/15/2013 12:47:16 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Maceman
Ayn Rand was an atheist...

I'm one of a small handful of FReepers not much awed by Ayn Rand. Not only was she an atheist but she was an abortionist and committed adultery. Her sound ideas about economics can't balance out those issues that, IMHO, are core to Conservatism.

That's just my viewpoint and I realize a number of people hold her in very high regard.

12 posted on 09/15/2013 12:49:33 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: NYer

Neither.

It is a conscious rejection of God and an intellectual game of solitaire that refuses to seek God.

Pointless discussions.

Man knows there is a greater being but, if he does not feel compelled to seek him out then he can contrive a myriad of reasons why it would be pointless.

For instance, if the aethiest were to seek God and given the number of religions and their faiths he would have to start with “Which God?”.

Just be a witness and maybe, quietly, they will one day seek God.


13 posted on 09/15/2013 12:52:36 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: NYer

I’d neither describe it as a belief or a lack of belief.

It is simply a worldview.


14 posted on 09/15/2013 12:58:33 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: NYer

Thank goodness I’m a “heathen”. A nun in my Catholic high school confirmed that. I’ve been fine with it ever since.


15 posted on 09/15/2013 1:02:05 PM PDT by USMCPOP (Father of LCpl. Karl Linn, KIA 1/26/2005 Al Haqlaniyah, Iraq)
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To: Vendome
It is a conscious rejection of God and an intellectual game of solitaire that refuses to seek God.

Man knows there is a greater being

Hm...this sounds like of a variation of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Are you asserting that all atheists actually do believe in God, and just pretend they don't?

16 posted on 09/15/2013 1:07:24 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: NYer

Atheists believe in God. They just see God as the enemy to be defeated.


17 posted on 09/15/2013 1:13:57 PM PDT by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Obama: the bearded lady of the Muslim Brotherhood))
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To: NYer

It may not be belief but it has large conviction.


18 posted on 09/15/2013 1:14:06 PM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
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To: USMCPOP
Thank goodness I’m a “heathen”

At various times, I've been called a heathen, an infidel, a heretic, and a pagan. While the first three fit (by the standards of those accusing me of such), the last one certainly doesn't. I might enjoy Greek & Roman mythology, but I don't believe in it!

19 posted on 09/15/2013 1:14:14 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: re_nortex
I'm one of a small handful of FReepers not much awed by Ayn Rand.

My point was only that atheism does not necessarily equal communism, as the poster asserted.

It is true that Ayn Rand was a deeply flawed individual. But that does not change the fact that she was a passionate and articulate defender of individual liberty, limited government and free markets, and that I (like many, many others) will always owe her an intellectual debt of gratitude for awakening me to the true nature of the political left.

I first discovered Ayn Rand as a college freshman in 1968, the year left-wing radicalism went mainstream on college campuses.

I remain forever grateful to her for initially raising my consciousness. When I first got to college, I was petitioning door to door for Eugene McCarthy like all my other young liberal skull full of mush peers.

Having only a year earlier declared myself a committed atheist, Rand’s writings appealed greatly to me on an intellectual level. I read every word she ever wrote in the next few years, and read Atlas Shrugged cover-to-cover at least twice, although “inhaled” would probably be a more accurate term than “read.”

The next year, I became editor-in-chief of my college newspaper, and remained so for the next three years. I am proud to say that as a result, during my tenure my college had the only non-Marxist student newspaper in the country — at least that was my impression from attending the annual United States Student Press Association (USSPA) conference in Washington DC every year.

Under my editorship, we constantly espoused liberty and free-market economics, and derived great pleasure from consistently inventing new ways to give the leftwing radicals and SDS supporters on the faculty and in the student government a deliciously frustrating time — publicly opposing them and organizing against them at every possible turn.

After I left college, I never lost my passion for liberty and free markets, although I moved way beyond Ayn Rand as I discovered Henry Hazlitt, Adam Smith, FA Hayek, Ludwig von Mises, and so many other great conservative writers and thinkers such as Leonard Read at the Foundation for Economic Education and other conservative think-tanks.

In my 30s and early 40s, after reading books for laymen about modern physics (such as The Universe & Doctor Einstein), and undergoing many personal transformations, I renounced my atheism and remain to this day a firm believer in God’s existence.

I don’t understand why so many religious conservatives are so hostile to Ayn Rand. And I consider the fact that she developed a non-theistic justification for limited government and free markets to be a real contribution — especially in this day-and-age when so many potential converts to liberty are instantly turned off by any mention of God.

Everyone has their own spiritual path. It took me 20 years to come to God as an adult. I would rather live any day in a country comprised of traditional religion-based conservatives and Ayn Rand Objectivists than one in which the other side is composed of leftwing totalitarians, which is the case today.

As far as I’m concerned, I may have parted ways with her intellectually in many respects, but GOD BLESS AYN RAND! I wish more young people would be exposed to her these days.

20 posted on 09/15/2013 1:17:29 PM PDT by Maceman (Just say "NO" to tyranny.)
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To: Hardraade
Atheists believe in God.

That's not true by definition.

They just see God as the enemy to be defeated.

That would be either misotheism or maltheism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misotheism
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Maltheism

21 posted on 09/15/2013 1:18:38 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Kip Russell

Ah, but atheism is only definable if you actually believe what the atheists say. Most of the time, you can’t - it’s like trying to find firm ground in marxism.

Suckers game.


22 posted on 09/15/2013 1:24:59 PM PDT by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Obama: the bearded lady of the Muslim Brotherhood))
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To: NYer

Atheists will demand to be married in a church and can’t be told no.


23 posted on 09/15/2013 1:28:27 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: NYer

It is a belief that they know where we came from and what is out there and the belief there is nothing like a god or higher being or spiritual universe. They cannot provide facts to back up their claims, therefore, it is simply their beliefs, a religion in itself.


24 posted on 09/15/2013 1:32:49 PM PDT by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off. -786 +969)
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To: NYer

There is belief; and unbelief. pick one. choose wisely.


25 posted on 09/15/2013 1:37:06 PM PDT by joelt
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To: NYer
A weak agnostic merely claims that while he doesn’t know if God exists, it is possible that someone else may know.

Some may know because they have direct observation or experience of God intervening in their life.

26 posted on 09/15/2013 1:37:46 PM PDT by mjp ((pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, natural rights, limited government, capitalism}))
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To: Hardraade
Ah, but atheism is only definable if you actually believe what the atheists say.

Not so. Atheism is definable independent of what any particular atheist says. In short, it's simply the denial of the existence of a deity or deities, or a lack of belief in a deity or deities.

If one fulfills either of these, one is an atheist.

27 posted on 09/15/2013 1:42:09 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Kip Russell

Yep.

Once they make the argument “Which God” they have revealed their bluff.

I see no point in arguing with them or discussing God unless they have questions and at that point they are again conceding the possibility and all I do is create arguments of influence not some imperitive that a decision must be made now.

They feel manipulated and to date I count one aetheist who came to Christ of his own volition because something was missing and once he realized that he was compelled to ask “Is it God? If he is real and I can ask questions of him, will he return an answer?”

Once he asked those two questions he asked for God to come into his life if it would fill that void.


28 posted on 09/15/2013 1:45:16 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
Atheists will demand to be married in a church and can’t be told no.

Example? Is there an instance in which the government has forced a church to marry a pair of atheists?

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but I've never heard of such a case...in the United States, at any rate.

29 posted on 09/15/2013 1:45:56 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Vendome
Yep.

Once they make the argument “Which God” they have revealed their bluff.

What bluff? How is asking for a definition of terms a "bluff"?

While you've asserted that there's no such thing as an atheist, you haven't demonstrated it. Why, when someone tells you that they have no belief in a deity, would you think they couldn't possibly be telling the truth?

Example: I, personally, have no belief in any deity.

Do you think I'm lying?

30 posted on 09/15/2013 1:52:04 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Kip Russell

I am predicting for you, based on regularly reported hostilities from modern day atheists.


31 posted on 09/15/2013 1:52:52 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: mjp
Some may know because they have direct observation or experience of God intervening in their life.

Alternately, they have experienced something that they think is a supernatural experience which in fact has a naturalistic explanation.

32 posted on 09/15/2013 1:54:36 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: NYer

Why does it matter? I don’t see that it does one whit.


33 posted on 09/15/2013 1:55:51 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: Berlin_Freeper
I am predicting for you, based on regularly reported hostilities from modern day atheists.

I misunderstood; from the way you phrased it, I thought you were asserting that such a thing had already taken place.

For the record, I don't foresee atheists being able to force churches of which they are (presumably) not a member to perform weddings for them.

34 posted on 09/15/2013 1:58:07 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: RIghtwardHo
Why does it matter? I don’t see that it does one whit.

I suppose in practical terms it really doesn't. It just makes good fodder for internet discussion. Beyond that...

35 posted on 09/15/2013 2:00:28 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Kip Russell

Exactly.

But the atheists denial, very often, is plainly not credible and even loud classification of people as atheists (such as Rand) being misplaced.

The whole dance is about the atheist trying to prove that he doesn’t believe, and being unable to.


36 posted on 09/15/2013 2:02:06 PM PDT by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Obama: the bearded lady of the Muslim Brotherhood))
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To: Hardraade
But the atheists denial, very often, is plainly not credible

Why?

The whole dance is about the atheist trying to prove that he doesn’t believe, and being unable to.

Using the same argument, a believer is every bit as unable to prove that he does believe, yes?

Why would anyone need to "prove" what they do or don't believe? Why not simply take their statement at face value?

37 posted on 09/15/2013 2:07:07 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Washi
It is, by definition, a religious belief despite their semantics. It should not be given preference over other religious beliefs.

Yet not only does our government give preference to it, it uses its full powers to support it in everything it touches at the exclusion of all other beliefs.

38 posted on 09/15/2013 2:13:50 PM PDT by Hoodat (BENGHAZI - 4 KILLED, 2 MIA)
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To: Kip Russell

Outside interest. There’s ideology going on here, or dialectic, or whatever.

Rand has been dinged as an atheist because of her disdain of Heaven/afterlife. but seen another way, that is simply the ortodox judaic view. Just an example. But I don’t think anyone would try and claim that orthodox Jews are atheists because they have no place for the afterlife.

What I’m saying is that the argument, in itself, is artificial and not going anywhere.


39 posted on 09/15/2013 2:17:00 PM PDT by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Obama: the bearded lady of the Muslim Brotherhood))
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To: Hardraade
Some nonbelievers still find solace in prayer
40 posted on 09/15/2013 2:18:31 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Hardraade
Rand has been dinged as an atheist because of her disdain of Heaven/afterlife. but seen another way, that is simply the ortodox judaic view.

She was certainly anti-religion. Whether she was an atheist as such I'll have to leave to those more familiar with her work...I've only read a few of her novels.

41 posted on 09/15/2013 2:27:11 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Kip Russell

I never asserted anyone claiming to be an aethiest is lying. In fact, I take them at their word.

I only discuss God or my beliefs if they want to.

My point was about specific “tells”, as I described. I don’t push God on them, merely inform.

I also don’t proselitize to them anymore than I tell my gay friends they are in error to God. Failed strategy.

BTW, I have a friend who is gay and was raised Catholic. He has contrived a new God that says we are all equal sexually and that morals have a certain relativism.

I asked him to define his new god and he proceeded to manufacture some convoluted new god.

He eventually conceded he was full of crap but, wanted to believe God would accept him.

Of course God accepts him but, rejects his behaviour and the stories he tells himself to feed his sexual desire.

It’s his coping mechanism.

As for your disavowel of God, yeah, you are probably full of it.

If you’re not and care to get off your chest how you came to that decision, fine. But, it seems like a waste if time.

I accept you as you are and seek not change into something I prefer. That’s what wives are for.


42 posted on 09/15/2013 2:29:50 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: NYer

I thought atheism was the lack of a belief in God and agnosticism was believing in God but not in religion. Is it odd that to have faith in God, yet lack faith in religious dogma?

I went through an atheist phase as a young teen, who would tell God that I don’t believe in you. God saw it different and I feel blessed with the continual presence of God every in moment, even when I am not conscious of it. And though I wouldn’t call myself an agnostic by what I thought was the definition of the word, I do find religious dogma to often be no more then the demand to conform to some other person’s vision of God rather then God’s vision for all and each of us.

I do find atheists are often angry and bitter as well as contrary. The contrary ones won’t believe in God because they will do the opposite, thinking it makes them appear more capable and independent. The angry and bitter ones are miffed that God seems more mythical then magical. They’re angry at God because life is not perfect and all their desires are not met. For this they rage against God and against those who believe in God. Not long ago a started reading a biography of Madalyn Murray O’Hair, and as I suspected she was one of the angry, bitter atheists, who want vengeance on God for the bad things in their life. She set out to destroy God because he didn’t control her life and instead she ended up destroying herself and her loved ones. She didn’t destroy God. God was always there watching over her and telling her to turn back, but she didn’t because she couldn’t let go of her disappointment, her anger and her bitterness. She went where her anger took her rather then where God would have taken her. And where her soul is now, is between her and God.


43 posted on 09/15/2013 2:33:21 PM PDT by This I Wonder32460
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To: Kip Russell

I think it would be more correct to say she was anti some of the effects of some religion, and that she didn’t really concern herself with anything but but a very narrow strip of human existence.

The discussion is certainly interesting, but I think there’s no conclusion to be had using a plain logic framework. Sooner or later you end up with faith, not proof.


44 posted on 09/15/2013 2:34:08 PM PDT by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Obama: the bearded lady of the Muslim Brotherhood))
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To: Kip Russell

The way I phrased it is “will” and not “are”.

Couple the hostility seen from athiests with recent government and foolish people within the church, it is possible.


45 posted on 09/15/2013 2:36:27 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Vendome
I never asserted anyone claiming to be an aethiest is lying. In fact, I take them at their word.

Previously, you said:

Man knows there is a greater being

I said: Are you asserting that all atheists actually do believe in God, and just pretend they don't?

You said:

Yep.

I said: I, personally, have no belief in any deity. Do you think I'm lying?

You said:

I never asserted anyone claiming to be an aethiest is lying. In fact, I take them at their word.

And in the very same post, say:

As for your disavowel of God, yeah, you are probably full of it.

Sorry, but you're all over the place on this one. You're contradicting yourself with virtually every post.

46 posted on 09/15/2013 2:48:11 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
The way I phrased it is “will” and not “are”.

You also phrased it "can’t be told no", not "won't be told no"...mixed tenses in the same sentence, hence my confusion.

Couple the hostility seen from athiests with recent government and foolish people within the church, it is possible.

I suppose so, though I think it unlikely. Time will tell.

47 posted on 09/15/2013 2:50:52 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Hoodat

And still you’ll find the atheists organizations being in cahoots with (and sometimes led by) islamists. An example being Lars Gule, the Norwegian convicted islamic terrorist who for many years led the Norwegian atheist union.


48 posted on 09/15/2013 2:52:09 PM PDT by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Obama: the bearded lady of the Muslim Brotherhood))
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To: This I Wonder32460
I thought atheism was the lack of a belief in God

Correct.

and agnosticism was believing in God but not in religion.

Incorrect. Agnosticism is the view that whether or not a God (or gods) exists is unknown and (possibly) unknowable.

Is it odd that to have faith in God, yet lack faith in religious dogma?

Not in my view...it's certainly no weirder a view than that of any number of religions out there, and less weird than most!

49 posted on 09/15/2013 2:56:56 PM PDT by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Kip Russell

Won’t be told no is very different from can’t be told no.

Traditional Christians will be squeezed out.


50 posted on 09/15/2013 3:01:16 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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