Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Can Evangelical Chaplains Serve God and Country?—The Crisis Arrives
Southern Baptist Seminary ^ | 9/17/2013 | Dr. Al Mohler

Posted on 09/17/2013 11:44:24 AM PDT by darrellmaurina

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-49 next last
To: darrellmaurina; .45 Long Colt; nobdysfool
I am not the keeper of the GRPL, perhaps we need a conclave to decide if Nobdysfool is well enough to fulfill his duties or should step down.

Nothing happens in Reformed circles without a committee!

21 posted on 09/17/2013 1:38:48 PM PDT by Gamecock (Many Atheists take the stand: "There is no God AND I hate Him.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: darrellmaurina

Can chaplains committed to historic biblical Christianity serve in the United States military?

Well they have for decades. But in the new queer military of President seeks they will be driven out.


22 posted on 09/17/2013 3:05:35 PM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I go to sign for the American Revolution 2013 and the Crusades 2013?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jim Robinson; P-Marlowe; Alamo-Girl; darrellmaurina; Kolokotronis; Kathy in Alaska; onyx; ...

Thank you, Jim, for the ping. I certainly don’t speak for all chaplains, but, as a retired Army chaplain, I do have a career as a military chaplain to reference.

First, it might seem to civilians that this is a new issue. It really isn’t. It is the same issue as “praying in Jesus’ name.” The issue: “Shall chaplains adhering to biblical Christianity follow the dictates of their faith group or of the state?”

Some might not see this as the same issue. They will tell us that neutrality is easily attainable by saying “Dear Lord” instead of “In Jesus’ name”, and that God knows we actually mean “Jesus” by “Dear Lord.”

Could we not use a similar intellectual dodge with gay marriage? Could we not say, “By the laws of the state we declare you married?” instead of saying “In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, I now declare that you are husband and wife?” Wouldn’t God in that case also be able to sort through our mumbo-jumbo sophistry to the heart of what we really believed? Wouldn’t that, too, be neutral?

Here is the point: forced neutrality is always a violation of free exercise of religion. In fact, forced neutrality is an establishment of religion. It has its own tenets, its own liturgy, and its own doctrine. And it is enforced by the state every time a biblical chaplain is coerced by command influence or technical chain influence into saying “In God’s Name” instead of “In Jesus’ Name.” After all, one’s efficiency reports are being threatened, and even an average efficiency report amounts ultimately to a pink slip from your raters.

Next, does anyone really believe the Founders thought the public square should have neutrality police ensuring that Catholics didn’t hand out literature about Mary, and that Baptists didn’t hand out literature about immersion baptism? Do we believe that the Founders instructed these neutrality police in the public square to change their message to: “Oh thou Genderless One to whom we appeal!” or “You must have neutral rituals of your choice performed!” (Does anyone really think that was the cry of Gabriel or of John the Baptist?)

The Founders did not advocate for a state neutral religion, instead they advocated “free exercise of religion.” Note first that this does not say “free exercise of worship.” Worship suggests only the ritualistic side of religion that is generally considered to be held inside “houses of worship.”

Note second, that “religion” is all encompassing of the tenets of a particular faith group. This says the Founders thought it was far better to just live and let live, than to try to police every aspect of religious life. In other words, an American was expected to be an adult about religion. An adult knows that different religions have different requirements, and an adult knows he should expect to have religion intersect his pathway every now and then. His response? Keep walking or stop and converse. Above all, it’s a question of which is better: free thinking on these things or governmental religious police?

This gets us back to the military chaplains.

Apparently, someone is suggesting the military should have governmental religious police. Presbyterian Tom Carpenter thinks so. He even thinks the governmental religious police should conduct a pogrom of those who don’t follow some “US Neutral Religion” that he has elevated in his mind to a place of authority. Is this kind of idea a state religion, an establishment of religion?

Of course it is. It is even obvious that it is.

Enforced neutrality is not free expression. In fact, it is an establishment of religion. The Founders, on the other hand believed in “live and let live”, in being adults in an adult world, not in children triangulating in coalition with a greater parent against other siblings in order to enforce one’s own views on everyone else.

They believed that assembled groups or lone individuals could hear an “Amen”, a “Praise Jesus”, a “Hail Mary”, a “Shalom”, or even a “Hare Krishna” and put it in the context of an adult world.

I think they were right.


23 posted on 09/17/2013 3:33:52 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: xzins

What an excellent piece of writing. Thank you! I will use this in the future when I express my opinion on this issue.


24 posted on 09/17/2013 3:37:26 PM PDT by CityCenter (The solution to all problems is spiritual.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: darrellmaurina

Being a military chaplain right now has to be a difficult thing.


25 posted on 09/17/2013 3:43:53 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Viennacon

But the men and women in the military need their chaplains.


26 posted on 09/17/2013 3:46:06 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: darrellmaurina
‘Grunt Padre’ memorialized at Pentagon (Father Vincent Capodanno)
Obama's War On Religion In The Ranks
Grunt Padre Honored in Vietnam [Vincent J. Capodanno]
US military chaplains concerned about freedom of religion Introduction: The Miracle of Father Kapaun Priest, Soldier and Korean War Hero
Military archdiocese objects to Catholic 'extremist' label
CNS dispatch 1951: Fighting men on Korean front describe heroism of missing Catholic chaplain

Medal of Honor for US Army chaplain Father Kapaun
Army chaplain to get Medal of Honor posthumously (Fr Kapaun)
Chaplain Fr. Emil Kapaun: The Good Thief
Chaplain gets Medal of Honor 62 years after death (Outstanding story)
New: "The Miracle of Father Kapaun: Priest, Soldier and Korean War Hero"
Students Try to Banish Catholic Chaplain >From Campus for Anti-Gay Stance
Archbishop Broglio Delivers Homily of Thanksgiving for Service and Dedication of Pope Benedict XVI
Father Emil Kapaun to be Awarded Medal of Honor
New auxiliary bishop for military archdiocese, Bishop-designate Robert J. Coyle
February 3rd - Four Chaplain's Day

“We Have to Go Where The Suffering and Dying Are” [Military Chaplains]
‘We See the Lord in Combat’ - Remembering Servant of God Father Vincent Capodanno
Lawmakers Claim Air Force Culture Becoming 'Hostile Towards Religion'
‘Get in Line’ or ‘Resign’ Admiral Tells Military Chaplain
A Halo and a Medal for Emil Kapaun?
Prison Mates Promote Cause of Heroic Korean War Priest
Recognition Finally for a Warrior Priest's Heroics
ACTION ITEM ALERT! Pres. Obama, through a minion, attacks Catholic chaplains once again
Airborne Forces Priests Will Make Parachute Jumps During Their Training [Russia]
Religious Speech in the Military: Freedoms and Limitations

Soldier, Chaplain, Shepherd (Auxiliary Bishop Rick Spencer of the U.S. Archdiocese for Military)
Catholics Seek to Boost Number of Priests Serving as Chaplains
Catholic Chaplain Finds UK Troops in Afghanistan Hungering For Religion
U.S. troops in Afghanistan
Cross removed at base in Afghanistan
Mass During Wartime
The Traditional Latin Mass -- in Afghanistan
Uncle Sam attracts more (Catholic) military chaplains
Evangelical Chaplains Refuse to Marry Gay Couples on Military Bases
Over 2,000 Evangelical, Orthodox Chaplains Join Catholics in Opposing Pentagon on Same-Sex Marriage

2,000 Evangelical, Orthodox Chaplains Join Catholics in Opposing Pentagon Directive on SSM
No Same-Sex Weddings at West Point's Catholic Chapel, Says Military Archdiocese
Conflict between Pentagon and Catholic military chaplains brews over ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’
The (Catholic) Church's Noblest at Ground Zero
More men asking about becoming military chaplains
Catholic Caucus: Fr. Emil Kapaun: The Good Thief
Catholic Military Chaplains: America's Forgotten Heroes (Ecumenical)
Fr. Emil Kapaun Beatification Cause Heads to Rome [US Army Chaplain]
Two US Soldier Priests
Chaplain Groups Ask Military to Create Religious Liberty Protections

Australian Padre helps deployed soldiers tackle life challenges (Former SAS soldier turns chaplain)
Army says chaplain is first killed in action since 1970
Army Chaplain Dies in Afghanastan
With God in Iraq: A Day in the Life of a Military Chaplain
Soldier's Death Led Catholic Priest to Become Chaplain
Mass at National Shrine to honor Servant of God and heroic Navy chaplain
Prison chaplain remembers ("Behind the Walls with the Man Behind the Stole")
"Thanks God... and Thanks Mom" (Senate chaplain recalls his mom's amazing last day on earth)
Priest a wartime legend (Most decorated chaplain in Canadian army history dies at 106)
Catholic Navy chaplain shares story of Iraqi conversion (from 12/04/07)

27 posted on 09/17/2013 3:47:59 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Salvation; narses; wagglebee; NYer; Dr. Brian Kopp

see post #23


28 posted on 09/17/2013 3:57:52 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: CityCenter

Thank you for your kind words, CC. Please pray for all faithful chaplains in all branches of the military.


29 posted on 09/17/2013 4:00:20 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: xzins

Excellent post.


30 posted on 09/17/2013 4:52:01 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: xzins

And echoed by the Archbishop of the Military and several other chaplains that I heard speak at a Serra Club Conference.....note Serra....Father Junipero Serra...a few years ago.


31 posted on 09/17/2013 4:53:05 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: darrellmaurina

I think the PCUSA would like nothing better than for these fundamentalist Baptist chaplains to resign. This would open up the floodgates to the PCUSA perverted ways. The best thing in my opinion would be to stick around and, lovingly, stand by your convictions. But it’s hard to make a blanket statement. Everyone must do what they believe to be right in the eyes of the Lord, as long as they’re not compromising the position.

Some were bold like Elijah confronting Ahab.
Some served as the Lord’s spy in Ahab’s service.
Some hid in caves to escape Ahab.

They all were called by God and was doing exactly what God wanted them to do.


32 posted on 09/17/2013 5:31:04 PM PDT by HarleyD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Brian Kopp DPM; infool7; Heart-Rest; HoosierDammit; red irish; fastrock; NorthernCrunchyCon; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

33 posted on 09/17/2013 5:57:01 PM PDT by narses
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: darrellmaurina

This obviously applies to faithful Catholic chaplains as well as Evangelical chaplains.

As a Catholic, it is important to me to be able to get to Mass on Sundays. I had no problem with that during my time in the military in a variety of U.S. bases. Either we had a Catholic priest to say Mass on base, or we could drive to a Catholic church somewhere nearby.

But it is entirely another matter if you are stationed abroad, in a place of violence, or a Muslim country, or a war zone. You need a chaplain to say Mass and to hear confessions. If you are liable to get killed any time, you need these things badly. And if you get wounded or are dying, you certainly want a priest around as much as you want a medic.

I would assume much the same for Evangelicals, or for any traditionally minded Christians. Having a chaplain is a necessity in a war zone, if it is at all possible.

So, it’s all very well to suggest that faithful chaplains will have to get out of this new model army. But the cost would be devastating.


34 posted on 09/17/2013 6:35:35 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: darrellmaurina

The United States government has absolutely no right to hire chaplains from any denomination or religion for the military or any other area of our government. If a believer joins the military and is blessed to witness or minister to other believers, they cannot be stopped. However, tax dollars should never be used to establish, support, or promote any religion or religious activity.

As for the prohibitions regarding prayer, no man can prohibit true prayer at any time, as it is the Spirit that makes intercessions with groanings that cannot be uttered!


35 posted on 09/17/2013 6:44:31 PM PDT by Hardshell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: darrellmaurina; .45 Long Colt; nobdysfool
There is smoke! We have a co-keeper of the GRPL!

.45 Long Colt: Do you affirm monergistic regeneration?

36 posted on 09/17/2013 6:57:11 PM PDT by Gamecock (Many Atheists take the stand: "There is no God AND I hate Him.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Hardshell

I agree with James Madison on this issue. See “Detached Memoranda”

“Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of religious freedom?

In strictness the answer on both points must be in the negative. The Constitution of the U. S. forbids everything like an establishment of a national religion. The law appointing Chaplains establishes a religious worship for the national representatives, to be performed by Ministers of religion, elected by a majority of them; and these are to be paid out of the national taxes. Does not this involve the principle of a national establishment, applicable to a provision for a religious worship for the Constituent as well as of the representative Body, approved by the majority, and conducted by Ministers of religion paid by the entire nation.

The establishment of the chaplainship to Congs is a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles: The tenets of the chaplains elected [by the majority] shut the door of worship agst the members whose creeds & consciences forbid a participation in that of the majority. To say nothing of other sects, this is the case with that of Roman Catholics & Quakers who have always had members in one or both of the Legislative branches. Could a Catholic clergyman ever hope to be appointed a Chaplain? To say that his religious principles are obnoxious or that his sect is small, is to lift the evil at once and exhibit in its naked deformity the doctrine that religious truth is to be tested by numbers. or that the major sects have a right to govern the minor.”

Is this not also true of the military chaplaincy?


37 posted on 09/17/2013 6:58:30 PM PDT by Hardshell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: xzins
Beautifully said, dear brother in Christ, thank you so much for all your insights!
38 posted on 09/17/2013 7:04:09 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: xzins
Enforced neutrality is not free expression. In fact, it is an establishment of religion.

Great point and an overall excellent analysis, xzins. I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this matter.
39 posted on 09/17/2013 7:22:08 PM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

With all my heart


40 posted on 09/17/2013 7:23:22 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-49 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson