John 6:53 - Unless you eat My flesh

http://proclaimingthegospel.org/equip/articles/47-john-6-53-unless-you-eat-my-flesh ^ | Unknown | Mike Gendron

[Stingray]

“...and who follows the church that He founded...”

The only “church” Jesus founded was the one founded upon the rock of profession of faith in Him. Those who believe are complete in Him, regardless of whether they are Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Baptist, Methodist, or Lutheran.

[Stingray]

“And I suppose you believe that Israel was replaced by the church as well correct?”

Well, that’s what happens when you divorce one woman and marry another. The harlot is replaced by the bride. The bride is Christ’s church. Read Revelation 21 again. The “new heaven and earth” (spiritual Israel; the church) replaces the “old heaven and earth” (physical Israel; the Law) because the old heaven and earth is a metaphor for the land of Israel and it’s Temple. Again, these references can be understood by cracking open the Old Testament.

New covenant replaced the Old.

“Revelation was written around 96AD and in the first verse of the first chapter we read this.”

Revelation was written no later than 68 AD. Period.

“So it’s your contention that John was given a vision of things that must yet “come to pass” and that what he was shown was a “prophecy” were things that had already happened? Seriously?”

He was told to write of things that were, things that are, and things that will be. The things that “will be” were imminent to the people to whom and for whom he was writing these letters, as expressed repeatedly in the book with words like “soon” and “near.”

Try reading something other than Hal Lindsey.

“Both internal and external evidence show Revelation to have been written near the end of the first century around 96AD.”

Absolutely untrue, as some of the directives in the book would make no sense after the destruction of Jerusalem (”go measure the Temple.”)

“Preterists have been proven wrong over and over again.”

Keep telling yourself that.

[Stingray]

>> “Revelation was completely fulfilled in 70 AD, with the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple.” <<

“The chief tenets of Satan’s cult of the blind!”

(He says as he hurls insults.) Missed irony 101, perhaps?

“The Revelation was written at least 22 years after the destruction of Jerusalem.”

Nope. It was written no later than 68 AD.

“And Yochanan was not a history teacher, he was a major prophet.”

He wrote of what was (history), what is (current events), and what will be (prophecy) to seven churches in Asia Minor (Turkey.) And he did so because those things that “would be” were about to happen, expressed through the use of words like “soon” and “near.”

Revelation was a letter of warning and encouragement to people living as its events unfolded right before their eyes almost 2,000 years ago. It has nothing to do with us!

[Stingray]

“You belong to a strange cult!”

Two things:

You know nothing about me or what I belong to and;

This thread isn’t about me even if you did.

Discussion welcome. Personal attacks you can leave at the door.

“The Revelation is Yeshua’s 5th gospel.”

Certainly an unorthodox view, but matters little one way or another to the discussion at hand.

“It is literal in its general respects, using figurative language only to better set the scene for its prophecies.”

I have no idea what this even means.

“You need to get out of the cult and find Yeshua, the real one, not the Greek Jesus.”

You really need to lay off the personal attacks. It says little about your ability to argue. It says even less about your “Christ-likeness.”

[johngrace]

Excellent.

[Elsie]

Sigh...

[Elsie]

this site is anti catholic

DUH!

No PRO-catholic site would mention it.

[Elsie]

nice condemnation of a group of misguided but nevertheless good people.....such a Christian thing to do... Yup; they ARE condemned all right!

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"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

[Elsie]

nice condemnation of a group of misguided but nevertheless good people.....such a Christian thing to do...

I know...

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Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[verga]

Actually I am going by the adage that it is a good idea not to wrestle with a pig in the mud. The pig enjoys it to much, you both get dirty, and it is difficult to tell the two apart.

[Elsie]

495

[verga]

Statements of fact are not slurs.

[Elsie]

The only question is whether you actually believe it, or whether you think that the end justifies the means.

Bring it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WJXHY2OXGE

[Elsie]

The facts are set against you.

All good verses; but the FACT remains that Jerusalem; itself; is NOT beside many waters.

[Elsie]

Absolutely untrue, as some of the directives in the book would make no sense after the destruction of Jerusalem (”go measure the Temple.”)

Oh?

The “new heaven and earth” (spiritual Israel; the church) replaces the “old heaven and earth” (physical Israel; the Law) because the old heaven and earth is a metaphor for the land of Israel and it’s Temple.

THIS claim is senseless!

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Chapter 21

21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

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Last time I looked...

We STILL have seas.

We STILL have the OLD Jerusalem, complete with fighting over the Temple Mount.

We STILL have tears and death and mourning and crying and pain...

[Elsie]

It says even less about your “Christ-likeness.”

These characterizations are almost as good as this little kid...

And; almost as effective.

[Elsie]

Then stay away from pigs.

They don’t read their bible much away; so the farmer has to explain it to them at slop time.

[verga]

I have personally corrected elsie on this twice. Protestants will never allow the facts to get in the way of their opinion.

[Elsie]

That’s what I keep telling some folks; but they want to take it personally anyway.

[verga]

My maternal grandfather was an Italian immigrant from Pioppo that was excommunicated specifically for having a Bible in his posession.

What version/ translation did he have and what was he doing with it. There is more to this story than you are telling.