Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Will the pope OK married priests?
Bonfire of the Vanities ^ | September 18, 2013 | FR MARTIN FOX

Posted on 09/18/2013 3:41:28 PM PDT by NYer

Last week, the newly appointed Vatican Secretary of State made news when, in answer to a question about the Church's ancient practice of priestly (and episcopal) celibacy, acknowledged that this was not a dogma, and it was certainly possible to discuss a change in this discipline.

The news media predictably made much of this; and for a lot of folks, this seemed to be something new.

Well...it's not.

I think, if you were to do an Internet search, you'd find that similar comments have been made by someone "high up" in the Church during the reign of the last three or four popes (with the possible exception of Pope John Paul I, who reigned about a month). It's a perennial question; and the recent answer is the stock answer. It's not the answer I, as a former PR man, would have advised--but this would hardly be the first time one of our prelates handled a question in a way that makes people savvy in media relations cringe.

For what it's worth, my PR advice would have consisted of asking the pope: do you want to generate controversy over this? No? Then I'd have suggested a response along the lines of saying the age-old discipline of celibacy has served the Roman Rite well, and while people are free to advocate for a change, the odds are extraordinarily slim at best that it's going to be changed now.

Meanwhile, the Secretary of State said we can "talk about it," so let's talk about it.

The reading today from St. Paul's first letter to St. Timothy mentioned the families of bishops, raising the question of whether, in the early church, bishops, as well as priests, might have been married. Well, they might indeed have been. But what people forget is that they might also have been expected, after ordination, to remain "continent"--i.e., no longer having marital relations.

But in any case, what people forget is that it was both what Paul wrote elsewhere in his letters, as well as what the Gospels report of our Lord's own instructions, on the value of celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom that provides a clear Biblical support for the discipline. Paul said it best: an unmarried man can serve the Lord without being pulled in two directions. And that's obviously true.

My classmate, the late Father Dan Schuh, said it as well as anyone. Father Schuh was, like me, a later vocation; before entering the seminary, he married, and before his wife died, they had two children. His two grandchildren were present for his (and my) ordination; and when one of them called out, "grandpa!" Archbishop Pilarczyk said it was something he never thought he'd hear at an ordination!

Those of us in the seminary with Dan who hadn't been married asked his take on the "married priest" question. And here is his answer: "what woman would want to be put in second place, or deserve to?"

And that is exactly right. That is an inevitable choice for any married man, pressed by his other obligations; now imagine that married man being your parish priest.

My humorous answer--when someone asks what I think about married priests--is to smile and say, "I'm amused that you think my life would be easier if I had a wife and children." Now, I fear some women think I'm making a crack; but I'm not--I'm just trying to make Father Schuh's point a different way.

Married priests mean priests with children and all that entails. Perhaps with large families. This means fundamental changes in housing arrangements and other financial arrangements for parishes.

Here's a detail that many overlook--but attend carefully here, because this is more significant than you may realize:

At issue isn't whether priests can marry--that will never happen. Repeat: never!

Instead, what is at issue is whether married men might become priests. That is what is potentially possible.

This is not a semantical difference.

While there is ample tradition--to this day--for married men being priests (among the Orthodox and other Eastern Christians), as far as I know, there has never been allowance for men, once ordained, to be married. If their wives die, they remain unmarried. This is the norm, right now, for deacons.

Whether that's good or bad is irrelevant; one thing I predict confidently is that the pope isn't going to overturn an established tradition common to all the ancient, apostolic Churches. It would create a vexing new problem for ecumenism, precisely because it would be a true innovation. I cannot conceive of a reason for any pope to go down that road.

But here's why this distinction matters. Given what I said, any change would mean, in practical terms, that for a priest to be married, he must marry first.

Which means that many of the men who now decide to enter the seminary at a younger age--in their 20s and 30s--would have a reason to wait. Wait until they marry.

But guess what? Once they marry, then they face three huge issues every married person faces:

> Building a good marriage
> Job, career and economic security
> Children

All right, show of hands: who wants to add, to this, the fourth concern: discerning if you are called to be a priest, and then entering seminary and becoming a priest?

Clearly, such men as I describe, who would want to be priests, and who I don't doubt would be good priests, would have huge reasons to wait. And wait. And wait.

This is not hypothetical; this is precisely what happens with married men who are attracted to the vocation of deacon.

We have wonderful deacons, and I'm glad we do. And we have a good number of them. We ordain 20-30 of them every three years. That's a lot.

However, ask them: are you able to be full time like the parish priest?

No; only some of them have a parish-based job. None of them has the expectation that priests do, of the Church providing them a living. That would be a difficult promise for the Church to make to deacons--aside from the added cost--precisely because it would be so different from case to case. This deacon has no children; this one has two, but they're grown; this one has young children; this one has ten children of all ages. Notice: we've had married deacons for approximately 40 years, and this is one of many questions unresolved for the Church. When's the last time you saw any of the bishops talk publicly about how they were going to address this? Probably never!

So picture a scene: a small U-Haul trailer sitting outside the bishop's front door, labeled "thorny problems related to the permanent diaconate we don't want to deal with." It's been there 40 years. What are the odds the bishop wants you to deliver another one, only a lot bigger?

Here's something else. People often say, allowing married men to be priests will mean more vocations. I assume they are right. But I wonder how many of those new vocations will be existing deacons? Will we allow them to be considered? I don't see why not. It would make sense; they would already have some of the needed theological training, and parish experience.

So, great: we get new priests! But we have fewer deacons. It might be a trade-off we can live with, but this is not usually how the promised new vocations is presented.

There are couple more practical considerations:

> Married priests means parishes will be confronted with all the drama and complications that their married clergy are dealing with: basically, every marital and family problem there is.

This is often presented as a benefit: our priests will experience these things first hand. Aside from the fallacies implicit in that sort of thinking, let's stop and consider what this really means.

When Father and Mrs. Jones are having troubles, the parish will have a ringside seat. Imagine the fun on the grapevine! As it is, whenever a couple is pulled apart, family and friends are confronted with the question, "whose side are you on?" Now we can introduce this dynamic into the parish.

Also, consider what it will be like when the priest talks about the immorality of using contraception, and people start counting how many children he has. And, yes, that's exactly what folks will do.

Now consider all the range of parenting challenges--but lived out in a glass house. Here's an easy case study: Father and Mrs. Jones's first two children are doing fine in the Catholic school; but the third child, for whatever reason, is struggling. They decide to shift this child to a non-Catholic school.

Imagine that news getting around the parish.

I can go on--those of you who are parents know about some of the really difficult things you have faced as you raise your children. Would you really want all that to be part of parish chatter?

This is not hypothetical: this is precisely what happens with Protestant clergy.

Speaking of Protestant clergy, there is a special dynamic that happens precisely with married clergy: the question of the pastor's spouse. What's her role in the parish? Is she co-pastor? Does she chair a committee? Hold a job? To whom is she accountable?

If you have Protestant friends who have been very involved in their churches, ask them about this.

As someone said after Mass this morning--reacting, in part, to what I said in my homily--"a lot of folks haven't thought through all the implications." Exactly right.

My assessment is this: if we made that change, we would trade one set of problems for another. While we might like our new problems better, that's far from self-evident.

Finally, a theological consideration.

While it's certainly true that there's no essential barrier to a married priesthood, there are some compelling theological considerations--rooted in the Scriptures, and in the life of our Savior.

Many who advocate allowing married men to become priests simply ignore the strong witness of Scripture, and Tradition, and the Lord himself, in favor of celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom. As far as anyone knows, Jesus himself did not marry. Taking him simply as a prophet (he's more than that, of course), this is not without precedent. But insofar as he is--in his own words--the "Bridegroom," then it's exactly correct. How can Jesus marry, when his "Bride" is the Church?

When clergy, and laity who are in religious communities, embrace celibacy, they are a sign of the kingdom. If a married man is on a business trip, away from his family, and if someone were to approach him, and perhaps express interest, what does a faithful husband say? "No thanks, I'm spoken for" as he points toward his wedding ring.

That's exactly what celibate priests and religious are saying by their vow of celibacy. And they also say, "I'm waiting for Someone"--that someone is the Bridegroom.

People mistakenly think that the practice of celibacy somehow denigrates marriage--as if the practice of fasting denigrates food! Setting aside the obvious fact that Catholics deem marriage so holy, it's a sacrament, celibacy only makes sense--as a prophetic sign--precisely because of how good marriage is. No one would be impressed by a vow to avoid drinking poison. But a vow to give up something very good is impressive. Why would you give up something? As a sign that your hope is fixed on something even better.

After Mass, someone asked me this morning, aren't there priests who don't agree with you? Indeed there are. What I've just shared is my own judgment and perspective, and it's worth every penny you paid for it!

But my answer to the question posed by the headline?

I think it's extraordinarily unlikely the pope will change this discipline. If he were even to do it, he'd have to involve all the bishops. Personally, I think such an initiative would be very ill advised. If he ever calls me (you laugh; but he's doing that sort of thing, apparently), who knows? Maybe I'll tell him myself.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: celibacy; marriedpriests; popefrancis; priests
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-54 next last

1 posted on 09/18/2013 3:41:28 PM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: NYer

No.


2 posted on 09/18/2013 3:45:34 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE http://steshaw.org/econohttp://www.fee.org/library/det)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...
I posted the following comment to the thread.


The subject of married priests is one raised only last weekend at my Maronite Catholic parish. As a Roman Catholic, practicing my faith in an Eastern Catholic Church, I was prepared for the question.

In October 2005, Cardinal Sfeir, (then) Patriarch of the Maronite Church, addressed this topic at the 11th General Synod Fathers, gathered for their eighth meeting at the Vatican. The Cardinal defended the practice of the celibate priesthood and discussed the beauty of the tradition, calling it the "most precious jewel in the treasury of the Catholic Church."

While pointing out that "the Maronite Church admits married priests" and that "half of our diocesan priests are married", the Cardinal Patriarch said that "it must be recognized that if admitting married men resolves one problem, it creates others just as serious."

"A married priest", he said, "has the duty to look after his wife and family, ensuring his children receive a good education and overseeing their entry into society. ... Another difficulty facing a married priest arises if he does not enjoy a good relationship with his parishioners; his bishop cannot transfer him because of the difficulty of transferring his whole family.

He noted that "married priests have perpetuated the faith among people whose difficult lives they shared, and without them this faith would no longer exist."

"On the other hand," he said, "celibacy is the most precious jewel in the treasury of the Catholic Church,"

It should be pointed out that the Maronite Catholic Church, in respect of priestly celibacy practiced by the Latin Church, only sends celibate priests to serve outside of Lebanon. Our pastor is a celibate priest and missionary, and member of a monastic community.

Once this information had been conveyed, the visiting RC caught on very quickly, saying he had never considered these other aspects and the ramifications they would have on a local parish. For the most part, here in the US, parish communities are much smaller than their Latin Rite counterparts. We can barely support a celibate priest, much less one that is married with children.


It should also be noted that with regard to married priests, the process is to marry first. Essentially, a married man with a wife and family applies to become a priest. The marriage is carefully scrutinized so as not to give scandal. Ultimately, the marriage vow precedes that of the priest; hence, the family is the primary responsibility, not the parish.

3 posted on 09/18/2013 3:45:53 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Roman Catholics already have married priests.

When a Orthodox clergy or Church of England clergy converts to Catholic, he is normally permitted to be a Roman Catholic priest, and to retain his wife, if he has one.


4 posted on 09/18/2013 3:51:38 PM PDT by donmeaker (Youth is wasted on the young.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

The pope is confusing me. He states that homos won’t go to hell and you really don’t have to believe in God and is now considering priests getting married. Will he allow them to wed nuns, other priests. I’m not being sarcastic, I am really confused


5 posted on 09/18/2013 3:52:07 PM PDT by shadeaud (Stay Thirsty My Friends)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: shadeaud

What the press says the pope says is not necessarily what the pope says.

Perhaps they’re accurate, but don’t bet on it.


6 posted on 09/18/2013 3:57:10 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Reminds me of the south park episode where they mistranslated the word “celebrate”


7 posted on 09/18/2013 3:57:52 PM PDT by jrg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer; donmeaker

Even if the disciplined was relaxed, currently unmarried priests would not be able to get married. They have already made their vows.


8 posted on 09/18/2013 3:58:07 PM PDT by nickcarraway
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: shadeaud
The pope is confusing me. He states that homos won’t go to hell and you really don’t have to believe in God and is now considering priests getting married. Will he allow them to wed nuns, other priests. I’m not being sarcastic, I am really confused

You come across as more sarcastic than confused. Sorry. Just being honest.

Catholic Answers

9 posted on 09/18/2013 4:01:19 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Dating Priests,
Divorced Priests,
Roaming Priests,

....what could go wrong?


10 posted on 09/18/2013 4:06:01 PM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: G Larry

lol! It THIS isn’t a future Oprah episode, I don’t know what is..


11 posted on 09/18/2013 4:08:23 PM PDT by smvoice (The 2 greatest days of your life: the day you're born. And the day you discover why.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: NYer

The whole question is moot since there were no priests in the Christian church to marry or not marry.


12 posted on 09/18/2013 4:20:31 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

I doubt it; however, I think he had a girlfriend and was in love before he decided to become a priest. In some of the eastern rites, priests do marry, but most of the parishes are small and don’t require as much time. It must be very costly for the parish to support a priest and his family.


13 posted on 09/18/2013 4:20:39 PM PDT by Coleus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
With all due respect to the Pope, people really need to consider what the Holy Bible says about this issue. And Apostle Paul had been inspired to write 1 Timothy 3:1-5 (I'm looking at KJV).

3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife (emphasis added), vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) (emphasis added)

And unless God "repealed" that passage, I don't know why the Roman Catholic Church prohibits priests from marrying.

Insights, corrections welcome.

14 posted on 09/18/2013 4:22:37 PM PDT by Amendment10
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shadeaud

But that does beg the question, why is nobody asking about nuns getting married? Doesn’t it at least warrant discussion? If it is that crucial for men, it should also at least be considered for women.


15 posted on 09/18/2013 4:25:06 PM PDT by Burkean (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: G Larry

The question the Pope of Rome is raising is, as the article amply pointed out, whether the discipline peculiar to the Latin Rite, might be replaced with the normal practice of the Eastern Churches, both us Orthodox and the Uniates: priests may not marry, but married men may be ordained to the priesthood.

In Eastern usage, ordination to the priesthood, or even the diaconate, requires the consent of the wife. Either married couples embark in the route toward the husband’s ordination together, or an unmarried man, who does not wish to embrace life-long celibacy, having completed seminary, waits (usually as a reader, since in Russian usage, even subdeacons may not marry) until he finds an marries a woman who wants to be a presbytera (or matushka or khouria, depending on which Old Country language you favor) who wishes to marry him, marries, and is ordained.
Very often daughters of priests find the idea of living less fully immersed in the rhythm of church life than they were while growing up unappealing, and if celibacy and a monastic profession not for them, try to marry seminarians before their ordination.


16 posted on 09/18/2013 4:37:03 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Burkean

The male analogue of a nun is a monk, not a priest. And no one (with any sense) is advovating or even considering letting priests marry — that is universally forbidden by ancient canons. The discussion is solely whether married men ought be ordained to the priesthood, as they are in the Eastern Churches and your Anglican Ordinariate, in the Latin rite generally.


17 posted on 09/18/2013 4:39:55 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: donmeaker
When a Orthodox clergy or Church of England clergy converts to Catholic, he is normally permitted to be a Roman Catholic priest, and to retain his wife, if he has one.

Not related to this discussion which is to life celibacy as a discipline in for seminarians in the Latin Church.

18 posted on 09/18/2013 4:42:00 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: shadeaud
The pope is confusing me. He states that homos won’t go to hell and you really don’t have to believe in God and is now considering priests getting married. Will he allow them to wed nuns, other priests. I’m not being sarcastic, I am really confused

Priest, be they Latin or Eastern Rite may NEVER marry. The discussion is about lifting the discipline of celibacy for seminarians.

19 posted on 09/18/2013 4:43:47 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: NYer

“Will the Pope give up the whole ‘religion’ thing and embrace communism?”

Seriously, where do they come up with this stuff?


20 posted on 09/18/2013 4:50:30 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (The best War on Terror News is at rantburg.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Burkean; shadeaud
But that does beg the question, why is nobody asking about nuns getting married?

For the same reason that priests may not marry.

There seems to be much confusion over this topic. Priestly celibacy is a discipline. Were it to be lifted, married men could apply to become priests. Note the difference.

With regard to women's religious communities, certain communities offer married women the opportunity to participate as members of a "third" order. These women do not join the convent but serve in a different capacity.

21 posted on 09/18/2013 4:54:33 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Coleus
In some of the eastern rites, priests do marry ...

WRONG! In some of the Eastern Churches, married men may apply to become priests. BIG difference. Once accepted, should their wife die, they may not remarry.

22 posted on 09/18/2013 4:56:30 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: NYer

It addresses the title, “Will the Pope OK Married Priests?”

They already have. Oddly, Baptists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians and Methodists seem to manage married clergy.

Sure, they get the occasional crank, but they recruit fewer pederasts.


23 posted on 09/18/2013 5:02:13 PM PDT by donmeaker (Youth is wasted on the young.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Burkean

because the nuns are lesbians...


24 posted on 09/18/2013 5:03:20 PM PDT by donmeaker (Youth is wasted on the young.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: The_Reader_David

ya...one of our Parish Priests is a married former Episcopalian.


25 posted on 09/18/2013 5:25:12 PM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: shadeaud; NYer
"The pope is confusing me. He states that homos won’t go to hell and you really don’t have to believe in God and is now considering priests getting married. Will he allow them to wed nuns, other priests."

Dear shadeaud, I’m glad you're not being sarcastic, because you are really confused! Everything you mentioned in that paragraph is untrue!

The Pope didn't say that "homos won't go to hell" --- that is, if they engage in the sin of sodomy and don't repent, they will (like any other unrepentant sinner.) He did say that if a man just has an unbidden attraction to other men (a homosexual temptation) he won't be "judged" a sinner if he does not give in to the temptation, and does not sin! Make sense?

He also didn't say that you don't have to believe in God. In that much misquoted letter which he sent to the atheist editor of La Reppublica, Pope Francis said "You [the atheist he was writing to] can be saved if you turn to Him with a sincere and contrite heart."

It's possible that part wasn't quoted in whatever garbled version of it you might have read. The secular press tends to cut out that kind of thing.

Third, neither the Pope nor any other knowledgeable person in the Church ever said that "priests will be allowed to get married." That is NOT possible. Once a priest has made a vow of celibacy, he is not an 'eligible bachelor'!

As this article points out, in some of the Eastern Catholic Churches (e.g. the Maronites and Melkites in Lebanon, the Chaldeans in Iraq, etc.) they already have the practice that married men can become priests. In that order: first marry, then be ordained as a priest. But not in the reverse order: priest, then marry. That ain't happening. Nor has, never will!

It aggravates me that the Pope is so much misquoted, and so misconstrued. It means people like myself have to go around correcting the record,

"This is what he said!"
and
"This is what he didn't say!!"
all over the blogosphere.

:`:`sigh:`:`

Any questions? Tagline.


26 posted on 09/18/2013 5:41:17 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The problem ain't what folks don't know. It's what they DO know, that ain't so!" - Will Rogers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: G Larry

That’s why priests can’t get married.


27 posted on 09/18/2013 5:42:14 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The problem ain't what folks don't know. It's what they DO know, that ain't so!" - Will Rogers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Amendment10; NYer
The Catholic Church in the West (Latin Rite) has a celibate priesthood. In the 21 Churches of the East (Melkite, Maronite, Chaldean, Byzantine, etc.) married men are often ordained priests.

Roman Catholicism has married deacons. In fact, we have more married deacons in the US (14,000) than we have priests in religious orders like the Jesuits and the Franciscans (13,000).

If a man wanted to have the vows of Holy Orders AND the vows of matrimony, after he was married he could become an Eastern Rite priest or he could be an ordained deacon.

Or, o the other hand, he might have a vocation as a celibate Latin priest. Whatever his calling is (married or celibate, laity or clergy), it is a special gift from God.

It's all a matter of what his calling is from the Lord. St. Paul, who wrote that excellent description of what the qualifications of a bishop should be (in the Letter to Timothy) is also the one who also recommended celibacy:

"It is well for a man not to touch a woman.... I wish that all were [unmarried] as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another (1 Cor. 7:1,7).

That's good Scriptural advice, isn't it?

28 posted on 09/18/2013 5:55:06 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The problem ain't what folks don't know. It's what they DO know, that ain't so!" - Will Rogers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o; Amendment10; Coleus

Excellent. Very well expressed! To compliment your treatise, I would like to point out that the Eastern Churches also have celibate priests. Our pastor initially intended to marry before becoming a priest. In the process of his discernment, he felt a strong calling to live a monastic life as a missionary. That led him to enter the Maronite Lebanese Missionary community and be ordained as a celibate priest. He now serves as pastor in a small Maronite parish in the US.


29 posted on 09/18/2013 6:05:59 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o
Pope Francis said "You [the atheist he was writing to] can be saved if you turn to Him with a sincere and contrite heart."

That quote always kind of puzzles me. Doesn't it mean the atheist isn't an atheist anymore? How else could one turn to Him in whom the atheist doesn't believe exists? I conclude that atheists who remain atheists probably won't be saved but those who do not might well be (in other words, same as what we have believed all along).

30 posted on 09/18/2013 6:07:43 PM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: donmeaker
Sure, they get the occasional crank, but they recruit fewer pederasts.

Sexual Abuse of Children by Protestant Ministers

31 posted on 09/18/2013 6:08:06 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: NYer

And these are the ones people know about.


32 posted on 09/18/2013 6:12:56 PM PDT by donmeaker (Youth is wasted on the young.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

I suppose a priest could be defrocked, marry, and then become a priest again.

Did Martin Luther do that?


33 posted on 09/18/2013 6:14:51 PM PDT by donmeaker (Youth is wasted on the young.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
The whole question is moot since there were no priests in the Christian church to marry or not marry.

WOW, thanks for setting us straight....the priests and bishops of the first 500 years of Christianity thank you for clearing this up!!!

34 posted on 09/18/2013 6:21:53 PM PDT by terycarl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Burkean
But that does beg the question, why is nobody asking about nuns getting married? Doesn’t it at least warrant discussion? If it is that crucial for men, it should also at least be considered for women

priests , parish priests, live alone in a (usually) parish owned rectory...house..Nuns, on the other hand, usually live in communities with other nuns....hard to slip a husband in there!!!

35 posted on 09/18/2013 6:26:02 PM PDT by terycarl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: terycarl

The Scriptures say nothing about a priesthood in the Christian church.


36 posted on 09/18/2013 6:28:11 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: donmeaker
Sure, they get the occasional crank, but they recruit fewer pederasts.

wrong

37 posted on 09/18/2013 6:29:21 PM PDT by terycarl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: donmeaker
because the nuns are lesbians...

it never fails to amaze me how asinine some people can be....pathetic

38 posted on 09/18/2013 6:31:20 PM PDT by terycarl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
The Scriptures say nothing about a priesthood in the Christian church

scripture also says nothing about a legitimate protestant organization within the Christian chuch either.

39 posted on 09/18/2013 6:39:45 PM PDT by terycarl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: terycarl

Not relevant to the point. There were no priests in the Christian church therefore nothing in Scripture about such a priesthood.


40 posted on 09/18/2013 6:49:01 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: shadeaud

Well that’s not what he said but your right it can be confusing.


41 posted on 09/18/2013 6:54:48 PM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: shadeaud

You may be confused, but I don’t think it’s the fault of Pope Francis.


42 posted on 09/18/2013 6:57:26 PM PDT by Jvette
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Amendment10

Afraid to look up filthy lucre.


43 posted on 09/18/2013 7:00:21 PM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Burkean

Penis rules I guess.


44 posted on 09/18/2013 7:01:22 PM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: terycarl
Some of them are.Hold your ears or best not to post here.I know a woman who left a convent,won 100 mil I think and confessed to her husband and children she was a lesbian.Somehow the family stayed together.I was a little involved with helping the son.He was crushed.
45 posted on 09/18/2013 7:16:11 PM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Jvette

Yes it is.Being simple can be complicated.He is new and will learn.


46 posted on 09/18/2013 7:18:04 PM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: terycarl

So are you complaining that I left the /sarc tag off?


47 posted on 09/18/2013 7:36:02 PM PDT by donmeaker (Youth is wasted on the young.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: steve86
That's right. Nobody can reject Jesus Christ at the end, and be saved. Rejecting your only rescuer, is the same as refusing to be rescued!
48 posted on 09/19/2013 2:57:21 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The problem ain't what folks don't know. It's what they DO know, that ain't so!" - Will Rogers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: donmeaker

I don’t think Martin Luther became a priest again.


49 posted on 09/19/2013 2:58:31 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The problem ain't what folks don't know. It's what they DO know, that ain't so!" - Will Rogers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

Which was my point.


50 posted on 09/19/2013 4:45:21 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-54 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson