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Pope Bluntly Faults Church’s Focus on Gays and Abortion
New York Times ^ | September 19, 2013 | Laurie Goodstein

Posted on 09/19/2013 8:46:24 AM PDT by Alter Kaker

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1 posted on 09/19/2013 8:46:24 AM PDT by Alter Kaker
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To: Alter Kaker
I know this is the Slimes, but they are using direct quotes here, which are damning.
2 posted on 09/19/2013 8:48:23 AM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Alter Kaker

Non habemus papam.


3 posted on 09/19/2013 8:48:40 AM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Alter Kaker

Obsessed???? I haven’t heard a PEEP from a Priest for years and years!!!


4 posted on 09/19/2013 8:48:45 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion......the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Alter Kaker
“It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time,” the pope told the Rev. Antonio Spadaro, a fellow Jesuit and editor in chief of La Civiltà Cattolica, the Italian Jesuit journal whose content is routinely approved by the Vatican. “The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently..."

Ping for later

5 posted on 09/19/2013 8:49:20 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: Alter Kaker

He has choosen to to talk about homosexuality, what?
Seems like he talks about it a lot.
If a church cannot talk about sin, doesn’t seem like they are much of a church.


6 posted on 09/19/2013 8:49:20 AM PDT by svcw (Stand or die)
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To: svcw

can’t we all just get along?

sarc


7 posted on 09/19/2013 8:51:07 AM PDT by silverleaf (Going to war without the French is like going hunting without an accordion.)
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To: Alter Kaker
As I feared he would, he has doubled down.

There is no longer any safety in swimming the Tiber.

8 posted on 09/19/2013 8:51:17 AM PDT by jboot (It can happen here because it IS happening here.)
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To: Alter Kaker

Hmmmm...maybe old St Malachy was right after all. I’m very quickly losing confidence in our new pope.


9 posted on 09/19/2013 8:52:21 AM PDT by pgkdan (Marco Rubio can go straight to hell!)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: Alter Kaker

I still consider Benedict XVI to be my pope.


11 posted on 09/19/2013 8:55:16 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Ann Archy
I haven’t heard a PEEP from a Priest for years and years!!!

Well, ours does (Latin Mass Priest) and the majority of priests in this state were outspoken against the new marriage perversion law. In addition they regularly speak of pro-life issues. THIS IS WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING and I have to wonder if St. Malachy is going to make a resurgence with respect to this pope!

Can the ill-translation apologists defend this one???

12 posted on 09/19/2013 8:55:55 AM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
I still consider Benedict XVI to be my pope.

Yes, I was a little rough on Cardinal Ratzinger on another thread for some of his statements on Fatima but as pope, he did and does lead my church.

13 posted on 09/19/2013 8:59:00 AM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: Alter Kaker
“It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time,”
Pope sounds harangued by the Liberal MSM and is attempting an end run around them.
14 posted on 09/19/2013 9:02:39 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.


15 posted on 09/19/2013 9:04:18 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Don't blame me for McCain.)
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To: Alter Kaker

I can’t remember the last time I heard ANYTHING about homosexuals, contraception, or abortion from the Pulpit. It’s been many years, if not decades.

All I hear is ‘social justice’ and ‘fairness’ to the (illegal) immigrant and redistribution of wealth and how the nation’s ills are caused by ‘fat cats’ on Wall St. while giving no consideration to the corruption in government.

He must be referring to European churches.


16 posted on 09/19/2013 9:08:46 AM PDT by MichaelCorleone (Jesus Christ is not a religion. He's the Truth.)
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To: Alter Kaker
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

Those who "promote" abortion and sodomy should be rebuked and put out of the church. This isn't a starting point but only after the person is shown the error of their ways. Politicians in the US particularly thumb their nose at church doctrine and they continue to "fellowship" even though they are living in darkness.

17 posted on 09/19/2013 9:09:19 AM PDT by missnry (The truth will set you free ... and drive liberals crazy!)
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To: Alter Kaker
Let's treat the NY Slimes with typical FR disdain, and ignore what is outside the quotes.
The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently.

“We have to find a new balance, otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.”

Puts things in a different light, doesn't it? Regardless, the pope is speaking of how best to address these issues pastorally. The Church's position regarding the nature of abortion and sodomy remains unchanged. Catholics may disagree with the pope's pastoral opinions.
18 posted on 09/19/2013 9:09:52 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: Alter Kaker

Wow. I am not a Catholic, I am a Lutheran (LCMS). However, I must say this: The reason the catholic (universal) church is talking so much about homosexuality etc. is not because we are obsessed, it is because we must defend against heresies.

When Arius proposed his idea of the Trinity, Athanasius and others “OBSESSED” about the nature of the Trinity. Same for the two natures of Christ.

If Christians are obsessed with anything, it is with preserving the truth and fighting against falsehood.

The Roman Catholics are not obsessed with homosexuality, abortion, and contraception: its opponents are. The Catholics are just defending against it—constantly, because they are being attacked constantly.

It’s the same for all churches that believe that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant Word of God. We aren’t obsessed. The world is. We are just refuting the world.

By the way, my browser spell check suggested I replace Athanasius with “euthanasia.” Not quite, spell checker, not quite.


19 posted on 09/19/2013 9:09:53 AM PDT by Conservaliberty (Everything is racist. Don't agree? That's because you're racist. /s)
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To: MichaelCorleone
All I hear is ‘social justice’ and ‘fairness’ to the (illegal) immigrant and redistribution of wealth and how the nation’s ills are caused by ‘fat cats’ on Wall St. while giving no consideration to the corruption in government.

I know those kinds of homilies exist but I have never heard a single one of them. YMMV. Starting to think we are really, really blessed with this little Latin Mass here.

20 posted on 09/19/2013 9:11:28 AM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: Alter Kaker
"Pope Francis,...said that the Roman Catholic church had grown “obsessed” with preaching about abortion...."

Well, he IS the Pope, after all - his word is infallible, so let's all just stop giving a darn about the slaughter of babies.
Let's talk about nice, happy things - like ice cream and puppies....

21 posted on 09/19/2013 9:13:17 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: steve86

“Starting to think we are really, really blessed with this little Latin Mass here.”

Yes you are.

For me to see one, I have to look it up on YouTube or tune into the local Catholic channel at the scheduled time. Nothing like it!


22 posted on 09/19/2013 9:14:14 AM PDT by MichaelCorleone (Jesus Christ is not a religion. He's the Truth.)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
“We have to find a new balance, otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.”

That sounds like Vatican II reform talk. Let's change it and ruin it. Let's make it appeal to mainstream culture. Let's modernize it.

23 posted on 09/19/2013 9:14:49 AM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: fwdude; All

Before we starting throwing rocks here (and trust me there is one in my hand), here’s the ACTUAL interview to compare and contrast:

http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview


24 posted on 09/19/2013 9:20:03 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Alter Kaker

They never talk about them... EVER!


25 posted on 09/19/2013 9:22:20 AM PDT by Viennacon
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To: jboot; Gamecock
There is no longer any safety in swimming the Tiber.

There's always Lake Geneva!

26 posted on 09/19/2013 9:22:43 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: Alter Kaker

weird


27 posted on 09/19/2013 9:24:28 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: Alter Kaker

geez... its been 6 months already?


28 posted on 09/19/2013 9:26:10 AM PDT by Mr. K (Lies, Damned Lies, Statistics, and then Democrat Talking Points.)
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To: Claud
No disputing this pope is a big hit with liberals and atheists and womyn priests. They are gushing. Best pope in centuries! Typical comments:

As a practicing Catholic, and a liberal (we do exist!) I am thrilled to hear everything Pope Francis has to say. This man is already a saint!


I was raised Orthodox Christian, now a pretty staunch atheist, but this guy...this guy gets it. We are luckier in the world for having a man like this use his position of power to preach LOVE and TOLERANCE. While I firmly reject the existence of God, if by some chance he does exist, this guy is absolutely his messenger.


The big tent has to include the ordination of women for those women who want to be priests. In the meantime, the Pope's words and actions are encouraging and interesting to follow.


29 posted on 09/19/2013 9:26:28 AM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: GeronL
weird

Exactly.

30 posted on 09/19/2013 9:32:10 AM PDT by Night Hides Not (The Tea Party was the earthquake, and Chick Fil A the tsunami...100's of aftershocks to come.)
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To: steve86

Every time this pope opens his mouth he puts his foot in it.
It’s well and good that he he can’t change the dogma of the church. He sounds to me exactly like Rick Warren or Joel
Osteen. Ground control to this pope, his job is to preach the word of God and safeguard the truth and it’s about damn time he understood that abortion is MURDER, queer “marriage” is against the Gospel. He needs to quit acting like just another ubber liberal Jesuit priest, who stick the middle finger up at the Church, and start acting like the head leader of the Catholic Church. I became a Catholic in 2008 because of the theology of the Church. Where all other faiths were caving in to the liberal agenda, the Catholic Chuch stood tall. Now this character comes along.
Give me Benedict any day of the week.


31 posted on 09/19/2013 9:33:06 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: Alex Murphy
There's always Lake Geneva!

Did Geneva even remain a strong center after 1600? From what I remember, swimming the Firth of Forth would probably be more accurate.

32 posted on 09/19/2013 9:33:40 AM PDT by Claud
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To: NKP_Vet
Every time this pope opens his mouth he puts his foot in it. It’s well and good that he he can’t change the dogma of the church. He sounds to me exactly like Rick Warren or Joel Osteen.

I believe the term is "shut up and kiss the ring".

33 posted on 09/19/2013 9:36:25 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: Alter Kaker

Since this IS the NYT, we’ll assume a lack of context for these quotes.


34 posted on 09/19/2013 9:36:49 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: G Larry
Since this IS the NYT, we’ll assume a lack of context for these quotes.

I read much of the interview at a different site. Pope Francis is all about "context", and IMO, he's all over the place in his views.

35 posted on 09/19/2013 9:40:30 AM PDT by Night Hides Not (The Tea Party was the earthquake, and Chick Fil A the tsunami...100's of aftershocks to come.)
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To: Alter Kaker
Homosexual Priests have cost the Catholic Church Millions of Dollars,and Millions of Parishioners but the Pope doesn't want to talk about it. Abortion is a sin against nature and God, but the Pope doesn't want to talk about it. Well Pope Francis, the first Homo that gets married in the Catholic Church with your blessing, the first woman made a Priest, and I will find a new place to worship. I will know then that God's Church has abandoned God.
36 posted on 09/19/2013 9:41:41 AM PDT by Venturer ( cowardice posturing as tolerance =political correctness)
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To: steve86; NKP_Vet

Can’t disagree.

Look, it happens. Take Honorius, who died with a good reputation and then got slapped by ecumenical councils for playing cute with Monothelitism:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07452b.htm


37 posted on 09/19/2013 9:43:40 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Alter Kaker

We’ve got problems, worse than we imagined.


38 posted on 09/19/2013 9:45:58 AM PDT by John W (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: Night Hides Not

and this is the same church on the same day:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3068486/posts


39 posted on 09/19/2013 9:47:10 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: Alter Kaker

Pope Francis, I am done with you. Enjoy your ‘new’ church.


40 posted on 09/19/2013 9:49:14 AM PDT by novemberslady
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To: Conservaliberty

Well said.


41 posted on 09/19/2013 9:55:13 AM PDT by impimp
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To: novemberslady

This is what happens when a Jesuit priest is made Pope. Jesuits have caused great harm to the Catholic Church by not promoting liberal causes. If this pope does not start acting like the leader of the Catholic Church, he will be replaced. Mark that down. At this time in history the Church needs a strong conservative pope who WILL TELL THE WORLD about the evils of ABORTION, AND QUEER “MARRIAGE”. Who in the hell does he think he is marginalizing the murder of unborn children and the systematic destruction of the institution of marriage, which is a Holy Sacrament of the Church that he is supposed to be leading.


42 posted on 09/19/2013 10:00:09 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: Venturer

Please, please everyone. Visit Ann Barnhardt’s blog. She is frequently addressing the disgrace of Pope Francis and pointing out the sober realities of where we are in history. Yet she hasn’t left the Church.
In a nutshell his election points to God’s cleansing action on a wayword people who will have to choose Christ and really know and live His teachings. We the Church Militant are entering into a time of battle unprecedented in history. God help us! (He will.)
See Barnhardt.biz


43 posted on 09/19/2013 10:02:57 AM PDT by Repent and Believe (Promote good. Tolerate the harmless. Let evil be crushed.)
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To: G Larry

“Since this IS the NYT, we’ll assume a lack of context for these quotes.”

Here’s the full interview, translated into English:

http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview


44 posted on 09/19/2013 10:22:47 AM PDT by GIdget2004
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To: Mr. K
My post from March 3, 2013 -

‘Church changing big time,’ says Cardinal Dolan
Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:40:31 PM · 11 of 41
Dr. Thorne to NYer

The next Pope will be the Catholic Obama. He will:

- claim he is all things to all people NOT YET
- be seen as a great uniter YUP
- be seen as a necessary change agent YUP
- elicit the kind of worship seen among Obama adorers. YUP

He will have a worldwide honeymoon of six months media adoration after which he will begin his real work of turning Catholicism into the religious equivalent of Progressivism. Then, he will:

- soften the church's stance on abortion YUP
- embrace homosexual marriage MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION
- endorse the redistribution of wealth YUP
- decry all military action YUP
- loudly proclaim ecumenism as the road to world peace. MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION

He will be a dragon who speaks like a lamb.

If you think the first six months have been interesting, just wait for the next six months.

45 posted on 09/19/2013 10:40:54 AM PDT by Dr. Thorne ("How long, O Lord, holy and true?" - Rev. 6:10)
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To: NKP_Vet
"Who in the hell does he think he is . . . "

He doesn't think, he feels.

Next week he may be talking about the need to preach against abortion more often. They elected a warm and fuzzy guy because the media whined about Benedict being too intellectual. That's all there is to the guy and he probably listens to his handlers than people realize.

JMHO

46 posted on 09/19/2013 10:41:58 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Alex Murphy

LOL, I’m already there.


47 posted on 09/19/2013 10:45:56 AM PDT by jboot (It can happen here because it IS happening here.)
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To: Psalm 73

CALM DOWN folks!!!

Read his entire message, not the NYT editing of individual sentences.

Jesus spoke to Mathew about love and mercy (prodigal son), not angrily saying DAMN YOU. Mercy comes with repentance...


48 posted on 09/19/2013 10:48:44 AM PDT by If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
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To: NKP_Vet

Clarification.

Jesuits have caused great harm to the Catholic Church by PROMOTING LIBERAL CAUSES.


49 posted on 09/19/2013 10:53:21 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: If You Want It Fixed - Fix It

It seems clear to me that certain posters only seek to criticize and demean anything from the Catholic Church, regardless of context or truth.

There are also some posters who only seek to criticize Pope Francis, for any number of reasons.

How about reading the interview, it is long, I know, to understand what the man says, and not some hack at the NY Times, CNN, etc.

Finally, if you heard the exact same homily every Sunday, such as “Fornication, abortion, sodomy, and divorce are bad,” wouldn’t you get a little tired of it? Wouldn’t you rather hear the Church welcomes divorcees? Please go to confession, either live celibately or regularize your marriage. Or how about, we all deal with sin, mortal sin. Jesus offers His infinite mercy to you. Admit your sin, be confirmed He can forgive you, and change your life.

There is no controversy in anything he said.


50 posted on 09/19/2013 10:55:21 AM PDT by SpirituTuo
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