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Pope Francisí comments on homosexuality in the Big Interview
WDTPRS ^ | 9/19/2013 | Fr John Zuhlsdorf

Posted on 09/19/2013 5:04:36 PM PDT by markomalley

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To: SkyPilot
Huh?

Where is this statement, "Let's not be naive, we're not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God" a heresy to God's Word, the Holy Bible?

Are you saying that the Bible supports homosexual "marriage"?

Because Cardinal Bergoglio said that homosexual marriage was a machination of the devil.

41 posted on 09/20/2013 3:43:46 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: SkyPilot
The real quote: If a person is gay and seeks the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge him?

If you're going to post cheesy jpegs, I'd think you could at least post the correct quote.

BTW, a little bit later, he said: “We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time.

42 posted on 09/20/2013 3:47:46 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: SkyPilot

But, of course, since you support homosexual “marriage”, I guess you wouldn’t want to understand what he actually says.


43 posted on 09/20/2013 3:48:31 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley

When did I ever say I support “homosexual marriage?”


44 posted on 09/20/2013 5:56:35 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

” When did I ever say I support “homosexual marriage?””

Since you called his opposition to “marriage equality” a heresy against the Scriptures, what other conclusion should one draw.


45 posted on 09/20/2013 5:59:05 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley

The pope DID say what I posted, on July 22, 2013 during an interview with reporters. The “context” you posted adds nothing to detract from his moral relativism, in fact, it only adds to the bitter stew he himself is cooking.


46 posted on 09/20/2013 6:00:48 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: markomalley
I can see why there is confusion - I posted the wrong picture. I meant to post the one below. The initial one showed his statement regarding a debate about legislation in Argentina to legalize homosexual marriage, which they did. Back then, he was against it. Now, he is not "judging" homosexuals.

He has refuted his own statements, and that is what I meant to convey. My fault for the confusion - sorry.

47 posted on 09/20/2013 6:08:30 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: plain talk
"Well said statement by the Pope. You don't believe in Free Will? God does not force anyone to do anything. They choose."

Perhaps this is the wishful thinking your organization holds. As with many other traditions it promotes, this view does not comport with the Scriptures.

Prov. 21:1 "The king's heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord; He turns it wherever He wishes.

Prov. 16:9 "The mind of man plans his way, But the Lord directs his steps.

There is nothing uncontrolled in the universe...

Prov. 16:33 "The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from the Lord.

Free will? Sorry. There are probably 100 more passages where free will is debunked. But, it requires one to read the text without the organizational glasses on. We have a God who really is God. Maybe the RCC should reconsider the god they worship...if they can.

48 posted on 09/20/2013 6:56:16 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: jodyel
"For those of you listening and hearing and who are genuinely interested, I invite you to PM me."

Very kind offer. Hopefully, God will allow someone to seek you out and visit.

49 posted on 09/20/2013 6:59:09 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Thanks.


50 posted on 09/20/2013 7:02:00 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: jodyel

**utterly deceived and blinded **

We are not deceived and blinded. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Have you ever attended a Catholic Mass? Almost the entire Mass is from the Bible.


51 posted on 09/20/2013 7:15:37 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: plain talk
"Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Thanks."

I suspect that your organization does not agree that "everyone is entitled to their opinion". That is one of the great tragedies of Rome. They dictate exactly what you must believe, exactly what you must do to be rescued, exactly what you must do with regard to them. Check Vatican II out. Only the brass knows what you must believe. But, even this is being managed by God.

52 posted on 09/20/2013 7:42:03 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: SkyPilot

Is a repentant homosexual able to be saved?


53 posted on 09/20/2013 7:43:17 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: SkyPilot

Follow up question: if a repentant homosexual is saved and his sins are forgiven by God, then is it appropriate for other Christians to judge him based upon past sins that God has already forgiven?

(N B: if your answer to the previous question was that he is beyond saving, then please disregard this question)


54 posted on 09/20/2013 7:47:04 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley
The Bible says that if someone truly repents and believes that Jesus Christ is Lord, and confesses to Him, then they will be saved. Mark 1:15, Acts 2:38, Romans 10:9, Acts 16:31, and others.

I do not believe that any is "beyond saving" for Jesus. The Bible also warns us to watch against wolves in sheep's clothing (Matthew 7:15), false teachers (2 Peter 2: 1-3), and those who would alter God's Word (Revelation 22:18-19).

55 posted on 09/20/2013 11:16:33 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: markomalley

I appreciate your systematic breakdown of Francis’ words. You have put forth a fair analysis of the words and what the mean or may mean.

Honestly, your analysis is better than Weigel’s commentary on the interview. The reason I say this, is that you take it on in full and Weigel uses a strawman argument in his critique of we who are distraught over this interview.

He accuses those who critiqued Pope Francis as “misrepresent(ing) Pope Francis as an advocate of doctrinal and moral change. This is not the case at all. My point is that we live in a cultural depravity, where the gay lifesyle and abortion are intensively and consistently rammed down our throats. We need a strong Christian voice to stand up to these constant bombardments.

More importantly to me as a father, with two children in Catholic school, I have to consider if my children are capable of comprehending the subtleties of this Papal strategy.

“Dad, is it now wrong to pray and speak out against abortions? Is the Church changing on these issues?”

It makes our jobs as parents more difficult. Especially, as we let our senior children embark on to college, where the cultural indoctrination is inescapable.

Anyway, I still have major reservations about this new tone and this Pope. And I do appreciate the more Christ-centered approach, which you would think our Protestant brothers would be slightly more welcoming of lol.

Thanks for your analysis it is appreciated.


56 posted on 09/20/2013 12:01:07 PM PDT by rbmillerjr (We have No Opposition to Obam a's Socialist Agenda:)
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To: SkyPilot
I do not believe that any is "beyond saving" for Jesus.

Good. Neither do I.

The Holy Father apparently agrees with the two of us:

If a person is gay and seeks the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge him?

57 posted on 09/20/2013 5:24:50 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: Salvation

Just because one can read or hear scripture, salavation, does not mean one can understand it.

It takes the Holy Spirit living inside a believer to give understanding and discernment.

God bless,
jodyel


58 posted on 09/20/2013 8:23:27 PM PDT by jodyel
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To: Dutchboy88

I hope so, dutchboy...because that is all I really want...is for them to know the spectacular relationship with the Savior without the machinations of fallen men surrounding it.


59 posted on 09/20/2013 8:28:35 PM PDT by jodyel
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To: jodyel

Did you read the entire interview?

http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview
Complete text


60 posted on 09/20/2013 8:30:43 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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