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Church Fathers and Church Music
Catholic World Report ^ | 9/12/13 | Christopher B. Warner

Posted on 09/22/2013 6:09:00 AM PDT by marshmallow

The Fathers of the Church can help us refine our liturgical worship after 50 years of subjection to sentimental pop music.

At the beginning of this 50th anniversary year of Vatican II, Benedict XVI called for a renewed, authentic reading and implementation of the council documents. After suffering through many decades of vulgar, saccharine Church music, it is encouraging to note a rise of musicians who are serious about authentic reform of sacred worship. The recent Sacred Liturgy Conference in Rome was a great success, and there is a spirit of joyful, liturgical rejuvenation among the youth. Today’s composers are considering many facets of sacred music theory and history as they strive for the renewal of theocentric orthodoxy in liturgical worship. A brief look at the last 50 years in light of the early Church Fathers’ teachings provides a surprisingly relevant breath of fresh air.

Most Catholics are all too familiar with the folk music “reforms” to liturgical music of the 1970s and ’80s. Adopting secular music and the spirit of the age, untutored youth began setting music to pop-style rhythms and melodies, usually with acoustic guitar accompaniment. This style of liturgical music became immensely popular, spread rapidly, and was taken up by prolific composers such as Marty Haugen and David Haas. Michael Matheson Miller of the Acton Institute refers to this liturgical Candyland as the “suburban rite.” The problem with this music, noted by more than one critic, is that it is filled with fuzzy doctrine and the spirit of the sexual revolution: “peace,” “love,” and bad style.

On the other hand, many remember the Grammy-award winning CD Chant, which hit the music market in 1994 and became an overnight sensation. Chant, sung by the Benedictine monks of Santo Domingo de Silos, appealed to traditional Christians and New-Age listeners alike.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicworldreport.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholicism; christianity; church; churchfathers; churchmusic; fathers; music; noise

1 posted on 09/22/2013 6:09:00 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

Traditional music enthusiasts in the Protestant world are losing the music wars as electric guitars and drums drive organs and choirs out of churches and “praise” music replaces traditional hymns and gospel songs.


2 posted on 09/22/2013 6:27:17 AM PDT by Fiji Hill (n)
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To: marshmallow

...sentimental pop music.


I like to parse words in controversial comments.

So, what does “sentimental” mean? And does the author know that “pop” is short for popular? And in their day, hymns were popular.

Hymns are revered because they are old. You know, kinda like old Dodge Chargers. But many of them suck, musically. And I am so tired of a miss translated verse being used over and over in so many of the hymns in my church. It is all the songs that use the word “mansion”.

Fact is, hymns are what are sentimental. People like them because they remind them of their youth in church. They are “the traditions of man”.

I believe that in the beginning organs were met with the same disdain as guitars are now. People just don’t like cultures other than their own.

Don’t get me wrong. A LOT of the new “pop” music in churches is pretty bad and not scriptural. And the repetitiveness of some songs can get annoying. But have you checked out the repetitiveness of a lot of hymns.

BTW, my current church uses only hymnals for worship service. Some of them have great and Christian lyrics. I’d like to use the words to create a completely new song.


3 posted on 09/22/2013 6:33:22 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: marshmallow

How about the more recent time period when someone tried to erase male references from the music, maybe because it was thought to be “sexist”? The old standard carol Good Christian Men Rejoice became Good Christian Friends Rejoice, the morphed into Good Christians All Rejoice. I was concerned that the Lord’s Prayer might become “Our Parent which art in Heaven”...


4 posted on 09/22/2013 6:33:25 AM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed & water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: Fiji Hill

Traditional music enthusiasts in the Protestant world are losing the music wars as electric guitars and drums drive organs and choirs out of churches and “praise” music replaces traditional hymns and gospel songs.


It’s really just a cultural thing. A lot of the new songs have strong and scriptural lyrics and some don’t. The same is true of hymns. The only difference is the instruments used and the “feel” of the music. And that is purely cultural. God is not a respecter of cultures, other then where actual sin is involved. And playing a guitar or beating a drum in a song is not a sin. At least I can find no scripture identifying it as such.


5 posted on 09/22/2013 6:36:47 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: JimRed

How about the more recent time period when someone tried to erase male references from the music, maybe because it was thought to be “sexist”? The old standard carol Good Christian Men Rejoice became Good Christian Friends Rejoice, the morphed into Good Christians All Rejoice. I was concerned that the Lord’s Prayer might become “Our Parent which art in Heaven”...


I have no problem with people rewording songs that were written by men. I have a big problem with people rewording the word of God. I see it as two completely different things. On one I am neutral. On the other, I consider it blasphemy.


6 posted on 09/22/2013 6:38:19 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: marshmallow
There was a lot of bad Catholic hymnody in the pre-Vatican II era. Treakly and lugubrious late Victorian hymns with simple organ accompaniment can still be heard out in the hinterlands. (Gotta love that vibrato!) I think in some corners it's part and parcel with the revived Latin Mass. To it's credit, it doesn't cause me to leave.

At the other extreme, I remember hearing a group of very old Italian ladies singing in the back of church sounding like a bag of cats thrown into a river. It resembled music only in the academic sense. It would be many years until I heard a similar sound on a recording by Alan Lomax of traditional a capella Italian folk music. I learned then that I had heard the voice of a world that was already passing.

7 posted on 09/22/2013 6:59:32 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: cuban leaf
It’s really just a cultural thing. A lot of the new songs have strong and scriptural lyrics and some don’t. The same is true of hymns. The only difference is the instruments used and the “feel” of the music. And that is purely cultural. God is not a respecter of cultures, other then where actual sin is involved. And playing a guitar or beating a drum in a song is not a sin. At least I can find no scripture identifying it as such.

All true. However, no "praise" band can properly capture the contemplative or introspective mood of gospel tunes such as It Is Well With My Soul or Be Still, My Soul in the way that traditional choirs and instrumentation can.

8 posted on 09/22/2013 7:59:37 AM PDT by Fiji Hill (n)
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To: cuban leaf
Hymns are revered because they are old. You know, kinda like old Dodge Chargers. But many of them suck, musically. And I am so tired of a miss translated (sic) verse being used over and over in so many of the hymns in my church. It is all the songs that use the word “mansion”.

Fact is, hymns are what are sentimental. People like them because they remind them of their youth in church. They are “the traditions of man”.

Applesauce!

Hymns stand the test of time for various reasons--some because they capture moods such as praise, sorrow, joy or hope, some because they offer commentary on Bible verses, theological themes, etc. And many have survived because they are, indeed, musically appealing.

9 posted on 09/22/2013 8:11:37 AM PDT by Fiji Hill (n)
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To: Fiji Hill

***and “praise” music replaces traditional hymns and gospel songs***

I hate praise music in our church! Sounds like moaning and groaning. It gets stuck in your head and you can’t get it out.

I like the old time music! I found several old records from THE CHUCK WAGON GANG, at a second hand store, yesterday (50 cents each!). now, THAT is the music I like!

My sister-in-law cleaned out an old house over in Oklahoma several years ago. She found a box of old 78 RPM gospel records hid in the attic. I fired up my player and we enjoyed the old time music!

Thn there is the problem of not using books as the words are flashed on a big screen. The sound operator can’t seem to get the proper verse on the screen so the music director is singing verse 2, and we are looking at verse 3 on the screen.


10 posted on 09/22/2013 8:18:09 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: cuban leaf
And playing a guitar or beating a drum in a song is not a sin. At least I can find no scripture identifying it as such.

As far as I'm concerned, guitars are for singing cowboys and drums are for parades and halftime shows.

11 posted on 09/22/2013 8:19:30 AM PDT by Taft in '52
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To: Fiji Hill

Let’s see you pack a pipe organ into the back hills of El Salvador.


12 posted on 09/22/2013 8:23:21 AM PDT by Walmartian (I'm their leader. Which way did they go?)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

The Chuckwagon Gang—a great group!


13 posted on 09/22/2013 8:27:00 AM PDT by Fiji Hill (n)
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To: marshmallow

Fanny Crosby (March 24, 1820 – February 12, 1915) wrote over 8,000 hymns and gospel songs. Only about bout 20 of these are still widely used. Given time to choose the best .25% of the songs written today you would have a comparable list of quality songs.

Some of these songs are still recorded by today’s artist.

“All the Way My Savior Leads Me”
“Blessed Assurance”
“The Bright Forever”
“He Hideth My Soul”
“More Like Jesus”
“I Am Thine, O Lord (Draw Me Nearer)”
“Jesus Is Tenderly Calling You Home (Jesus is Calling)”
“My Savior First of All”
“Near the Cross”
“Pass Me Not, O Gentle Saviour”
“Praise Him! Praise Him! Jesus, Our Blessed Redeemer!”
“Redeemed, How I Love to Proclaim It!”
“Rescue the Perishing”
“Safe in the Arms of Jesus”
“Savior, More Than Life to Me”
“Take the World, But Give Me Jesus”
“Tell Me the Story of Jesus”
“To God Be the Glory”


14 posted on 09/22/2013 8:34:25 AM PDT by ThomasThomas ("We make a living by what we get. We make a life by what we give.")
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To: cuban leaf

**electric guitars and drums drive organs and choirs out of churches and “praise” music**

Catholics don’t go to church to be entertained. They go to church to worship.


15 posted on 09/22/2013 8:35:20 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: JimRed
How about the more recent time period when someone tried to erase male references from the music, maybe because it was thought to be “sexist”? The old standard carol Good Christian Men Rejoice became Good Christian Friends Rejoice, the morphed into Good Christians All Rejoice. I was concerned that the Lord’s Prayer might become “Our Parent which art in Heaven”...

There's some of that in our Methodist hymnal. For example, "God of Our Fathers" is now "God of the Ages."

A number of great hymns, such as "From Greenland's Icy Mountains," which calls for bringing the Gospel to heathen cultures, "Hold the Fort," inspired by the Battle of Allatoona in 1864, or even "Eternal Father, Strong to Save," the Navy hymn, are now considered politically incorrect and have vanished from many contemporary hymnals.

16 posted on 09/22/2013 8:35:23 AM PDT by Fiji Hill (n)
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To: All

Church Fathers and Church Music

September 12, 2013

The Fathers of the Church can help us refine our liturgical worship after 50 years of subjection to sentimental pop music.

Christopher B. Warner

At the beginning of this 50th anniversary year of Vatican II, Benedict XVI called for a renewed, authentic reading and implementation of the council documents. After suffering through many decades of vulgar, saccharine Church music, it is encouraging to note a rise of musicians who are serious about authentic reform of sacred worship. The recent Sacred Liturgy Conference in Rome was a great success, and there is a spirit of joyful, liturgical rejuvenation among the youth. Today’s composers are considering many facets of sacred music theory and history as they strive for the renewal of theocentric orthodoxy in liturgical worship. A brief look at the last 50 years in light of the early Church Fathers’ teachings provides a surprisingly relevant breath of fresh air.

Most Catholics are all too familiar with the folk music “reforms” to liturgical music of the 1970s and ’80s. Adopting secular music and the spirit of the age, untutored youth began setting music to pop-style rhythms and melodies, usually with acoustic guitar accompaniment. This style of liturgical music became immensely popular, spread rapidly, and was taken up by prolific composers such as Marty Haugen and David Haas. Michael Matheson Miller of the Acton Institute refers to this liturgical Candyland as the “suburban rite.” The problem with this music, noted by more than one critic, is that it is filled with fuzzy doctrine and the spirit of the sexual revolution: “peace,” “love,” and bad style.

 

On the other hand, many remember the Grammy-award winning CD Chant, which hit the music market in 1994 and became an overnight sensation. Chant, sung by the Benedictine monks of Santo Domingo de Silos, appealed to traditional Christians and New-Age listeners alike. It was considered the perfect antidote to a stressful, workaholic world exacerbated by paltry pop music. The perennial qualities of plainchant became self-evident to the listener of these recordings. But for the monks, plainchant was more than a musical expression that they appreciated and polished like curators of a museum; it was essential to their life of prayer. The monks explained in the jewel-case insert for Chant how they had become physically ill, suffering fatigue and exhaustion, while experimenting with post-Vatican II music for the Divine Office. The sentimental emotion of pop and folk melodies was not sustainable over a seven-hour worship day.

Sacrosanctum Concilium, the Second Vatican Council’s Dogmatic Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, noted that, in addition to recent pontiffs, the early Fathers of the Church also illuminate the function of sacred music. A deeper reading of the Fathers, beloved by Pope Emeritus Benedict, can assist us in liturgical renewal.

St. Basil the Great and charismatic music

Far from being distant and “out of touch,” the words of the Fathers are quite down-to-earth and often humorous. St. Basil the Great, for example, wrote that sacred music must both appeal to the people and trick them into worshipping God:

For when the Holy Spirit saw that mankind was ill-inclined toward virtue and that we were heedless of the righteous life because of our inclination to pleasure, what did he do? He blended the delight of melody with doctrine in order that, through the pleasantness and softness of the sound, we might unawares receive what was useful in the words according to the practice of wise physicians who, when they give the more bitter drafts to the sick, often smear the rim of the cup with honey. For this purpose, these harmonious melodies of the psalms have been designed for us, that those who are of boyish age or wholly youthful in their character, while in appearance they sing, may in reality be educating their souls.

In other words, music must be joyful and beautiful so that people will learn their Faith and want to come and worship God in church. Conversely, St. John Maximovitch said, “The psalms and the hymns that simply gratify the ear but do not inspire somebody to pray are not acceptable.” In fact, that is the main point, as St. Basil goes on to say that liturgical music must always be a work of prayer and worship because liturgy is an imitation of heavenly glory and praise.

One controversial genre that seems to fit Basil’s category of “doctrine disguised for the youth” is charismatic worship music. Orthodox in its theology, this music is certainly focused on the worship of God. Whereas “suburban rite” music tends to focus on holding hands in church and singing “a new church into being,” charismatic music is oriented toward praise and worship. The most legitimate critique of charismatic music seems to be that while it is effective in luring youth out of the rock music culture into the culture of life, it also seems to be an adolescent response to God that is not sustainable, but this obstacle to spiritual growth is surmountable. It is common experience that as serious Christians mature they develop a natural appetite for plainchant and sacred polyphony.

Let us, however, be clear that the Fathers were not friendly to popular music and secular culture. The guardians of early Christianity were very particular about both the content and style of sacred music because they lived in a secular culture hostile to Christian morals. Church music was primarily the product of Jewish synagogue worship which prayerfully developed with Christian usage into practices that were fitting for liturgical worship.

What the Church Fathers said about pop music

The Greek philosophers set the foundation for Christian music theory. Plato and Aristotle recognized that all music has a distinctly moral character. In Aristotle’s theory, music imitates the states of the soul—anger, gentleness, temperance, etc. He taught that good music has a good effect on man’s character, while bad music has a bad effect. The second-century Greek musicologists Cleonides and Aristides Quintilianus recognized that certain music possessed a soothing character which was particularly fitting for hymns and praise, and that it led the soul to harmony with God.

On the other hand, early Christian writers consistently attacked pagan, instrumental music (ancient pop music) because of its inseparable connection to pagan ceremony and lewd customs. John Chrysostom called musical instruments, dancing, and obscene songs “the devil’s garbage.” The Fathers were particularly concerned with the sexual immorality which accompanied the popular music scene of the early centuries A.D. From their writings one gets a glimpse of vulgar culture during this time, not unlike our post-modern culture today. The three most frequently referenced venues of crass pagan music criticized by the Fathers were the theater, wedding receptions, and drinking parties.

The theater was full of cultic pagan references and characters, but the primary fault of the theater was its sexually offensive content. Wedding receptions were occasions for singing coarse marriage songs and carousing. A common feature of late-night banquet parties was the young female lyre player who played alluring music which inevitably led to sexual sin among the participants. Tatian (c.180 A.D.) was one of the first to write a polemic against such immodesty. In his letter to a Greek acquaintance he refers to the archetype of such a musician: “And this Sappho is a lewd, lovesick female who sins to her own licentiousness, whereas all our women are chaste, and the maidens at their distaffs sing of godly things more earnestly than that girl of yours.” Pseudo-Basil and his contemporaries drew a similar connection between seductive music, drinking parties, and sexual license.

Polemics like this raise the question of whether or not popular styles of music are an appropriate accompaniment to prayer in the liturgy. On a certain level, pop styles may appeal to many people, but are they naturally oriented toward God? The Fathers deemed these music styles “guilty” by association and our own post-modern pop is hardly better. Folk music is by definition focused on the affairs of people, while rock music quite effectively arouses erotic passions. As Elvis Presley once said, “The beat of rock n’ roll is sex”—not exactly appropriate for divine liturgy. Yet unfortunately, not all Christian composers have successfully avoided the mistake of incorporating intrusive, base, pop music styles into liturgical prayer.

Sacramentum Caritatis, ars musica, and the “New Song”

As Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI wrote in his letter Sacramentum Caritatis (2007), “The introduction of musical genres which fail to respect the meaning of the liturgy should be avoided” (42). Ecclesial music composers of the future will safeguard orthodox worship through a thorough study of and fidelity to the ancient traditions of music that have organically and prayerfully developed under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

As much as they despised popular Greek music, the Fathers simultaneously acknowledged classical music as an important academic discipline. Pythagoras, Plato, and Aristotle had worked out a scheme for education which became solidified by Martianus Capella (fifth century). The seven classical liberal arts included the study of music (ars musica). Ars musica was a mathematical discipline that was measurable. Music theory gave structure to this art: the philosophy of mathematical function as well as character formation. The Church wholeheartedly adopted this plan of education.

As in earlier times, secular music theory can continue to help Christians better understand their own music tradition and articulate it to a contemporary audience. In a culture in which classical training in music is often no longer valued, contemporary Christians would do well to revive ars musica as a discipline of our own educational tradition. The future of authentic Christian worship lies in the legitimate preservation and interpretation of its musical traditions passed on from generation to generation.

St. Clement of Alexandria was one who saw great value in gleaning whatever is good, true, or useful from the secular, Greek intellectual tradition. Clement was a proponent of integrating Greek philosophy and musical study into Christian catechesis, yet he believed that Christians must carefully select ideas and examples which are in tune with Christian truth: “He who culls what is necessary [from Greek studies] for the benefit of the catechumens… need not abstain from the love of learning... But by no means ought he to linger over these, except in so far as there is benefit from them, so that having taken this and secured it he can return homewards to the true philosophy.”

A theme in Clement of Alexandria’s work, Protrepticus, is that Christ, the “New Song,” orders the music of the cosmos according to a new harmony. Clement tells us that the enemies of this new harmony are those pagan musicians who are “deceivers, corrupting human life under the pretext of music, possessed by a kind of artful sorcery for purposes of destruction, outrageous in celebrating their orgies, deifying misfortune, the first to lead men by the hand to idols… and by means of their songs and incantations to subject to the most dire servitude the noble freedom of those who lived as citizens under heaven.” Christ, on the other hand, has brought new order to the universe by becoming man: “The Lord made man a beautiful instrument after his own image; certainly [Christ] is himself an all harmonious instrument of God, well-tuned and holy, the transcendental wisdom, the heavenly Word…”

Toward a renewal of harmonious worship

In the following passage Clement synthesizes the above teachings of the Fathers by making a beautiful distinction between well-ordered and disordered music: “Now temperate harmonies are to be admitted, but the pliant harmonies are to be driven as far as possible from our robust minds. These, through their sinuous strains, instruct one in weakness and lead to ribaldry, but the grave and temperate melodies bid farewell to the arrogance of drunkenness. Chromatic harmonies, then, are to be left to ‘colorless’ carousals and to the florid and meretricious music.”

Clement makes clear that there is more to sacred music than sacred lyrics. The melodies and harmonies themselves are either conducive to worship or not. According to this criterion, it seems clear that most pop music is not conducive to liturgical worship. On the other hand, we know from music history that some popular music melodies of ancient times were adapted to fit sacred lyrics—a tradition that has persisted up until the modern day. By the end of the fourth century, pagan hymn music was being “baptized” and integrated into ecclesial prayers. One example of this is a pagan hymn called the “Nemesis Hymn of Mesomedes” (c. 130 A.D.) which was incorporated into a Kyrie in Gregorian tone seven. Yet, there was something unique, glorious, and inspiring about that melody that was capable of lending itself to worship. The Irish folk tune that accompanies “Be Thou My Vision” is a modern example of a well-ordered adaptation.

Sacrosanctum Concilium gave clear guidelines for composers of new sacred music. It affirmed that Christian countries which share the great body of sacred music, with roots in the early Church, are not locked into a static canon of liturgical music. The sacred music tradition is a living icon of Christ who is ever ancient, ever new:

“Composers, filled with the Christian spirit, should feel that their vocation is to cultivate sacred music and increase its store of treasures. Let them produce compositions which have the qualities proper to genuine sacred music…The texts intended to be sung must always be in conformity with Catholic doctrine…”

Benedict’s call for liturgical renewal is timely and there are young musicians in the Church who are eagerly preparing themselves to answer this vocational call. The teachings of the Fathers offer much-needed inspiration and direction. Threats to the post-modern Church are very similar to those of the third century: anti-Christian sentiment, secularism, and sexual licentiousness. Sacrosanctum Concilium and Sacramentum Caritatis clearly state that the way forward for the development of Christian music must include a dedicated study of traditional Church music as well as a sustained effort to teach this music to the faithful for liturgical worship. At the same time, new Church music must be composed—not by ill-formed neophytes with guitars—but by mature, prayerful, classically trained musicians who have been mentored in plainchant and sacred polyphony and are living the full sacramental life of the Church. Certainly, it would behoove Christian music composers to pay close attention to the warnings and encouragements of the early Fathers, who also lived in a secular pagan society. Their wisdom, far from being irrelevant, is surprisingly germane.


17 posted on 09/22/2013 8:54:01 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: marshmallow

Give us t4raditional music and Gregorian chant, please!


18 posted on 09/22/2013 9:10:41 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
t4raditional tradtional
19 posted on 09/22/2013 9:11:39 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Walmartian
Let’s see you pack a pipe organ into the back hills of El Salvador.

How about a reed or pump organ? In an environment with no electricity, it would work where an electric guitar would not.

20 posted on 09/22/2013 12:39:00 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (n)
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To: cuban leaf

“God is not a respecter of cultures”

Have you read the Old Testament? However it is certainly true that culture influence has changed Church music. Guitar music and drums make for simple, mechanical and limited music which is in vogue today among the younger generation.


21 posted on 09/22/2013 1:00:32 PM PDT by Rock N Jones
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To: Fiji Hill

Those huts with dirt floors have electricity before they have running water. It’s usually an extension cord hanging out of the dwelling connected to a small meter (to watch soccer).


22 posted on 09/22/2013 3:45:32 PM PDT by Walmartian (I'm their leader. Which way did they go?)
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To: Fiji Hill

However, no “praise” band can properly capture the contemplative or introspective mood of gospel tunes such as It Is Well With My Soul or Be Still, My Soul in the way that traditional choirs and instrumentation can.


I am not aware of every single praise band song and rendition, so I can’t say that is true or not. But it does bring up the point that there are good songs and bad songs from all eras. It’s important to not compare the best songs of one era to the worst of another.

And what song has ever beaten “Amazing Grace”? ;-)

BTW, this is an interesting version of It Is Well. My favorite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSPJAThyCe8

You don’t notice at first, but she is singing the song straight.


23 posted on 09/22/2013 3:51:56 PM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Salvation

“Catholics don’t go to church to be entertained. They go to church to worship.”

Praise music reaches and inspires so many people who attend church services, which is good for Christianity. Those who sing along with them in church are performing an act of worship.


24 posted on 09/22/2013 4:18:55 PM PDT by Vision Thing (Instead of seeking the presidency, obama should have sought psychotherapy.)
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To: Salvation
Catholics don’t go to church to be entertained. They go to church to worship.

**************************

Amen.

25 posted on 09/22/2013 4:24:26 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Vision Thing

Amen.

At the recent confirmation that took place at my parish, one of the songs of praise at that worship service went by the title of “Holy Spirit.” That is a praise song.


26 posted on 09/24/2013 3:51:29 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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