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Pope Francis, the radical in the Vatican
The Washington Post ^ | 9/24/13 | Kathleen Parker

Posted on 09/25/2013 6:33:28 AM PDT by shego

Pope Francis continues to delight and surprise as he pursues his radical pilgrimage across the global psyche--inspiring with his humility while also sending shock waves with his subversive spirit.

Yes, make no mistake, this humble man from Argentina who describes himself first as a sinner and prefers simplicity to the opulence afforded by his station is, like Jesus Christ himself, a radical.

He washes the feet of the poor while eschewing the ruby papal slippers for his own holy feet. He lives in humble quarters among colleagues rather than in the isolation of the Vatican suites where his predecessors have slept. He immerses himself in humanity while urging a greater pastoral role for the church and a de-emphasis on the harsh judgments of institutional authority.

In a world where greed and pride hold hands in the dark, Francis appears like a brilliant apparition of--say it, brother--hope and change....

In a recent interview for the Jesuit publication America, the Vicar of Christ implored the church to not overemphasize the issues that social conservatives hold so dear. He didn't go so far as to suggest that the church change its core beliefs on subjects such as abortion and traditional marriage, but he urged a reordering of priorities and a less harsh approach. The hungry need food before they can hear a lecture about nutrition.

More love, less judgment is the seed he is planting, a worthy bumper sticker these days. In a judgmental era that sometimes rivals darker ages, Francis's words tumble into the human conversation like an uninvited guest. This humble, radiant man doesn't sprinkle rose petals and platitudes to amuse and beguile. He drops "daisy cutters" of truth and social justice smack into the punch bowl.

And all the while, he smiles....

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; pope; popefrancis; vatican

1 posted on 09/25/2013 6:33:28 AM PDT by shego
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To: shego

The Post is sooooo predictable (simpletons always are).

They love the Pope when he says things aligned with their “thinking”.

Just wait until he says something contrary.

Wonder what journalists and politicians would do had God not created journalism and politics as a shelter for those who could create nothing?


2 posted on 09/25/2013 6:39:20 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: shego
I'm going to be honest with you, this Pope is confusing me. He keeps saying things that make me go "huh, what?" and then the newspapers are all running with it saying things like "Ah hah! Pope supports abortion and women priests and gay marriage!" Then we hear the next day "no, he didn't mean that. The Pope fully embraces Church teaching on these matters." Oh, okay. Whew.

Then it all happens again a week later.

3 posted on 09/25/2013 6:45:42 AM PDT by pepsi_junkie (Who is John Galt?)
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To: Da Coyote
“Just wait until he says something contrary.”

Pope Francis says things that disagree with with the liberals every day. They agree on almost nothing.

The MSM are using their lies to transform Pope Francis into a weapon to attack his predecessors (particularly John Paul II) and faithful Catholics.

4 posted on 09/25/2013 6:48:05 AM PDT by detective
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To: pepsi_junkie

Don’t feel like the Lone Ranger.

He is confusing most of us.

The one thing I do know is that if he is praised by the WaPo he should maybe rethink what he is doing.


5 posted on 09/25/2013 6:49:49 AM PDT by Venturer ( cowardice posturing as tolerance =political correctness)
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To: pepsi_junkie

It’s not that he didn’t mean that. It’s that he didn’t *say* that. They say that he said that because that’s what hey what him to say. They’re inferring things from one or two sentences that are obviously wrong if you read more of what he said. The Pope is NOT going to suddenly support abortion, gay marriage or women priests. Libs will try to infer that whenever they can just to rile rank and file Catholics. They’ll ignore it when they find out they’re wrong.


6 posted on 09/25/2013 6:53:41 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (Rome didn't fall in a day, either.)
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To: shego

As a Lutheran, I feel a close connection to the Catholic Church. Though we have departed from the papacy and many other theological points, we still have a close tie with our Roman Catholic brethren—after all, it is the church that gave us birth, so to speak.

Catholics are close allies of LCMS Lutherans because they champion many of the same socially conservative issues that we do a.

However, I must point out that Luther rejected the power and primacy of the Pope specifically because the papal office may abuse its position as “the Vicar of Christ” and lead hundreds of thousands astray from the teachings of the Bible. Indulgences seem pretty mild compared to making controversial statements that can bring the authority of Scripture into question.

Please understand that I am not here to proselytize Lutheran teachings. I am hoping to add to dialogue from a non-Catholic perspective.

Of course, I also get that the liberal media want to think the Pope is on their side now. I appreciate and understand the confusion among faithful Catholics.

I fear, however, if the Roman Catholic Church ever caves on issues like abortion, homosexuality, and ultimately, Scriptural authority, that the persecution of conservative protestants (and Catholics) will truly escalate into something uglier. After all, if the largest church body in the WORLD is on the liberal agenda’s side...you get the idea.

I am not saying that this will come to pass. But I pray fervently for my Catholic brothers and sisters, that if the time comes, they will reject any teachings of the Pope that contradict Scripture.

I worry a little about Francis—I think he is trying too hard to be conservative without being conservative. It seems like it won’t end well for him or the thousands of people who trust their Pope to be faithful to the faith of the Apostles.

Just some thoughts.


7 posted on 09/25/2013 7:07:42 AM PDT by Conservaliberty (Everything is racist. Don't agree? That's because you're racist. /s)
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To: pepsi_junkie; Venturer

Why do you think the Pope said any of the things the newspapers are breathlessly gushing over? He didn’t say that abortion and homosexuality are ok; he simply said, essentially, that we don’t lead with negatives in evangelization. We all know these things are already considered sins by the Church and we don’t have to reinvent the wheel. He said in the very same interview that he was a son of the Church and accepted everything that the Church teaches.

The press has a vested interest in trying to twist his words, and there’s virtually nothing that he can say that they couldn’t find a way to twist. BXVI didn’t give many interviews, but when he did, remember the time the reporters on the plane announced that he was ok with condoms (because they picked some words out of a complicated moral example he was giving them).

They want to make it look, no matter what, like he agrees with them and they also want to indirectly attack BXVI. They actually liked JPII because he never enforced anything and tolerated a lot of unfortunate things, but BXVI was a real target of the press and their hatred of him is sort of religious equivalent of GW Bush and the Dem party.

You are aware that yesterday, the Vatican directly laicized and excommunicated two “dissident” gay-advocacy priests in various parts of the world, after their bishops had failed to act. And that Cdl. Burke announced that Nancy Pelosi meets the conditions to be denied communion (that is, excommunicated) until she repents and publicly acknowledges her error. I wouldn’t be surprise if Cordileone, supposedly her bishop, carries this out. None of these things would happen without the approval of the Pope.

But I bet you’ll see almost no reporting on these things in the mainstream press.


8 posted on 09/25/2013 7:18:12 AM PDT by livius
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To: Tanniker Smith
It’s not that he didn’t mean that. It’s that he didn’t *say* that. They say that he said that because that’s what hey what him to say.

"They" want every Pope to say stuff like that. They wanted Benedict to say it, they wanted John Paul II to say it. Yet neither ever said anything that could remotely be interpreted as liberalizing the church. There was no way to spin anything either man said in such a way. Yet the things Francis says are routinely reported that way.

At the very best he is a traditionalist who is not particularly articulate as apparently his message is misunderstood by almost everyone all the time. At the very worst he's a liberation theology wolf in sheep's clothing. Reality is it's probably a little of both, frankly. My guess so far is that he's left of center, more liberal than I'd like and he's not very articulate so his small steps to the left look like giant leaps because of poor word choices. But I'm not sure yet.

9 posted on 09/25/2013 7:36:11 AM PDT by pepsi_junkie (Who is John Galt?)
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To: livius
Why do you think the Pope said any of the things the newspapers are breathlessly gushing over? He didn’t say that abortion and homosexuality are ok; he simply said, essentially, that we don’t lead with negatives in evangelization.

I read what he said. When a Pope says we focus too much on a specific issue, it implies he thinks that issue isn't particularly serious. If abortion = baby killing how can you say it's an issue that we focus on too much? If you think it's a gray area then okay, I see that. So is that how Francis sees it?

You are aware that yesterday, the Vatican directly laicized and excommunicated two “dissident” gay-advocacy priests in various parts of the world, after their bishops had failed to act.

The one I'm familiar with was a priest who wasn't just advocating gay marriage, he desecrated the Eucharist and fed it to animals. Even marxist Father Pflaeger in Chicago won't go that far. And even if Francis is a liberation theologist himself I think he does believe in the holiness of the Eucharist so I don't read any pro or con sentiment about homosexuality in these events.

10 posted on 09/25/2013 7:45:21 AM PDT by pepsi_junkie (Who is John Galt?)
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To: pepsi_junkie
When a Pope says we focus too much on a specific issue, it implies he thinks that issue isn't particularly serious

No, you're inferring it. A more likely interpretation is a that if we're spending, say, 90% of the time talking about three issues! then we're not spending a lot of time on anything else. Not obsessing is not he same as not important.

11 posted on 09/25/2013 8:17:44 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (Rome didn't fall in a day, either.)
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To: Tanniker Smith
No, you're inferring it. A more likely interpretation is a that if we're spending, say, 90% of the time talking about three issues! then we're not spending a lot of time on anything else. Not obsessing is not he same as not important.

Okay, I see your point, expand the conversation from those core issues to other important issues. Great. However in the case of Francis it appears this means talking about welcoming in muslims gays and atheists, advocating for unlimited immigration, and talking a lot about poverty. This appears to make him a modern Democrat. And this leaves me scratching my head.

I envy you the certainty you have in the Pontiff and his stewardship of the Church. Unfortunately I just can't get my arms around Francis' vision. I hope you are right about him.

12 posted on 09/25/2013 8:53:12 AM PDT by pepsi_junkie (Who is John Galt?)
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To: Tanniker Smith
The key point His Holiness is making (when you go to what he actually said rather than what is reported) is that important issues have been neglected by the Church for too long, and that priorities need to be adjusted accordingly.

Pope Francis puts a high priority on "social justice" -- not in the Marxist eat-the-rich distortion of that concept, but in the traditional framework of restraining the tendency of the wealthy and powerful to game the system and cheat everybody else out of that portion of the economy's wealth they have legitimately earned.

13 posted on 09/25/2013 9:04:57 AM PDT by shego
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To: shego

Oh, go away, Kathleen. You jumped the shark when you appeared on TV with the ghastly Client 9, demonstrating that you would do absolutely anything for a man’s attention.


14 posted on 09/25/2013 9:51:48 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Prioritize!)
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To: Conservaliberty

“I fear, however, if the Roman Catholic Church ever caves on issues like abortion, homosexuality...

I don’t think it is too likely. I don’t think any group has caved on those issues without first accepting things like female clergy/pastors.

Freegards


15 posted on 09/25/2013 10:17:35 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Ransomed

Which is an excellent reason not to accept female clergy/pastors.


16 posted on 09/25/2013 10:19:31 AM PDT by Conservaliberty (Everything is racist. Don't agree? That's because you're racist. /s)
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To: Conservaliberty

Yeah, it’s pretty much a solid litmus test isn’t it? Maybe the only exception I have heard of are some of the Charismatic groups that have women preachers, or at least that is what I was told a few times on FR, usually on a thread about ex-Catholic wannabe priestesses.

Freegards


17 posted on 09/25/2013 10:25:43 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: livius

I would say it is the duty yes duty,of Cdl.Cordileone and of Cdl. Wuerl of the Washington Diocese to see that it is carried out.


18 posted on 09/25/2013 11:42:09 AM PDT by Venturer ( cowardice posturing as tolerance =political correctness)
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To: shego
subversive...? "daisy cutters of truth and [ahem] social justice"...? aye-yi-yi.


19 posted on 09/25/2013 1:04:10 PM PDT by BlueDragon (.)
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To: livius

“Two” dissidents laicized and excommunicated? I’d just heard of the one in Melbourne, “Mister” Greg Reynolds. Do you have (O be still my beating heart) a link for the other one?


20 posted on 09/25/2013 2:28:29 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (What unites us all, of any race, gender, or religion, is that we all believe we are above average.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I’ll have to look for it. I think the other one was actually somewhere in Latin America, but I don’t remember the details. I think it was the same thing - the process had gotten started earlier, but was hung up by lack of action on the part of the local bishop (obviously, a covert supporter of the dissident priest in question). The Vatican simply resolved it without the bishop’s participation.


21 posted on 09/25/2013 2:39:23 PM PDT by livius
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To: shego

I am not Catholic, nor do I play one on TV, but I have always been told by Catholic friends that God selects the Pope through the Cardinals and that the Pope speaks the Truth, so I would expect that a true Catholic would not question anything said by the Pope.


22 posted on 09/26/2013 4:25:05 AM PDT by sakic
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To: BlueDragon
subversive...? "daisy cutters of truth and [ahem] social justice"...? aye-yi-yi.

As I noted above, you're missing the meaning of this term as it is meant in context:

Pope Francis puts a high priority on "social justice" -- not in the Marxist eat-the-rich distortion of that concept, but in the traditional framework of restraining the tendency of the wealthy and powerful to game the system and cheat everybody else out of that portion of the economy's wealth they have legitimately earned.

23 posted on 09/26/2013 7:23:27 AM PDT by shego
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To: shego
I'm missing the meaning of the term?

My comment was aimed primarily at Kathleen Parker's comments, not elsewhere...
Spare me the mind reading exercise. You just swung wide and missed, noOB. [since 2013-08-07]

Just stick with the "this is what he really meant to say" sweeping up after, if so disposed --- without the "mind reading", and leave it at that.

24 posted on 09/26/2013 7:49:12 AM PDT by BlueDragon (.)
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