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Has the Pope Taken His First Steps into Last Days Apostasy?
American Prophet ^ | September 24, 2013 | Rev. Michael Bresciani

Posted on 09/25/2013 8:27:57 PM PDT by WXRGina

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To: jodyel; Religion Moderator
Dear jodyel,

If you were merely speaking in generalities, and at least implicitly admitting of possible exceptions, you might have a point.

But in your post to me, you say, “And none of you...”

The literal meaning, then, of your post is the same as “every single one of you.”

Which means, “including you, sitetest.”

And that makes it personal.

I don’t necessarily agree with the rules of the Religion Forum. Frankly, I think they’re inherently anti-Catholic. But I’ve said what I think bluntly to the Religion Moderator on a few occasions, and I try not to beat too many dead horses simultaneously in life.

Nonetheless, the rules are the rules. I see ‘em enforced against Catholics, might as well make sure they get enforced against non-Catholics.


sitetest

151 posted on 09/26/2013 11:40:09 AM PDT by sitetest ( If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Syncro

We were not discussing the idea of a pope but rather the foundation of the Catholic Church.

The term *Roman Catholicism* is actually an incorrect terminology. Catholicism is correct.

catholic simply means “universal” Yes.

Are you familiar with the writings of St. Pacian of Barcelona, (A.D. c.310-375)?


152 posted on 09/26/2013 11:44:12 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: Religion Moderator
We are overdue for a Religion Forum zot thread...

Given that statement above, it is obvious to you, as it is to me, that the title of this thread is a red flag that will invite warring between factions. As such, I believe it violates the original standards of the religion forum and should be changed or the thread removed. Just my humble opinion, RM, with acknowledgment that you have been a fair and reasonable presence on the RF for many years.

153 posted on 09/26/2013 12:09:47 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Campion
The obvious conclusion is that the scriptures were describing the universal church, ie all Christians.

To capitalize on the capitalization of Catholic to infer that all Christians were “Catholics” back them is erroneous.

It wasn't until about 3 centuries later that Catholicism was actually put into existence, and then the retroactive designating of “Popes” starting with Peter.

No mention of “Popes” in the Bible.

Bishops, yes many times.

And as on poster stated, rapture isn't in the Bible so we apparently can't say it is Biblical. Must be the same for pope.

154 posted on 09/26/2013 12:14:36 PM PDT by Syncro ("So?" - -Andrew Breitbart --The King of All Media RIP Feb 1, 1969 – Mar 1, 2012)
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To: SumProVita

I was just answering your question, and the fact that there were no popes in 1st century Christianity was a relevant part of the answer.

Picking the nit a bit, no problem but many refer to themselves as Roman Catholics.

You did notice it was in quotes from where I quoted it, right?

Would have been more correct, you are right, if it simply said Catholicism.

I have not read everything written about Catholicism, it takes away from Bible reading too much.

Heck, I have seen posters post up to about 20-30 links to Catholic writings on threads as an “answer” to a question.

Heck, it would take dozens of hours to read all the links!


155 posted on 09/26/2013 12:34:27 PM PDT by Syncro ("So?" - -Andrew Breitbart --The King of All Media RIP Feb 1, 1969 – Mar 1, 2012)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Very good Alamo-Girl, thanks.

That is a great site, I will bookmark it for later now that I have read about the word catholic.

And thanks also for your various posts on this thread, very clarifying and scriptural.


156 posted on 09/26/2013 12:39:28 PM PDT by Syncro ("So?" - -Andrew Breitbart --The King of All Media RIP Feb 1, 1969 – Mar 1, 2012)
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To: jodyel

Your are so wrong to it’s really pathetic to disgrace a women to say what happen to them. You are not God!!!!! Period. Totally Outrageous!!! I have never seen any put statements like you have about another human being on thses threads before. Who would even write these statements no matter what side. Just astounding.


157 posted on 09/26/2013 3:14:24 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: SumProVita
Are you aware that you misused the scripture you posted? ...

Jesus taught that we would know those who are His by their good fruits, those of the Holy Spirit. “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits.” (Matthew 7:15)

Clearly, Jesus instructed that we would know FALSE PROPHETS by their fruits. When you seek to instruct someone --and especially a fellow Christian-- on spiritual matters, using the scriptures, it would be well to use the passages correctly and more precisely than you have done.

158 posted on 09/26/2013 3:34:57 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: xzins
Given that statement above, it is obvious to you, as it is to me, that the title of this thread is a red flag that will invite warring between factions. As such, I believe it violates the original standards of the religion forum and should be changed or the thread removed. Just my humble opinion, RM, with acknowledgment that you have been a fair and reasonable presence on the RF for many years.

How does the title of this thread violate any standards of the religion forum? The title is a question, and the author presents a compelling case in answer to it. And, almost 160 comments later, most everyone remains civil enough. Why would you want to delete this thread along with everyone's comments that they took time and effort to compose? Is it just because you don't like the column?

159 posted on 09/26/2013 3:42:47 PM PDT by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: WXRGina; Religion Moderator

I’ve been here longer than you. It’s flame bait. I remember the discussion of rules and standards. One was that flame bait on the religion forum is different than on the regular forum.

We have a wise mod who will make a wise decision.


160 posted on 09/26/2013 5:29:08 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: WXRGina

Thanks for the ping. Great article!


161 posted on 09/26/2013 5:35:27 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Religion Moderator

Uh-oh. Is it time to suit up and get my sway-back Rusty out of his stall? I’m feeling the audience getting antsy here...


162 posted on 09/26/2013 5:39:45 PM PDT by smvoice (The 2 greatest days of your life: the day you're born. And the day you discover why.)
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To: xzins; Religion Moderator

Yes, the Religion Moderator is a very patient, even-handed person. And, although you’ve been here longer than me, I am still able to read the religion forum guidelines just as anyone else can.

Nevertheless, there is no real reason to avoid legitimate, respectful critiques of catholic doctrine simply because some catholics become enraged by them. Instead of becoming enraged (flaming) and accusing anyone of “bashing” who dares to politely question their beliefs, perhaps they could take a hard, honest look at what they’ve been taught and compare it to the Word of God. While I understand that people have perverted the meaning of Scripture for their own purposes, it still remains that many, many catholics have honestly examined the Bible in light of their catholic beliefs and have turned away from catholicism.


163 posted on 09/26/2013 5:57:45 PM PDT by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: CynicalBear

You’re welcome! :-)


164 posted on 09/26/2013 5:59:11 PM PDT by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: WXRGina

Only of Catholic doctrine?

Why don’t you put up a thread about something with your own church?


165 posted on 09/26/2013 5:59:39 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: WXRGina; Religion Moderator

Are Baptists actually the minions the AntiChrist will use to rule the world?


166 posted on 09/26/2013 6:02:27 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

What a joke.

I am so tired of the protestant bashing


167 posted on 09/26/2013 6:04:48 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: Salvation

I don’t have a church. I’m simply a Bible-believing Christian, just a part of the body of Christ.

There’s really no need for you to be defensive (or offensive, whichever the case may be). My presenting counterpoints to catholicism is in no way a threat to you.


168 posted on 09/26/2013 6:06:44 PM PDT by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: xzins; Religion Moderator

What’s your point? I must be missing it.


169 posted on 09/26/2013 6:07:17 PM PDT by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: GeronL; Religion Moderator

It was a joke....at least hyperbole...to make a point. If you’d followed my comments, you’d understand I was attempting a parallel title to the title of this thread.

It obviously roiled your blood, so I must be on to something.


170 posted on 09/26/2013 6:07:46 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: WXRGina

see 167 and 170


171 posted on 09/26/2013 6:08:40 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins; WXRGina

Oh those Baptists are always up to no good. I’ve heard that ever since they stormed the southern borders we have had nothing but trouble, TROUBLE, from them. It’s all those covered dish dinners on the grounds they foist on the unsuspecting. And those green bean casseroles? Forget about it. It’s a plot to overthrow the cream corn growers. Seems they’re *tired* of picking cream corn. I think they’re just lazy and don’t want to get their creamy whites dirty. They’d rather let the government subsidize their lifestyles. Pray to Saint Dunk’em that he will intercede and drive these miscreants from the land. We can get back to the REAL business of wafer production.


172 posted on 09/26/2013 6:11:49 PM PDT by smvoice (The 2 greatest days of your life: the day you're born. And the day you discover why.)
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To: xzins

Oh, I see. Kind of an off parallel, but I get it.


173 posted on 09/26/2013 6:14:14 PM PDT by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: smvoice

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Thank you for the much-needed levity! :-)


174 posted on 09/26/2013 6:15:32 PM PDT by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: Salvation; Brian Kopp DPM; Alamo-Girl; smvoice
>> If you are wondering where the English term originates from, it is an Old English word that was used in literature (including some Charles Dickens novels) that refers to being carried away.<<

Old English ey? Let’s see where it really comes from.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

harpagēsometha ἁρπαγησόμεθα will be caught away [http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_thessalonians/4-17.htm]

The root word is harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away [http://biblesuite.com/strongs/greek/726.htm]

Guise what the Catholics translated that word in Latin to?

The Latin Vulgate translates the Greek ἁρπαγησόμεθα as rapiemur,[16] from the verb rapio meaning "to catch up" or "take away".

1 Thessalonians 4:17. deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus (Latin Vulgate).

Thus from “rapiemur” we get the English word rapture.

So it’s actually the RCC that gave us the word rapture. Isn't that interesting?

Often it’s better to study before posting.

175 posted on 09/26/2013 6:17:56 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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Comment #176 Removed by Moderator

Comment #177 Removed by Moderator

Comment #178 Removed by Moderator

To: GeronL

Well, I didn’t want to say that (trying to be nice here), but his fake “headline” had no relation to this headline (where was anti-Christ mentioned?).


179 posted on 09/26/2013 6:28:37 PM PDT by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: jodyel
Amen, Amen and Amen! God never once subjected true, faithful believers to His wrath. Those who think true, faithful believers will experience the wrath of God during the tribulation are denying His word.
180 posted on 09/26/2013 6:30:35 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear

GREAT JOB! Keeping them on their toes. Keeping it HONEST.


181 posted on 09/26/2013 6:32:28 PM PDT by smvoice (The 2 greatest days of your life: the day you're born. And the day you discover why.)
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To: ravenwolf
>> Is Rev 17 so plain to Protestants as well as Catholics that no one wants to go there?<<

I’ve “gone there” often. The Protestant denominations are indeed the daughters and have retained many of the RCC errors.

182 posted on 09/26/2013 6:33:33 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: A Formerly Proud Canadian; jodyel
>>If so, how can anyone be saved? With no indwelling of the Holy Spirit to lead, how can any be saved?<<

Neither was there an “indwelling” of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament when the Jews were the focus as they will be during the tribulation. The two witnesses will preach but those who are saved during the tribulation will not have the protection or the comfort of the Holy Spirit.

183 posted on 09/26/2013 6:36:42 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: WXRGina

bump


184 posted on 09/26/2013 6:37:57 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: smvoice; A Formerly Proud Canadian; jodyel
>>The Holy Spirit is never removed from this earth. He is ministering to the tribulation saints.<<

I believe He is the “restrainer” indwelling the true believers and will be removed at the rapture.

185 posted on 09/26/2013 6:38:51 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear

I’ve “gone there” often. The Protestant denominations are indeed the daughters and have retained many of the RCC errors.


Sure the way it looks.


186 posted on 09/26/2013 6:49:12 PM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: smvoice

Hey, don’t be knockin my cream corn or my green bean salad.


187 posted on 09/26/2013 6:50:46 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: jodyel; sitetest
The universal "you" is often mistaken as a personal "you" by the reader and incites flame wars, even if the original poster did not intend to provoke contempt.

IOW, it can have the same affect depending on how the reader reacts.

To avoid flame wars, look for an alternative to the universal "you."

188 posted on 09/26/2013 7:00:43 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: GeronL

I can see I really riled you up.

Much older than 5, but I heard someone say that we advancing years you should start counting backwards at some point.

It always seems to be “whose ox is getting gored.”


189 posted on 09/26/2013 7:02:16 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: sitetest

Sitetest,

What are Catholics going to do when persecution out in the real world starts here?

There will not be a religious moderator out there for anyone to ping and say Stop burning us at the stake...that is personal, stop flaying us alive...that is personal....stop beheading us...that is way too personal.

Don’t any of you have eyes to see that I am not the enemy...that the one who deserves your fury is not me but the one who has kept good Catholics in spiritual bondage thru his abomination called the Catholic church?

If all Catholics have known all their lives is to be good and loving and kind, then my words will drive a knife right into their hearts. How many of you will run away and scream and die to anything else I have to say? Quite a lot if my PMs are any indication.

If this exchange on this forum upsets Catholics, then how in the world will all of you ever survive when they come for you outside this box? One of your good Catholics called me a sadomasochist in a PM...what is going to happen to that good Catholic if a real sadomasochist, such as the ones in the Kenyan massacre, get a hold of her? That time is coming and who among you is going to be girded with TRUE faith unto death.

I daresay that your “goodness” faith of light, love, and lollipops will die an even swifter death than Catholics will at the first hint of real bloodshed. So while you guys are all patting yourselves on the back for being good little Catholics and how dare the mean lady say you are not, know this....days are short, Satan is prowling and ready to devour any and all in his path, and it is time to wake up, trust in Christ and nothing else, and be prepared to die.


190 posted on 09/26/2013 7:08:04 PM PDT by jodyel
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To: xzins; WXRGina; GeronL; smvoice
Contentiousness should be expected on "open" Religion Forum threads.

Unless the article title or content serves no theological debate purpose at all, it will not be removed on the basis that some Freepers are offended by it. Mainstream media articles can have inflammatory titles - the same is true for some historical writings, prophecies, sermons etc.

The "open" RF debate format is the only outlet to discuss such things whether pro or con.

191 posted on 09/26/2013 7:08:10 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: CynicalBear

How, oh HOW, can you possibly beat a nice corn casserole with lots of cheese and a little sugar in it? You just can’t.


192 posted on 09/26/2013 7:11:57 PM PDT by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: Religion Moderator

That wasn’t the original discussion years ago. It was an acknowledgment that we would avoid flame bait in titles.

I’m certain my memory is correct on this.

But, as always, I accept your wisdom and integrity.


193 posted on 09/26/2013 7:12:47 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: A Formerly Proud Canadian
There are many others, but I submit that a Pope, being mortal, fleshly, is prone to the same sins as any other man. How many times did Jesus rebuke the Pharisees as hypocrites when they did one thing, yet instructed others not to do what they did? How then, can such Popes be 'infallible' in matters of 'morals'?

you misunderstand when the pope is infallible....he is just a regular man in his personal life and just as much a sinner as we all are....However, when it comes to proclamations, official statements, Ex Cathedra, he cannot make a mistake in matters of Faith and Morals. He cannot, for example declare that the church no longer opposes abortion....can't and won't.

194 posted on 09/26/2013 7:18:21 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: WXRGina
>> How, oh HOW, can you possibly beat a nice corn casserole with lots of cheese and a little sugar in it? You just can’t.<<

That’s a fact! Made my mouth water just reading that.

195 posted on 09/26/2013 7:21:23 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: jodyel
good thing true believers are here to set you straight so you don’t end up playing with it for eternity.

WOW, how lucky can we get!!!!!, after 2,000 years of stumbling anong, along comes the prottys to save us from ourselves.....whew, that takes a load off my mind!!

196 posted on 09/26/2013 7:23:01 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: xzins
Thank you for your support!

And, yes, on a vanity RF thread, an antagonistic title is a flame war fixing to happen and would probably be pulled. However, the title here matches the linked article.

But members in every niche of the theological debate world must contend with naysayers, e.g. atheists and agnostics. And the "open" RF threads are the best venue for doing just that.

197 posted on 09/26/2013 7:23:38 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: UCANSEE2

Why would you use the New York Times’s version of the papal interview instead of the original source? Do you at all believe the NYT would report his statement accurately? You’re a FReeper? Trusting the NYT? Honestly?


198 posted on 09/26/2013 7:27:40 PM PDT by EDINVA
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To: SumProVita

Because what you are espousing is not TRUE faith.

I am not called to get along with Catholics or work with them....I am called to witness to them and tell them to come out of a dead faith. I am not called to have inter-religious dialogue with people of other faiths or dialogue with anyone at all. I am called to proclaim Christ crucified and lead them to a saving faith in Him and Him alone. That is my duty as a believer in Jesus.

Do your own research on Catholicism and Islam and see if what is happening is not exactly as shown in the article I referenced. Catholics want all people to get along and want to bring peace to the world under the love of a false Christ. You cannot get along with Islam....you either become Muslim or you die....period. How do you think Muslims hear the true Gospel? With death to the Christian is how. Catholics may not kill us but they wail and gnash their teeth and call us names like sadomasochists and shut their ears to the true Gospel.

I know that all Catholics believe they are born again and Spirit filled and that nothing I say will disabuse them of that. But the Spirit of God knows we speak His truth and when He chooses to reveal Himself to any one of you....just as we have said He will...you will then know too.

As I said previously, Sum, I am not the enemy and if Catholics cannot take the truth here and crumble like a stack of dominoes, how will they ever face the real enemy who is coming after them outside of this box and in this world? The only way is to ask Jesus to live in their hearts and fill them with His Spirit. And leave this dead church that knows nothing of Him.

Paul is a fine example of preaching Christ and Christ only and we would all do well to follow his example. I care that not any of you perish but will all know the true Jesus and not the one of the Catholic church. May God open your eyes to Him.

God bless you,
jodyel


199 posted on 09/26/2013 7:45:11 PM PDT by jodyel
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To: Syncro
The scriptures come from God, not "Catholics." Christians thank God, Catholics thank Catholics. Believe in what you wish, but attempting to change Christians from following God to following a "Pope" (or your misrepresentations lol) is folly.

of course the scriptures come from God....but He used the Catholics to write them....the Apostles were the early Catholic bishops, Paul and others were also early Catholics. God also used the Catholic church to edit, protect, copy, transcribe....whatever needed, the scripture writings. Through the ages the bible was copied, by hand, in Catholic Monastaries throughout the world. It is because of their efforts in this area that we have the bible today....without the work of God THROUGH the Catholic church, you wouldn't even know what a bible was.....they wrote it, they copied it and they saved it for posterity, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

200 posted on 09/26/2013 7:46:09 PM PDT by terycarl
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