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Pope Francis: Sacrament of the Eucharist is not a 'magic rite'
cna ^ | September 24, 2013 | Elise Harris

Posted on 09/26/2013 11:52:46 AM PDT by NYer

Pope Francis rides through St. Peter's Square after Mass on April 28, 2013. Credit: Stephen Driscoll/CNA.
Pope Francis rides through St. Peter's Square after Mass on April 28, 2013. Credit: Stephen Driscoll/CNA.

Vatican City, Sep 24, 2013 / 08:13 am (CNA/EWTN News).- During his daily homily, Pope Francis gave special emphasis to the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist, saying that it is not magical act, but an encounter with the living God.

Pope Francis delivered his Sept. 24 homily to those who gathered in the Vatican’s guest house, Santa Marta, for a private liturgy.

The Holy Father drew his reflections from the morning’s reading from the passage in psalms, “We will go with joy to the House of the Lord,” saying to those gathered that the Sacrament of the Eucharist is not a “magic rite,” but rather an encounter with Jesus, who is our constant companion in life.

Throughout the history of God’s people, the Pope said, there have been many “beautiful moments which bring joy,” but also moments “of pain, martyrdom and sin.”

However, the Pope noted that “God, who has no History because He is eternal, desired to make History by walking alongside His people.”

“He decided to become one of us, and as one of us, to walk with us through Jesus.”

Pope Francis stressed that this act not only shows us the greatness of God, but also his humility, saying that when his people strayed from him “in sin and idolatry,” he did not abandon them, but “He was there” waiting for their return.

Jesus shows us the same humility, said the Pope, in that “he walks with the People of God, walks with the sinners; walks also with the arrogant,” adding that Jesus did much to “help these arrogant hearts of the Pharisees.”

The Church, stressed the pontiff, can rejoice in the humility of God which accompanies us as “We go with joy to the House of the Lord.”

“We go with joy because He accompanies us, He is with us…and the Lord Jesus, even in our personal lives, accompanies us with the Sacraments. The Sacrament is not a magic rite: it is an encounter with Jesus Christ; we encounter the Lord – it is He w


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Worship
KEYWORDS: hocuspocus

1 posted on 09/26/2013 11:52:46 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...
I have begun to collect some of the pope's analogies (below). If you recall some of the earlier ones, let me know.

Pope Francis "isms"

To newly appointed bishops: "Don't be airport bishops" (bishops who spend too much time away from their dioceses)
To pastors: The Confessional is not a 'torture chamber'
The Sacrament of the Eucharist is not a 'magic rite'

2 posted on 09/26/2013 11:54:25 AM PDT by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: NYer

He’s absolutely right! People have to remember this every time they go to Communion.

I don’t think a lot of them do, because they’re poorly instructed, alas. Maybe the Pope should take advantage of this moment to try to encourage better catechesis.


3 posted on 09/26/2013 11:55:23 AM PDT by livius
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To: NYer
What is not God at anytime in the past cannot "become" God any time in the future - ever. Per the indelible attribute of God's essence. He is separate from his creation.

If the Eucharist really IS God, then it would have to have ALWAYS been God. Pretty easy theology.

4 posted on 09/26/2013 12:17:46 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: fwdude

Was Jesus the Incarnation of God made Flesh, or not?

If you believe that He was true God and true Man, then your statement is false.

If you don’t believe that, then you are not considered in the bounds of what is normally considered Christian.


5 posted on 09/26/2013 12:46:51 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: fwdude
If the Eucharist really IS God, then it would have to have ALWAYS been God. Pretty easy theology.

Jesus did not always exist as fully human. Are you saying that Jesus is not God?

6 posted on 09/26/2013 12:46:57 PM PDT by frogjerk (We are conservatives. Not libertarians, not "fiscal conservatives", not moderates)
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To: livius

yes.


7 posted on 09/26/2013 1:29:59 PM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: NYer

If it looks like a dragon, walks like a dragon, talks like a dragon....


8 posted on 09/26/2013 1:58:53 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1

Feed it some crickets.


9 posted on 09/26/2013 2:06:52 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Prioritize!)
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To: livius

I agree, Livius, that most have been poorly instructed, but past a certain point, they have a responsibility to seek the truth. I submit this begins after they learn to read.


10 posted on 09/26/2013 2:26:33 PM PDT by pbear8 (the Lord is my light and my salvation)
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To: pbear8

The problem is that most of them aren’t even aware that they don’t know the truth. I give tours at my cathedral, and I meet Catholics and other Christians from all over the country. They’re always well meaning, but they are completely, utterly ignorant. They can’t identify the statues of a single saint (even St. Patrick!), they don’t know what the Blessed Sacrament is, they aren’t sure what a bishop is or why the church is called a cathedral. Most of them no longer go to mass regularly and some of them attend Protestant churches occasionally. But they are so grateful when I tell them a few things.

I think the important thing is going out and using our tremendous Catholic treasury to impress and intrigue these people, whether people who think they’re Catholic but know nothing, people who believe they’ve left, or just curious people of good will. They’re not going to go seek things out unless somebody gets them interested in the first place, and maybe that’s what Francis is trying to do.


11 posted on 09/26/2013 2:36:01 PM PDT by livius
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To: livius
I don’t think a lot of them do, because they’re poorly instructed, alas. Maybe the Pope should take advantage of this moment to try to encourage better catechesis.

I doubt that those Catholics are poorly instructed...Your Eucharist is after all, the mainstay of your religion...They know what they are taught, they just don't believe it...

If you tell me you are going to change an orange into a bicycle and it still looks, feels and tastes like an orange after you changed it, you'll never convince me a change took place...

And I'll bet a vast majority of Catholics who claim the bread turns into flesh don't believe it either...

And to go further, I would be surprised if there are any priests who actually believe it...

12 posted on 09/26/2013 2:42:48 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool
"If you tell me you are going to change an orange into a bicycle and it still looks, feels and tastes like an orange after you changed it, you'll never convince me a change took place...   And I'll bet a vast majority of Catholics who claim the bread turns into flesh don't believe it either...   And to go further, I would be surprised if there are any priests who actually believe it... "

There are also a lot of people over the centuries and today who have not believed and do not believe that God gave Himself a human nature as Jesus.    They say that if He looked like a mere human being, sounded like a mere human being, and to all human senses, appeared to be just a mere human being, then of course He had to have only been a mere human being.

They were (and are) wrong.

13 posted on 09/26/2013 3:15:09 PM PDT by Heart-Rest (Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Gal 6:7)
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To: livius; pbear8
The problem is that most of them aren’t even aware that they don’t know the truth. I give tours at my cathedral, and I meet Catholics and other Christians from all over the country. They’re always well meaning, but they are completely, utterly ignorant. They can’t identify the statues of a single saint (even St. Patrick!), they don’t know what the Blessed Sacrament is, they aren’t sure what a bishop is or why the church is called a cathedral. Most of them no longer go to mass regularly and some of them attend Protestant churches occasionally. But they are so grateful when I tell them a few things.

Same experience at my parish. Our situation is slightly different in that we are an Eastern Catholic Church. 2 weeks ago, I conducted a tour of the church with a large group of active, pro-life, Roman Catholics. I always begin by identifying myself as a Roman Catholic who practices the faith in an Eastern Catholic Church. This puts them at ease. The initial series of questions usually results in interesting reactions:

1. What religion was Jesus? This group had the correct response but I recall asking that of a Knight at a K of C function and he responded, "Catholic".

2. What language did Jesus, His mother and the Apostles speak? Many blank stares. Apparently, they had never considered this question. [Aramaic]

3. Did Jesus ever go to Rome? All blank stares. [No. He no doubt spoke and understood Latin because it was the language of the invaders but He never went to Rome.] Jesus was born, lived, died and resurrected in the Middle East.

I think the important thing is going out and using our tremendous Catholic treasury to impress and intrigue these people, whether people who think they’re Catholic but know nothing, people who believe they’ve left, or just curious people of good will. They’re not going to go seek things out unless somebody gets them interested in the first place, and maybe that’s what Francis is trying to do.

You are absolutely right! The Q & A sessions are an opportunity to address unaddressed questions and clarify misunderstandings. The big surprise for ALL RC visitors is learning that the Catholic Church is comprised of 22 churches, 21 of which are Eastern. Most of them have never heard this before and it is quite the challenge to reassure them that ... YES ... they are all CATHOLIC ... in FULL COMMUNION with the See of Peter. Walk through the front doors of the church and you are greeted by a large photograph of Pope Francis and the papal flag. Those images scream "Catholic" and RC visitors, who should immediately recognize these universal images, are still confused.

Perhaps on the tours of your cathedral, you could pass along this information, thus becoming one more voice in communicating the fact that the Catholic Church breathes with two lungs. Kudos on your work!

14 posted on 09/26/2013 3:37:38 PM PDT by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: NYer

Thank you! I am actually Eastern Rite (Russian Usage) too, although there isn’t an Eastern Rite church of any kind near here so I haven’t been to a Byzantine liturgy for years now.

I’ve noticed in recent years that most dioceses in the South have instituted religious education programs, but the problem is that they’re not very interesting and actually not basic enough. They get a little vague and they’re too warm and fuzzy, so men don’t go to them and really the only people who go are older ladies who aren’t going to learn much of anything new.

We did have a good response to Fr. Robert Barron’s “Catholicism” series, although unfortunately the person who was the moderator, I guess you’d call her, is not very knowledgeable herself and I think she did more harm than good.

I wish the priests would go back to doing religious education. Some of them are not extremely orthodox, unfortunately, and others aren’t as well educated as they should be, but they’d still be better than most of the other people and I think it would be good for people to meet them and have some sort of contact with them outside of Mass.


15 posted on 09/26/2013 4:25:41 PM PDT by livius
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To: roamer_1
At the Last Supper, Jesus said, "Do this in remembrance of me."



16 posted on 09/26/2013 5:04:49 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
At the Last Supper, Jesus said, "Do this in remembrance of me."

Since that phrase is so popular with you guys can I assume that your priests say that as they pass out the wafer???

17 posted on 09/26/2013 7:06:50 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Heart-Rest
There are also a lot of people over the centuries and today who have not believed and do not believe that God gave Himself a human nature as Jesus. They say that if He looked like a mere human being, sounded like a mere human being, and to all human senses, appeared to be just a mere human being, then of course He had to have only been a mere human being.

There's a huge difference...When Jesus healed the blind guy, the blind guy could actually see afterward...

And when a lame person was told to get up and walk, he didn't crawl away while Jesus told the crowd, 'look, he's healed'...He actually walked...And everyone saw it...

There's nothing, nada, zilch, zero evidence or hint in the scriptures where Jesus said he is going to turn bread into his flesh, nor is there any hint that he did...And that's because he didn't...

If Jesus would have turned bread into flesh, it would have been flesh, not bread...

18 posted on 09/26/2013 7:13:35 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool

They say it as part of the Consecration. I would encourage you to attend a Catholic Mass. You won’t melt.


19 posted on 09/26/2013 7:16:15 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
At the Last Supper, Jesus said, "Do this in remembrance of me."

Then it would look more like a seder and less like an invocation of sol invictus. :)

20 posted on 09/26/2013 7:42:38 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1

The Mass is a memorial of the Last Supper. You do believe the words of Jesus, don’t you?


21 posted on 09/26/2013 7:45:49 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
You do believe the words of Jesus, don’t you?

Sure! It's the words of the Roman church that I have problems with.

22 posted on 09/26/2013 7:52:32 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: Iscool
"There's a huge difference...When Jesus healed the blind guy, the blind guy could actually see afterward... And when a lame person was told to get up and walk, he didn't crawl away while Jesus told the crowd, 'look, he's healed'...He actually walked...And everyone saw it..."

You're completely missing the point again.    Even after they saw those things, most of the people alive in those times still did not believe Jesus was God, just like you don't believe Jesus when He said, "This is my body."

The point is, to their very limited human senses, He looked like a mere human being, not like God, and most of His contemporaries of those days did not believe He was God, just like you do not believe the ongoing miracle of the Holy Eucharist, even though Jesus solemnly declared and promised that it was so, and St. Paul confirmed that later.

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"There's nothing, nada, zilch, zero evidence or hint in the scriptures where Jesus said he is going to turn bread into his flesh, nor is there any hint that he did...And that's because he didn't...",

Right, and the word "love" is not in there either. /s

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" If Jesus would have turned bread into flesh, it would have been flesh, not bread...

This is a restriction that you, "Iscool", are trying to put on God, not a real restriction on God.    The truth is, God does not have those restrictions, as Iscool simply does not have the power to put ANY restrictions on God, and Iscool will never have the power to put any restrictions on God, no matter how many times Iscool tries.

As a quick Biblical example of God making one thing appear as something entirely different to a person using only their limited human senses, read about the blind man, who after phase one of the healing process Jesus performed for him, saw what looked to him like walking trees, but were actually people.    After phase two of Jesus healing him, Jesus enabled him to see the people clearly, as they actually appeared to most other humans.    Jesus has the power to make humans see whatever Jesus wants them to see, in order to serve some purpose, such as, in the case of the Holy Eucharist, exercising their faith in order to strengthen it.

Here is that reference about the blind man:

And He took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the village; and when He had spit on his eyes and laid His hands upon him, He asked him, “Do you see anything?”    And he looked up and said, “I see men; but they look like trees, walking.”    Then again He laid his hands upon his eyes; and he looked intently and was restored, and saw everything clearly.    Mark 8:23-25

23 posted on 09/26/2013 8:35:14 PM PDT by Heart-Rest (Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Gal 6:7)
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To: Heart-Rest
Jesus has the power to make humans see whatever Jesus wants them to see, in order to serve some purpose, such as, in the case of the Holy Eucharist, exercising their faith in order to strengthen it.

That's where the proof of your proof text falls apart...

Your religion is very specific when it makes the claim that the bread and wine have the exact same characteristics before and after...

Jesus doesn't make any of you see flesh and blood...You see bread and wine...

just like you don't believe Jesus when He said, "This is my body."

I certainly do believe Jesus said that...Just as I believe he said, no one will hunger again after they come to him...I also believe both of those statements were spiritual, not physical...

24 posted on 09/27/2013 2:41:57 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: livius

We shouldn’t wonder why so many recent graduates of Billy’s Barefoot Bible College are on Catholic threads hammering away at every statement of from Pope Francis. They know most of us are not properly trained to argue or defend our Catholic faith. We are the “low-hanging fruit” that the newly minted “missionaries” cut their teeth on.


25 posted on 09/27/2013 4:16:58 AM PDT by Oratam
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: livius
Ok, I am Lutheran, and I can identify St. Patrick nine times out of ten (there was one pretty odd statue in a church back home that I suspect was “re-purposed” at some point).

But then as I have traveled, I suspect the religious education in Nebraska was better than most places no matter what demonimation you attend.

27 posted on 09/27/2013 5:39:23 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Iscool
When did the belief that the the Real Presence was NOT true begin?

Not talking transubstitution, which has a hard date when it was explicitly defined, but the real presence of Body and Blood of Jesus in Communion.

Christians from the earliest days believed that communion had the Real Presence of the Body and Blood in the bread and wine.

28 posted on 09/27/2013 5:42:52 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Iscool
"I certainly do believe Jesus said that...Just as I believe he said, no one will hunger again after they come to him...I also believe both of those statements were spiritual, not physical..."

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Do you believe that, for OUR sake, God often makes use of physical things in order to effect a spiritual benefit?

For example, are the waters of baptism real, physical water (not invisible, undetectable "spiritual water"), and do the waters of baptism appear to all human senses exactly as any other water one might swim in, or take a bath in?    Does God use that ordinary water to perform an extraordinary spiritual transformation in a person, even though the water appears to be just ordinary physical water to our limited physical human senses the entire time -- before, during, and after the baptism?

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.    John 3:5
Likewise, does God desire to make use of our ordinary, physical human bodies to fulfill the magnificently extraordinary spiritual function of being a "temple of the Holy Spirit"?
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God?    You are not your own; you were bought with a price.    So glorify God in your body.    1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Of course all these actions involve both the physical dimension and the spiritual dimension, and that spiritual dimension CANNOT be seen with our physical eyes, but must be perceived with our "eyes of faith".    This is what God desires (for our limited human sakes), whether one understands and believes it or not.    That is why God set up the celebration of the Holy Eucharist in the way that He did -- for our limited, human sakes.

Thank God for such a beautiful gift.

29 posted on 09/27/2013 6:20:16 AM PDT by Heart-Rest (Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Gal 6:7)
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To: redgolum

Depending on what you mean by Real Presence, I think many conservative protestant churches believe that now. If you mean the real presence of blood and human tissue, not so much but the Real Presence of a risen and victorious Lord then yes.


30 posted on 09/27/2013 7:28:42 AM PDT by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: dangerdoc
I mean that Jesus’s Body and Blood is present in the articles of Communion.

The how is not important, but He is there.

31 posted on 09/27/2013 7:37:06 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: fwdude
What is not God at anytime in the past cannot "become" God any time in the future - ever. Per the indelible attribute of God's essence. He is separate from his creation.

That's fundamentally incompatible with Christianity on many different levels.

32 posted on 09/27/2013 7:54:16 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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